How can we keep the common law if we dont know?

[Dmode101]

Long time burning question. How can we expect to be good law abiding citizens if we dont have a copy of the law book in common langauge to understand?

Any lawyers or Judges out there to throw a bone here?

Because i sense chaos in every thread in this forum and on the streets....

makapaa and watchmen. pls take the lead since u both invested so much time here. surely this is a gem of a question. no?

 

[Dmode101]

Are we expected to learn the law through mass media like news paper in strange and uncategorised ways, no proper procedure at all?

surely with our long working hours due to us having to increase "productivity"
how can we expect to read mass media ALL the time.

 

[makapaaa]

No point talking about the rule of law when the pressing issue at hand is overthrowing the corrupt and wicked Familee rules!

 

[methink]

why talk about the rule of law when the powers that be do not even uphold the laws?

when they could interpret them according to pappy law?

 

[Dmode101]

Then you are wrong. if the rule of law is mass distributed, people are clear about their rights and hence more confident to stand up for themselves and protect the innocent.

Confusion only reins if yoou keep posting threads of political nature. It only end up making fourmers fear more as you can see the "authority news" are laced with subliminal threats coupled with open end possibilities.

Perhaps I would like to hear more about people here who have experience court cases themselves and tell us their stories of "ignorance based" fines.

 

[Ramseth]

It's the duty of Parliament to enact the laws. It's the duty of citizens to find out the laws. Parliament publishes gazettes. Don't read, blame who? Ignorance is no excuse at law. The law applies equally to everyone subject to it regardless of who knows or don't know. Singapore legal system is based on English common law. It connotes that some commonsense is required. For example, no statute is enacted in England that murder is illegal. It's commonsense (common law) that's illegal. Penalty for murder in England was also death by common law until in 1965-66 when it was statutorily enacted to abolish death penalty.

 

[Dmode101]

To add further. Without understanding of common law, or lack of, people will remain fearful due to the unknown. Even voting system logically could be cheated as common man are not informed of procedures and the boxes are not always in full view to prevent thief or misplacement. hence, it is not far fetch to enquire here as there seemed to be alot of well meaning people here with initiative (as well as sly people with other agenda).


makapaa I understand your objective. but to keep posting "other new source" too often brings no amount to your purpose. You need to discuss other vital areas - example the common law.

To me even if you overthrow them, what makes you think the system of law will change? change comes from understanding first our rights. To be active about finding our rights.

 

[Dmode101]

It's the duty of Parliament to enact the laws. It's the duty of citizens to find out the laws. Parliament publishes gazettes. Don't read, blame who? Ignorance is no excuse at law. The law applies equally to everyone subject to it regardless of who knows or don't know. Singapore legal system is based on English common law. It connotes that some commonsense is required. For example, no statute is enacted in England that murder is illegal. It's commonsense (common law) that's illegal. Penalty for murder in England was also death by common law until in 1965-66 when it was statutorily enacted to abolish death penalty.

Where are these gazettes and why are we not OFFICIALLY informed since its so important. If they can bother to send a letter of authority for NS service, why not this.

 

[Ramseth]

Where are these gazettes and why are we not OFFICIALLY informed since its so important. If they can bother to send a letter of authority for NS service, why not this.

www.parliament.gov.sg

www.agc.gov.sg

It's easier in this age of internet. However, even in days before internet, these are available from Parliament or National Library. All laws enacted are filed at National Library for public access. I was told that by teacher in Pr. Sch. How come you don't know? Blame your teacher?

 

[Dmode101]

It's the duty of Parliament to enact the laws. It's the duty of citizens to find out the laws. Parliament publishes gazettes. Don't read, blame who? Ignorance is no excuse at law. The law applies equally to everyone subject to it regardless of who knows or don't know. Singapore legal system is based on English common law. It connotes that some commonsense is required. For example, no statute is enacted in England that murder is illegal. It's commonsense (common law) that's illegal. Penalty for murder in England was also death by common law until in 1965-66 when it was statutorily enacted to abolish death penalty.

also isnt it against logic and oppressive to say that ignorance is no excuse when yourself said the law is published as in the "common sense" ongoing. so you mean time is not a factor to understand. You sound authoritative. At least I know which line you stand on.

btw, are we voters not entitled to be INFORMED? not the other way round of us having to take the INITIATIVE to find here and there websites? What is the public servants role but to serve? To sit here and bark at others, or to use the countries first class infrastructure and logistic s and send us in PRINT to all individuals the COMPLETE COMMON LAW book and UPDATES.

whereever we are. If they can take the trouble to use taxpayers money and send Army MPs to catch deserters why cant they use SPH or Mediacorp to send booklets?

 

[Dmode101]

www.parliament.gov.sg

www.agc.gov.sg

It's easier in this age of internet. However, even in days before internet, these are available from Parliament or National Library. All laws enacted are filed at National Library for public access. I was told that by teacher in Pr. Sch. How come you don't know? Blame your teacher?

Thanks for the info anyway. Seems that those who live in TOTAL ignorance are in real danger.

 

[Dmode101]

I thought of a great suggestion.

Next round of Phone book collection if there's anymore, put the common law book together. Since we are all used to thick books.

Library books are the lawyer language versions. Not common speak.

 

[Watchman]

why talk about the rule of law when the powers that be do not even uphold the laws?

when they could interpret them according to pappy law?

They let Mas Selamat go and help Romanian diplomat escape .

 

[Ramseth]

also isnt it against logic and oppressive to say that ignorance is no excuse when yourself said the law is published as in the "common sense" ongoing. so you mean time is not a factor to understand. You sound authoritative. At least I know which line you stand on.

btw, are we voters not entitled to be INFORMED? not the other way round of us having to take the INITIATIVE to find here and there websites? What is the public servants role but to serve? To sit here and bark at others, or to use the countries first class infrastructure and logistic s and send us in PRINT to all individuals the COMPLETE COMMON LAW book and UPDATES.

whereever we are. If they can take the trouble to use taxpayers money and send Army MPs to catch deserters why cant they use SPH or Mediacorp to send booklets?

Ignorance of law is no excuse is principle common to all countries, not just Singapore. Also, no country send their citizens whole bookshelves of statutes. Nobody could have read it or understand it completely by casual reading at home anyway. Visit any lawyer's office see the bookshelves for yourself; you'll see what I mean. It takes 4 years of study to become a lawyer, and no lawyer knows everything too. They still need reference at work. It takes 6 months in academy for a police recruit to learn about just a few statutes pre-requisite for law enforcement duties, e.g. Criminal Procedure Code, Penal Code, Miscellanceous Offences Act etc.

If you really want the statutes at home for your own reference, you can order them from SNP. Be prepared to buy a new good sized bookself too. National Library keeps a set for public reference. You can read it there, make photocopies of it there, but can't borrow the originals home.

 

[Dmode101]

Ignorance of law is no excuse is principle common to all countries, not just Singapore. Also, no country send their citizens whole bookshelves of statutes. Nobody could have read it or understand it completely by casual reading at home anyway. Visit any lawyer's office see the bookshelves for yourself; you'll see what I mean. It takes 4 years of study to become a lawyer, and no lawyer knows everything too. They still need reference at work. It takes 6 months in academy for a police recruit to learn about just a few statutes pre-requisite for law enforcement duties, e.g. Criminal Procedure Code, Penal Code, Miscellanceous Offences Act etc.

If you really want the statutes at home for your own reference, you can order them from SNP. Be prepared to buy a new good sized bookself too. National Library keeps a set for public reference. You can read it there, make photocopies of it there, but can't borrow the originals home.

Precisely - Ignorance is no excuse....but but but we need time to read so many....

Do you see the injustice? Hence the middle road is what I am saying a CONCISE common law that is most important laws for enough time to read so that if you happen to be standing infront of a FM judge and he says

"yo, ignorance is not bliss my son". I will reply, "sori FM judge, I havent got to that law article yet so how am i suppose to know its against the law."

go figure that Ramseth. Not trying to be smart but you know what I mean.

True power to the common man comes for understanding the common law for all.

 

[Ramseth]

No sane person (or government) will expect every one to know every law. The law enforcement (police and prosecution) and the judiciary (court) have leeways (no pun intended in the case of Singapore) to make discretionary decisions under credible mitigating circumstances. For example, and elderly auntie walked across an open field as a short cut home. A policeman saw her and stopped her, pointing out that it's against the law and there's a signboard there saying "State Land. Trespassers Will Be Prosecuted." The auntie proved to be illiterate and apologised. Surely it'd be just verbal caution not to do it again at most. However, no one can say to police or judge that he doesn't know murder or robbery is illegal; he didn't read the law books.