full day Linux Installation Workshops offered by UncleYap ;)

[singveld]

oh but i love my XP, anyway, my scanner only support xp. in fact it does not even support vista. even if my xp crash so many times, i never count, have to reinstall so many times i never count. it is like a cheating wife, even if she have many bf, you dun want to leave her, that is the relation of xp and me.

also PAP secret police will probably attend your class.

 

[uncleyap]

oh but i love my XP, anyway, my scanner only support xp. in fact it does not even support vista. even if my xp crash so many times, i never count, have to reinstall so many times i never count. it is like a cheating wife, even if she have many bf, you dun want to leave her, that is the relation of xp and me.

also PAP secret police will probably attend your class.

What you need is the newer Linux with XSANE:


http://www.google.com.sg/#hl=en&sou...nners&meta=&aq=4&oq=xsane&fp=fc5145d89efadda4

No need MS for scanners any more.

 

[Char_Azn]

Problem with anti-virus is not RAM. The RAM issue is little compared with the CPU issue. I pointed out that anti-virus caused PC to be VERY VERY SLOW, that is because it used TONS OF CPU CYCLE to scan for virus. There had been non-stop explosions on types of virus & malware, therefore the signatures & patterns that need to be scan is HUGE and increasing by the day. The scan engine may have a small foot print but the the signatures & patterns itself takes much more RAM.

The Anti-VIRUS also make RAM itself a huge drawback!!!

Because the more RAM you have the more anti-virus has to scan, if you got small RAM, it will fuck you less. Imagine you got on 1/2GB of RAM there is only so much to scan for virus (CONSTANTLY), but if you got 16GB, that is so much of CPU cycles to scan and scan non-stop. That's why MS can not be used.

Anti-virus is THE MOST SIGNIFICANT DEFEAT in computer world, because of virus you can not trust anything any more, when ever you have a little executable code, say 1KB, you scan it against many MBs of virus signature and patterns. It may be only few microseconds to execute your 1KB of code but you spend milli-seconds to SCAN it like shit. That is thousands of times more time than to run that code itself. Not just that, but the same sad truth is for EVERY bit of executable codes there is. Therefore a powerful computer is performing like a grandmother PC.

Not just executable codes can not be trusted in MS, data also can not be trusted, e.g. all JPEG images can also contain hidden malware and attacks, and can not be trusted, and must scan. STACKS in RAM also can be attacked, etc. There is nothing efficient anymore in MS. Linux is not the same fortunately.

With MS, more CPU cycles are WASTED than actually used, because of anti-virus. You may say that anti-virus scanners are tiny but they run VERY INTENSIVELY. They suck away your blood and your CPU cycles big time. Each tiny bit of code or library your RAM ever load, MUST be scan like hell before execution. That is very sick! That is also a very repetitive and wasteful task. You are scanning the same old codes billions of time as they comes in and out of your RAM.

I do sometimes wonder if you are really into IT as you so claimed or you are just so far behind in the latest technology that you have no idea what is going on

First off all antivirus have real time scans that scans every file that comes in. If your antivirus don't have that feature you shouldn't be using it. What this does is that it only scans for new changes in the file system. e.g. if you save a file, modify or create a new file the antivirus will activate it's scan.

Low memory footprint, its one of the things all antivirus companies have been working on improving. Like I stated earlier, the antivirus nowadays have very low memory footprint. I am currently using Symantec Endpoint Protection on my laptop. The Auto Protect feature takes up about 5mb out of my 2Gb Memory. Which means less then 0.0025% of the memory is used.(see attachment 1) I started a full scan on my C: and as you can see in attachment number 2, only about 26Mb out of 2Gb memory is used for the scan. It peaked at about 70Mb. I cut out the pictures and writing this post as I am doing the scan with no issues at all. At the same time I have 3 excel spreadsheet, 2 web browsers my email, Backup monitor and 1 Acrobat reader running without any noticeable performance drop which also means the CPU wasn't badly affected either.

3rd, since the auto protect is already running at all times, there is no need to do full scan of the system after the first scan since it should already be clear of viruses and anything new coming in will be detected by the auto protect. The only reason why you should be doing a full scan is because of existing files that were not previously identified as virus/malware and have been reviewed by antivirus companies to be one. You probably don't need to do a full scan more then once a month for that. I've also shown in earlier that unlike what you claimed, it does not take up system resources "VERY INTENSIVELY". Unless you want encode a video while you are doing a full scan. Watching Video, surfing the net will not be affected by good antivirus scans

Of coz I cannot deny the fact that part of what you say is true. It generally takes a slightly longer time to save/modify/create a file due to the fact that you need to scan it so instead of taking 1 nanosecond to save it, U need 5 nanoseconds, yeah like anyone can tell the difference!!!!

Unless you are taking about hosting a database/file server where the sheer number of files needed to be scanned are so huge that it makes it impractical and the slow down is very obvious. FYI many antivirus turned off auto scans by default when installed on server class OS. Even then, most servers do not see more then 10-15% changes in their files on a daily basis. I am almost 100% certain that changes on the PC will be even less then that. I think you should present the full facts to all the users instead of just ranting about antivirus and viruses. If not, you are no better then the local media you always condemn. Or is it just simply that you have no idea.

 

[Char_Azn]

oh but i love my XP, anyway, my scanner only support xp. in fact it does not even support vista. even if my xp crash so many times, i never count, have to reinstall so many times i never count. it is like a cheating wife, even if she have many bf, you dun want to leave her, that is the relation of xp and me.

also PAP secret police will probably attend your class.

XP has generally stopped having blue screen or crashing issue since SP2. If your Windows crash for no reason, I suggest you check the hardware drivers(upgrade all drivers/firmware and windows patches) or check the condition of the hardware itself.

And if you REALLY want to install Linux, 2 words for u. Dual Boot

 

[uncleyap]

I do sometimes wonder if you are really into IT as you so claimed or you are just so far behind in the latest technology that you have no idea what is going on

First off all antivirus have real time scans that scans every file that comes in. If your antivirus don't have that feature you shouldn't be using it. What this does is that it only scans for new changes in the file system. e.g. if you save a file, modify or create a new file the antivirus will activate it's scan.

Low memory footprint, its one of the things all antivirus companies have been working on improving. Like I stated earlier, the antivirus nowadays have very low memory footprint. I am currently using Symantec Endpoint Protection on my laptop. The Auto Protect feature takes up about 5mb out of my 2Gb Memory. Which means less then 0.0025% of the memory is used.(see attachment 1) I started a full scan on my C: and as you can see in attachment number 2, only about 26Mb out of 2Gb memory is used for the scan. It peaked at about 70Mb. I cut out the pictures and writing this post as I am doing the scan with no issues at all. At the same time I have 3 excel spreadsheet, 2 web browsers my email, Backup monitor and 1 Acrobat reader running without any noticeable performance drop which also means the CPU wasn't badly affected either.

3rd, since the auto protect is already running at all times, there is no need to do full scan of the system after the first scan since it should already be clear of viruses and anything new coming in will be detected by the auto protect. The only reason why you should be doing a full scan is because of existing files that were not previously identified as virus/malware and have been reviewed by antivirus companies to be one. You probably don't need to do a full scan more then once a month for that. I've also shown in earlier that unlike what you claimed, it does not take up system resources "VERY INTENSIVELY". Unless you want encode a video while you are doing a full scan. Watching Video, surfing the net will not be affected by good antivirus scans

Of coz I cannot deny the fact that part of what you say is true. It generally takes a slightly longer time to save/modify/create a file due to the fact that you need to scan it so instead of taking 1 nanosecond to save it, U need 5 nanoseconds, yeah like anyone can tell the difference!!!!

Unless you are taking about hosting a database/file server where the sheer number of files needed to be scanned are so huge that it makes it impractical and the slow down is very obvious. FYI many antivirus turned off auto scans by default when installed on server class OS. Even then, most servers do not see more then 10-15% changes in their files on a daily basis. I am almost 100% certain that changes on the PC will be even less then that. I think you should present the full facts to all the users instead of just ranting about antivirus and viruses. If not, you are no better then the local media you always condemn. Or is it just simply that you have no idea.

Correct, but I am saying that it is slow not because anti-virus spent lots of memory itself, it is spending tons of CPU cycles instead. If you looked at your own attached Jpeg #2, it proved my point. All the other processes shown by task manager showed to be spending ZERO cpu cycles, but your anti-virus itself pending 13%. That is what I am saying.

Also your other attachment showed that RTVSCAN.EXE took 5MB or RAM, true, but that did not include the much larger virus pattern and signature data which is NOT a part of the small RTVSCAN.EXE, it is data file that is loaded in your RAM not shown in task manager at all.

This is the data that your PC kept spending internet bandwidth to download from e.g. Sysmantec or McAfee daily. It is HUGE even when compressed. It get Uncompressed in your RAM when in use. Dozens of MB usually.

And all that is - just to tell anti-virus how the BAD threats will look like. Something like finger-print data of all the bad-guys, that you have scan each person's finger as you find each person on the street. In a way it is like Wong Kan Seng looking for MSK in the entire Singapore . Wong Kan Seng itself only 5MB but the bad-guys' finger prints have millions of bad-guys. It it intensive. Anti-virus works much harder than WKS, your attached task manager screen shot proved it.

 

[TeeKee]

Unless you are taking about hosting a database/file server where the sheer number of files needed to be scanned are so huge that it makes it impractical and the slow down is very obvious. FYI many antivirus turned off auto scans by default when installed on server class OS. Even then, most servers do not see more then 10-15% changes in their files on a daily basis. I am almost 100% certain that changes on the PC will be even less then that. I think you should present the full facts to all the users instead of just ranting about antivirus and viruses. If not, you are no better then the local media you always condemn. Or is it just simply that you have no idea.

aiyah what you mentioned is ideal case lah, with min resource usage, you must stand from his position, where he's kena watched by ISD....24x7....and PAP IBs, they attack his machine until both CPU and memory usage is max.

how? svchost.exe and Iass.exe loh...

that's why he switch the Linux....you think Linux got this kind of shit?

 

[Ash007]

kill -9 lah, no need books just type man kill.

I go check my storage boxes, if I have dumped the lot of Linux books in the dustbin...some of which were from O'reily etc...

I even have Caldera Linux...all sort of distro at one time, installing & uninstalling them, partition to run with MS WIN...etc.. crashing the PC..etc.. learning what is kill -9 or was it -7 , I have already forgotten, using KDE, open office, GIMP... ah yes..WINE...

Still have the GIMP book..which is now a treasure...

What I am sying is..one can read up...on LINUX...

 

[uncleyap]

kill -9 lah, no need books just type man kill.

I invite all you Linux users over to my Linux forum to discuss technical issues and opinions. Unless Sam is going to create a Linux /IT folder here, I hope my server can contribute to this sort of things, I paid a whole year of hosting charges already.

 

[uncleyap]

Regarding the Workshop, installation is only the Part1, which I agree is not much needed.

The Part 2 is like a tutorial for KDE 4.3.x operation, which is not the same as the past KDE 3.5.x which we had used for years.

Part 3 = hands on session

Part 4 = Q & A

I think most people may find more value to Part 2 / 3 / 4 instead of Part 1.

 

[Char_Azn]

Correct, but I am saying that it is slow not because anti-virus spent lots of memory itself, it is spending tons of CPU cycles instead. If you looked at your own attached Jpeg #2, it proved my point. All the other processes shown by task manager showed to be spending ZERO cpu cycles, but your anti-virus itself pending 13%. That is what I am saying..

First to reply to your comment about my screenshot that the antivirus took up 13 cycles

I started a full scan on my C: and as you can see in attachment number 2, only about 26Mb out of 2Gb memory is used for the scan. It peaked at about 70Mb. I cut out the pictures and writing this post as I am doing the scan with no issues at all. At the same time I have 3 excel spreadsheet, 2 web browsers my email, Backup monitor and 1 Acrobat reader running without any noticeable performance drop which also means the CPU wasn't badly affected either.

Like I mentioned in here, the full scan did not affect any work I was doing whatsoever and I was doing quite a number of things at the same time. I did not say anything about the system not getting affected, however the resources taken up is insignificant enough for you to not notice it unless you are doing a very system intensive job like playing games or encoding videos.

Then again, if you are using Linux, you probably won't have any games to play and it's not exactly the type of OS you will use to encode a video. And if that isn't enough for you, Symantec have programmed the software such that it will only work when you are not working which is why I was totally unaffected by the scan. Virus scan these days are not like it used to be. It does not hog the all your system resources causing you to have to stop working

Also your other attachment showed that RTVSCAN.EXE took 5MB or RAM, true, but that did not include the much larger virus pattern and signature data which is NOT a part of the small RTVSCAN.EXE, it is data file that is loaded in your RAM not shown in task manager at all.

Contrary to what you think. Antiviruses do not take the entire definition library and park it in the memory all day every day. It only does so when U do a scan as shown in the earlier attachment 2 which is why u see the spike in memory usage. But as I pointed out earlier, the memory usage peaked at 70mb out of a possible 2Gb memory representing roughly 3.5% of my total memory capacity. It's pretty much negligible. I was doing multiple things at the same time and the full scan did nothing to interrupt my work.

However I would like to mention that since we were only talking about antivirus, I did not mention that Symantec Endpoint Protection have built in Firewall and built in Spyware. The virus scan itself as mentioned earlier is only about +/-5mb. The total memory footprint of all this in total is 20-25Mb. Please note that any parts of those component can be manually switched off.

Most system bought within the last 3 years will usually have a minimum of 1Gb memory. This represents only about 2.5% of your total memory capacity

This is the data that your PC kept spending internet bandwidth to download from e.g. Sysmantec or McAfee daily. It is HUGE even when compressed. It get Uncompressed in your RAM when in use. Dozens of MB usually.

If you use the automatic update that comes with all antivirus, the daily download require per client machine for virus definition is a few Kb NOT the dozens of Mb you so claimed. Unless of coz you manually download the virus definition along with the installer from the website manually, that will be upwards of a few hundred Mb. Why U would want to do that I have no idea.

If every freaking machine needs to download dozens of Mb of information every day, a network like my company's which in Asia alone have more then 2000 plus clients will have its network flooded with pple downloading the same thing 2000+ times. Serious waste of resources.

I strongly suggest you actually do some reading and research before you come in here with all your bullshit.

 

[Char_Azn]

aiyah what you mentioned is ideal case lah, with min resource usage, you must stand from his position, where he's kena watched by ISD....24x7....and PAP IBs, they attack his machine until both CPU and memory usage is max.

how? svchost.exe and Iass.exe loh...

that's why he switch the Linux....you think Linux got this kind of shit?

Nah, I doubt the ISD would be wasting time on him. They are too busy looking out for his master. When Chee makes a move, his sidekick will be there.

Why be bothered with a runner when U know who the drug lord is

 

[singveld]

XP has generally stopped having blue screen or crashing issue since SP2. If your Windows crash for no reason, I suggest you check the hardware drivers(upgrade all drivers/firmware and windows patches) or check the condition of the hardware itself.

And if you REALLY want to install Linux, 2 words for u. Dual Boot

yes blue screen is hardware problem.
but biggest problem is virus and trojans, worms when you install software or surfing the web. antivirus cannot recover and you have no choice but to reinstall the whole system.

 

[TeeKee]

yes blue screen is hardware problem.
but biggest problem is virus and trojans, worms when you install software or surfing the web. antivirus cannot recover and you have no choice but to reinstall the whole system.

why you all always have blue screen/virus problems?

if anything happens to my system, i always reformat and re-install again....

i dunno if you can re-install xp/unbuntu/osx from usb stick...sure speed the hell up...

unless you like to start afresh everytime, always remember to backup your important data....

 

[Char_Azn]

yes blue screen is hardware problem.
but biggest problem is virus and trojans, worms when you install software or surfing the web. antivirus cannot recover and you have no choice but to reinstall the whole system.

It simply means that U are using a really lousy antivirus. Try using some one of the major ones like Norton, McAfee or Kapersky instead. If U want free one, go download from AVG

 

[TeeKee]

It simply means that U are using a really lousy antivirus. Try using some one of the major ones like Norton, McAfee or Kapersky instead. If U want free one, go download from AVG

dun use AVG..that's always reading your HD....will slow down your system alot..

try AntiVir...

 

[singveld]

It simply means that U are using a really lousy antivirus. Try using some one of the major ones like Norton, McAfee or Kapersky instead. If U want free one, go download from AVG

i uses mcafee , the problem are there are thousands and thousands of virus. the company cannot have solution for all.

 

[singveld]

constantly upgrade my computer parts.
and also i overclock my CPU and video card

why you all always have blue screen/virus problems?

if anything happens to my system, i always reformat and re-install again....

i dunno if you can re-install xp/unbuntu/osx from usb stick...sure speed the hell up...

unless you like to start afresh everytime, always remember to backup your important data....

 

[TeeKee]

i uses mcafee , the problem are there are thousands and thousands of virus. the company cannot have solution for all.

mcafee is crap shit...if you go some website, kena infected with trojans...mcafee won't detect it!

 

[uncleyap]

You are far apart from Linux which you have no idea what you are talking about. I know the MS craps since the days of DOS. Linux is the OS used by supercomputers instead of Unix, it is selected because it is a good fastest developing platform jointly developed by entire open source world. SGI for example use Linux instead of their own Irix (Unix) for super computers that has thousands of CPUs and hundred TB of RAM.

Games? There are thousands of them. Video intensive works on professional post production works like Discrete Logic, Pixar, etc software to do Hollywood Star Wars & Jurassic Park animations are running these Linux OS, many are SGIs. I came from that industry, where I used SGI Irix before I saw Linux appeared on www.

The producers of the games have to use either Unix or Linux or Mac OS to get their games out. NOT MS.

Not some poor platforms like MS that can be screwed by virus.

Scanning for virus is something that you MUST NOT BE FORCED TO WASTE TIME + $$$$ + CPU + RAM onto period.

No need to argue how to scan this way or that way. Simply, a reliable system must not be subjected to these silly exploitations and wastage.

Serious works and functions are all depending on Unix, BSD, Linux or Mac, not MS. Mac OS is not for other than their line of products essentially, never used on mainframe servers that has few hundred CPUs. Most of Internet's infrastructure use either BSD or Linux or Unix, considering Sun Solaris as Unix.

MS will be at most left as a home game platform very soon. It is for those who can continue to afford to be exploited and fooled.

Scanning virus is the most stupid thing for a computer to be wasting time & resources to do, just like scanning very person's finger print over and over millions of times, just in case one time you may catch one MSK! However, in reality, the poor sucker users CPU and RAM as long as not turned off, will be scanning all the same executables over and over for countless time, just because there is potential exploits, due to the hidden MAIN EXPLOITER known as MS.

The linux desktop / laptop installation foot print is about 3GB-4GB on HDD typically, consisting of everything from OS to drivers to applications including games, office, graphics, multimedia, cameras, CDR/DVD-R, communications, web, database etc, ALL installed together at one single go - without repeated reboots. Virus is never a real concern, just like in Unix & Mac & BSD.

Unlike MS which use only max 3.5GB of RAM, linux have no limits, since you can write custom kernel modules like the SGI giants did. The CPU chips' limitation is the bottleneck. X86_64 Linux kernel can address memory range 128TB.

http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_31

I you got so much RAM but had to scan virus inside hundred TB of RAM it is a REAL HUGE JOKE!

Realistically, for current DDR3 & DDR2 desktop / laptop, 6GB or 8GB is good. Let users use Virtual Machines with say 2GBs per VM.

These VM can be MS Craps too, and yes you don't need to scan them for virus, because the are VMs that auto reverts to uncorrupted snapshots.

VM let users swiftly flip between OS and different machines, when you have the RAM + CPU for it, you can have Linux; Solaris; Mac OS; & MS crap all before you at the same time. But you must NOT let MS be the host's base OS, unless you want yourself screwed.

The only time Linux do virus scan is to protect MS users, or save their ass. That is like a mail gateway, or Internet security / virus wall. Which is a joke, because the better OS have to clean backside or the poor OS! It is still waste of resources.

I had used MS since days of DOS & MS Basic when Bill Gate were still writing his codes. But I stop worrying about virus after I used Linux. The only time I need to care about virus / spyware is when people ask for my help to rescue their PCs.:(:p I am already really sick and tired about virus. Those things you wrote on how to scan virus, are meaningless and no point for me to read nor respond to. When laptop & desktop users know how to avoid MS, 99% of these problem will become legacy - MS legacy actually.

One day the PC games will also ditch MS & adopt a new OS which game developers produced from Open Source technologies. All it needed is a layer that emulates the legacy MS craps, for the older games to run. But I am not too concerned on game's aspect. My focus is on the non-entertainment aspects of computing. The business; SOHO; & Study desktops.

 

[TeeKee]

Market Share for Top Servers Across All Domains August 1995 - January 2009