WP's Managing Agent's issue

[3_M]

Dear GMS

MA Fee's and contracts are not standard. MA fee's are a function of responsibility what is managed by the MA and what is not. Why pay someone to do it when you can do it yourself and save costs is your repeated question.

The answer is the perenial contractor issue. Why does a contractor earn a profit but subs out most of his work ? Why are u paying him ?




Locke

If we look at it in a simple way, it like asking why do we choose to eat at the hawker centre when we can cook ourselves? Why are we paying the hawker when we can save the money?

It is to save us the hassle of going to the market to buy the ingredients, to prepare the food and wash the dishes. Time and trouble save enable us to spent on other more productive and meaningful purpose.

In the corporate world, the principle is the same. Companies outsource some functions to enable them to free up more resources.

 

[mei mei]

- question answered

 

[mei mei]

In Page 25 of Aljunied-Hougang's TC report, the figure of $3,827,113 Managing Agent fee is derived. However, nothing indicates that the fee was for 8.5 months.

Why then the PAP say it was for 8.5 months and why Sylvia Lim did not object when the figure 8.5 months is quoted?

 

[aurvandil]

Further the previous posting, the AIM transaction which started it all is good empirical evidence for why the PAP TCs are not being fiscally prudent. They spend large sums of money to develop a software. They then sell it for very low prices and lease it back to use. Despite the public outcry, they have repeated this process in their latest tender. WP on the other hand leveraged on their existing software to provide services when AIM terminated their license. While there were some initial problems, the transition seems to have worked. This was done at a fraction of the cost the PAP TCs are spending on their new software.

Extending this to other services, it becomes easy to see why the PAP TCs have to charge more S&C even though they are reportedly paying their MAs less. Because of increased efficiency, the higher fees WP are paying appear justified.

This argument is the same one the PAP has used for years to justify why their pay must be so much higher than other world leaders. While there isn't much evidence to support the PAP's claims, there is at least evidence of lower S&C charges to support WP paying more to their MA.

Dear Aurvandil,

I too observe such discrepancy. However, this is not a good indicator. MA fees indicate how resources are used or profits transferred while S&C indicates cost to residents. One can be populist by reducing S&C but transferred most contracts to kaki while reducing spending on other places...

If AHTC as problem with S&C collections as reported while paying higher MA fees while reducing S&C charges, money must come from somewhere or some spending must be compromised or that, Sinking Fund affected... It may not be a good sign at all.


Goh Meng Seng

 

[zhihau]

You must always remember WP is the choice you want to choose to replace PAP one day.

that's why me is always in favor of a coalition government! then again, they can collaborate, can't they?

 

[tanwahp]

Why then the PAP say it was for 8.5 months and why Sylvia Lim did not object when the figure 8.5 months is quoted?

Depends on which "PAP" you are talking about. Khaw and Teo are not some anonymous Facebook page selling themselves as fabrication countering channel by coming up with fabrications themselves.

 

[WongMengMeng]

1. Second time I'm trying to disabuse WMM of his delusion that Locke is a lawyer hailing from the AG's Chambers

To what do I owe the pleasure of 2 unsolicited offers from an anonymous internet moniker? Please, I ain't gonna believe you simply 'cos you said so, just as Sinkies shouldn't believe that it takes 50 man years to do the books just 'cos somebody important said so.

2. In an anonymous online forum, anyone and everyone can be a PAP agent. Or WP IB or SDP IB. Take your pick.

The monikers may be anonymous, but what they wrote leaves a paper trail - evidence - from which other secondary facts can be inferred or at least the various probabilities narrowed. It is not as random as you seem to imply. Nice Jedi mind trick.

Readers are encouraged to click on the below links, read carefully and come to their own conclusion:

http://sammyboy.com/showthread.php?...ockeLiberal-Case-FIXED!&p=1500569#post1500569 - posts #1 and #2

http://sammyboy.com/showthread.php?...y!-His-Nick-is-LockeLiberal-Case-FIXED!/page3 - post #44

http://sammyboy.com/showthread.php?151207-Political-Implications-of-6-9-Protests/page5 - posts #86 to #90

All similar unsolicited offers made without tendering NEW evidence or perspectives will be dealt with in the same manner regardless of which internet moniker makes it or how "old bird" he thinks he is. I suggest all forummers take a similar attitude.

BTW, didn't you agree with GD that LTK and CSJ were PAP agents, even as I was expressing my doubts to GD about his assessment?

Why can't Sinkies see that this is just another way of playing the "divide and rule" game by sowing discord and confusion in the ranks of the other side?

 

[yellowarse]

To what do I owe the pleasure of 2 unsolicited offers from an anonymous internet moniker? Please, I ain't gonna believe you simply 'cos you said so, just as Sinkies shouldn't believe that it takes 50 man years to do the books just 'cos somebody important said so.

Okay, point taken.

GMS is the only non-anonymous contributor here. He has already vouched for Locke's identity in another thread. Good enough for you?

 

[Seee3]

I am quite amused by the discussions on whether is there a need for MA and those comparisons made with regard to their prices. We seems to believe that $8 will give good profit. My little knowledge tells me that it may not be so. If you have a few grc, you may just survive but with just one, it is tough. MA make profit through other means; not from sc cc. Sc cc is a thankless tedious job that ma must shoulder in order to have access to more lucrative works.

 

[mei mei]

Depends on which "PAP" you are talking about. Khaw and Teo are not some anonymous Facebook page selling themselves as fabrication countering channel by coming up with fabrications themselves.

Walau, so many different "PAP", politics is surely dirty.

 

[mei mei]

MA make profit through other means; not from sc cc.

Can't think of any other source of income for the MA other than sc cc. Can you provide an example of what this other means is?

 

[WongMengMeng]

Okay, point taken.

GMS is the only non-anonymous contributor here. He has already vouched for Locke's identity in another thread. Good enough for you?

Why should it be good enough for me?

1. I have never met GMS. It takes a long time to really know somebody. Three months' probation may be long enough to be confirmed for a job, but certainly not long enough to be considered for promotion and a handshake and smile means absolutely nothing.

2. GMS has been accused, not without reason in my opinion, for himself being a PAP agent. Just because someone is not anonymous on the internet does not mean he can be trusted. It is a PAP tactic to discredit the internet - see all these Oppo supporters are hiding behind internet nicks whereas this joker who supports us is known to all and sundry. They forgot to tell you that all these Oppo supporters are hiding behind internet nicks 'cos of ISA, Sedition Act, blah, blah, blah, whereas if you are a PAP agent, maybe a nice unmortgaged property is waiting for you somewhere.

3. I asked for new evidence and perspectives, you offered none.

4. Just 'cos some internet nick claims he is from SDP, WP, etc does not necessarily mean that it is true. Somewhere down the line, when his credibility is more or less established, he will say something that can be picked up by his PAP IB teammates (who may themselves claim to be from SDP, WP, etc) and used to discredit whatever party he claims he is from. Just as the National CONversation can be orchestrated, so can an internet CONversation.

5. Bottom line is - don't believe anything just 'cos somebody says so. When you buy a car, you kick the tires, do a test drive, etc. The same applies for everything you read on the Shit Times or internet - CAVEAT EMPTOR, let the buyer beware.

 

[Seee3]

Can't think of any other source of income for the MA other than sc cc. Can you provide an example of what this other means is?

Move around hdb estates and look at the big sign boards where there are upgrading or major repair works. Focus on the name of the contractor or contract manager. You will see familiar companies

 

[zhihau]

You will see familiar companies

the TC sinking funds which are used for investments, who approves them?

 

[cass888]

I am surprised no one has pointed out the most obvious discrepancy for this storm in a teacup. If MA fees of PAP TCs are so low, why then are the S&C charges of PAP TCs HIGHER than those of the WP TCs?

Because you can be populist, run the reserves to the ground (or not accumulate any reserves) and leave the shit for your successors to solve.

 

[mei mei]

MA make profit through other means; not from sc cc. Sc cc is a thankless tedious job that ma must shoulder in order to have access to more lucrative works.

Move around hdb estates and look at the big sign boards where there are upgrading or major repair works. Focus on the name of the contractor or contract manager. You will see familiar companies

Wouldn't any upgrading/repair work is an expense for the MA and not income? Not unless, you are saying that the MA is also the contractor doing the upgrading/repair work and thus the MA will be paid for the work done.

Is this upgrading or major repair works that you referred to for the same TC that the MA is managing? If it is, does it makes sense for the MA to put out upgrading/repair work and then to do that upgrading/repair work himself?

 

[Seee3]

the TC sinking funds which are used for investments, who approves them?

I dont know. Anyway, I don't think MA manages the sinking fund. I had a friend who was working with a MA and he had complained of the cut throat tender price which is why I think the current price is very low. No ideal on how sinking fund is managed.

 

[mei mei]

Why should it be good enough for me?

1. I have never met GMS. It takes a long time to really know somebody. Three months' probation may be long enough to be confirmed for a job, but certainly not long enough to be considered for promotion and a handshake and smile means absolutely nothing.

Goh Meng Seng is not just a real person but a public figure. As a public person and one possibly seeking election in the future, he has to be careful on what he say here. For that, his words carried some weight and his views are respected, whether good or bad.

 

[3_M]

You either do it or you don't.

This is the PAP's problem. While it claims that the TC system will put MPs to the test but the fact is that most of PAP TCs employed MA and now, WP also followed suit. Thus, TC system has failed one of its most important aim of measuring "abilities" of MPs, be it PAP or opposition.

Granted, even if TCs are not run by MA, one could still employ good estate managers to do the job. The variations will lie in the distribution of resources in minor improvement.

The reason against MA running TCs is of economic values. For WP's case, apparently there is no competitive edge in employing a MA like FMSS and it will definitely cost more. Thus, in the interests of residents, it should not be done so.

Goh Meng Seng

You are like someone who tried to teach others how to play golf when you never even step into golf course.

 

[yellowarse]

Goh Meng Seng is not just a real person but a public figure. As a public person and one possibly seeking election in the future, he has to be careful on what he say here. For that, his words carried some weight and his views are respected, whether good or bad.

Well said. Much much more weight than phantom lawyers and anonymous internet monikers.