How to reduce income inequality in Singapore

[blur sotong]

What about those lacking in ability and contribution? Do you subscribe to the Leongsam-ist notion that they should starve?

That would be very cruel.

Wonder what will Leongsam think then, when one day (touch wood) he is on his bed needing help and can't do things on his own? So he just do the japanese style and finished it off before he reached that state?

What if it is a sudden stroke and he can't even execute that hara kiri?

Example only hor... boss no get angry pls.

 

[blur sotong]

We have every right to question if that person is the right man for the job, especially when many clues seem to point that he is not suitable for the job.

The PAP however is different from the fireman in your example. They may not do it for the right reasons, but they have put out the fires as they should, never mind if they ruin all your furniture to get it done.

Isn't job creation something Singaporeans want the government to do? Despite the PAP's nefarious intentions, they have created so many jobs in Singapore! Now isn't that something?

Now that Singapore is leagues ahead of regional basketcases, shouldn't we reward our brave leaders, clever bureaucrats and their kinsmen the privilege of taking it easy?

Hey, what about the GRC back door entry? Voters can't just vote him/her out without voting the rest.

Think of "I don't know what to say" and Kate Spade.

As for your last part, no Sir, it is the team's effort. Everybody plays a role collectively Sir. So income inequality cannot be so wide.

 

[blur sotong]

I am 100% against inequity but it is not easy to measure and define. Therefore we still need to fall back on inequality and specify what amount of inequality is acceptable.

I am actually agreeable to Cruxx's view that one of the key objectives is to eradicate poverty and we have to set that first. I think we should leave FT out of this as the S$ that they bring home is worth PPP much more than we Sinkie enjoy. We need a different mechanism to control that.

The rest we have to adjust on a relative basis and it has to be done across the board. A lot of the changes have to be done indirectly e.g. How can you determine private sector salaries? Mind you, GLCs are also private sector but at least the Govt can control that. But again to maintain equity, it cannot move too far off from the rest of the private sector.

The whole thing is quite complex really, involving a re-look at property prices, car prices, so called "subsidies" and other big ticket items that affect the individual's cost of living and companies' cost of operation. All these must be set, or at least the desired levels determined early, before we can set PM and Ministerial salaries to maintain equity. As we have to set salaries for the posts rather than for the persons, the political system will also have to be changed to allow for an easier way to throw out a non-performing minister.

This will take a long time, possibly not implementable in one go. So key principles of equity have to be clearly set so that we can move towards the ultimate objective.

Hey Fook Gor, are you an Economist?

 

[blur sotong]

I totally agree with you on this. Nowhere in the Gini coefficient is the low end salary the key contribution to income inequality. The entire area under the Lorentz curve should be adjusted to correct this inequality to be equitable to all.

I will be the first to object that a minister's salary be tied to the lowest salary in the form of a multiple, because it is so easy to manipulate this in an easy and painless way to gain an increase in ministerial salary. Benchmarking it to the median will be a better way as this is a statistic not something you can ordain. This way the Minister and the common people will be in the same boat. l don't get it, you don't it either.

Not mean. Not mode. Just median. Most absolutely indeed.

 

[blur sotong]

Just reduce the FT.
Cut WP/S-pass and EP by half. Then employer will have hard time to find worker they will have to pay more to employ local.

Yes, of course. But who is the biggest employers in Singapore?

Think about those GLCs. Gosh. All self serving interest.

 

[Leongsam]

Example only hor... boss no get angry pls.

That actually happened. Luckily, I made a full recovery through determination and hard work. My physiotherapist was amazed.

 

[blur sotong]

Societies who punish achievers and reward losers perish.

Not necessary. It just reward high achiever less and reward underachievers better.

P/s underachievers =/= losers.

 

[blur sotong]

That actually happened. Luckily, I made a full recovery through determination and hard work. My physiotherapist was amazed.

Wow, boss Sam replied me 1st time... eh, not PLP hor. Just stating fact.

Good on you. Yes, determination is the key. The will to recover.

 

[Fook Seng]

If the lower end thinks that it is not acceptable social unrest will take place naturally.

Proverty eradication has been a key discussion for decades. Lots of NATO.

Of course. Taking care of the lower end is key to maintaining security and something should be done to eradicate poverty. But I would not like to see this in the form of give outs but in real basic salary. Nobody wants to have the psychological stigma of receiving assistance on a long term.

 

[wMulew]

Think of "I don't know what to say" and Kate Spade.

The much malign TPL have have done a really good job to the point that golden girl Nicole Seah gave up. You want really good examples of lousy MPs in GRC, pick one from Aljunied

 

[blur sotong]

Poverty will be eradicated when idiots are eliminated.

Not possible to eliminate children of lesser abilities. We are all born different.

Even with them around, proverty can be much reduced. It is always striving for a better tomorrow for all.

 

[blur sotong]

Of course. Taking care of the lower end is key to maintaining security and something should be done to eradicate poverty. But I would not like to see this in the form of give outs but in real basic salary. Nobody wants to have the psychological stigma of receiving assistance on a long term.

So happy to note that you subscribed to the underlying thinking - "Man are born good".

 

[Fook Seng]

Hey Fook Gor, are you an Economist?

No I am not. The resident economist is GMS.

 

[mojito]

Not mean. Not mode. Just median. Most absolutely indeed.

Median income enough? What if top 51% income keep increasing, bottom 49% keep decreasing? Median income still increase what? Bottom half fall under poverty line how? Still ok?

Some theorists believe that top income earners don't spend enough. They plow back their excess wealth into business investments. When more and more people have less and less money to spend, less business opportunities everywhere. When not enough business opportunities, money goes into speculative asset classes like property. When people already have less money, you make housing expensive, and people don't change their expectations fast enough, the middle class will slave all their lives for a roof over their heads.

That is why Marx said that capitalism plants its own seeds for destruction, and unless government intervenes in this cycle of doom, we will return to the age of feudalism or bloody revolution depending on which one comes first. Pay heed, for the end is nigh!

 

[neddy]

That would be very cruel.

Wonder what will Leongsam think then, when one day (touch wood) he is on his bed needing help and can't do things on his own? So he just do the japanese style and finished it off before he reached that state?

What if it is a sudden stroke and he can't even execute that hara kiri?

Example only hor... boss no get angry pls.

You need Age Care Planning for that.

In OZ, budget AUD$250 per day for next 5 years# for Long Term Care in a High Dependency Care facility. The OZ govt will subsidise $41 per day up to $60,000 max (to be implemented if the current govt win the next election)

# Usually, the dependent will up lorry within 3 years when they turn independent to dependent, but budget 5 years just in case.

The accommodation cost is separate, you need a AUD$2million bond to secure a nursing home that looks like a resort. (again, the OZ govt "promise" no bond if you believe them)

Not for the faint-hearted. I am still waiting for full facts on this Age Care study.

 

[mojito]

You need Age Care Planning for that.

In OZ, budget AUD$250 per day for next 5 years# for Long Term Care in a High Dependency Care facility. The OZ govt will subsidise $41 per day up to $60,000 max (to be implemented if the current govt win the next election)

# Usually, the dependent will up lorry within 3 years, but budget 5 years just in case.

The accommodation cost is separate, you need a AUD$2million bond to secure a nursing home that looks like a resort. (again, the OZ govt "promise" no bond if you believe them)

Not for the faint-hearted.

Sounds like a lot of money to live off your last days. I reckon its not for everyone?

Rest assured, if there is money to be made, the PAP will be doing it soon enough!

 

[cass888]

Why should we rob people of what they earned to reward those who did not earn? So logical you idiots cannot understand. Sam should ban all of you

Not necessary. It just reward high achiever less and reward underachievers better.

P/s underachievers =/= losers.

 

[mojito]

Why should we rob people of what they earned to reward those who did not earn?

To the altruistic, universal brotherhood.

To the Machiavellian, protection.

 

[Leongsam]

Even with them around, proverty can be much reduced. It is always striving for a better tomorrow for all.

I'd like to bring everyone's attention to this article. It's about NZ. This a country where a mother and child who are out of work receive an average of $550 per week in benefits and more if you know how to work the system. There are subsidies and handouts for just about everything. http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/individuals/a-z-benefits/index.html.

That's more than $2200 per month for doing nothing.

They live in homes rented from Housing NZ for less than $35 per week

Yet in this land of milk and honey, they're staging rallies about child poverty? Ask yourself how this can be.

The answer is simple. I have done debt counseling in the poor areas of Auckland. The money is squandered by individuals who make poor choices in life. It wouldn't make any difference if they were given $2500 per month or $5000 per month or even $8000 a month. These characters are humans who are made up of inferior genes and they are incapable of making sound choices.

If they have $300 in their pockets, they'll head to the local dairy to buy $200 worth of lottery tickets, then to the pub for $40 worth of beer and pop into the dairy on the way home again for $20 of ciggies. What's left behind is then used pay a portion of a bill that has been outstanding for 6 months. [I could start talking about the druggies but that's a another story for another day]

Nothing will change them short of death. I gave up counseling a long time ago. I tried to explain the power of compound interest. I told them to buy seedlings so they could grow their own veggies instead of buying shit from McDonalds but they simply can't be bothered to work the soil. It's too hard and too troublesome and they don't want to wait for the seeds to germinate. McDonalds is just across the road so they collect their benefits and head straight there for a big Mac.

When I was in my 20s, I thought like you guys.. poor people are unfortunate.. not given a break... treated unfairly etc. Now with the benefit of living a full life and witnessing and getting involved in the realities of life, I'm a lot more realistic. Some people simply are inferior. There's nothing the rest of the world can do about it.




Rally calls for end to NZ's child poverty

By Kate Shuttleworth K8Shuttleworth Email Kate
5:12 PM Wednesday Oct 17, 2012

Anika Moa performs as part of the rally against child poverty. Photo / Kate Shuttleworth


Singer Anika Moa performed at Parliament grounds today at a rally calling for an end to child poverty as part of international eradication of poverty day.
The rally coincides with Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei's member's bill to transform the in-work tax credit into a child payment for all children from all low-income families.
Ms Moa said she went to school without lunch and grew up in a poor area.
"Obviously I eat now; I've got a fat arse," she said.
"I'm here to support the cause and I think it should have started yesterday, and we should all act now."
Up to 150 people from the Labour, Green and Mana parties, the NZEI, CTU and Service and Food Workers union gathered at Parliament.
Children from Kelburn Normal School's rock band and choir sang.
Ms Turei said it was unacceptable that 270,000 children in New Zealand were living in poverty.
"New Zealand should be a great place to grow up. But thousands of kids don't have the same opportunity that other children have to enjoy a good life and a fair future because their lives are hampered by poverty."
Labour's social welfare spokeswoman Jacinda Ardern said there is political will on ending child poverty.
"Unfortunately there is a complete absence of political will on the part of this Government and I use those words strongly, because you cannot deny the facts."
Child health researcher Dr Nikki Turner said as a GP she had seen a lot of sick children as a result of poverty.
"Our hospitals got busier, our children did worse in their schooling, and our children's emotional outcomes got worse because of poverty.
"Economics and income matters."
She said she supported the transformation of the in-work tax credit to a child payment for low-income families.
Manager of Every Child Counts, Deborah Morris-Travers, said child poverty was a problem for all New Zealanders.
"We see up and down the country the impacts of child poverty, and our research shows that at least $6 billion dollars is spent on picking up the pieces," she said.
By Kate Shuttleworth K8Shuttleworth Email Kate
- APNZ

 

[blur sotong]

Median income enough? What if top 51% income keep increasing, bottom 49% keep decreasing? Median income still increase what? Bottom half fall under poverty line how? Still ok?

Some theorists believe that top income earners don't spend enough. They plow back their excess wealth into business investments. When more and more people have less and less money to spend, less business opportunities everywhere. When not enough business opportunities, money goes into speculative asset classes like property. When people already have less money, you make housing expensive, and people don't change their expectations fast enough, the middle class will slave all their lives for a roof over their heads.

That is why Marx said that capitalism plants its own seeds for destruction, and unless government intervenes in this cycle of doom, we will return to the age of feudalism or bloody revolution depending on which one comes first. Pay heed, for the end is nigh!

Hiya, those thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis... enough said about theories. Lets get practical.

Among the very 1st line of what Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels said in their book "Communist Manifesto" is :

"Workers of the world unite". It is a very thin book. Please read it and understand the background of that book.