Singaporeans - abandoned by PAP, rescued by real First World Australia

[neddy]

Singaporean woman left Asian Australian common law partner sometime back.
Wanted to move back to Singapore, partly to care for sick mother.

Singapore govt sent her a cold inhuman letter, giving her a choice to give up her OZ citizenship or her Singapore citizenship.

She asked ICA for extension and appeal her case to have her Singapore citizenship extended until her mother die.
Another clinically cold reply of Not granted from ICA.

She renounced her Aussie citizenship after assurance from employer that her former citizen visa would not affect her Fed job.

Her renunciation application was rejected because her child was not a Singaporean at the time of application. Unlike Singapore, Australia does not allow a citizen to become stateless.

She had no time to write to ICA to apply for her child's Singapore citizenship.

Anyway she did not trust Singapore govt anymore after the robotic correspondence with such a heartless govt.

While she was asking her lawyer what to do, the letter came on the decision to revoke her Sinking citizenship.


There are a lot of details that I will not comment due to privacy protection.

Maybe Scroobal can dig up her case from ICA and help.

 

[scroobal]

If the woman is a Singapore citizen and wants to come back home to look after her mother, why is there a need to ask the Singapore Government Just come back and look after the mother. If her child is not a Singapore citizens, just come in on social visit pass. Later can make the necessary applications. The kid will be on dependent's pass, followed by PR and then case by case basis. Hundreds of Singapore women after their marriage breakdown with their foreigner partners return home and start life anew. They also have kids that do not hold Singapore citizenship.

Tell the fucking woman this is not MacDonald's where she picks and chooses. When she was screwing the foreigner did she ask permission from the Singapore Government.

Now after the ranting, I suspect that her name is on a HDB flat or shares a flat with a family member. You cannot enjoy public funded privileges and acquire another citizenship. If she owns a bungalow, condo or private property no problem holding on to 2 citizenship. No Minister is going to revoke a citizenship without a basis. Holding on another country's citizenship is not a basis for revocation.

Give me more details and I can check.

ps. She should also mingle with the right crowd than have friends who have no brains.

 

[scroobal]

Singapore women marrying foreigners and leaving our shores has been going on for years. Many nurses and others have married British and NZ servicemen who have been based in Naval base, and other bases. It still goes on. For safety these woman do not give up their Singapore citizenship in the event something goes wrong with their marriage. When I was in School, every now and then a chap cheng kid will come in at mid term for the same reason. This and other Govts handle these cases in a routine manner because it is business as usual. About 50% have kids who did not acquire Singapore citizenship within a year of birth. So they go thru the usual steps.

Some have picked up another citizenship but few and far between because they too like many Singaporeans think it is illegal. These woman who hold additional citizenship and return got nothing to fear. When time to renew Singapore passport and they are living in Singapoe will be asked politely to give up their citizenship. Sometime the letter will appear in the 2nd year of return to Singapore. This is triggered by records where a foreign passport was presented in the past at the checkpoint. Also a nice letter.

Once again, these are quite common.

As the government does not endorse or support dual citizenship, they are not going to have a public discussion on such matters.

 

[neddy]

No Minister is going to revoke a citizenship without a basis. Holding on another country's citizenship is not a basis for revocation.

Give me more details and I can check.

ps. She should also mingle with the right crowd than have friends who have no brains.

I promised her that I will not tell others her case.

I meant to highlight how vague the Singapore authorities do things and how clear the process is in Australia.
And this is causing a lot of unnecessary grief to NSmen, families, etc.

It is also making true blue Sinkees see green witn stories of FTs taking Sinkee scholarships to go overseas and regaining their old citizenship. What can Singapore govt do then?

There were some inconsistency in her story over the use of her Singapore Passport to get back to Australia. Eg. How did she get up the flight to Australia when there is no Aussie visa in her Singapore passport.

Anyway, I just let it be. She was closed to tears sharing her loss of Sinking citizenship with another ex Singaporean.

She appeared genuinely upset over the treatment mete out to her.

After experiencing Aussie compassion, Loong is not winning any friends.

 

[neddy]

I believe her notice period was a month, but the letter was sent to an old or Singapore address. In the end, she must have panicked when she received the delayed letter.

 

[scroobal]

This govt is always vague and never transparent.

However they will not abandon a citizen even if she is holding a second citizenship especially if she wants to return home due to marriage failure and her mother needs her attention. There has to be more to this story. The letter that is sent out is to consider giving up one citizenship. The whole process leading to revocation takes months. There has to be other correspondences.
One thing I tell Singaporeans and ex-Singaporeans is to provide their current address wherever they are in the World so that they do not fall into a hole like this. They are not involved in anything illegal or running for politics. Yet the self-fear is unbelievable. I am pretty sure she is an owner of a HDB flat.

Here is what she should have done. Give up the Aussie citizenship, return to Singapore and look after her mum and get her daughter a PR. No govt in the world is going to deny a minor to be with her mother or alternatively return to Singapore and when and if she receives a letter from ICA to consider giving up one, then follow the first part.

When the time is right and she and her daughter wants to return to Australis for good all she has to do is go to the Australian High Commission and apply to regain her Australian Citizenship. She will have to show the letter from the Singapore Govt asking to give the citizenship and the need to look after her mother. Thats all she needs.

I promised her that I will not tell others her case.

I meant to highlight how vague the Singapore authorities do things and how clear the process is in Australia.
And this is causing a lot of unnecessary grief to NSmen, families, etc.

It is also making true blue Sinkees see green witn stories of FTs taking Sinkee scholarships to go overseas and regaining their old citizenship. What can Singapore govt do then?

There were some inconsistency in her story over the use of her Singapore Passport to get back to Australia. Eg. How did she get up the flight to Australia when there is no Aussie visa in her Singapore passport.

Anyway, I just let it be. She was closed to tears sharing her loss of Sinking citizenship with another ex Singaporean.

She appeared genuinely upset over the treatment mete out to her.

After experiencing Aussie compassion, Loong is not winning any friends.

 

[scroobal]

Anyway, she can return to Singapore as an Aussie citizen to look after her mum on long term visit pass. She can then go to her MP and make an appeal to regain her citizenship and give up the Aussie one.

The Minister has the power and the discretion unlike the Australian law which is a right.

I believe her notice period was a month, but the letter was sent to an old or Singapore address. In the end, she must have panicked when she received the delayed letter.

 

[scroobal]

The Australian compassion has nothing to do with her case. She fucked up By the way, Australia has the right to make someone stateless if there has been misrepresentation. It is not different to laws else where.

I have no doubt that the Singapore Govt is one of the worst, but this lady's story is really from a Harry Potter's world.

 

[eatshitndie]

http://news.asiaone.com/News/The+New+Paper/Story/A1Story20090104-112246.html

this is only one of many cases where a sinkie can have his or her citizenship revoked, and this chap becomes stateless. other cases i've posted and linked are buried in another thread. the most forgotten one involved a kid with japanese name born to jap mother who lives in sg. he served ns yet still lost his sg citizenship as he did not take the oath at age 21 after being served 3 reminders by ica. he is stateless and in limbo as he cannot get either jap or sg citizenship. there are 6 ways where one can have his her citizenship revoked (bottom of article).....

1. those who hide past criminal records when applying for citizenship.
2. someone who is considered a security threat.
3. those whose birth or citizenship status is not registered by parents or guardians.
4. a child born to a parent or parents who are foreigners and are not legally married at the time.
5. a person born in singapore who uses travel documents under a different nationality.
6. a person whose citizenship the gov cannot establish from its database, and who has no documents to prove it.

in the statutes, the power of revocation has been delegated by minister of mha to ica officers, and they have discretionary powers at ports of entry to enforce and execute oaths, including seizure of passports and revocation of citizenship. any hearsay info that it must involve a minister directly and personally to revoke a sinkie citizenship is bogus and pure bs.

 

[neddy]

Usually, Australia will try not to make anyone stateless but civil liberty lawyers will use the 1956 Convention on Stateless Persons to argue the case.

You found her record, Any Singaporean woman (she does not behave like a lady) who has tattoos is not necessary fucked up.
But humans do make the wrong decisions in life. Not just those who marry foreigners or can't find jobs after 40.

As for Singapore, the power to revoke citizenship because some procedures are not followed is too much. For a country who is prepared to dish out citizenship for sports and money.

The case for Australia is usually terrorism.

 

[neddy]

http://sammyboy.com/showthread.php?...ustralia-Guess-the-race&p=1521313#post1521313

This case in reference.
Dr fingering around.
Also, the patient is a fucked up heavy weeds user.

But his family saved him from deportation. Hospital staff raise $35,000 for his case.

His punishment is prison time, and detention.

He will be compensated for his wrongful detention time.

Clear laws ~ what can or cannot be done. And humanity in considering his kids.

 

[neddy]

Thanks to Scroobal and ESND
Thankyou for your comments.

 

[eatshitndie]

http://news.asiaone.com/News/The+New+Paper/Story/A1Story20101108-246249.html

case of ogawa ryuju. small errata on my part. he's born to a jap father and sinkie mom, not jap mom as i've stated earlier. got his pink ic and sg passport while doing ns, but lost it all at 22 when he did not produce documentary proof he had renounced his jap citizenship, sign a form to pledge allegiance to sg, and recite the national pledge before the commissioner of oaths.

 

[neddy]

http://news.asiaone.com/News/The+New+Paper/Story/A1Story20101108-246249.html

case of ogawa ryuju. small errata on my part. he's born to a jap father and sinkie mom, not jap mom as i've stated earlier. got his pink ic and sg passport while doing ns, but lost it all at 22 when he did not produce documentary proof he had renounced his jap citizenship, sign a form to pledge allegiance to sg, and recite the national pledge before the commissioner of oaths.

You are referring to the Singapore Pledge, the one talking about democractic justice and equality.
That is a joke.

But what Scroobal said about the alternative options are quite right, like Long term pass.

But I am not sure about getting Singapore citizenship back. I personally have no wish to regain one.


A friend sent me a letter from ICA.

The wordings from ICA is very polite,

"However, if you wish to remain as an xxxxxx citizen, you can consider renouncing your Singapore citizenship voluntarily. A set of the Renunciation forms is enclosed for your use."

I guess no matter how nice the letter is wriiten, the gravity of this decision that come suddenly must be a shock.

Added to that is the point.

"We would appreciate it if you could let us know your decision kn your choice of citizenship by (date)"

And tne date being a month from letter date.


Australia, a country that welcome dual citizenship. It is easy to fall for the easy living lifestyle that offers the residents the kind of freedom not seen in Singapore.

 

[eatshitndie]

A friend sent me a letter from ICA.

The wordings from ICA is very polite,

"However, if you wish to remain as an xxxxxx citizen, you can consider renouncing your Singapore citizenship voluntarily. A set of the Renunciation forms is enclosed for your use."

I guess no matter how nice the letter is wriiten, the gravity of this decision that come suddenly must be a shock.

Added to that is the point.

"We would appreciate it if you could let us know your decision kn your choice of citizenship by (date)"

And tne date being a month from letter date.


Australia, a country that welcome dual citizenship. It is easy to fall for the easy living lifestyle that offers the residents the kind of freedom not seen in Singapore.

ica officers are bunglers and clueless themselves. never trust them for handling your case properly. the way they misinformed ogawa ryuju and bungled the case, you can tell they were confused themselves. when they start sending letters (to cover their collective arse), even asking you politely to renounce "voluntarily", it's a warning or tactic known as "i told you so." after 3 warnings without a reply, they would revoke. never renounce the other citizenship for the sake of complying with ica instructions. there's no guarantee that ica will honor their side of the bargain after you have renounced the other citizenship. the ogawa case serves as a reminder for all.

 

[scroobal]

Can you tell us how many days between date to be notified of the decision and the date of the revocation.?

You are referring to the Singapore Pledge, the one talking about democractic justice and equality.
That is a joke.

But what Scroobal said about the alternative options are quite right, like Long term pass.

But I am not sure about getting Singapore citizenship back. I personally have no wish to regain one.


A friend sent me a letter from ICA.

The wordings from ICA is very polite,

"However, if you wish to remain as an xxxxxx citizen, you can consider renouncing your Singapore citizenship voluntarily. A set of the Renunciation forms is enclosed for your use."

I guess no matter how nice the letter is wriiten, the gravity of this decision that come suddenly must be a shock.

Added to that is the point.

"We would appreciate it if you could let us know your decision kn your choice of citizenship by (date)"

And tne date being a month from letter date.


Australia, a country that welcome dual citizenship. It is easy to fall for the easy living lifestyle that offers the residents the kind of freedom not seen in Singapore.

 

[neddy]

Can you tell us how many days between date to be notified of the decision and the date of the revocation.?

No idea. The address area was covered, together with the letter date, before it was scanned to me.

But I was told, a month. If you want the exact number of days, I can ask again.

 

[scroobal]

All she has to do is call up and tell them the letter had reached her late sit was posted to her Singapore address and in the meantime she had taken action to cancel her OZ citizenship and show the paper work.

No idea. The address area was covered, together with the letter date, before it was scanned to me.

But I was told, a month. If you want the exact number of days, I can ask again.

 

[neddy]

ica officers are bunglers and clueless themselves. never trust them for handling your case properly. the way they misinformed ogawa ryuju and bungled the case, you can tell they were confused themselves. when they start sending letters (to cover their collective arse), even asking you politely to renounce "voluntarily", it's a warning or tactic known as "i told you so." after 3 warnings without a reply, they would revoke. never renounce the other citizenship for the sake of complying with ica instructions. there's no guarantee that ica will honor their side of the bargain after you have renounced the other citizenship. the ogawa case serves as a reminder for all.

They are just following orders. But I am not pleased at all. People who do not know their jobs handling such important matters. The letter is signed by a Supervisor in tbe Citizen Services Centre.

 

[neddy]

All she has to do is call up and tell them the letter had reached her late sit was posted to her Singapore address and in the meantime she had taken action to cancel her OZ citizenship and show the paper work.

You are right, she could have easily taken the rejection letter from the Australian citizenship and appeal for more time.
I don't know why she did not do that. I think she really mishandled her case.

I do not know her full story, I just pity her that she does not have proper guidence to manage this important issue.

My utilities bill tells me, if you need more time to pay, please call them at this number.
When I get job rejection letters, I get contact person to call if I want to know more, or wish to appeal.

But a letter to decide on citizenship, nothing. ICA can do better.

My personal suggestion for an international city Singapore.

Better still, have a FAQ section.

When in Singapore banks, I see ah mahs and ah kongs finding bank officers to talk and share grief over a modern England speaking world they suddenly found themselves.