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Why Jacky Chan looked older than Bruce Lee?

of course street fight got no rules law ......real life fighting is not fair, it is not clean, it is not sporting and it is for keeps, there are no split decisions, no weight classifications, no penalties and no draws, no referees, times set on how long a round lasts or how many rounds there will be or bells to sound the beginning or ending of rounds. ......street fighting is dirty, when the dust settles one person is the winner, the other could be dead ...by the way can you tell me something that i dont know ;)

You don't seem to know that I don't take fighting as a sport, just a way of settling something that can't be settled verbally.
 
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You don't seem to know that I don't take fighting as a sport, just a way of settling something that can't be settled verbally.

with your mentality ...no wonder there is war ;) .
 
yes...UFC owe that to gracie . which means 5000years of history just kena whack by a 20years UFC ? tell you the truth , that sound kind of crazy to me ...although we know that .


To tell you the truth traditional martial arts and not just chinese ones but world wide didn't really focus on ground take downs. When the opponent was knocked down or lost his balance they would either be kicking him or let him get up again. This is called being gentlemanly. That's why i want to go back to my muay thai comment again. I mentioned that yes some of them learn muay thai but they combine that with a wrestling skill too and not just muay thai they also pratice some boxing. Buakaw doesn't just practice muay thai exclusively.

Actually if you dissect the word mma it means mixed martial arts. It means a combination of martial arts. Ppl that practice traditional martial arts don't hug each other on the ground. In fact they don't do that for all striking sports including boxing. Now a boxer would most likely be taken down in the same manner as the martial artist in that video would you then say boxing is useless or the tradition of boxing is worthless against 20 yrs of mma?

How about pitting a boxer against someone that kicks and then the boxer loses to the person that kicks would it then be said that boxing is useless or just that it wasn't really fair. You see you're using the same logic of comparing mma to the traditional arts that of a boxer not going against another boxer but someone else that can kick and wrestle. Would it be fair for a boxer to fight someone that can kick and wrestle? Doesn't look so.
 
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Another thing i forgot to mention is conditioning. Now practioners of tradtional arts didn't really condition themselves. It was bruce lee that actually emphasized on conditoning which was making sure he's physically fit. Now traditional arts do have their various stances but most of the time was just spent practicing the moves. They didn't really pay too much attention to overall physical fitness. This is very different for boxers for eg and some arts like in muay thai where you don't even see an ounce of fat on the belly of a muay thai fighter. If you watched the rocky movies you would see stallone lifting weights, skipping and so on trying to build more muscles and also improving his speed and hand eye coordination on top of his boxing skills. Traditional artists just practiced skills but didn't really focus on body size and physical strength for eg and overall fitness to ensure they didn't gas out.
 
with your mentality ...no wonder there is war ;) .

It's not about war, that's for SAF. I thought you've been through PA course. If suspect complies, that's alright. If not, then use necessary force.
 
To tell you the truth traditional martial arts and not just chinese ones but world wide didn't really focus on ground take downs. When the opponent was knocked down or lost his balance they would either be kicking him or let him get up again. This is called being gentlemanly. That's why i want to go back to my muay thai comment again. I mentioned that yes some of them learn muay thai but they combine that with a wrestling skill too and not just muay thai they also pratice some boxing. Buakaw doesn't just practice muay thai exclusively.

Actually if you dissect the word mma it means mixed martial arts. It means a combination of martial arts. Ppl that practice traditional martial arts don't hug each other on the ground. In fact they don't do that for all striking sports including boxing. Now a boxer would most likely be taken down in the same manner as the martial artist in that video would you then say boxing is useless or the tradition of boxing is worthless against 20 yrs of mma?

How about pitting a boxer against someone that kicks and then the boxer loses to the person that kicks would it then be said that boxing is useless or just that it wasn't really fair. You see you're using the same logic of comparing mma to the traditional arts that of a boxer not going against another boxer but someone else that can kick and wrestle. Would it be fair for a boxer to fight someone that can kick and wrestle? Doesn't look so.

"When the opponent was knocked down or lost his balance they would either be kicking him or let him get up again. This is called being gentlemanly. "

in UFC or MMA or streetfight when a person is down that is the best time to move in for the kill .


" Actually if you dissect the word mma it means mixed martial arts. It means a combination of martial arts " .

yes mma means mix martial arts but then again in mma mix martial art does not include kungfu move .


"a boxer would most likely be taken down in the same manner as the martial artist in that video would you then say boxing is useless or the tradition of boxing is worthless against 20 yrs of mma "?

of course a good boxer does not mean he is also good in MMA . but when a mma fighter face with a good boxer ..he will try to pin the boxer down and try to take him on the ground ...cant say the same to other martial arts . mma is more versatile compare to other fighting sport and its the closer you can get to streetfights .
 
Actually, historically, there were no martial arts, e.g. like ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt, China etc. All there were just army drills in combat, armed and unarmed. India invented martial arts discipline with stick fighting as unlike ancient Chinese, ancient Indian commoners weren't allowed to be armed with blades.

Dhammo brought that into China on his missionary trip that founded Shaolin Temple. That became the basis of disciplinary martial arts in China. Even styles of wielding bladed weapons like swords, sabres and spears went through overhaul and disciplined schooling. As Buddhisim spread across to Korea and Japan, where like India, commoners weren't allowed to wear bladed weapons, not even carry sticks deemed to be offensive weapons, Taekwondo, Karate etc. developed.
 
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It's not about war, that's for SAF. I thought you've been through PA course. If suspect complies, that's alright. If not, then use necessary force.

i left SPF long time ago . by the way , since you believe that violent can solve problem if cant use verbally ...war is a good example .
 
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"When the opponent was knocked down or lost his balance they would either be kicking him or let him get up again. This is called being gentlemanly. "

in UFC or MMA or streetfight when a person is down that is the best time to move in for the kill .


" Actually if you dissect the word mma it means mixed martial arts. It means a combination of martial arts " .

yes mma means mix martial arts but then again in mma mix martial art does not include kungfu move .


"a boxer would most likely be taken down in the same manner as the martial artist in that video would you then say boxing is useless or the tradition of boxing is worthless against 20 yrs of mma "?

of course a good boxer does not mean he is also good in MMA . but when a mma fighter face with a good boxer ..he will try to pin the boxer down and try to take him on the ground ...cant say the same to other martial arts . mma is more versatile compare to other fighting sport and its the closer you can get to streetfights .

yes therefore it's not really fair to compare martial arts to ufc. traditional arts didn't have take downs. Most were standing skills.

You don't see the comparison do you? If a boxer lost to an mma fighter would you say boxing is a useless skill? A boxer is best fought against another boxer not an mma fighter, same with mma. Also it's not really fair to show a boxer fighting an mma person and then say which fighting style is better. A boxer is limited by just his fists while an mma fighter can use other moves and his 4 limbs but let's say he is facing a young mike tyson. I doubt he could safely take down tyson without getting bashed senseless.
 
....If you watch the famous Fist Of Fury kicking the signboard Chinese & Dogs Not Allowed scene....

The Japanese man whacked by Bruce Lee outside the gate of the botanical gardens in the Fist of Fury movie was Yuen Wah. The many backward somersault scene by Bruce Lee in the movie was actually executed by Yuen Wah. Although Bruce Lee could do the movement by himself, he felt that it could be more beautifuily done by Yuen Wah (like Jacky Chan was trained in Pekin opera). This tells us something about the great man; though extremely proud of his own ability, Bruce Lee was able to acknowledge and appreciate the talent and ability of other people.
 
The Japanese man whacked by Bruce Lee outside the gate of the botanical gardens in the Fist of Fury movie was Yuen Wah. The many backward somersault scene by Bruce Lee in the movie was actually executed by Yuen Wah. Although Bruce Lee could do the movement by himself, he felt that it could be more beautifuily done by Yuen Wah (like Jacky Chan was trained in Pekin opera). This tells us something about the great man; though extremely proud of his own ability, Bruce Lee was able to acknowledge and appreciate the talent and ability of other people.

Thanks. If you scroll back up, you'd see that I posted Yuen Wah as one of the real martial artists too. ;) :)
 
vamjok said:
this video shows the meaning of kinetic chain, its the same principle as wing chun punches

This guy in the video doesn't know his science. The only thing he knows about kinetic energy is that it is power. What he is referring to the coiling of his body is not kinetic energy but rather potential energy that comes with the tightening of the coil.

Kinetic energy involves movement. The larger the movement, the faster the movement and the larger the mass that it carries determine the size of this power. The one-inch punch evidently suffers from the lack of kinetic power even though it could have potential energy in buckets. Same principles apply to a golf swing.
 
yes therefore it's not really fair to compare martial arts to ufc. traditional arts didn't have take downs. Most were standing skills.

You don't see the comparison do you? If a boxer lost to an mma fighter would you say boxing is a useless skill? A boxer is best fought against another boxer not an mma fighter, same with mma. Also it's not really fair to show a boxer fighting an mma person and then say which fighting style is better. A boxer is limited by just his fists while an mma fighter can use other moves and his 4 limbs but let's say he is facing a young mike tyson. I doubt he could safely take down tyson without getting bashed senseless.

i compare martial art to ufc because ufc is the closer we can get to street fights and because im trained in mma . tell you the truth , even mike tyson go in mma ring ...it does not mean he will win in mma thats why until now mike tyson dare not sign the paper and step into ufc cage ( its better to become legend and be idol why risk his boxing title ) . theres alot of fighters dreaming to make it big in ufc or mma sport that included wrestle , muaythai , judo ..ect .
 
i compare martial art to ufc because ufc is the closer we can get to street fights and because im trained in mma . tell you the truth , even mike tyson go in mma ring ...it does not mean he will win in mma thats why until now mike tyson dare not sign the paper and step into ufc cage ( its better to become legend and be idol why risk his boxing title ) . theres alot of fighters dreaming to make it big in ufc or mma sport that included wrestle , muaythai , judo ..ect .


Mike is old already. What i meant was in mike's younger days i doubt a ufc fighter would risk trying to take down mike cos he would risk getting a mean killer punch. Practioners of old martial arts just mostly practiced in 1 art that's why mma is called mixed martial arts cos most ppl pratice a few. Only really fair to pit ppl of traditional arts against mixed martial artists but anyway i'm sure the newer fighters practice a few more arts. Oh yes some of these ufc fighters dope too.
 
i cant help but notice that kung fu practitioners get no respect from mma guys. they're always criticizing kung fu guys for doing forms and having no groundwork and oftentimes, they tend to kick kung fu practitioner ass. my question is, why is this so? with centuries history and hundreds of sifus adding to their arts, wouldn't the hundreds of kung fu styles be able to adapt to the fighting styles of mma guys? or are kung fu guys too limited by mma rules: no groin, eyes, hair?

Good observation.

My impression of MMA exponents is that many of them tend to be arrogant and have little regard for the traditonal arts. This attitude could be due to the following reasons:

Most people's understanding of traditional Chinese martial arts (TCM) comes from the movies and wushu competitions. After watching these, they may think that TCM is about executing spectacular flying kicks and flashy moves or that it is just "flowery punches and silky kicks". Rubbish! The TCM fight scenes in movies are deliberately made flashy to provide a great cinematic experience. Wushu competitions are for the most part, exhibition events for contemporary martial artists. Some moves are watered down or "beautified" to make the performance spectacular. It is thus inevitable that people, especially MMA people, see TCM as "just for show'.

Sanda or Sanshou events are not as well-marketed as MMA bouts. Compared to the latter, in which a variety of techniques can be used, the former is rather restricted in the type of fighting techniques (mainly striking and throwing). People who compare the two are likely to find MMA to be superior because of the repertoire on display. And anyway, Sanda/Sanshou are martial arts modified for fight sports. It is neither TCM nor leitai fights, in which TCM is used.

I believe many MMA people took up one or more traditonal martial arts before they joined a MMA gym. They could have been disillusioned with the training they received when they did TCM. In Sinkieland and probably other countries as well, there is an overemphasis on the belt/grading system, especially in Tae Kwon Do and Karate. (TCM schools use belts for other purposes, such as preventing your trousers from dropping.) The promotion tests in a belt system tests on your ability to perform katas, or set plays, and does not emphasize on the physical or martial aspects of the fighting style. In contrast, MMA people train to win fights, and therefore focus more on physcial training and application of techniques. As a result, the traditional martial arts are “for show” and “pass exams” whereas MMA is the “real thing”.

In TCM, taolu (set play) is used to drill the student in the correct application of techniques and precondition him to execute these in a real fight. Unlike the moves found in MMA and karate, some of the taolu appear to have no real purpose other than just to move your arms around in strange funny patterns. When I first started out in TCM, I was a bit lost myself because the stuff I was learning did not look like anything resembling a block or a strike. It was only after my master demonstrated to me how these seemingly “bo liao” techniques can be used that I realized just how wrong I was. A move can have quite a few ways in which it can be used, and the transition from one to another can be astonishingly fast. Unless you are fortunate enough to be instructed by a real shifu who teaches you the actual applications of the taolu, most of the time you would be struggling to figure out how to use this or that move in a real confrontation.

As if the figuring part is not difficult enough, the practical part is arduous. You need to practise and practise until the execution of the technique is as natural to you as breathing. This requires years of consistant training. Physical training and conditioning are also critical. You can execute your techniques perfectly but if you lack the physical attributes to power these techniques, it is useless. Sadly, many TCM schools today do not focus on physical training beyond leg stretching (for flexibility). This puts the TCM guy at an disadvantage compared to the MMA guy, who is often a gym rat. Of course, constant practice and hard work are also important components of MMA training, but its repertoire is not as extensive as TCM’s, and its moves are obvious (a punch is a punch, a block is a block – no other way). In addition, the results of training in MMA can be seen in a comparatively short time. In TCM, you can train for three years and still be a “beginner”.

MMA is marketed as a fight event for ALL fighters from ALL schools and the winner is considered the BEST. Very American, the last point. Sure enough, fighters from different styles have been competing in the MMA, but most of these fighters participating are not from China and Chinese-speaking countries nor are they TCM exponents. When people point out that the winner in MMA are angmos, and tend to use jujutsu or other forms and TCM exponents suck because they almost never win anything, they forget about statistics. The lack of TCM people in MMA make it unlikely that the winner is going to come from a TCM school. It is simple logic. And MMA fighters train to win in the ring; TCM fighters train to survive a street fight. TCM fighters may be restricted in the type of techniques they can use when they step into the ring or cage or whatever.

MMA fights may be highly competitive events, but they pale in comparison to traditional leitai fights. The former has safety regulations and certain joint locks/chokes and strikes to particular areas are prohibited. Such restrictions often mean that a defeated opponent often escapes crippling or very serious injuries.

In the leitai , there are no rules. You are free to employ whatever attack you like. Any part of an opponent is a legitimate target. Fights end when one opponent is knocked off the stage or beaten so severely he is unable to continue the fight. It is not uncommon for a leitai fight to result in serious injuries or worse.

Kungfu - technically speaking, wushu should be a more appropriate term to describe a puglist's art - exponents are taught to end a fight quickly using the best technique applicable to the situation. (By kungfu exponents, I am referring to those trained in the traditional way/school; I exclude contemporary wushu artists from this consideration.) If a simple front kick to an assailant's knee or shin can end the fight quickly, do it. No need to try to kick his head. All that spectacular moves should be, for the most part, used in performances or practice (if you can kick over a person’s head, you will have no problem kicking him in his chest). A lot that has been written about northern Chinese martial arts using many high kicks and kicking a few times in the air is just BS. All styles/forms of TCM focus on efficiency and effectiveness. The only real differences in “Nanquan” and “Beitui” are that the latter uses kicks or longer strikes more frequently, possibly more circular blocks (this could depend on style), is more ‘space-dependent” and has longer melee weapons. Martial arts principles are the same.

To conclude, MMA fighters should train hard in TCM for a reasonable period of time and under a real master before they open their stupid gobs and criticize.
 
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