An Election STRATEGY that could TOPPLE this government.

[lockeliberal]

Dear Nice

First you complain abt the odds put against the opposition by the PAP and then that the route for the opposition through parliament is closed and then U call for the opposition to contest in wards headed by key PAP figures like LKY and LHL ? What illogical crap are u talking abt ?




Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

Actually I have a differing recommendation. Send a team of young, earnest , professionals against LKY in T Pagar. Another suicide squad aka AMK , but its not meant to win rather its designed to tempt LKY to over react against a younger team. Something along the lines of that young journalist but on a national political scale, none of that young fire brand name calling activists type , but rather disciplined professionals with a concise disciplined message giving due respect to old man but always disagreeing.

Nice you will notice see's LKY or LHL as the linch pin behind the PAP. For some reason he argues that the route for the opposition through parliament is closed ( SDP ) style but argues that they should attack the PAP and LKY or LHL in their home constituencies and expect to win.

Personally I am afraid that the election are due in June 2009 with all signs pointing. to it being a CRSIS election aka 2001 repeated but magnified and I am afraid that the SDP as whole will FRAK it up again for the opposition vote, based A) Track record b) their tendency to blame LKY for everything C) Writings to date indicating b D) their supporters of whom there are few tending to sound out their notions first on the net appealing to their core group. E) Woodlands 2001 as history.,



Locke

 

[snrcitizen]

The moment you talk about quality of opposition, we will lose focus. Old man's favourite habit at election timke was talking about academic qualifications of opposition. Let not fall into that trap.

1. This has been the ruse of LKY for years. Yet no one has ever countered him on the fact that he had to depend on people like a chee cheong fun seller to make the numbers to get into power.

He had an untested team to sell to Singaporeans at the time to vote them into power. After getting into power he betrayed the very people who gave him the support and hung on to power since then by surrounding himself with people who would owe their very existence to him.

2. Many still believe they will vote in such pattern that would keep the PAP in power and hope for 51% vs 49% in parliament, just in case. Well, what they do not realise this has never worked for umpteen elections.

In fact, this mentality has suited the PAP extremely well by allowing the PAP sweep into power at every election with only 33% voting for the opposition and with the Westminster system in place, they have complete and unquestioned ruthless reign resulting in us suffering for the next 5 years without having a clue why this is so.

If this mentality among voters do not change, we deserve to be punished for having screwed ourselves, yet again.

 

[scroobal]

Dear Scroobal

Actually I have a differing recommendation. Send a team of young, earnest , professionals against LKY in T Pagar. Another suicide squad aka AMK , but its not meant to win rather its designed to tempt LKY to over react against a younger team. Something along the lines of that young journalist but on a national political scale, none of that young fire brand name calling activists type , but rather disciplined professionals with a concise disciplined message giving due respect to old man but always disagreeing.

I see where you are coming from. I still think they will lose their deposit. Tanjong Pagar residents are a specially treated lot. If you find that category of candidates, might as well put them in AMK.

Nice you will notice see's LKY or LHL as the linch pin behind the PAP. For some reason he argues that the route for the opposition through parliament is closed ( SDP ) style but argues that they should attack the PAP and LKY or LHL in their home constituencies and expect to win.

He is either fixated with the old man or does not want anyone else to get into opposition. Sort of dog in the manger approach.

Personally I am afraid that the election are due in June 2009 with all signs pointing. to it being a CRSIS election aka 2001 repeated but magnified and I am afraid that the SDP as whole will FRAK it up again for the opposition vote, based A) Track record b) their tendency to blame LKY for everything C) Writings to date indicating b D) their supporters of whom there are few tending to sound out their notions first on the net appealing to their core group. E) Woodlands 2001 as history.,

Yes, the PAP is going to pitch "how they are the only ones to save singapore from recession" before it becomes worse.

As for the SDP, it pretty much a non entity with both Chee and his sister disqualified. No one else in the party has a profile. I doubt they are going to get any media attention.

I am waiting for another party to be formed around Ti Lik.

As for the SDP supporters - yes, the usual circular logic and excuses around approved opposition, elections rigged, 66% of Singaporeans stupid, 1991 a freak results, Obama is coming to save Singapore after reading Chee's letter, 3 cornered fight in potong pasir, famous human rights canadian lawyer taking up the case.

 

[scroobal]

1.

2. Many still believe they will vote in such pattern that would keep the PAP in power and hope for 51% vs 49% in parliament, just in case. Well, what they do not realise this has never worked for umpteen elections.

In fact, this mentality has suited the PAP extremely well by allowing the PAP sweep into power at every election with only 33% voting for the opposition and with the Westminster system in place, they have complete and unquestioned ruthless reign resulting in us suffering for the next 5 years without having a clue why this is so.

If this mentality among voters do not change, we deserve to be punished for having screwed ourselves, yet again.

Partly its the mentality and partly its the introduction of GRC. This sort of mentality was best displayed by Yaw of WP who revealed in his blog why he voted for the PAP and why he asked his mother to vote for the PAP and never ever conceded that it was a mistake - shocking one at that. If Yaw who worked with 2 major political parties can't understand the equation, the man in the street can't.

In 1991, the by-election tactic worked brilliantly as the masses were assured of "proven" govt and therefore returned 4 opposition MPs. My understanding is that it was the work of Maurice who mapped out the strategy for the opposition.

PAP immediately responded by increasing the number of GRCs and increasing the number of seats in each GRC.

A rehash of by elections strateg is necessary and with the young who are more worldly and the rapidly displaced and unemployed singaporeans, hopefully we will see some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[kiwibird7]

It would be better to trigger infighting and bickering amongst the PAP upper echelons following a poorer showing in the GE results or the shock capture of a GRC rather than heading straight for LKY's Tanjong Pagar heartland with a 'suicide' opposition team.

As for the suggestion for a total boycott strategy by others; that is a pure waste of effort. The world will not interfere nor do they care if a govt has used unfair election practices. Even if they do care or interfere in the form of economic pressures/sanctions etc, who suffers more? Will LKY and his elites suffer grieviously or the common lesser mortals?

The purpose of world pressure/sanctions is to weaken the oppressive regime concerned so that the masses can rise up to topple it. If the majority of the citizens continue to support their govt, then such measures are useless.

 

[kakowi]

I find that most people here are convinced of the rightness of their position (and interpretation of others' words).

In the final analysis, it all depends on the opposition leaders - how they visualize their strategy, communicate it to the electorate and it is their words and actions that will carry the day.

The battle is out there, not here.


If it is indeed true that June 2009 will be election day, then it would appear to carry frightening implications.

For these reasons:

(1) replenishment of the losses by GIC and Temasek after the mandate

(2) replenishment of the losses by the Town Councils after the mandate

(3) and the usual after election nonsense



Another area of concern is that the direction of PM LHL which he is trying to steer Singapore towards to, appears lost or crippled or stalled

- singapore as a regional medical hub
- singapore as a magnet to the wealthy with casinos, f1
- singapore as a sports nation
- singapore to gain investment revenue through her spending on citibank, ubs, etc and also perhaps become a significant player in world politics through economic clout
- singapore to undergo population renewal via foreign talents

These are courageous foresights but the current crisis stalemate much of it

As a result, there is a need to reinvent another strategy for singapore or just pump in more money and hope that time and circumstance will bail us out

An early election date can give him the clout to do either of the two.

But the question remains - to what effectiveness and at what cost?




Perhaps if we are less anti-LKY and more pro-Singapore, we might be in a better position to see the implications of a PAP victory with significant opposition inroads versus a Opposition victory and a PAP loss, in the light of our economic situation and the probable actions that will be taken after the election.

Maybe that is the mindset that MM LKY wants us to have so that they will get a landslide victory again. Such a strategy works because most people's minds cannot take shades of grey.

But Singaporeans know (or at least i hope they do) that a landslide victory for the PAP carries negative implications for them.

And if Singaporeans know that, then they will seek viable alternatives from the opposition.

This, if correct, represents a good opportunity for the opposition.

They may not be fully ready but the Singaporeans are ready for their message.

This is the worst of times.

It is also the best of times.

 

[kakowi]

...
the rapidly displaced and unemployed singaporeans...

hmm...i forgot this fact

if unemployment rate is expected to rise further in the later part of this year with no end in sight, then an early election makes sense

 

[scroobal]

It would be better to trigger infighting and bickering amongst the PAP upper echelons following a poorer showing in the GE results or the shock capture of a GRC rather than heading straight for LKY's Tanjong Pagar heartland with a 'suicide' opposition team.

.

Looks like the air in Christchurch does help the grey cells better than the Singapore air does.

By the way, a few people are waiting with bated breath for Obama to come over and the remove the PAP. More so now that a letter has been sent after his inauguration speech.

 

[kingrant]

That's the whole reason for forming political parties as well as holding elections: to win a majority seat in the parliament and to form their own government. To do that in a proclaimed democracy country with a set of capitalist laws, you will need the mandate of the citizen. Hence the need for election. That's why it's often referred as the do-or-die campaign.

Even if you were to topple LHL, what gives? If LHL and LKY were both defeated (let's assume this way), but the PAPies still hold the majority to run the country, what gives you the idea that change will come around? You have to remember one thing: even if the leader is not holding on to the seat, as long as he/she is still alive, he/she still pulls the strings in the running of the country. That's a fact which no one can change. Already, there are so many examples worldwide, in that case, why do you even talk about ONLY toppling LHL?

That's right. Evenif LKY/LHL lost, as long as PAP wins the elections, they can elect a PM among those who got in. It doesnt mean LKY and LHL cannot wield the real power behind. Look at Deng Xiao Peng. He relinquished his posts but was still China's strongman till the last.

The PAP can call by-elections to bring them back in, which may be very likely to see them win, as the people will be ruled by fear and try to restore the status quo, seeing that it has gone freak.

I say the Opp can't win, the fear factor for uncertainty is there, and there is still no credible Opposition govt; but if voters everywhere vote against the PAP by voting for the Opp without regards to who, then the margin will be reduced significantly, and that's the message to send. Get more Opp members in as NCMPs and speak up to prove yrselves. In another 5 years time, these MPs will be respected more and may win next time.

 

[kingrant]

Hmmm...two more points:

(1) An extra 5 opposition may create a catalyst for more people to join the opposition

Even if they do nothing but give speeches, their success will be an encouragement to others

So there is still some good (but i am ambivalent about this )


(2) On the other hand, your method of bringing down the PAP will leave a vacuum. I presume you are a singaporean. Then this vacuum will create a period of uncertainty in Singapore. If you are also thinking of your fellow singaporeans, this will not be a situation that you want.

It is better to have courageous and viable oppositions in Parliament, let them build up their strength and capability and in time to come, the emergence of a viable alternative.

Once you have that viable alternative, a number of citizens will be willing to consider them.


One final point:

(3) Scroobal's insider knowledge give me pause for thought. I and possibly you are just giving opinions here and in the final analysis, just opinions.

So we cannot exclude the possibility that we might be wrong.

What is good on paper might not be achievable - the terrain (which we do not know) may change the strategy.

Fully concur with you. I'm surprised that a few are still not familiar with the parliamentary system that you have to be an MP first to become a PM. If LKY and LHL are not returned, they will just elect another from those who got it -normally the one with highest votes has the prerogative of being chosen. LKY and LHL do not lose their PAP CEC status just because they lost the seat in parliament, as that is a Party matter, so these two jokers can still rule from outside Parliament, and use the PM as proxy. Comprenez?

 

[Sideswipe]

Fully concur with you. I'm surprised that a few are still not familiar with the parliamentary system that you have to be an MP first to become a PM. If LKY and LHL are not returned, they will just elect another from those who got it -normally the one with highest votes has the prerogative of being chosen. LKY and LHL do not lose their PAP CEC status just because they lost the seat in parliament, as that is a Party matter, so these two jokers can still rule from outside Parliament, and use the PM as proxy. Comprenez?

I thought so too but someone have pointed out that you doesn't have to be a member of Parliament to be the PM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Turner I haven't fully read laws of Westminster system ( it might differ from country to county ) But it seems the executive branch does not necessary be made up of members of the legislative. But a Prime Minster without parliamentary status can't appear in parliament to speak to MPs.

John Turner can't rule without a mandate and call for snap elections soon.

so yes, a executive branch member has to be a MP, he has to be elected as his mandate to remain a cabinet member.

 

[scroobal]

I thought so too but someone have pointed out that you doesn't have to be a member of Parliament to be the PM..

Actually Singapore amongst all other Westminister practising countries is very clear in law that PM and Cabinet members must be MPs.

Its is not the case for the rest. The Australian constitution does even mention the Prime Minister. The Westminister model is very much based on royal perogative that gives such powers to the Queen and her proxies who are usually gov generals in places like OZ and Canada.

 

[kakowi]

Dear Scroobal

Actually I have a differing recommendation. Send a team of young, earnest , professionals against LKY in T Pagar. Another suicide squad aka AMK , but its not meant to win rather its designed to tempt LKY to over react against a younger team. Something along the lines of that young journalist but on a national political scale, none of that young fire brand name calling activists type , but rather disciplined professionals with a concise disciplined message giving due respect to old man but always disagreeing.

...

If the intention is to engage in public debate with the PAP on issues, then this strategy is highly excellent.

The publicity that ensues from the debate will catch the public's eyes and ears.

And the fallout on the other political candidates will be highly favourable for these reasons:

(1) people get to see that the opposition candidates are men and women of substance

(2) people get to hear that they make good points

(3) people get to hear about the alternative world that the opposition has been trying to make all along for the past 40years



In my opinion, this will do far more for the opposition cause in terms of publicity for the opposition, respect generated for them, mindshare in terms of their proposals and positive votes for them in other GRCs.

In addition, that team of young professionals will probably get voted in in the next election.

 

[kakowi]

Imagine.

This young team, daring to take on MM LKY and yet speaking so much sense, will sweep the singaporean electorate off their feet.

The newly minted singaporeans, who are well-qualified, will at least listen to them.


Imagine.

This young team, after getting all the publicity, visits the other GRCs in support of other oppositions.

This will generate crowds.

And if they speak good sense again, the other opposition members will ride on their coattails.


If they can carry it off, it may change the perceptions of opposition significantly and substantially.

 

[chewed]

Fully concur with you. I'm surprised that a few are still not familiar with the parliamentary system that you have to be an MP first to become a PM. If LKY and LHL are not returned, they will just elect another from those who got it -normally the one with highest votes has the prerogative of being chosen. LKY and LHL do not lose their PAP CEC status just because they lost the seat in parliament, as that is a Party matter, so these two jokers can still rule from outside Parliament, and use the PM as proxy. Comprenez?

kingrant,

i was the one the raised the issue whether LHL or LKY can be PM witout being MP. Just like the Voting is a right, not previlege, it's not stated explicitly. our constituaiton has been amended so many times that a square is beginning to look like a circle.

 

[chewed]

It would be better to trigger infighting and bickering amongst the PAP upper echelons following a poorer showing in the GE results or the shock capture of a GRC rather than heading straight for LKY's Tanjong Pagar heartland with a 'suicide' opposition team.

As for the suggestion for a total boycott strategy by others; that is a pure waste of effort. The world will not interfere nor do they care if a govt has used unfair election practices. Even if they do care or interfere in the form of economic pressures/sanctions etc, who suffers more? Will LKY and his elites suffer grieviously or the common lesser mortals?

The purpose of world pressure/sanctions is to weaken the oppressive regime concerned so that the masses can rise up to topple it. If the majority of the citizens continue to support their govt, then such measures are useless.

yes, those that call for boycott obviously still dun get it....

 

[Sideswipe]

yes, those that call for boycott obviously still dun get it....

but will Singaporeans cared if the oppositions boycott the elections 43 years from the last boycott.

I don't know. The peasants would be indifferent like last time. Then I have to say maybe we really deserve it ( PAP single party rule ) since the population doesn't care at all.

maybe it's time for us to give up too.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

Your view of Tanjong Pagar might be correct assuming its old Tanjong Pagar SMC, but Tanjong Pagar GRC subsumes chunks of holland, bukit timah, and housing estates with vastly differing demographics then the original Tanjong Pagar SMC. The ground has changed under LKY's watch and he is now part of the change because of that ohhh so beautiful GRC scheme.



Locke

 

[snrcitizen]

This sort of mentality was best displayed by Yaw of WP who revealed in his blog why he voted for the PAP and why he asked his mother to vote for the PAP and never ever conceded that it was a mistake - shocking one at that. If Yaw who worked with 2 major political parties can't understand the equation, the man in the street can't.

As mentioned, if this wide spread mentality prevails, PAP will retain complete rule for more generations to come. Then Singaporeans deserve to suffer for what they have chosen.