The Hard truth is CPF is based on a big fat lie! Here's why...

[Leongsam]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

can we return the full sum and get the recipients to sign a waiver to the right to state assistance? or something to that effect?

not sure la, might sound draconian, but its a start.

You're viewing the issue in black and white. Life isn't that simple. Even if a waiver was signed, there is no way that the signatories of this waiver could be left sick and starving in the streets should they end up with nothing. The situation would simply be unacceptable to society as a whole.

At the end of the day they would have to be rescued in some manner and someone would have to pick up the tab and you can bet your sweet life it would be the taxpayer.

 

[hofmann]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

...hence CPF Life... i see... i see... but yet i can't believe what i'm seeing


.

 

[Sinkie]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

You're viewing the issue in black and white. Life isn't that simple. Even if a waiver was signed, there is no way that the signatories of this waiver could be left sick and starving in the streets should they end up with nothing. The situation would simply be unacceptable to society as a whole.

At the end of the day they would have to be rescued in some manner and someone would have to pick up the tab and you can bet your sweet life it would be the taxpayer.

I do not understand your flawed logic. It is so flawed, I don't know why you even go into that rabbit hole in the first place. Perhaps, you've been brainwashed or you're missing a chunk of your frontal cortex.

Here's why. Since someone starts work, he is contributing to CPF and using CPF for his housing, education, investing in stocks. He knows he cannot withdraw his CPF but can keep putting more money into it, according to his salary, till he reaches 55. Meanwhile, to contribute to CPF, he must be working through the years, but may not be continuous, but working. So, he saves besides that percentage he puts into his CPF, hence it is very far-fetched to assume he needs to be rescued because he will mis-spend his CPF withdrawal, because he has a whole working life to manage his finance without including his CPF, hence he knows how to manage his finance generally.....

......if not, he would not have enough all the years and his CPF would also not be sizable, so there is no reason to hold back whatever little in his CPF, as he would already be having difficulty over the years leading to 55 to have enough, and possibility no savings or little savings.....so to keep whatever little he has in his CPF when he reaches 55 is NOT helping him, but depriving him of his ability to tide over and his ability to weather any storms that may come his way. This is evil.

Another thing, what about those who are not salaried but self-employed or doing their own business? So many of them. Are you telling me that without the govt keeping their CPF (since they do not contribute CPF), they would squander their hard earned money when they reach 55?

Here lies the fallacy and far-fetched notion that the govt needs to keep a minimum sum when one reaches 55, so that these people will not end up squandering their money and become a state dependent. Nonsense, it's just an evil excuse to hoard the member's money, that's all.

 

[hofmann]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

Another thing, what about those who are not salaried but self-employed or doing their own business? So many of them. Are you telling me that without the govt keeping their CPF (since they do not contribute CPF), they would squander their hard earned money when they reach 55?

sorry for butting in, but those self-employed ones have already proven they can survive outside of the system.

 

[Sinkie]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

sorry for butting in, but those self-employed ones have already proven they can survive outside of the system.

Not true.....statistics show that many who go to CDC are either self employed, bankrupted before or unemployed.

Also, those salaried employees over the years have been surviving without touching their CPF. So, there is no reason to say that suddenly out of the blue, after withdrawing their CPF at 55, they squander it away. One more thing, all those nonsense talk about losing money to Tg Pinang whores are just idiotic propaganda.....because half of those who reach 55 are FEMALES. So, what is the evil excuse to hold their CPF now? These obasans will lose their money on gigolos and online "neh pretending to be angmoh seeking soulmate" scams? C'mon......don't insult my intelligence. This is just an evil excuse to hoard a member's own money....blatantly unconstitutional.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

i agree,if what PAP and CPF statistics say is true,Singapore is going to be one of the oldest living human civilisations on earth,by 2050 theres going to be like 2 million old sinkies walking around Singapore and 1/3rd of them is going to be as old as lky unable to even stand on their feet and shitting in diapers wherever they go.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

Not true.....statistics show that many who go to CDC are either self employed, bankrupted before or unemployed.

Also, those salaried employees over the years have been surviving without touching their CPF. So, there is no reason to say that suddenly out of the blue, after withdrawing their CPF at 55, they squander it away. One more thing, all those nonsense talk about losing money to Tg Pinang whores are just idiotic propaganda.....because half of those who reach 55 are FEMALES. So, what is the evil excuse to hold their CPF now? These obasans will lose their money on gigolos and online "neh pretending to be angmoh seeking soulmate" scams? C'mon......don't insult my intelligence. This is just an evil excuse to hoard a member's own money....blatantly unconstitutional.

The majority of governments collect money for social welfare in some form. In countries suck as UK, NZ etc whose systems I am familiar with, it is done in the form of high direct taxes.

In NZ, regardless of your income, 10 cents is extorted from the very first dollar that you earn and it goes all the way to 33%. If you want to label CPF as unconstitutional and evil, then you should have an even harsher description of income tax.

In addition, consumption tax is 15% which to me is daylight robbery. I don't know what you would call it.

In Singapore, the majority pay no income tax whatsoever. Consumption tax is half of what it is in NZ.

However, the government has a compulsory savings scheme (CPF) which forces citizens to save money in an account in their own names.

This money can be used by citizens in a variety of ways to make even more money. There is no such option when it is taken away up front in the form of income tax as is the case in NZ, UK etc.

So what is the trade off when comparing the CPF scheme with a high tax regime? The difference is that Singaporeans have to pay for social services should they need them whereas in NZ they are already pre paid by the taxpayer whether you need the service or not. In most cases, Kiwis end up paying for the poor decisions made by someone else.

The Singapore system is much fairer. The government collects far less up front and 15% of what it collects as compulsory savings is still yours to manage and bequeath even if you are not allowed to withdraw the whole lot at 55. In NZ, I have no such luck. 21% of my personal income and 30% of my company profits are STOLEN from me even before they reach my bank account. I am never given the chance to manage the money, invest it or leave it to my loved ones. It is used to fund the idle lifestyle of some lazy bastards.

Before you knock the CPF system, it would be best if you educate yourself on the evil alternatives that many countries adopt.

 

[Sinkie]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

The majority of governments collect money for social welfare in some form. In countries suck as UK, NZ etc whose systems I am familiar with, it is done in the form of high direct taxes.

In NZ, regardless of your income, 10 cents is extorted from the very first dollar that you earn and it goes all the way to 33%. If you want to label CPF as unconstitutional and evil, then you should have an even harsher description of income tax.

In addition, consumption tax is 15% which to me is daylight robbery. I don't know what you would call it.

In Singapore, the majority pay no income tax whatsoever. Consumption tax is half of what it is in NZ.

However, the government has a compulsory savings scheme (CPF) which forces citizens to save money in an account in their own names.

This money can be used by citizens in a variety of ways to make even more money. There is no such option when it is taken away up front in the form of income tax as is the case in NZ, UK etc.

So what is the trade off when comparing the CPF scheme with a high tax regime? The difference is that Singaporeans have to pay for social services should they need them whereas in NZ they are already pre paid by the taxpayer whether you need the service or not. In most cases, Kiwis end up paying for the poor decisions made by someone else.

The Singapore system is much fairer. The government collects far less up front and 15% of what it collects as compulsory savings is still yours to manage and bequeath even if you are not allowed to withdraw the whole lot at 55. In NZ, I have no such luck. 21% of my personal income and 30% of my company profits are STOLEN from me even before they reach my bank account. I am never given the chance to manage the money, invest it or leave it to my loved ones. It is used to fund the idle lifestyle of some lazy bastard

Singapore has GST, which is not fair to the poor, as for the rich, 7% is nothing to them relatively, but 7% is a lot if your disposable income is not high.

And I would prefer you pick my other post to reply to, for it consists of other points like those self-employed and those who had never been a salaried employee, so how does CPF help them? But from what I see, they're doing just fine. So fine!

Now, back to your post. Singapore Income tax did not make any promise. It is upfront and forthright. It tells you it is a TAX.
CPF was started and a 'blood' promise was made to the salaried population that come the age 55, all will be returned. Moving the goal-posts in subsequent years and kelong the population to follow along because to buy HDB flat and insurance policy and stocks, one can use CPF, since the reasoning given is that you can't touch it anyway. Fine, no problem, but the govt should not renege on its promise to RETURN OUR CPF @ 55.

That promise is sacred and made in 'blood', as its our own money, not the govt's money. We earned it; it is not charity. It is not to be converted to a form of tax. That is evil manipulation. Outright unconstitutional.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

what does it matter?at the end of the day high taxes affect rich people and the upper middle income people the most,it doesnt matter what tax the poor and the lower income households pay because at the end of the day,all the taxes that are collected goes towards welfare and public spending programs that help the poor and lower income and social services like healthcare and pensions.it goes towards helping the public and the masses.gimme a break....u think kiwis and aussies that are earning 19k a year to 60k a year(75% of aussies) are going to complain about taxes when they benefit so much from the social spending programs?only the rich and conservative right wing aussies complain about high taxes.

singapore's tax system is totally fucked up,the low tax rate means the rich gets to keep most of their massive money and causes the wealth inequality to get wider and wider while the poor struggles to stay alive and pay for their own social services.im not sure what school of economics this Arse loong subscribes to but its fucked up.hes pandering to the rich while leaving his poor citizens to suffer.

The majority of governments collect money for social welfare in some form. In countries suck as UK, NZ etc whose systems I am familiar with, it is done in the form of high direct taxes.

In NZ, regardless of your income, 10 cents is extorted from the very first dollar that you earn and it goes all the way to 33%. If you want to label CPF as unconstitutional and evil, then you should have an even harsher description of income tax.

In addition, consumption tax is 15% which to me is daylight robbery. I don't know what you would call it.

In Singapore, the majority pay no income tax whatsoever. Consumption tax is half of what it is in NZ.

However, the government has a compulsory savings scheme (CPF) which forces citizens to save money in an account in their own names.

This money can be used by citizens in a variety of ways to make even more money. There is no such option when it is taken away up front in the form of income tax as is the case in NZ, UK etc.

So what is the trade off when comparing the CPF scheme with a high tax regime? The difference is that Singaporeans have to pay for social services should they need them whereas in NZ they are already pre paid by the taxpayer whether you need the service or not. In most cases, Kiwis end up paying for the poor decisions made by someone else.

The Singapore system is much fairer. The government collects far less up front and 15% of what it collects as compulsory savings is still yours to manage and bequeath even if you are not allowed to withdraw the whole lot at 55. In NZ, I have no such luck. 21% of my personal income and 30% of my company profits are STOLEN from me even before they reach my bank account. I am never given the chance to manage the money, invest it or leave it to my loved ones. It is used to fund the idle lifestyle of some lazy bastards.

Before you knock the CPF system, it would be best if you educate yourself on the evil alternatives that many countries adopt.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

Singapore has GST, which is not fair to the poor, as for the rich, 7% is nothing to them relatively, but 7% is a lot if your disposable income is not high.

And I would prefer you pick my other post to reply to, for it consists of other points like those self-employed and those who had never been a salaried employee, so how does CPF help them? But from what I see, they're doing just fine. So fine!

Now, back to your post. Singapore Income tax did not make any promise. It is upfront and forthright. It tells you it is a TAX.
CPF was started and a 'blood' promise was made to the salaried population that come the age 55, all will be returned. Moving the goal-posts in subsequent years and kelong the population to follow along because to buy HDB flat and insurance policy and stocks, one can use CPF, since the reasoning given is that you can't touch it anyway. Fine, no problem, but the govt should not renege on its promise to RETURN OUR CPF @ 55.

That promise is sacred and made in 'blood', as its our own money, not the govt's money. We earned it; it is not charity. It is not to be converted to a form of tax. That is evil manipulation. Outright unconstitutional.

I'm replying to all your points.

No matter what system is implemented, some people will benefit and some won't. In the end governments do what they feel will help the majority of people. Of course there will be a minority who don't benefit and for some the policies concerned would make life even worse.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

anyway leongsam enough bullshiting,if ur so against high taxes and paying for social services for ur countrymen u should come back to singapore.here everyone pays for themselves u die ur biz.

we know ur an unemployed bum in NZ paying very little or no taxes......no genuine multi millionaire businessman will be willing to give up their citizenship in tax haven SG and go to tax hell NZ to live.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

anyway leongsam enough bullshiting,if ur so against high taxes and paying for social services for ur countrymen u should come back to singapore.here everyone pays for themselves u die ur biz.

we know ur an unemployed bum in NZ paying very little or no taxes......no genuine multi millionaire businessman will be willing to give up their citizenship in tax haven SG and go to tax hell NZ to live.

I agree. That's why I am still a sinkie.

 

[Sinkie]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

I'm replying to all your points.

No matter what system is implemented, some people will benefit and some won't. In the end governments do what they feel will help the majority of people. Of course there will be a minority who don't benefit and for some the policies concerned would make life even worse.

Such reply is similar to my company's front desk receptionist, who said once to one of my sales executives: If I've to help you, I've to help everyone, then I'll be very busy.........(but she forgot that her job is to help EVERYONE).

After I complained to her boss, such nonsense never happen again and when she is overloaded, her boss will get a temp for her.
Nothing to do with me. I also have my job cut out for me.

A promise is a promise, especially from the govt. No excuses should be entertained unless it's a force majeure......even then, we read the contract.

CPF website has the bad habit of silently changing the rules and calculations without public announcements or reference to any laws. It's like it can do anything it likes and do not need to answer to the public but to its own master. This is not right. TOTALLY.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

singapore's tax system is totally fucked up,the low tax rate means the rich gets to keep most of their massive money and causes the wealth inequality to get wider and wider while the poor struggles to stay alive and pay for their own social services.im not sure what school of economics this Arse loong subscribes to but its fucked up.hes pandering to the rich while leaving his poor citizens to suffer.

The low tax system in Singapore benefits the poor more than it does the rich but at the end of the day it benefits everybody.

The problem with the poor is that they usually do not make wise use of the money they save from not having to pay high taxes.

That is why the minimum sum scheme is necessary.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

I agree. That's why I am still a sinkie.

yeah yeah u are about as sinkie as a prc that cant speak singlish.dude u probably dont even know what singapore is like anymore,ur probably that guy i met one morning in melbourne tramstop who told me he ran away to australia when he was 21 because he didnt want to serve ns and he hasnt been back for over 26 years.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

The low tax system in Singapore benefits the poor more than it does the rich but at the end of the day it benefits everybody.

The problem with the poor is that they usually do not make wise use of the money they save from not having to pay high taxes.

That is why the minimum sum scheme is necessary.

tax system is about wealth redistribution,the poor is not going to save anything because they are earning jackshit in the first place.if they have tons of disposable income we wouldnt be calling them poor.

 

[Sinkie]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

The low tax system in Singapore benefits the poor more than it does the rich but at the end of the day it benefits everybody.

The problem with the poor is that they usually do not make wise use of the money they save from not having to pay high taxes.

That is why the minimum sum scheme is necessary.

The way you think is so anti-poor. That's why I say no govt is good govt, if it behaves like you. Yes, admitted the poor is cash strap and other issues too, but to say they don't make wise use of the money, you've to ask yourself how much can they save in the first place from tax. In some countries, education is free and child birth is rewarded humsumly.....not as rebates, but in cold hard cash.

Already told you GST is an unfair tax.......it taxes the poor harshly relative to their disposable income, in oppose to the same tax on someone who has a higher disposable income. Imagine even sugar, rice, salt, water, transport, utilities, sewage are taxed both for the poor and rich and very rich. Tell me, what impact it has on the rich and very rich? NEGLIGIBLE!

 

[Leongsam]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

Such reply is similar to my company's front desk receptionist, who said once to one of my sales executives: If I've to help you, I've to help everyone, then I'll be very busy.........(but she forgot that her job is to help EVERYONE).

After I complained to her boss, such nonsense never happen again and when she is overloaded, her boss will get a temp for her.
Nothing to do with me. I also have my job cut out for me.

A promise is a promise, especially from the govt. No excuses should be entertained unless it's a force majeure......even then, we read the contract.

CPF website has the bad habit of silently changing the rules and calculations without public announcements or reference to any laws. It's like it can do anything it likes and do not need to answer to the public but to its own master. This is not right. TOTALLY.

The government changes policies for the overall good of Singaporeans. All significant changes are well publicised.

Rules are never cast in stone. In NZ, things change all the time and welfare benefits are being withdrawn gradually by the government. Of course the lazy people are up in arms but hardworking kiwis are happy with the changes which is why they returned the Key govt to power in 3 consecutive elections.

If the majority are against the PAP and its policies, then it will lose the next election. If it is still in power in 2017, it means that the policies are appreciated by the majority even though they may not be perfect.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

Already told you GST is an unfair tax.......it taxes the poor harshly relative to their disposable income, in oppose to the same tax on someone who has a higher disposable income. Imagine even sugar, rice, salt, water, transport, utilities, sewage are taxed both for the poor and rich and very rich. Tell me, what impact it has on the rich and very rich? NEGLIGIBLE!

In that case you won't like most 1st world countries because the GST is sky high!

As for the rich it does not matter where you are in the world. The rich are not affected by government policies because they don't waste time complaining. They concentrate on circumventing. If you look at the NZ rich list, most of them don't live in NZ.

 

[LEGEND]

Re: PAP Should Stop CPF Wayang, Just Return OUR CPF

If the majority are against the PAP and its policies, then it will lose the next election. If it is still in power in 2017, it means that the policies are appreciated by the majority even though they may not be perfect.

No need talk so much! Give them die! Hor Yi Si! :oIo: