Singapore Voters are to be blamed. Singapore Conversation

[scroobal]

So there you have it. Straight from the horse's mouth. (see below)

Pointless writing to the press, meeting your PAP MP, engaging with grassroots organisations, making your voice heard at Hong Lim, blogging on the net, participating on online forums, speaking or writing to various government bodies or even participating in government feedback sessions.

Only thru the "Singapore Conversation" will your views be heard. And more importantly our political leaders can actual start to do something after hearing from you at the Singapore Conversation. They need your help to set the direction for the country. If not they will be clueless. You see they have no time to listen to any other channels as they spending quality time with their families, many of whom are studying overseas or have second homes in 1st world countries.

And he is right. A tried and tested channel with great credibility. My parents told me that when Singapore became independent, they used to see Goh Keng Swee at Sago Lane in the heart of his constituency sitting on a old hawker's chair with one foot precariously on the seat while seated and the other foot dangling down, old Singapore style, under a banner that said "Singapore Conversation" It was said it was from here that he realised that Singaporeans needed to be employed and 7 years later in 1972, Singapore saw full employment and Jurong came into being.

And who can forget Rajaretnam smoking away at Bussorah street and his famous SIngapore Conversation approach spiced with Nasi Campur dishes that led to the pledge . Though Lim Kim San will never admit it but it was in Cairnhill while tucking into his favourite dish of Buah Keluak while chatting with the Bibis at the Singapore Conversation that he realised that people needed affordable housing soon and soon was not soon enough.

SINGAPORE – Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen said today that it is through the Singapore Conversation that people can decide what the country’s important directions are, even as citizens have diverse views about Singapore’s future.

Dr Ng was speaking on the sidelines of a PAssionArts cultural event in Bishan, where he also touched on Singapore-United States defence relations.

Singapore is at a critical point in nation-building where many challenges faced by today’s citizens differ from those experienced by previous generations, said Dr Ng, adding that what remains relevant is still the core challenge Singapore faces.

That is because other issues, like meeting people’s aspirations, are discussed on the assumption that Singapore can remain competitive, said the minister.

Dr Ng said he was confident that together, people can make the right decisions that will chart the country’s path forward, even after taking into account different viewpoints.

The minister said that he believed it was crucial for people to help the nation arrive at practical policies that can sustain the country for the next 20 years.

“It’s an important time for Singaporeans to say what (are the) directions we want to take, how does our economy support what we want to do, how do we take care of the elderly and yet at the same time provide opportunities for the young,” said Dr Ng.

The defence minister also said that his ministry was “very gratified” with US President Barack Obama’s positive comments on the military ties between Singapore and the United States. Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong met President Obama during his recent trip to the US.

Dr Ng said that Singapore wants to continue facilitating an American presence in the region.

“We have to have a security architecture that is stable, that includes not only them (the US) as a resident power, but also emerging powers like China and India. And they recognise this,” said the minister.

Dr Ng said both Singapore and the US are working very hard at forging multilateral relationships that can create regional stability. CHANNEL NEWSASIA

 

[jw5]

And he is right. A tried and tested channel with great credibility. My parents told me that when Singapore became independent, they used to see Goh Keng Swee at Sago Lane in the heart of his constituency sitting on a old hawker's chair with one foot precariously on the seat while seated and the other foot dangling down, old Singapore style, under a banner that said "Singapore Conversation" It was said it was from here that he realised that Singaporeans needed to be employed and 7 years later in 1972, Singapore saw full employment and Jurong came into being.

Scroobal, your parents ought to have been neutered.
Because it is now apparent that they taught you to be the cunning and manipulative person you are today.

A few weeks before GE 2011, you started a thread to try and sabotage WP and CSM.
Now, long before the next GE, you start all sorts of nonsense threads to try and show you are anti pap.
Let's not forget that you also made bogus allegations that CSJ and LTK are both pap agents.
Didn't your parents tell you that what CSJ wrote in his books would have galled him and his cronies, and his son would never have apologised for something if he knew he had an "agent" in place?

It seems that having some sort of absurd internet credibility is more important to your manipulative establishment brain than having the opposition succeed.
What is scary is that perhaps the establishment even had to discard you, knowing what a two headed manipulative snake you are.
Best decision they ever made, among all the bad ones.

http://singsupplies.com/showthread.php?89550-The-Chen-Show-Mao-Affair

 

[indig10]

Very subtly done. They are masters at shifting the responsibility through the right choice of words and phrasing.

You have to give them credit. A large part of our population still believe that it is their personal responsibility to steer the nation with their valued feedback through the national conversation for these million dollar ministers. It is also their personal fault if they don't contribute to it and things go wrong.

Only the serious men will be able to tell how the entire country was raped of its thinking within the short span of 10 years.

 

[kingrant]

I too have the impression straight away that the govt is passing the buck back to Singaporeans. See? You want this, he wants that, they dont want that, so what is govt to do when there is too much debate and consultation? They are subtly trying to show that it is impossible to follow a national discourse, and want the people to just leave the decisions to them who know best and everybody else shut the fuck up. His boss also said that Singaporeans want to be consulted and to take part, and if in the process, work gets slowed down and things become messier, it's still the people's choice, and the govt has constantly warned that this will not work. Since the people insist, let there be some anarchy and then the babel will come back to the PAP - the nanny who knows best.

Still, I think it's the right thing not to let the PAP have too much powers in their heads and hands. The voters need to grow up at long last to become a mature and sophisticated electorate. It is already shown that when the important country's decisions are left to an incompetent govt, without credible institutionalised alternatives, we are at even higher risks of a failed state than a rowdy but healthy democracy.

 

[scroobal]

Nicely said. Note how Ng's approach is different from Heng's. Very suave and classy. The average Singaporean having been conditioned for all these years will feel culpable and start accepting the blame for not giving Ng and his colleagues proper guidance on what they want.

Let see how long they going to play the "Singapore Conversation" panacea for all the ills of the party.

Very subtly done. They are masters at shifting the responsibility through the right choice of words and phrasing.

You have to give them credit. A large part of our population still believe that it is their personal responsibility to steer the nation with their valued feedback through the national conversation for these million dollar ministers. It is also their personal fault if they don't contribute to it and things go wrong.

Only the serious men will be able to tell how the entire country was raped of its thinking within the short span of 10 years.

 

[scroobal]

These are missed opportunities. The PM made an unprecedented and wholly unexpected apology to the country at the 11th hour of GE2011. They could have wiped the slate clean and used the Singapore Conversation to start afresh and begin a new journey.

Instead they stacked the deck with the usual sycophants, party activists, captive corporate identities leaving out the very people who could have helped them - genuine Singaporeans with no affiliation except to see the country be better for all who are committed to it. The Netizens reacted CSI style, named, arrowed and shamed these attendees and what was a national conversation became the national circus with no animals which we should tag Cirque de Epicfail

Now the spin and the rescue operation. And they actually tabled the disastrous White Paper on Population after the Singapore Conversation and still had no idea what Singaporeans wanted and that included their own PAP MPs.

And Heng disingenuously made it clear that they are 2 separate matters. Akin to telling the neighbour that the dog that bit their toddler belongs to another family member but does not belong to me even though I kennel it and feed it.

I too have the impression straight away that the govt is passing the buck back to Singaporeans. See? You want this, he wants that, they dont want that, so what is govt to do when there is too much debate and consultation? They are subtly trying to show that it is impossible to follow a national discourse, and want the people to just leave the decisions to them who know best and everybody else shut the fuck up. His boss also said that Singaporeans want to be consulted and to take part, and if in the process, work gets slowed down and things become messier, it's still the people's choice, and the govt has constantly warned that this will not work. Since the people insist, let there be some anarchy and then the babel will come back to the PAP - the nanny who knows best.

Still, I think it's the right thing not to let the PAP have too much powers in their heads and hands. The voters need to grow up at long last to become a mature and sophisticated electorate.

 

[jw5]

Nicely said. Note how Ng's approach is different from Heng's. Very suave and classy. The average Singaporean having been conditioned for all these years will feel culpable and start accepting the blame for not giving Ng and his colleagues proper guidance on what they want.

Let see how long they going to play the "Singapore Conversation" panacea for all the ills of the party.

Scroobal, no point stating the fucking obvious about how Singaporeans have been conditioned for years.

That's also what you are counting on when you pretend to be against pap when elections are not on, and a few weeks before the elections, try to derail the oppositions' campaign. Actually, you are a fucking deluded idiot if you think there are that many people in this forum you can influence and make friends with. But if trying to be "credible" among a bunch of internet monikers is your game, then let me humour you.

Do remember though that traitorous snakes which play both sides, when they are exposed, their whole families may take the brunt.

Let's see how long you going to play the "Credible Internet Moniker" panacea for all the ills of your upbringing.

 

[kingrant]

Maybe it's Old Man's idea of letting all voters repent for all the rejection at the polls, by manipulating the Singapore Conversation into a long drawn out process and sitting it out until everyone gets tired and still no clear path ahead. Then they will come back in and say enough said, good to have democracy but processes take too long as you can see, and time is what Singapore cannot afford. So back to government by dictat.

 

[wwabbit]

I think you are reading too much into it. I've read through the article a couple of times and I certainly don't get the impression that Dr Ng Eng Han implies that the Singapore Conversation is the only form of feedback that the government will listen too. The Singapore Conversation is just one of the many ways to get feedback to the government and it will certainly be treated no differently from other form of feedback (i.e. get ignored).

 

[Hawkeye1819]

I think you are reading too much into it. I've read through the article a couple of times and I certainly don't get the impression that Dr Ng Eng Han implies that the Singapore Conversation is the only form of feedback that the government will listen too. The Singapore Conversation is just one of the many ways to get feedback to the government and it will certainly be treated no differently from other form of feedback (i.e. get ignored).

Don't just read what Dr Ng said, look at what his whole cabinet has been doing for the past several months. They have been getting their cronies to legitimize the conversation, excluded opposition and many civil society actors, and basically orchestrated the entire thing as a giant PR exercise. It has also been demeaning. Look at what has been said in the national conversation and compare to what they churned out -- the population white paper, the 6.9 million target, all the condescending remarks, the labelling of critics as xenophobes, etc.

All the kicking back and forth, pushing the buck back onto Singaporeans, taking credit when things go well and blaming citizens when things do not, etc, should be exposed, and exposed thoroughly.

 

[scroobal]

Read what Indigo wrote. He obviously is not going to paint himself in a corner, would he? He is no idiot. But take the whole message as a whole. What is the general theme? Who is he pointing at? Who do you think that he trying to convince. Before the Singapore Conversation, what were the other channels doing and why were they not sufficient and why were they not listened?

If he and the cabinet are genuine could they have done this better. Have they ever acknowledged that invitees should be reflective of society as a whole? Do you think that this charade would be allowed by the press in a 1st world country?

Opposition politics requires taking point early. If you spend your time reading the fine print, crossing the Ts and dotting the Is, nothing much gets achieved. The pressure needs to be constant and quick. These are difficult times and the fact is not the opposition is getting better in leaps and bounds but the Government performance is declining faster than. Not suggesting making frivolous and false accusations but it also does not mean that netizens do all the work and raising awareness and then riding on the wave.

I think you are reading too much into it. I've read through the article a couple of times and I certainly don't get the impression that Dr Ng Eng Han implies that the Singapore Conversation is the only form of feedback that the government will listen too. The Singapore Conversation is just one of the many ways to get feedback to the government and it will certainly be treated no differently from other form of feedback (i.e. get ignored).

 

[kingrant]

Surmising from the posts so far, it looks like there are three possibilities/ scenarios:

1. Govt is desperate to win back support so it is really listening to the national conv - which is incredible to me, by giving face to the people so that they wont reject them in 2016, and if anything goes wrong, it's the people to blame;
2. Govt still wants to pursue its agenda but pretends to be a good listener and fills it up with sycophantic voices, so they are really listening to their own voice
3. Govt still wants its own agenda, hold on to power, and really wants to show it can't listen to a cacophony, and uses the nat con to prove it.

Which do you believe?

 

[Ash007]

The Government still believes that Singaporeans are still sheep. They still believe in the "No U-turn" syndrome, everything has to have a an "official" avenue. If its not written, its not allowed. Perhaps the 60% still are, but these sheep will rise and rise and one day become lions. Like you mentioned, they could have done things different, but they did not. This just shows what they still believe in the inner circle.

These are missed opportunities. The PM made an unprecedented and wholly unexpected apology to the country at the 11th hour of GE2011. They could have wiped the slate clean and used the Singapore Conversation to start afresh and begin a new journey.

Instead they stacked the deck with the usual sycophants, party activists, captive corporate identities leaving out the very people who could have helped them - genuine Singaporeans with no affiliation except to see the country be better for all who are committed to it. The Netizens reacted CSI style, named, arrowed and shamed these attendees and what was a national conversation became the national circus with no animals which we should tag Cirque de Epicfail

Now the spin and the rescue operation. And they actually tabled the disastrous White Paper on Population after the Singapore Conversation and still had no idea what Singaporeans wanted and that included their own PAP MPs.

And Heng disingenuously made it clear that they are 2 separate matters. Akin to telling the neighbour that the dog that bit their toddler belongs to another family member but does not belong to me even though I kennel it and feed it.

 

[jw5]

Opposition politics requires taking point early. If you spend your time reading the fine print, crossing the Ts and dotting the Is, nothing much gets achieved. The pressure needs to be constant and quick. These are difficult times and the fact is not the opposition is getting better in leaps and bounds but the Government performance is declining faster than. Not suggesting making frivolous and false accusations but it also does not mean that netizens do all the work and raising awareness and then riding on the wave.

Scroobal being a cunning and manipulative hypocrite again.

Rich of you to try and say what opposition politics should be, when you tried to derail CSM and WP's campaign shortly before GE 2011 and recently made bogus allegations that LTK and CSJ are pap agents.
If you are that desperate to get back into the estbablishment, you should simply ask them, you badly brought up cretin Scroobal.

 

[kingrant]

All this OSC our singapore conversation is totally unnecessary. It is just a big wayang show to divert the attention of the people. Why? Because turning the ship around takes a long time, the mass influx - those who are already here - cannot go away, they can only stop more coming in, flats take time to build, housing prices has not eased and will take some time, infrastructure improvements also need gestation. Meanwhile to distract the people's attention from waiting for the improvements to take effect, they continue with the OSC, to make people feel good that they are beginning to have a say. It's like a soothing balm, so you wont throw eggs at them anymore.

 

[escher]

Of course, Singapore voters are to be blamed.

Having no balls to kick out everyone of those maggots in white and kept voting for those bastards time and time and time again.
Seeing hundreds of our billions going to feed smear of shit on sole of shoe LKY Stinkapore sovereign funds.
Seeing a fucking clown of PM and paper generals and cronies appointed to head mulit billion corporations build from the billions gouged and screwed and fucked from us.

VOTE OUT EVERYONE OF THOSE MAGGOTS AND COCKROACHES IN WHITE IN 2016

 

[kingrant]

Hello! Want to change tire also must have spare lah.

Of course, Singapore voters are to be blamed.

Having no balls to kick out everyone of those maggots in white and kept voting for those bastards time and time and time again.
Seeing hundreds of our billions going to feed smear of shit on sole of shoe LKY Stinkapore sovereign funds.
Seeing a fucking clown of PM and paper generals and cronies appointed to head mulit billion corporations build from the billions gouged and screwed and fucked from us.

VOTE OUT EVERYONE OF THOSE MAGGOTS AND COCKROACHES IN WHITE IN 2016

 

[The_Hypocrite]

The voters are to be blamed for voting the PAP into power. Look at the attitude of the 60% some are hard core but most dont like pap and will still vote for them due to the following reasons.

1: I vote for PAP bcos I want my flat price to go up
2: I vote PAP cos I am afraid PAP come and tekan me if I vote against them (some are old people who dont give a shit about the future generations,,so if these old folks are displaced due to pap policies,,they deserve their fate)
3: I vote for PAP but I hope opposition win.
4: I will only vote for Opposition if its WP,,if its not WP, I will vote for PAP

with this sort of shit singkie attitude,,how can there be change? How can the oppos have chance?

 

[GoldenDragon]

Meanwhile to distract the people's attention from waiting for the improvements to take effect, they continue with the OSC, to make people feel good that they are beginning to have a say. It's like a soothing balm, so you wont throw eggs at them anymore.

Very, very true. Delaying tactics, appeasing the ground etc. Fortunately, not everyone is blind.

 

[mojito]

Some people vote the PAP because they have grugingly accepted that the PAP way is best! Suppose the real problem is emigration. The PAP, in their infinite wisdom, decides to use immigration to solve that original problem. Some of these new migrants, highly intelligent and internationally sought after, eventually decide they too would be better off elsewhere. This will create an entire generation of Singapore emigrees originally of another nationality. How do you think Singaporeans should react to this?

Not only are they denied social mobility from the plum jobs taken up by foreigners, to add insult to injury the aliens still cut your queue when it comes to leaving the island. And if not being able to leave is bad, staying put is becoming increasingly unbearable as the days go by. Now they ask you, how can we make it less unbearable?

This my friend, is why the PAP will get a sound beating from their pro-FT policy. People are not convinced that:
1) we need a bigger bucket (economy)
2) immigrant spigot is necessary to replace leakage from hole in the bucket
3) the hole cannot be patched or made smaller

Because they see that:
1) they are not participating in those growth areas
2) but immigrants are
3) and more people than ever are leaving this island permanently in search for a better life