One Singaporean's Story for Migrating

[scroobal]

http://forums.delphiforums.com/sammyboymod/messages?msg=92366.18

Leeisphtui 02/02/2006 11:16

Why why why? As a sinkee, I will tell you why I left more than a year ago.

My SG wife and I have always done well enough in Singapore, I was lucky enough to have my own business there and my wife worked for one of the top Euro banks for some years. We were comfortable with a nice continental car and condo in East Coast.

However, after living there for so long, I realize everyone I know has left or leaving. Since 1997 Singapore has never recovered. The amounts of bull sinkees put up with from the govt is ever increasing. The Lees, the whole SIA Ryan Goh saga, the ministers pay, its all bull. The list is endless and this forum is well aware of it. I remember hearing economy double digit growth yet I see empty restaurant and stores closing all the time. On the roads, everyday someone cuts you off, or drives so badly, its like a war zone on the streets of SG. Again this list goes on.

Then one day in early 2004, I realized something. I cant see any future in Singapore. This was after seeing so many friends suffering in business, seeing firsthand many clients from many industries facing competition from India, China, and hearing in the market so and so company moving to china or malaysia, etc. Really if you stop and think about it, what future does Singapore have? although we were comfortable I was seriously considering a move. One day, while waiting in a travel agents office in North Bridge Road I saw a group of Indians there. I asked them where they were going. They were consultants from a very well known IT firm, going back to India or to Malaysia. They told me the office is cut by 80% as Singapore not doing well. Same goes for other major IT firms. Soon after I remember reading in the Straits Times an article by the creative boss mr sim, saying china will overtake sg's competiveness in five years as the english speaking edge is being marginalized.

I went on holdiday to Australia and USA and saw how well friends and family are doing. Rosy picture in both places. I decided to leave. At end 2004 I took an SQ flight to Los Angeles with my SG wife and dog. A friend picked me up at the airport. The next day I bought a car. a 1999 Mercedes ML 320 SUV for US S$ 17.000 with 40,000 miles or 70,000 KM. I stayed in California visiting friends and had a great time. A relative in Florida offered to sponsor me for a green card and my wife has a job interview with the same bank as in SG there. We drove across USA. Had a great time. People everwhere so friendly.

In florida relative got all visas done and wife went to interview. She was offered a job, doing same thing at 2x the salary! No state income tax in Florida and weather is hot all year long. Our total tax rate 2005 is only 15% according to federal tax table and in 2005 we will pay 0 tax due to deductibility of moving expenses and property related expenses. i expect to pay 0 tax in 2006 as well.

looking at the 2005 1040 table pg 68, someone earing US$ 30K/year (low income) pays US$ 3774 a year, pg 71, 50k/yr is 6774, and pg 72 70k/yr the tax is 10836. this is BEFORE all deductions or taxcredits which can bring the tax liability to 0 or even be entitled to free money from govt. Many people here complain of high tax in USA. Bullshit. I think i paid more tax to the IRAS than I will to IRS!!!!!!

Lets see, since then i cant beleive i stayed in SG for so long. Here we now have a bungalow house purchased for 250K SGD. The quality of our life is much better. The people are friendly, no one drives like they do in SG. There is courtesy everywhere I go. In restaurant they are polite and care about the customer. I bank with Bank of A, and three times last year they waive fees and late payment penalty whenever I call them. My dog goes to the vet and the medicine is more advanced than SG - there is even a dentist at the vet office. At my wife's office people more friendly, much less politics and company even pay to send the women to spa treatment once a month and every year they take everyone in bank on fully paid holiday. Two times already I was about to recieve ticket for parking and when i asked the ang mo auntie to pls no give me fine, she said "ok", and ripped the ticket up! I see so many people working in 7 eleven or other store earning us 10-14/hr and they all drive nice car - one even drove lexus - and pay all himself. The supermarket food prices lower than in SG and selection far superior. The electricity far cheaper. The gas far cheaper. There is no govt bullshit here, and you can say anything you want. Everyday you go out and someone says "hello" even though you dont know them. If someone fall down or gets sick, everyone rush to help them, unlike SG. Also in places like Australia the tax rate is high because of welfarism, to take care of the people. Yet here if you are poor, you can qualify for section 8, where the govt pays your rental on house or apartment, and if you get sick the govt will pay for your hospitalization, health care. The govt takes care of you here, like Aust, but no sky high tax rate!! Last week I was looking at buying another car, for weekend use, a seconhand 2000 porsche boxster with 60,000 Miles - the price? US 15K. The wife and I also talking to contractor about building a swimming pool in our back yard. The cost? US 15K. We cant wait to get our CPF.

I can write a book on how much better the US is than SG. But instead i will leave you with this thought. I left singapore becuase i saw no future. In fact who does see a future in singapore? who? what future?

It is up to you people to leave and change your lives. If you dont, nothing will change.

Its up to you.

 

[kingrant]

Good nugget from yr buried treasures..

Also, if you hold an American passport, Uncle Sam sticks out for you wherever in the world.

 

[bart12]

Here is another post from the old Sammy forum:

Why did I leave Sg? Because of the chance to actually be anything you want to be.

Sammy says he left because Sg today is not the Sg he knew (hope I got this right sammy).I agree witrh him 100%. For those who are older, look back to the time when you were growing up. Think of your family, friends, neighbours and work-mates. People were friendly, helpful, generous and genuine. I am not saying people in Sg today are not this way. far from it. I am sure that deep down inside, the psyche has not changed. However, the focus has shifted from community to self. Why? I feel because of the direction the country has taken steered by the leadership. People in Sg have become self centered for no other reason than because they realise that if they don't look out for themselves, no one will.

I did a self assessment a couple of years ago and came to some conclusions.

1. In Singapore, you own nothing of significance. what do I mean? The house you live in (be it HDB, private apt, semi-detached, 99 year lease or free-hold) is basically rented by you, for the term of the lease or till the govt decides it needs the land and pays you compensation IT deems adequate. After which you lease another dwelling till the cycle happens again. For those who live in HDB flats. Remember, this is PUBLIC HOUSING. By defination, public housing, is housing, provided by the govt, ffor the public and prices that the masses can afford. It should be priced by market forces and sold by the Govt or HDB for a profit. If it is, it is an open market meaning the house is yours and you can do with it as you will, not have to get any govt or HDB approval if yu wish to sell it. Have to be married to buy it, be forced to upgrade it because it has been decided by others.

Your car that you have bought and paid for is also actually leased for 10 years extendedable for another 10 years at a higher tax rate after which it needs to be basically crushed for scrap metal. You get a token sub for the metal but that's it.

2. The govt realises and knows the economy is in a bad state and does not know how to get out. They justify their high salaries by claiming to need to pay well to get C.E.O quality leaders. In just about any company I know, CEOs that them would have been sacked and in some countries even jailed for financial mismanagement. The principal of government should be to serve the people. Elected by the people, for the people with equality and justice for all. All, not some. Granted this is somewhat idealistic, but not to be taken to a point where financial reward is the overiding factor for going into Govt. Because the govt expounds the notion that wealth is success and material posessions are the sign of wealth the people can only tend to emulate lest be thought of as being unsuccessful peons.

The people put them in and as such the people should be able to question their decisions without fear or reprisals. I mean, we pay their salaries.

3. Public hospitals are hospitals that cater for the public. It should be run to provide the public with quality affordable medical care. Profits should not be overriding concern. Increacing charges to bring it in line with private hospitals to unburden the public hospital load is not a senseable arguement. want to reveive the burden, build more public hospitals. Same with comments like "we raise public transport fares now when times are bad so when times improve you will not nootice it" is just nonsense and sounds like a parent talking to a child.

4. When you reach the legal age of an adult, you are for all intents and purposes responsible for your actions. However, you can't touch you CPF unless you want to buy a flat, can only use a protion of your medisave, medishield for your hospital bills and pay the rest in cash. Can't do as you please with your nest egg because the govt says you can't. You are legally an adult but are treated like a child becausse the govt does not deem you able to make rational decisions so they decide for you.

5. The govt decides how good you are based on academic acheivement judged by arbitrary methods. Your life and future is decided for you and if you cannot afford to persue an overseas education, you are stuck.

I was only allowed to go to the VITB after my 'O' levels because I failed my 2nd language (chinese). I did my NS as a storeman LCP, did some menial jobs before I could afford to go for an overseas education and today, I hold a research masters degree and write journal articles for an academic publicaion. My point is I feel I have fulfilled my potential. Fulfilled it because I DETERMINED what I wanted to do and worked to acheive it. It is something I would NEVER have been able to in Sg because according to the Govt, I should have gone to the VITB. There is nothing wrong with going to the VITB, but you should have the chance to decide what you want to do and not have that decision made for you. You decide and see how far you can push your dream.

I was born in Singapore, Lived in Singapore till I was 23 and went overseas to see what my actual limits were. as I could not do it in the country of my birth. I will not return to Sg because everything that I have acheived, I did in Oz. Australia allowed me to realise my potential and decide how far I wanted to go. I would rather make a contribution to the people and country that gave me this chance rather than return to the country that would not. Yes, by PM Goh's measure, I am a quitter. But I quit because of the management and office environment and quitting is my right, not privilage.

To those that want to apply to migrate to Australia here are a few points. You need to pick up a migration pacck from teh High Comission and read it carefully. If you chose to go through a migration agent, that is your choice and you will not be penalised for doing so.

Make sure you have all your documentation ready and make your submission. What you will find is that your application will be judged based on merit. It may take some time but you will get an outcome eventually. DO NOT falsify or submit bogus info or documents because they are very through in their examination and will call to verify information and seek proof. The more qualified and experienced you are the higher the likelihood of approval.

When you get to Australia you will have to prepare yourself for a change.

Yes, taxes are higher. But higher taxes are used to pay for social services like medical benefits, unemployment benefits, training programs and public education programs. Govt decisions are for the most part very transparent with full debate and expainations.

For those that fear racism or proclaim Sg is not racist, time for a reality check. EVERY country in the world has racists and some degree of racism. When you refer to a westener or a foreigner as an Ang Mo, a Bangladashi as a bangla or anything like that you are being racist. Realise this.

Your biggest enemy will be hyper-sensitivity. when Pauline Hanson was the rage here, people that opposed her outnumbered her supporters almost 4-1. she was not really a racist if you take the time to listen to her policies and hear what she was saying. She was basically advocating tighter control of migration policy to ensure better quality migrants who would be able to conribute to the community. She was also saying that migrants who come to Australia should fit into Australian society and not expect Australian society to change and adapt to migrants. Valid points when you consider the so called peril alot of Sgporeans feel with the influx of foreign and western values into Sg.

My first trip to the outback was with some Aussie friends. It was to a town about 5 hours out of the city. Before we arrived one of them turned around and gently suggested that I would probably be the first Asian they had ever seen in the flesh so if any one was weird or stared to not get too upset. When we got there and started meeting the farmers I sort of stood back and smiled and then one of the group inroduced me as a friend from Singapore. I swear that the exact response I got was "G'day mate, how long have you been here." I replied for about a year and next response was "so how do you find it". replied that it was a really nice place. "Next response was."I've heard of Singapore, supposed to be really nice and clean from what I hear, must visit it one day". And that was it. You are more often than not judged by who you are, not by your clothes, car or house. Actions speak louder than words is the key here. Show that you are willing to put in equal effort and be friendly and you will make your life alot easier.

Don't have a chip on your sholder and expect people to be nice to you. You will reap what you sow and see that people here are genuine and helpful for the most part.

From discussions with friends I have gathered that most of the resentment comes from migrants that flaunt their wealth. Be an average person and get used to the sense of humor here. Be willing to be self-affacing. My friends will sometimes say if they notice me doing something differently "Must be an Asian thing", or "what do you know, you're Asian". I usually reply ,"yup, and proud of it". You must realise it is not done out of malice but just an Oz sense of humor. Beleive me if they consider you a friend and feel that someone is taking advantage of you or trying to screw with you they will stand up for you without you having to ask for help. You must be willing to do the same.

You basically will determine the experience you have here. Come with the right frame of mind and be prepared to fit into Oz society and you will be rewarded. Come with the typical Sg attitude of being the centre of the universe and you will find that you will be a lonly person.

 

[Aussie Prick]

Good nugget from yr buried treasures..

Also, if you hold an American passport, Uncle Sam sticks out for you wherever in the world.

This story is utterly the essence of why Singaporeans migrate and find happiness overseas. Very good post.

 

[kensington]

Good nugget from yr buried treasures..

Also, if you hold an American passport, Uncle Sam sticks out for you wherever in the world.

Too bad. That passport holder's throat was cut. Smart Americans claimed to be Canadians nowadays...

 

[Don Muthuswamy]

Also, if you hold an American passport, Uncle Sam sticks out for you wherever in the world.

Well, yes and no. In the case of Gopalan Nair for instance, they were not able to do anything much.

 

[chewed]

Good nugget from yr buried treasures..

Also, if you hold an American passport, Uncle Sam sticks out for you wherever in the world.

i think you need an reality check. there are plenty of accounts of American citizen being abandoned their govt in the name of national interest since WW II. google it

 

[chewed]

"For those that fear racism or proclaim Sg is not racist, time for a reality check. EVERY country in the world has racists and some degree of racism. When you refer to a westener or a foreigner as an Ang Mo, a Bangladashi as a bangla or anything like that you are being racist. Realise this."

thats what many sinkies don't realise.....

 

[Leongsam]

When you refer to a westener or a foreigner as an Ang Mo, a Bangladashi as a bangla or anything like that you are being racist. Realise this." thats what many sinkies don't realise.....

Tell me about it. I received the worst racial abuse and was subjected to the greatest degree of discrimination when I lived in sinkieland. Even when I was a teenager, I had no choice but to drop my girlfriend off 100 metres or so from her home after a date because her dad didn't approve of people who looked different.

The discrimination continued well into my working life.

However, what didn't kill me made me stronger and it was adversity that made me decide that I should graduate from the ranks of employee to become an employer.

The US, UK, OZ and NZ are far more tolerant of minority groups than Sinkiepoor will ever be.

 

[facadegeniality]

deleted.

 

[IR123]

I can write a book on how much better the US is than SG. But instead i will leave you with this thought. I left singapore becuase i saw no future. In fact who does see a future in singapore? who? what future?

I have known many who see futures in singapore.

And who will never think of migration.

There is always the other side of the coin where people are doing well.

My belief is that if you want to stay, make the best of it. Otherwise leave and make the best of it. Grumbling does not help.

 

[Aussie Prick]

I have known many who see futures in singapore.

And who will never think of migration.

There is always the other side of the coin where people are doing well.

My belief is that if you want to stay, make the best of it. Otherwise leave and make the best of it. Grumbling does not help.

Just because you see a future in Singapore does not mean a vast number DO NOT. If you enjoy living in a police state controlled by a dynastic regime punctuated with nepotism - albeit with accountability - then that is your problem. Life is too precious to waste living as a vassal in a land where civil liberties are virtually nonexistant. If you like having a press that is near communist that is also your problem. If you see a bright future as a Singapore with ever increasing costs and 6.5 million people squeezing you on every road and walkway that too is your problem.

 

[scroobal]

Great post bro. Very encouraging. I remember a story about a retiree and his wife visiting Perth after their retirement for a holiday accompanied by his adult kids. He liked it so much that he started some sort of horticultural business and became busy as hell. His only regret was notleaving Singapore any earlier.

Another Singaporean's Story for Migrating

http://forums.delphiforums.com/sammyboymod/messages?msg=15049.1

Hello to all,

Been away from the forum since before the the change. Wow, I must say Samuel really did a good job sprucing up the forum.

I've been reading many threads regarding migration to Australia or New Zealand. It's interesting that as more Singaporeans realise that the world does not centre around a tiny red dot, we are more willing to venture abroad for a relaltively better life.

 

[IR123]

Just because you see a future in Singapore does not mean a vast number DO NOT. If you enjoy living in a police state controlled by a dynastic regime punctuated with nepotism - albeit with accountability - then that is your problem. Life is too precious to waste living as a vassal in a land where civil liberties are virtually nonexistant. If you like having a press that is near communist that is also your problem. If you see a bright future as a Singapore with ever increasing costs and 6.5 million people squeezing you on every road and walkway that too is your problem.

Did i touched a raw nerve? Note that i did not tell you what to do. You can do what you want. But what gives you the right to abuse others?

You should know that there are people who find singapore worthwhile enough to come here. People who lived with situations they cannot control but try their best to find good solutions. People who do not find singapore to be a problem because they compare it with problems elsewhere. People who find PAP a big problem but live with it and find their own solutions.

My final point still stands. If you want to leave, then leave. If you want to stay, then stay. But there is no need to grumble. Grumbling doesn't help.

 

[kingrant]

If we dislike what we see strongly enough, we should do something about it. I disagree with you that we should make the best of it. There are many people who dislike their status quo, but couldn't migrate. What then?

Why should these people grin and bear it? They should be encouraged to change things for the better, and to remove the tormentors. Change starts with grumbling. It starts with little things that cause irritation; if not addressed, it becomes agitation, and then aggravation. For the layman, he is still empowered to change with the vote. The problems have reached aggravating stage but the frustration is that when Singaporeans come to vote, they are afraid to change their govt.

I have known many who see futures in singapore.

And who will never think of migration.

There is always the other side of the coin where people are doing well.

My belief is that if you want to stay, make the best of it. Otherwise leave and make the best of it. Grumbling does not help.

 

[IR123]

If we dislike what we see strongly enough, we should do something about it. I disagree with you that we should make the best of it. There are many people who dislike their status quo, but couldn't migrate. What then?

Why should these people grin and bear it? They should be encouraged to change things for the better, and to remove the tormentors. Change starts with grumbling. It starts with little things that cause irritation; if not addressed, it becomes agitation, and then aggravation. For the layman, he is still empowered to change with the vote. The problems have reached aggravating stage but the frustration is that when Singaporeans come to vote, they are afraid to change their govt.

I did not say grin and bear it.

I said don't grumble but do something about it.


Some believed that when the PAP is voted out, or have more non-PAP inside Parliament, things will get better. Well there are at least 3 non-PAP inside Parliament today. More NMCP will come in to represent their diverse interests.
If that is not enough, by all means vote for more.

Others believed that with the present crop of opposition, even if there are 10 of them, nothing will change. Newer excuses for incompetence will emerge. There is also no guarantee that things will get better. The only guarantee is that more horse-trading will take place. One way is to check their performance record - if they truly cared about the voters they represent or just about maintaining their status quo.

It takes a long time for such compliant opposition to emerge. Thus two groups of people have interest in keeping them there. One group who believe in them. The other group who wants them to remain.

The issues are also not straightforward. Even the assertion that more opposition will mean a better PAP is no longer that definitive. What it means is that a lesser-powered PAP will be in place and compromises will be made with the other parties. That need not neccessary lead to a better deal for the citizens. Look at India and Taiwan.

Thus it is far better for the citizens to look after themselves than to put their hopes in the oppositions.

So if there are people who really have a bad situation today, you have two choices - one to vote for the opposition and convince others to do so (or denigrate them if they refuse to do so). The other is to change your own life and expectations. If needed, small steps by small steps until the day come when you can migrate away from PAP.

 

[kingrant]

If needed, small steps by small steps until the day come when you can migrate away from PAP.

How do you do that if you don't make a small step now?

 

[IR123]

How do you do that if you don't make a small step now?

By making steps relevant to yourself.

In that way, you are neither PAP nor opposition's pawn.

 

[kingrant]

But there is no need to grumble. Grumbling doesn't help.

Who says grumbling doesnt help?

Well, we grumbled abt the unfair GRC system. PAP added more NCMPs and NMPs and reduce the GRC size. We grumbled abt the huge inflow of FTs; now they say they are going to 'calibrate' it. We grumbled abt the HDB flat prices and affordability; now they say they'll build more. So it goes on.

Of cos, we are still not happy with their answers, because they are so arrogant with their wealth and insult us by saying that we're lazy and choosy, and taunt us with their disbelief and out of touchness. So we must fight on.

If we follow you, hunker down and 'change your expectations', we'll get bullied even more. So even if more Opp means a slower govt, more trading, so be it. The patient is so ill now he has to get worse before he gets better.

 

[kingrant]

By making steps relevant to yourself.

In that way, you are neither PAP nor opposition's pawn.

Aw c'mon, how can taking part in the political system be construed as being somebody's pawn? What are these steps relevant to yrself? An example?
By voting for somebody/nobody, you are signalling that you subscribe to that someone/nobody else's stand, platform or manifesto who best fitsdo not fit yr needs. That, or you stand as an independent. No such thing as neutral. A neutral guy is a freeloader.