SDP, forums, strategy and its future

[scroobal]

Couple of comments and observation about the SDP, the recent forum and its future.

The recent attempt to hold a forum by portraying itself as the lead opposition party is difficult in the best of times. The fact that numerous opposition parties exist around the world does indicate a myriad of ideologies and approach that will be hard to bridge. Something like 96 parties took part in the last Federal Elections in OZ gives you an indication of diversity of views.

Maybe better to focus on building the party support and base. With recent law suits and the future of the party at stake as a legal entity, it might be prudent for like minded individuals and supporters to form a new party. Afterall they can't touch human capital and IP.

Secondly, the prerequiste to lead an opposition coalition of sorts would be to garner some level of votes at least above the opposition average to have some level of standing and moral authority within the opposition fold.

Thirdly, it would have been smarter to limit the speakers to a few credible one or two on a specific theme, followed by Q & A or a panel discussion.

Fourthly, to release details after firm commitment has been obtained by all parties.

Lastly, there is a huge difference between activites of a political party and an NGO such as Amnesty International. Evolving a political party identity must take precedence.

 

[Perspective]

The fact that numerous opposition parties exist around the world does indicate a myriad of ideologies and approach that will be hard to bridge. Something like 96 parties took part in the last Federal Elections in OZ gives you an indication of diversity of views.

That is what I have been saying all along, especially to Kakowi.

 

[scroobal]

That is what I have been saying all along, especially to Kakowi.

I know. He thinks that it has to operate as a family. Though unity is a desirable goal in any human activity especially when facing a challenge like the PAP, its so difficult.

Look at WP and JBJ, SDP and Chiam, Labour Front and Marshall etc. Even within the party, it difficult to hold it together. Lots of people who helped SDP gets its 3 seats in 91 in a landmark elections are upset with Chiam because of his style which is rather autocratic. I understand that will be a book on it soon (hopefully) and it does not come from the present SDP camp.

Its best that each party aims to take seats away from the PAP. They are also matured enough as in the past to come to agreement to 3 cornered fights etc.

 

[captainxerox]

talk of opposition unity and way forward has been going on for so long but still status quo. there is need for real, not symbolic, new leadership at sdp, wp and the others before real unity can come about.

 

[Ramseth]

I'm bemused by the idea of opposition unity, especially in the sense of common policies and common actions. If so, then all agree and merge, since all have the same ideas for policies and actions. Therefore, I'm also bemused at the idea of any opposition party owing any duty or reason for not participating in any other party's events, even if in the name of unity. In fact, what gives any party the right to hoist the flag of unity and lay the claim to be the unifier? All have some strengths and weaknesses, and all have some disagreements.

 

[LaMei]

I'm bemused by the idea of opposition unity, especially in the sense of common policies and common actions. If so, then all agree and merge, since all have the same ideas for policies and actions. Therefore, I'm also bemused at the idea of any opposition party owing any duty or reason for not participating in any other party's events, even if in the name of unity. In fact, what gives any party the right to hoist the flag of unity and lay the claim to be the unifier? All have some strengths and weaknesses, and all have some disagreements.

Hi my dear Ramseth...

calling for opposition unity is different from merging opposition into one party.

Opposition unity is needed to work in harmony towards the same cause / aim..(i.e. to win more seats from the ruling party)..


whereas a merger would mean the loss of identity for each of the individual opposition parties which is unnecessary..

hmm...since you directed me to this post, can you enlighten me which party laid claim to be the unifier?

The forum merely provides a platform for opposition parties to come together to discuss how we all can work together towards the same goal, despite the differences in manifesto / ideology / methods.

I hope you can understand the difference i am trying to show to you..

 

[leetahbar]

first thing first. are the F4 still bad mouthing wp and its leader ltk? if they are, then what is unity? to get rid of opp mp first is it? then chee would be more dominant. but again what does chee do GE after GE?

the fate of SDP is also hanging by the thread with so many lawsuits to handle. of course, it would be more convenient to blame the LAW who is chronically against sdppies n master chee who they consider themselves "higher than the law".

to ask people to donate during a forum is such a disgrace! didn't chee's books and etcs are selling very well? didn't sdppies preach hardship of peasants? then why are they asking for donations from peasants? to sponsor them for more lawbreaking activities in future is it?

if you like breaking the law, be prepared to clean up the mess yourself. it won't be fair to appeal for donation from peasants to pay for what SDP loves to break.

and please do not exaggerate that SDP is doing for the sake of peasants cos they are not. they are doing it out of their own silly little mischiefs.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

Alex in www.yawningbread.org has in his own indomitable way summed up in a concise manner the flow of the entire afternoon. I am afraid I left after the final speech and before Dr Chee's summation as it was sense of " GroundHog Day" more than anything else with only Mohd Jufrie asking some serious questions and offering some basic workable day to day bridge building activities.

It was billed as a "where to" for the opposition scenario or forum. I am afraid that by stacking the forum with "opposition" of a certain partisan and ideological bent, the end result was pre ordained or the conclusions reached predictable and boring.

I would like to quote you the words of Philip Bobbit in Terror and Consent. He was referring in his book to Islamic Extremism but I believe his words applicable to the SDP.

" Its not just that the internet allows remote leaders to reach thousands or hundreds of thousands of otherwise inaccessible persons, its that it allows those alienated OFTEN ISOLATED people to speak back to receive encouragement and reassurance as they separate themselves from society. "

Dr Chee is an intelligent man, and a psychologist he well understands the need for group think and for self radicalization. To set them apart from society, to make them feel special and as part of a revolutionary vanguard. Witness the songs and the garlands for those released for civil disobedience acts.

" Diversity is good as long as it is a diversity which challenges the PAP in manner defined by some who have errr gone to jail for the cause." or " Unity is good but the basis for unity and common action is a fight for freedom of speech and freedom of assembly aka the SDPs agenda."




Locke

 

[scroobal]

Dear Scroobal

Alex in www.yawningbread.org has in his own indomitable way summed up in a concise manner the flow of the entire afternoon. I am afraid I left after the final speech and before Dr Chee's summation as it was sense of " GroundHog Day" more than anything else with only Mohd Jufrie asking some serious questions and offering some basic workable day to day bridge building activities.

Locke

Bro, as always enjoyed your views, observations especially at the level that you are pitching at. Wish there were more like you.

The quote from Bobbit was insightful and rich.

Last year, while in Jakarta was talking to an analyst on internet impact where Internet penetration was really low. He told me that the low penetration did tell something that was indeed interesting.

He said that the intensity, debate and discussions on certain groups gave the impression that support was overwhelming. It turned out to be misleading. In the end, they went back to the traditional way of reading the ground.

They did not go into details why this was so but it was interesting. Its does show that it can be a double edged sword. The "often isolated" lot may be truly isolated from the rest of society.

 

[guavatree]

old faggot BobDog father basher temple thief!

if you like breaking the law, be prepared to clean up the mess yourself. it won't be fair to appeal for donation from peasants to pay for what SDP loves to break

unemployed parasite old fart faggot fake monk PAP dog Bob Sim Kheng Hwee,

temple thief, swindler, fraudster, cheat, con-artist, liar, hypocrite, deceiver, all rolled into one!

stealing temple money linking to father bashing both link to calling your mother LAU-CHEE-BYE

which further link to your cheating, conning, lying and hypocrisy!

Engaged in illicit gay activities is a crime!

Stealing temple donations is a crime!

Bashing your father is a crime!

Conning property is a crime!

 

[Perspective]

Look at WP and JBJ, SDP and Chiam, Labour Front and Marshall etc. Even within the party, it difficult to hold it together.

Not to mention the PAP, which has split into PAP and the Barisan and UPP in the past but in today's undesirable environment for opposition, only see some of their MPs quit politics or ministerial positions after one term (case in point - Low Yong Nguan, Toh See Kiat, Warren Lee, Cedric Foo etc.)

Two parties usually totally merge for a certain reason. Such mergers are rare. Most significant parties around the world come from growth rather than an absorption of few parties.

Also, the US third parties do not come to together to oust either the Republicans or Democrats despite their desires to.

You know, the Malaysian example that was brought up by many speakers at the forum. There has been much disagreement within the Pakatan. Today was probably the most serious in months, with DAP's Karpal Singh calling on Anwar Ibrahim to resign as opposition leader.

 

[Ramseth]

Opposition unity is needed to work in harmony towards the same cause / aim..(i.e. to win more seats from the ruling party)..

whereas a merger would mean the loss of identity for each of the individual opposition parties which is unnecessary..

Perhaps I'm over-reflecting on the Perak state fiasco, PR (as an alliance with common cause) won the state 10 months ago, then differences and defections causing it to lost again.

 

[Perspective]

calling for opposition unity is different from merging opposition into one party.

I have previously told Kakowi that it depends on what kind of "unity", which I'm afraid to say that he was unable to define.

If the extent of having a common manifesto and same type of activities (which I remember was brought up by one of the speakers) is reached, it is no different from a single party moving.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Locke,

I am a simple man. The only unison I feel that is important in the context of politics is the unity with the people. Never mind whether you are in unity with whichever party but the most important thing is that you must be in unison with the people.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear Scroobal

Alex in www.yawningbread.org has in his own indomitable way summed up in a concise manner the flow of the entire afternoon. I am afraid I left after the final speech and before Dr Chee's summation as it was sense of " GroundHog Day" more than anything else with only Mohd Jufrie asking some serious questions and offering some basic workable day to day bridge building activities.

It was billed as a "where to" for the opposition scenario or forum. I am afraid that by stacking the forum with "opposition" of a certain partisan and ideological bent, the end result was pre ordained or the conclusions reached predictable and boring.

I would like to quote you the words of Philip Bobbit in Terror and Consent. He was referring in his book to Islamic Extremism but I believe his words applicable to the SDP.

" Its not just that the internet allows remote leaders to reach thousands or hundreds of thousands of otherwise inaccessible persons, its that it allows those alienated OFTEN ISOLATED people to speak back to receive encouragement and reassurance as they separate themselves from society. "

Dr Chee is an intelligent man, and a psychologist he well understands the need for group think and for self radicalization. To set them apart from society, to make them feel special and as part of a revolutionary vanguard. Witness the songs and the garlands for those released for civil disobedience acts.

" Diversity is good as long as it is a diversity which challenges the PAP in manner defined by some who have errr gone to jail for the cause." or " Unity is good but the basis for unity and common action is a fight for freedom of speech and freedom of assembly aka the SDPs agenda."




Locke

 

[scroobal]

Dear Locke,

I am a simple man. The only unison I feel that is important in the context of politics is the unity with the people. Never mind whether you are in unity with whichever party but the most important thing is that you must be in unison with the people.

Goh Meng Seng

If this was mathematics, that is indeed the only correct answer. No else in the scheme of things matter except the people and their votes. If you can't reach the people, if you can't resonate with them, its rather pointless isn't it.

In the case of Pakatan and interestingly enough BN, the quid pro quo called for each party to get their votes in their areas of strength first and then group together to maximise leverage. It is pointless taking passengers along for the ride when they don't pay their share of the fare.

In this instance, it appears the cart has been put before the horse.

 

[Squealer]

Stop trying to sow discord again lah, we know you are a SPH/PAP agent.

I thought you said you have INSIDER INFO that Gecko has passed away, how come she is still alive and kicking ??

Where the HELL did you get your INFO ??

You are obviously a flame baiter to lure forumers out !

Couple of comments and observation about the SDP, the recent forum and its future.

The recent attempt to hold a forum by portraying itself as the lead opposition party is difficult in the best of times. The fact that numerous opposition parties exist around the world does indicate a myriad of ideologies and approach that will be hard to bridge. Something like 96 parties took part in the last Federal Elections in OZ gives you an indication of diversity of views.

Maybe better to focus on building the party support and base. With recent law suits and the future of the party at stake as a legal entity, it might be prudent for like minded individuals and supporters to form a new party. Afterall they can't touch human capital and IP.

Secondly, the prerequiste to lead an opposition coalition of sorts would be to garner some level of votes at least above the opposition average to have some level of standing and moral authority within the opposition fold.

Thirdly, it would have been smarter to limit the speakers to a few credible one or two on a specific theme, followed by Q & A or a panel discussion.

Fourthly, to release details after firm commitment has been obtained by all parties.

Lastly, there is a huge difference between activites of a political party and an NGO such as Amnesty International. Evolving a political party identity must take precedence.

 

[leetahbar]

wow! where do u learn about DISCORDS SOWING? what brand of fertiliser u apply?

 

[jw5]

Dear Locke,

I am a simple man. The only unison I feel that is important in the context of politics is the unity with the people. Never mind whether you are in unity with whichever party but the most important thing is that you must be in unison with the people.

Goh Meng Seng

GMS
Spoken like a true politician, and I mean that in the best possible way.
It takes real talent and thought process in order to know what to say and when. Many of our opposition politicians have the best interests of Singaporeans at heart, but they tend to be either too combative or too meek, at the wrong moments.
It will be a real pity if you don't take part in the next elections.

 

[jw5]

Couple of comments and observation about the SDP, the recent forum and its future.

The recent attempt to hold a forum by portraying itself as the lead opposition party is difficult in the best of times. The fact that numerous opposition parties exist around the world does indicate a myriad of ideologies and approach that will be hard to bridge. Something like 96 parties took part in the last Federal Elections in OZ gives you an indication of diversity of views.

Maybe better to focus on building the party support and base. With recent law suits and the future of the party at stake as a legal entity, it might be prudent for like minded individuals and supporters to form a new party. Afterall they can't touch human capital and IP.

Secondly, the prerequiste to lead an opposition coalition of sorts would be to garner some level of votes at least above the opposition average to have some level of standing and moral authority within the opposition fold.

Thirdly, it would have been smarter to limit the speakers to a few credible one or two on a specific theme, followed by Q & A or a panel discussion.

Fourthly, to release details after firm commitment has been obtained by all parties.

Lastly, there is a huge difference between activites of a political party and an NGO such as Amnesty International. Evolving a political party identity must take precedence.

Scroobal
I have come to the conclusion that the opposition parties and politicians don't have to be "united".
They simply need to cooperate at election time, have a common goal to make the government more accountable and transparent and have the peoples' interests as the main priority.
People of course refers to locally born and bred citizens.

 

[scroobal]

Scroobal
I have come to the conclusion that the opposition parties and politicians don't have to be "united".
They simply need to cooperate at election time, have a common goal to make the government more accountable and transparent and have the peoples' interests as the main priority.
People of course refers to locally born and bred citizens.

I am with you. Credit to the opposition parties that they have cooperated very well in the past. They have avoided 3 corner fights, respected each other's stomping ground and even on rally sites. I am given to understand that during GE, they come together like a family and the common enemy is the PAP.