Lost Sheep of CHC

<TABLE id=msgUN border=0 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD id=msgUNsubj vAlign=top> Coffeeshop Chit Chat - CHC people still support Kong Hee woh...</TD><TD id=msgunetc noWrap align=right> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"> </TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>kojakbt_89 <NOBR></NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>9:32 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> (1 of 1) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>33925.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>Jun 1, 2010

Churchgoers surprised

<!-- by line -->By Liew Hanqing & Carolyn Quek
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CITY Harvest members were taken by surprise when news that the police were investigating alleged misuse of church funds broke yesterday afternoon.
Media reports of the breaking news quickly led to a flurry of online chatter, including updates on blogs and social networking site Facebook, as well as frequent Twitter updates.
Most of the messages expressed shock at the news of the probe and most said they would pray for the church and its leaders through this 'difficult period'.
Undergraduate Teo Chin Ghee, 21, who has attended the church for the last four years, said she 'never expected' such a probe would take place.
'I trust the leadership of the church. I think they're as transparent as they can be (regarding finances),' she said.
Dr David Lam, 53, a general practitioner who has attended the church for nine years, added that he had absolute confidence in the church's leadership.
He said the church's leaders had always taken good care of its money.
'We were one of the first churches to post all our financial information on our church website. The church is tightly audited and I am confident that nothing fishy will surface from the investigations,' he said.
Some churchgoers, like public relations practitioner Wayne Chan, 31, who has been with the church since 2004, just wanted to be kept in the loop. 'As somebody who has been making regular donations to the church, I just want to know what's going on.'
He added that he welcomed the probe because it meant the truth would come to light. 'If the probe shows that nothing's wrong, we would finally be able to say that we've passed the test. If something is amiss, it's a good opportunity for the church to come clean, move forward and rectify any discrepancies there may be.'
Another 20-year-old churchgoer who wanted to be known as Mr Leong said, however, that he was not surprised by the probe.
He said the church had been involved in other controversies in the past, but had always come out clean.
Being in one of the church's ministries, Mr Leong said he has seen how money collected during church services is handled and believes that every single cent is accounted for.
Mr Leong, who is awaiting national service, said he will not let the probe affect his church attendance.
'There is nothing to worry about. I believe and trust in the leadership of the church,' he said.

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TeeKee said:

Lost sheep are the one who does not believe in the existence of God!

And they have no hope for the future!

Not those who have faith!

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blind faith? :o

I remember when the Renci monk's investigation first began, the reaction from his flock and the some Buddhist were denial and ultra defensive. By the time it came to the horse, young boys, luxury cars and condominiums, they were not nowhere to be seen or heard.

Gullible followers are unable to differentiate between god and charlatans.

I suppose we will have to bear with ultra defensive mode and the hurling accusations for a while.

holier than thou is form created by our own ignorant self. God doesn't need holier thou to defend Him for He is God.

holier thou might need lesser holy to defend him cos holier than thou is the furthest from God.

TeeKee said:

You believed in God?

Which one?

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The God of the Bible, certainly not the one in Jurong West Titanium Complex. The same thing has been happening for centuries. Watch the glorious historic cathedrals of Europe. Where in the Bible did Jesus or any of the prophets teach followers to spend humungous amounts of money and human resources to build such monumental buildings? It's the same with Buddhism. Where in Buddhist scriptures did Buddha teach or ask for such things as palatial temples and gigantic gold statues?

The Jews have been more faithful to the teachings of the testament. Synagogues are never lavish architectural monstrosities. They follow the requirements of the tabernacles as required in the testament only.

The Muslims too, can't be blamed for building palatial mosques when they have the means, and being militant when they feel threatened. Mohammad, unlike Moses, Buddha and Jesus, didn't give up palatial residences and lavish places of worship. He didn't even give up his army. He established Islam through wealth and power on horseback and with sword-in-hand.

TeeKee said:

You believed in God?

Which one?

Click to expand...

this one:
财神

TeeKee said:

Lost sheep are the one who does not believe in the existence of God!

And they have no hope for the future!

Not those who have faith!

Click to expand...

In times like this CHC follower should follow the footstep of Jesus deciples as quoted by Mathew:

Matthew 26:34-35, 55-57, 69-75
34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.
.......
55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Now as we clearly see, Peter did witness the so-called crucifixion event. He was present there. The only thing that saved him from death is his denial that he knew Jesus. Otherwise, he would've got crucified that night.

Deut. 14:24-25: 'If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where Yahveh your God chooses to set His Name is too far away from you when Yahveh your God blesses you, then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which Yahveh your God chooses.'

Deut. 14:26: 'You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires. And there you shall eat in the presence of Yahveh your God and rejoice, you and your household.'

A simple but very serious verse to show that tithe was never about money when it comes to god. Read the whole bible and you will notice, its about the natural food. HIS creation.

Christians who read this verse and brush it aside crosses the line between themselves and god. It is where the sheep and wolve divides.

Ramseth said:

Where in the Bible did Jesus or any of the prophets teach followers to spend humungous amounts of money and human resources to build such monumental buildings?

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2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "These people say, 'The time has not yet come for the LORD's house to be built.' "

3 Then the word of the LORD came through the prophet Haggai: 4 "Is it a time for you yourselves to be living in your paneled houses, while this house remains a ruin?"

5 Now this is what the LORD Almighty says: "Give careful thought to your ways. 6 You have planted much, but have harvested little. You eat, but never have enough. You drink, but never have your fill. You put on clothes, but are not warm. You earn wages, only to put them in a purse with holes in it."

7 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Give careful thought to your ways. 8 Go up into the mountains and bring down timber and build the house, so that I may take pleasure in it and be honored," says the LORD. 9 "You expected much, but see, it turned out to be little. What you brought home, I blew away. Why?" declares the LORD Almighty. "Because of my house, which remains a ruin, while each of you is busy with his own house. 10 Therefore, because of you the heavens have withheld their dew and the earth its crops. 11 I called for a drought on the fields and the mountains, on the grain, the new wine, the oil and whatever the ground produces, on men and cattle, and on the labor of your hands."

haggai

wah lau, this place is like Sunday school now

Tee Kee you motherfucking heathen SOB, don't you even dare use the name of Almighty God for your Devil-worship!

TeeKee said:

You believed in God?

Which one?

Click to expand...

middaydog said:

2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "These people say, 'The time has not yet come for the LORD's house to be built.' "

3 Then the word of the LORD came through the prophet Haggai: 4 "Is it a time for you yourselves to be living in your paneled houses, while this house remains a ruin?"

5 Now this is what the LORD Almighty says: "Give careful thought to your ways. 6 You have planted much, but have harvested little. You eat, but never have enough. You drink, but never have your fill. You put on clothes, but are not warm. You earn wages, only to put them in a purse with holes in it."

7 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Give careful thought to your ways. 8 Go up into the mountains and bring down timber and build the house, so that I may take pleasure in it and be honored," says the LORD. 9 "You expected much, but see, it turned out to be little. What you brought home, I blew away. Why?" declares the LORD Almighty. "Because of my house, which remains a ruin, while each of you is busy with his own house. 10 Therefore, because of you the heavens have withheld their dew and the earth its crops. 11 I called for a drought on the fields and the mountains, on the grain, the new wine, the oil and whatever the ground produces, on men and cattle, and on the labor of your hands."

haggai

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Good quotes. Fully appreciated. A house for God to honour God.

I seriously doubt if Kong Hee expected his followers to be banglah and build the church from scratch like what Haggai told the people of what God expected from them..

Money is so much more convenient, especially when it is so easy to take a dip once in a while in the cookie jar and record it as "Admin Expenses".

middaydog said:

7 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Give careful thought to your ways. 8 Go up into the mountains and bring down timber and build the house, so that I may take pleasure in it and be honored," says the LORD.

haggai

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A Judge's Dilemma

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 0cm" vAlign=top>In a small town, a person decided to open up a brothel, which was right opposite to a church. The church and its congregation started a campaign to block the brothel from opening with petitions and prayed daily against his business.

Work progressed. However, when it was almost complete and was about to open a few days later, a strong lightning struck the brothel and it was burnt to the ground.

The church folks were rather smug in their outlook after that, till the brothel owner sued the church authorities on the grounds that the church through its congregation and prayers was ultimately responsible for the destruction of his brothel, either through direct or indirect actions or means.

In its reply to the court, the church vehemently denied all responsibility or any connection that their prayers were reasons for the act of God. As the case made it way into court, the judge looked over the paperwork at the hearing and commented:

‘I don’t know how I’m going to decide this case, but it appears from the paperwork, we have a brothel owner who believes in the power of prayer and we have an entire church that doesn’t.‘

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Ramseth said:

Good quotes. Fully appreciated. A house for God to honour God.

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U are right. Jesus did not instruct, nor Paul, that xtians have to spent humongous sums on church buildings to worship God.

Using Haggai to justify building a lavish n expensive place of worship runs counter to Paul's words that a xtian's body is now a temple where the spirit of god dwells (1 Cor3:16). There are numerous exhortations to take care of this bodily temple, not a physical place.

The model of an expensive place of worship has been abandoned since 70AD when the 2nd Temple was destroyed.