Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party. Time to stop the Reform?

[Ramseth]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

I would see it this way. WP is feeding new recruits for the opposition camp as it is the most immediately recognizable name and often the first stop or door for newbies. A number of people from SDP, RP and NSP are all ex-WP but never the other way round.

If he did not join WP, perhaps he would not have set foot in RP. Which is a good thing for diversity causes.

It's advisable to use the comparative "more than" instead of the absolute "never". Shin Leong approached SPP first before coming over to WP, Ti Lik (to PAP first, then WP), Perry (to SDP first, then WP).

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

It's advisable to use the comparative "more than" instead of the absolute "never". Shin Leong approached SPP first before coming over to WP, Ti Lik (to PAP first, then WP), Perry (to SDP first, then WP).

You beat me to that!

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

It's advisable to use the comparative "more than" instead of the absolute "never". Shin Leong approached SPP first before coming over to WP, Ti Lik (to PAP first, then WP), Perry (to SDP first, then WP).

Oh, yes... NSP was approached by some in WP before they join WP.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

It's advisable to use the comparative "more than" instead of the absolute "never". Shin Leong approached SPP first before coming over to WP, Ti Lik (to PAP first, then WP), Perry (to SDP first, then WP).

BTW, Vince, who will you vote if there is a 3 corner fight in your ward involving WP, NSP and PAP?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

BTW, Vince, who will you vote if there is a 3 corner fight in your ward involving WP, NSP and PAP?

Following well tested advice, I'll take a good look at the candidates. As mine is a GRC, I'll look particularly harder at my direct divisional candidate.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

Following well tested advice, I'll take a good look at the candidates. As mine is a GRC, I'll look particularly harder at my direct divisional candidate.

How come you still need to take a good look at the candidates? You are WP members, sure vote for WP! Whose "well tested advice" is that?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

Following well tested advice, I'll take a good look at the candidates. As mine is a GRC, I'll look particularly harder at my direct divisional candidate.

Wait....is that WP's doctrine for members or what? Even own party's team doesn't mean you will vote for them automatically?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

How come you still need to take a good look at the candidates? You are WP members, sure vote for WP! Whose "well tested advice" is that?

Country before party. I vote as a citizen first and foremost. Even Chiang Kai-shek was abducted by his own comrades for the good of China then. I'm nothing so grandiose, but I do my bit with whatever faculty and conscious I'm endowed with.

That said, if there's a good case of voting for any Tom, Dick or Harry being better for the country, I may well consider doing so too.

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

Wait....is that WP's doctrine for members or what? Even own party's team doesn't mean you will vote for them automatically?

I can't speak for WP doctrine. You have to ask WP CEC. You were a member thereof before. You should know the protocol.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

Country before party. I vote as a citizen first and foremost. Even Chiang Kai-shek was abducted by his own comrades for the good of China then. I'm nothing so grandiose, but I do my bit with whatever faculty and conscious I'm endowed with.

So this is merely your view lah! I thought WP has set up such doctrines!

Actually in recent Taiwan by-elections, one prominent KMT member was censured for supporting an independent candidate rather than his own party KMT's candidate. He was severely dealt with, nearly lost his KMT membership.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

I can't speak for WP doctrine. You have to ask WP CEC. You were a member thereof before. You should know the protocol.

When I was WP CEC member, may be I assumed too much that all WP members will naturally vote for WP candidates. May be really highfalutin naive to think so. Such things do happen in real life, just like KMT of Taiwan.

Next time must be in black and white, no party members are supposed to support other candidates contesting against own party candidates...

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

When I was WP CEC member, may be I assumed too much that all WP members will naturally vote for WP candidates. May be really highfalutin naive to think so. Such things do happen in real life, just like KMT of Taiwan.

It's common in democracies like US and UK that registered ordinary members of political parties vote for other sides (usually as aprotest, sometimes in disgust). You want all members of one party to vote for that party? You also want to see PAP MPs voting against PAP ministers in Parliament? Then, there's double standard in this equation.

Next time must be in black and white, no party members are supposed to support other candidates contesting against own party candidates...

It's constitutionally illegal. Even PAP ministers can vote for you if they like you. However, announcing it is another ballgame altogether.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

It's common in democracies like US and UK that registered ordinary members of political parties vote for other sides (usually as aprotest, sometimes in disgust). You want all members of one party to vote for that party? You also want to see PAP MPs voting against PAP ministers in Parliament? Then, there's double standard in this equation.



It's constitutionally illegal. Even PAP ministers can vote for you if they like you. However, announcing it is another ballgame altogether.

Well, the KMT politician was supporting other people OPENLY. I think the key is OPEN support for opponents that is the problem. Yes, one may vote secretly for or against anyone, but declaring it openly of their support is unacceptable at all.

US case is a bit different. It is about the bills that they chose to support or not. The Senates or Congressman may not support their own colleague in certain bills, that's fine. I mean, it is the bills that affect everyone and they have their rights to their own discretion.

However, it is really unimaginable for any Congressman or Senates to support their opponent party's Presidential candidate OPENLY. That would not be normal.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

OK. I'm going to take my constitutional right to keep my vote secret.

 

[scroobal]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

Actually a political party can require voting for it as a rule failing which expulsion can follow. This has nothing to do with the constitution. The party can also request that all party members sign a stat dec stating they voted for the party. The party however cannot stop you voting.

And that includes stating which party that members cannot vote for. Again not a breach of the constitution.

The basis for this is that the party has expended money and effort in conveying a certain message to voters and any act that goes directly against that has misled people and an element of deception has taken place. If WP had sued Yaw, they would have won. If a member of public has sued Yaw, he would have won. Its no different to making fraudulent claims when selling goods. Again nothing to do with the constitution.

His strongest argument would be that WP did not contest that particular ward. However it carries little weight as he himself was facing the PAP in his ward and all the message indicated that he was not one with the PAP.

Your use of "constitutional right" reminds me of the Americans claiming the 1st to the 5th amendment but have no clue what it means.

OK. I'm going to take my constitutional right to keep my vote secret.

 

[Perspective]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

It's advisable to use the comparative "more than" instead of the absolute "never". Shin Leong approached SPP first before coming over to WP, Ti Lik (to PAP first, then WP), Perry (to SDP first, then WP).

Your point being......? WP is 'losing people like cesswater' and I just wanted to help enhance this perception.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

If you believe Perspective, you would believe that the opposition are a happy bunch of brothers and not really in competition with each other for scarce political talent, leaders and or worker bees, right and pigs will fly. People like Tony and wife are the equivalent of Political Gold Diamonds Dynamite :_)), 2 for the price of one :_)).

For those of us with a long enough memory, we will remember how LTK renewed the party by taking on board SL immediately after 2001, profiling her and helping to raise the awareness of the party as a whole. The raised energetic profile of SL helped in turn propel a new bunch of people into the party.

The profiling of these two will I hope likewise help drive new recruits and new personalities into the RP which will work together on a cohesive primus inter pares principle.

I believe the WP like the RP is actively recruiting but chosing a rather more secretive approach with regards to the introduction of new members. Would the WP have highlighted Tony and Wife if they had joined the party :_)) Probably not, a position on the CEC , again probably not as they would not have done enough time and groundwork selling hammer etc etc to get into the CEC as tony did with the RP. If you were really ambitious and wanted a fast track career path and being an entrepreneur , then RP probably would have been a better fit. If you wanted hierachey , established rules procedures, a set pecking order, a career path measured over a decade then the WP would be his choice.

But for some reason the RP could trust Tony and Wife with a fast track but the same cannot be said for the WP. nThe media shyness of the WP is now I believe part of the party culture and party DNA. The media saviness on the part of the RP hopefully will persists.




Locke

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Hello Locke,

Please remember you are a WP member! How could you criticize your own party in the open?

Goh Meng Seng

Dear Scroobal

If you believe Perspective, you would believe that the opposition are a happy bunch of brothers and not really in competition with each other for scarce political talent, leaders and or worker bees, right and pigs will fly.

For those of us with a long enough memory, we will remember how LTK renewed the party by taking on board SL immediately after 2001, profiling her and helping to raise the awareness of the party as a whole. The raised energetic profile of SL helped in turn propel a new bunch of people into the party.

The profiling of these two will I hope likewise help drive new recruits and new personalities into the RP which will work together on a cohesive primus inter pares principle.

I believe the WP like the RP is actively recruiting but chosing a rather more secretive approach with regards to the introduction of new members. Would the WP have highlighted Tony and Wife if they had joined the party :_)) Probably not, a position on the CEC , again probably not as they would not have done enough time and groundwork selling hammer etc etc to get into the CEC as tony did with the RP. If you were really ambitious and wanted a fast track career path and being an entrepreneur , then RP probably would have been a better fit. If you wanted hierachey , established rules procedures, a set pecking order, a career path measured over a decade then the WP would be his choice

The media shyness of the WP is now I believe part of the party culture and party DNA. The media saviness on the part of the RP hopefully will persists.




Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

Just wry observations :_)) after all I am one of the few that can profess zero political ambition in any form




Locke

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

Your use of "constitutional right" reminds me of the Americans claiming the 1st to the 5th amendment but have no clue what it means.

LOL! Yes, I was just kidding and making a punt on Americans taking the 5th Ammendment, particularly the right not to be witness against onself.