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WP Role Re-think?

Dreamer1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Do you know what the whole party is concentrated on now....???

despite all your connection, you are obviously out of touch of wat the core members are concern with....

542177_458383287556224_561363141_n.jpg




every 1 is focus on doing well for big show tmr, so exciting and nervous
pls do not say WP is nt doing anything....

every 1 spend so much time rehearsing
Brother Borcoli,thank you so much for those nice pictures,it is exciting to look at our real respresentatives (vs false ones from PAP).
brother scroobal,I believe that WP has to take a more active role now that the gate of hell has been opened,it is up to them to kick those PAP fuckers into hell now,I know very well that the Lord of hell is waiting rather anxiously for them to come and account for their kama,the year of 2013 new year after 21 Dec 2012 renewel,God bless,amen.

Mara, Lord of Death -- About the Buddhist Demon Mara
buddhism.about.com/od/iconsofbuddhism/a/mara.htm -
 

metalmickey

Alfrescian
Loyal
I know that I said what I said on the other thread. But I remember thinking right after GE 2011: first thing is to ensure re-election in Aljunied Hougang, and the most basic issue is to run the town council properly. Once you have run the first town council well, it is not such a stretch to run a second or a third.

The lack of substantive policy making is obviously a concern, but policy making will only matter after the PAP loses their supermajority, and it is a long term issue. There are no lack of willing and able people on the fringes. The fact that Alex Au has put his neck out can be interpreted in any of two ways:

1. Why should dealing with national issues be "outsourced" to people like Alex Au when the WP has to take up the cudgel?
or
2. Why should WP need to deal with national issues with other people can fight the PAP?

The WP can work as a co-driver at some point in the future, when the municipal issues are done and dusted. However, the longer we have to wait for that, the bigger a problem it will be for the WP.
 

Dreamer1

Alfrescian
Loyal
I know that I said what I said on the other thread. But I remember thinking right after GE 2011: first thing is to ensure re-election in Aljunied Hougang, and the most basic issue is to run the town council properly. Once you have run the first town council well, it is not such a stretch to run a second or a third.

The lack of substantive policy making is obviously a concern, but policy making will only matter after the PAP loses their supermajority, and it is a long term issue. There are no lack of willing and able people on the fringes. The fact that Alex Au has put his neck out can be interpreted in any of two ways:

1. Why should dealing with national issues be "outsourced" to people like Alex Au when the WP has to take up the cudgel?
or
2. Why should WP need to deal with national issues with other people can fight the PAP?

The WP can work as a co-driver at some point in the future, when the municipal issues are done and dusted. However, the longer we have to wait for that, the bigger a problem it will be for the WP.
Brother
(1)Both TCs under WP are running well despite the demonic actions by the FORCE OF Darkness-PAP .credit to WP MPs for their efforts to swim against a giant waterfall.
(2)LTK is where he is because of his sharp eyes,just compared him to our old-timer brother Goh MS,you get the instant impression of what this is,as the comparision is just too glaring.
(3)There is no question of "OUTSOURCE",you may be too good in your MBA,but we are just here bacause we like to,they love to,in fact,LTK did not ask for this help,but it is just a trend,see where is the 88 years old hero now?he no longer has any place in our enlightened society,he is DEAD there and HERE.

But I do agree with Brother Scroobal that it is now time for further action,in my words,to send those fucking PAP members to HELL where the LORD of KAMA is waiting for them specially.Cheers,God bless.Amen
 
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methink

Alfrescian
Loyal
Kudos to Alex Au. He demonstrated the point I have been trying to make. One good SDP parliamentarian is effectively better than 8 or 18 quiet wankers in parleement.

Score 1 - 0

Alex Au 1
All 8 members of WP Parliamentary Team 0
 
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Dreamer1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Kudos to Alex Au. He demonstrated the point I have been trying to make. One good SDP parliamentarian is effectively better than 8 or 18 quiet wankers in parleement.

Brother Methink,Alex Au is on a God given mission,we should see the REAL Alex Au real soon,God bless,amen
啟示錄4:背著陽光的向日葵——同性戀族群
  地球位於娑婆世界的時候,在太極天盤的運作下,必須有正反兩種力量同時在運行著。就像時鐘的齒 輪,大齒輪向順時針轉,小齒輪向逆時針轉,這樣時鐘才能運作,宇宙的天盤也是這樣的結構;地球在宇宙中進化時,有『正轉』相對也有『反轉』,就像白天、晚 上一樣,同性戀族群就是那肩負著重任、扮演背著陽光的向日葵這種角色。
  同性戀族群的人內心很接近上帝,個性很仁慈又有藝術的天份,這樣的族群有他們的使命,他們就像龍 華樹上的樹枝,為了要讓那些葉子、花朵照到陽光,自己卻得扮演背著陽光的角色。隨著地球進入黃金世界的空間,我們即將脫離太極天盤的法則,屆時世界就會向 著同一個方向,反方向的人也會同步了,同性戀族群會把頭轉向陽光,一切會變的很好。
  他們在陽光照不到的那一面,心理、生理承受的壓力比一般人還更大,我們更要用寬容的心來看待他 們。未來的黃金世界是不分男女的大愛,同性戀族群也會提昇,他們的愛昇華成精神、心靈的層次,也會脫下他們扮演的角色,回到他們本來面目。在這個時候,每 一個背對著陽光的向日葵終於可以向著陽光,和其他花朵開的一樣燦爛、美麗了!(取自簸箕宇宙網『妲妲開示錄』)
  所有背著陽光的向日葵都能轉向陽光,讓他們生活在光亮的陽光下。設定100%的轉向成功。
http://amaminamidada.com/content/amarevelation1.html
BTW,Brother u old timer here,the date to remember is, 12-12-2012 at 04:17 PM. 13,369,get some money if u need,God bless,amen
 
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Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Dear Scroobal,

You are strange and weird. When I put up the facts of criticisms, you question me on why I did it. Now in a different breathe, you are just practically implying the same thing here.

I would just say, don't put too much hope here. WP would rather put 3 months of effort to prepare a musical show in the effort to raise funds for their HQ instead of fine tuning their political operations... the irony is that, even when the report cards of their Town Management is below par, corporate management reports not submitted, they would still put priority in some non-core business in putting up that musical for fund raising.

Apparently there is some misplaced priority somewhere.

It is really an irony that when WP people and apologists were giving the excuse that ground work and TC management is of utmost importance, it turns out that even for the TC management report card, they got red marks. While there are legitimate concerns on the apparent glaring conflict of interests in the AIM saga, but I guess it is only made used to act as a means of smokescreen of politicking distractions. If AIM issue is so important to WP, why didn't they raise it at the very first instance but wait more than 1 year later?

On top of that, I cannot see how, the AIM saga could affect the running of Aljunied TC so much when the issue of software migration and transfer have been done since Sept 2011. How could this issue affect the performance of AHTC for the whole year of 2012? So much so that they could not produce the report on corporate governance on time?

Yes, PAP is throwing smokescreen and indulging in politicking, but WP is as guilty of such as well.

I believe, you can only do one thing well at any one time. WP hasn't got its house and acts together in TC management, basic political education (oh dear, buying votes for HDB upgrading by using lucky draw?) and training on ethics (no more plagiarism please!), we should not expect it to get itself involved in the larger plot and role of policy debates unless you want another Mx 9 kind of blunders.

As I have said, WP should get its house in order first, get its priority right first, before it should move forward, to get more seats. Well, from the party's perspective, getting another seat may be important for their BIG plans on buying their multimillion HQ shophouse as there would be additional monetary contributions from the new MP if it is won, but seriously, would it be good for the democratic process?

Goh Meng Seng


As the social media and Alex Au in particular carries the country's load in the latest crisis and ironically on a matter that involves WP's constituency and TC, one has to wonder what WP think its role is in contemporary politics both in the local and in the international sense under the Westminster Model.

Ptader has also raised the same issue and I think it is time for WP to step back and seriously re-consider (1) the role of an elected parliamentarian, (2)the role of a political party that is in parliament and more (3) importantly a party that is the official designated opposition under the Westminster model. In essence there are 3 distinct roles that need to be examined critically with previous perceived or existing role remit wiped clean.

The party is the oldest after the PAP, has contested numerous electons, has had luminaries and established identities such as Marshall, JBJ and recently LTK. So we are not talking about a bunch of new babes in the woods. There is history. WP has also being in Parliament intermittently since the historic win in 1981 and uninterrupted since 1991. That is 2 decades of residency.

They now have 6 plus 2 representatives in Parliament. They have an energetic and relatively big support base of members, supporters and volunteers. They seemed to have nailed the formula of grassroots engagement that gets it seats in parliament.

The role that they are struggling is that of a co-driver which they themselves have defined. Frankly I don't think we have seen the co-driver for sometime. Some of you must have also realised that the Salary Review Committee met 7 times only and conveniently used the WP's submission to the committee as the base model. It must have been the most spectacular piece of self-ambush in living memory.

What do you guys think? This in no way suggest that PAP is a better and should be brought back. What we need is for WP to step, move away from property management and grassroot activities and move to handle the primary role that they were elected for.

At the end of the day, all 8 members of WP Parliamentary Team need to ask themselves as they get the first sip of morning coffee on Sunday, is Alex Au doing the job of all 8 with no renumeration received at his end.

At the ultimate irony is the AIMs saga is a property management issue involving residents' fund. A core competency of the WP amongst all the roles.
 

brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Scroobal,

Yes, PAP is throwing smokescreen and indulging in politicking, but WP is as guilty of such as well.

I believe, you can only do one thing well at any one time. WP hasn't got its house and acts together in TC management, basic political education (oh dear, buying votes for HDB upgrading by using lucky draw?) and training on ethics (no more plagiarism please!), we should not expect it to get itself involved in the larger plot and role of policy debates unless you want another Mx 9 kind of blunders.

Goh Meng Seng

the only person taking potshots and politicking nonstop is you....

if anything, PTRADER and scroobal are saying that WP need to confront the PAP more...
WP has a sense of resignation regarding the unjust treatment, if they publicise every injustice suffered... they will not get any work done...

you know it very well

and my impression of LTK is he is a very pratical person... he do not like to politicise for the sake of publicity
 

wwabbit

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The Town Council Management Report is widely known to be politically motivated. One must wonder about Mr Goh Meng Seng's motives on why he is using the same report to attack the Worker's Party.

Mr Goh Meng Seng questions why the people who have been working on the "Bricks in Blue" fundraiser event were not working on improving the Town Council instead. Of course, the people working on the fundraiser event are volunteers for the Worker's Party while the people working in the Town Council are the Town Council employees.

Now, the Town Council Management Report that Mr Goh Meng Seng loves so much points out to two points of concerns for the Aljunied Hougang Town Council. The first one is with S&CC Arrears, and the second is with Corporate Governance. The Corporate Governance matter is in the hands of the auditors, I'm not sure how Mr Goh Meng Seng intends to make the Worker's Party volunteers from the fundraiser help the auditors out... serve them coffee and tea maybe while they go through the records?

Now, the S&CC Arrears thing has always been an issue for the opposition parties. If you check all the past reports, Hougang and Potong Pasir has always received the lowest score for this category. Now, there are a few ways of improving your S&CC Arrears score. You can send runners to bang on the doors of the residents that owe money demanding them to O$P$. You can sue them in court to recover fees, possibly sue them for bankruptcy too. You can write lots of warning letters to them. You could maybe get them kicked out of their HDB flats. I think most people can see that the opposition parties have been falling behind in this area because they are generally made up of people more compassionate than the people running the Town Councils for PAP. Mr Goh Meng Seng however, seem to imply that the people who helped put together the fundraiser should instead spend their time terrorizing the needy people living in their HDB flats who are facing problems paying their Town Council fees.

It all really boils down to two issue: Running a Town Council and Running a Fundraiser is not mutually exclusive. You can do both with two different groups of people with a couple of people overseeing both. Mr Goh Meng Seng's attempt to make both mutually exclusive is not ridiculous and irrationally, and one has to wonder what his motives are for making this ineffectual attack.
 

SgParent

Alfrescian
Loyal
...WP would rather put 3 months of effort to prepare a musical show in the effort to raise funds for their HQ instead of fine tuning their political operations... the irony is that, even when the report cards of their Town Management is below par, corporate management reports not submitted, they would still put priority in some non-core business in putting up that musical for fund raising.

Apparently there is some misplaced priority somewhere.

It is really an irony that when WP people and apologists were giving the excuse that ground work and TC management is of utmost importance, it turns out that even for the TC management report card, they got red marks. While there are legitimate concerns on the apparent glaring conflict of interests in the AIM saga, but I guess it is only made used to act as a means of smokescreen of politicking distractions. If AIM issue is so important to WP, why didn't they raise it at the very first instance but wait more than 1 year later?
...

Goh Meng Seng


Wrote so much rubbish. Who gives a damn about that TC report fully covered with White Scums' crap? Only fake 40% like you do.

No wonder you could never win an election. Ever. Not even an ONLINE one.

All I know is my Hougang estate is comparable to the neighboring ones and my S&CC is lower.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
I would like think that mine is constructive criticism. Yours on the other and even in the comment below is far from it.


Dear Scroobal,

You are strange and weird. When I put up the facts of criticisms, you question me on why I did it. Now in a different breathe, you are just practically implying the same thing here.

I would just say, don't put too much hope here. WP would rather put 3 months of effort to prepare a musical show in the effort to raise funds for their HQ instead of fine tuning their political operations... the irony is that, even when the report cards of their Town Management is below par, corporate management reports not submitted, they would still put priority in some non-core business in putting up that musical for fund raising.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
"Pointing to the fact that the WP, using a different way of deriving pay, has settled on more or less the same base salary number, he said this supported his stance on doing away with the benchmark" This is the MX9 proposal for Ministers x 5 time for Ministers which came to $55K a month. How do you think the committee came to $55K, exact figure that WP proposed.

What WP submission to salary review committee? WP was criticized for not submitting and for proposing their model only when parliament discuss committee's recommendations. What self ambush, what spectacular piece of shit? You are talking through your ass.
 

wwabbit

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Of course, the part that everybody conveniently leaves out is that the WP's proposal calls for maximum 1 month bonus, while the committee's proposal quietly writes 5 month bonus.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
"When we strip away the rhetorical wrapping and take a closer look, the WP's proposals are in fact based on the same set of principles, have taken into account pragmatic considerations, have resulted in salaries that are at about the same general level, and have the same structural features of fixed and variable bonuses (though in different proportions), as what the Committee has proposed."

Most people struggle to follow what transpired. In essence, the final take home was the same.

Of course, the part that everybody conveniently leaves out is that the WP's proposal calls for maximum 1 month bonus, while the committee's proposal quietly writes 5 month bonus.
 

cunnilaubu

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
It all really boils down to two issue: Running a Town Council and Running a Fundraiser is not mutually exclusive. You can do both with two different groups of people with a couple of people overseeing both. Mr Goh Meng Seng's attempt to make both mutually exclusive is not ridiculous and irrationally, and one has to wonder what his motives are for making this ineffectual attack.

Great retort, bro....:smile:
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Town Council Management Report, whether you like it or not, is the report book of every town councils.There are also PAP TC getting not so nice report as well. If you really think this is "politically motivated", then please tell WP to boycott it. However, it seems that WP don't really conclude like what you did, "politically motivated". This report has been more or less fair, to opposition run TCs in the past years. If it is not, you will surely hear from LTK complaining about it to the press or parliament.

You cannot just put labels on anything just because it is not favourable to you.

You are assuming that volunteers and WP members do not contribute to the well being of the TC. Well, so be it. I won't teach you what can be done with more resources. But, who are the performers? MPs included, right? MPs sit on the board of management! Here again, you are just pushing all the responsibility to those who work for Town Council... which is only half right. Not that I agree with the present system and arrangement of getting MPs to run TC but at this moment, the MPs are expected to make sure that the TC is run properly. It is quite convenient to push all responsibilities to the TC staffs if anything went wrong... I hope that is not going to be the attitude if WP come into power and if there is anything wrong, it is just those people working in the Ministry fault, not your WP ministers!

Up till now, we are not told on WHY is the audit has missed the deadline. I do not think you have the best creative mind to deal with S&C arrears... here again, I am not going to help you out with that.

The truth is, a public performance will suck precious energies from the MPs as well as volunteers and members alike... for 2 or 3 months. I have put up stage performance before and I know what is expected for the preparations. You may think that your MPs are super men and woman but from the lackluster performance, I do not think so. It is better for them to focus and concentrate on their core business first before they start to get distracted by such non-core business. Unless, of course, you believe the party comes first, other things, even public interests, come last.

Goh Meng Seng





The Town Council Management Report is widely known to be politically motivated. One must wonder about Mr Goh Meng Seng's motives on why he is using the same report to attack the Worker's Party.

Mr Goh Meng Seng questions why the people who have been working on the "Bricks in Blue" fundraiser event were not working on improving the Town Council instead. Of course, the people working on the fundraiser event are volunteers for the Worker's Party while the people working in the Town Council are the Town Council employees.

Now, the Town Council Management Report that Mr Goh Meng Seng loves so much points out to two points of concerns for the Aljunied Hougang Town Council. The first one is with S&CC Arrears, and the second is with Corporate Governance. The Corporate Governance matter is in the hands of the auditors, I'm not sure how Mr Goh Meng Seng intends to make the Worker's Party volunteers from the fundraiser help the auditors out... serve them coffee and tea maybe while they go through the records?

Now, the S&CC Arrears thing has always been an issue for the opposition parties. If you check all the past reports, Hougang and Potong Pasir has always received the lowest score for this category. Now, there are a few ways of improving your S&CC Arrears score. You can send runners to bang on the doors of the residents that owe money demanding them to O$P$. You can sue them in court to recover fees, possibly sue them for bankruptcy too. You can write lots of warning letters to them. You could maybe get them kicked out of their HDB flats. I think most people can see that the opposition parties have been falling behind in this area because they are generally made up of people more compassionate than the people running the Town Councils for PAP. Mr Goh Meng Seng however, seem to imply that the people who helped put together the fundraiser should instead spend their time terrorizing the needy people living in their HDB flats who are facing problems paying their Town Council fees.

It all really boils down to two issue: Running a Town Council and Running a Fundraiser is not mutually exclusive. You can do both with two different groups of people with a couple of people overseeing both. Mr Goh Meng Seng's attempt to make both mutually exclusive is not ridiculous and irrationally, and one has to wonder what his motives are for making this ineffectual attack.
 
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LordElrond

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Looking at all these postings i can't help but equate PAP to the Elfs while all you bickering nitwits appear like hobbits
 
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Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
It is really beyond you. The gist of the matter is not about how many months of bonus... if that is so, it is all so easy to make such proposal! :wink: i.e. Just cut the bonus, full stop!

It is about the mechanism of determining the level of pay. You may even come to the same level of salary but if your mechanism is based on something more reasonable, most probably it will make the ruling party re-focus on other aspects of the economy... Linking it to Mx-9 MAKES NO DIFFERENCE from PAP's philosophy of pegging to market rate! Which is, skewed in the first place!. The rate of growth in the salary will be far far faster than the average and bottom! In the long run, these salaries will be just to high as compared to the average people. That's the main problem of Mx-9.

The irony is that WP attacks that the salary is unreasonable and too high, while they don't really understand why it is so because apparently, they ended up using the very mechanism that create this very situation. Enough said. No point to waste precious brain cells over such stupid issue.

Goh Meng Seng


Of course, the part that everybody conveniently leaves out is that the WP's proposal calls for maximum 1 month bonus, while the committee's proposal quietly writes 5 month bonus.
 

godiva

Alfrescian
Loyal
PAP mole goh meng seng,

you not happy with WP then you try win back hougang and aljunied for your pap boss lor.
 

wwabbit

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Oh wow, Scroobal, I thought you would be the last person to take a deliberately misleading statement from a PAP minister and use it to attack an opposition party. The "same general level" refers to the so called monthly salary of $55,000. "Same structural features of fixed and variable bonuses (though in different proportions)" - These "different proportions" are what makes up all the differences between the WP's and the committee's proposal.

The final take home is NOT the same. This is very clear if you have actually read the transcripts of the debate.

Mr Yee Jenn Jong:
"Now, I would like to thank the Prime Minister for acknowledging that the Workers’ Party’s pay formula works out to be less than what the Committee has proposed. I believe Mr Vikram Nair and Mdm Halimah Yacob could check with the Prime Minister on how he arrived at the calculations. In our computation, the benchmark point annual salary for an entry level Minister with 13th-month bonus and an average 2.5 months bonus is $852,500, compared with $1.1 million as recommended by the Committee. This is a 46% cut from the 2010 annual pay. Furthermore, a portion of the bonus is deferred into a bonus bank. Under our proposal, the Prime Minister with the 13th month bonus and 2.5 months bonus will receive $1,534,500, compared with the recommended $2.2 million. This is a 50% cut from the 2010 annual pay."
 
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