A thoughtful discussion on the economics and profitability of food delivery services, all the more relevant now during lockdown.
Discussion Did you feel that Grab's response on their commission % is tone deaf? (i.redd.it)
submitted 2 hours ago by WhatsHappeningApril
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[–]ballsie995 25 points26 points27 points an hour ago (0 children)
(these days) companies stock valuation is not a reflection of how much profit they are making. oh well.
[–]sierrakilokilo 7 points8 points9 points an hour ago (1 child)
Hey, actually I am very biased to say they are indeed randomly valued at $14b. Blame it on cheap money or too much hype but how a loss making company can be valued at astronomical multiples?
[–]SamBellFromSarang [score hidden] 52 minutes ago (0 children)
Most valuations are based on things like stocks or assets like servers. It's why Bezos is valued high af but he's actually not very rich; his value is tied to Amazon stock which if he takes out then his company will crash.
[–]coffeeteaormeh 18 points19 points20 points 2 hours ago (1 child)
"you are also part of the problem"
so true.
[–]I_will_take_that [score hidden] 48 minutes ago (0 children)
That's the most frustrating thing about all this people. They want grab to change, instead of making the changes themselves. Learn from Hawkers united. Create something!
Instead of demanding a business make the change, DO something about it. Learn from the shops starting their own delivery system! If you aren't trying something out, then stfu and accept you are just lazy and not willing to move out of your comfort zone
[–]justtosavestuffhere 16 points17 points18 points an hour ago* (10 children)
Eh her tone is quite an overkill and I think she dismisses a lot of valid costs with ‘I just want my pizza’. (edit: she didnt create the images, she shared them)
But with regards to the question above. I think Grab’s response is fair given that the calculation posted by some restaurant owners making incorrect assumptions, painting the picture that the big company is sucking up the money even though they are not even profitable. ( though I can see the reason for that being the restaurant owners acting out of financial concerns )
I’m actually surprised they would share this information. Had thought deliveroo would be the one more willing to share on this based on my impression of the companies.
But agree that it’s not sustainable if everyone orders delivery, personally my family is not ordering delivery any more or less than before covid. But we are definitely cooking a lot more.
[–]suicide_aunties 5 points6 points7 points an hour ago (0 children)
Yeah, I concur. Pat is the CEO of a local agency and just adding her random 2 cents that really doesn’t help anyone. I’m sure at least thousands of people saw the post and felt better about ordering Grab as a result, which is a win for “a social media post”.
[–]-jugjug- [score hidden] 57 minutes ago (2 children)
I went to her profile to take a look. She was actually sharing a post by Joshua Ip. The captions were actually written by Joshua, not her. OP's screenshot is quite misleading.
[–]WhatsHappeningApril[S] [score hidden] 37 minutes ago (1 child)
alamak... is there anyway I can replace the picture?
[–]-jugjug- [score hidden] 16 minutes ago (0 children)
Hahaha I don't think can leh? Maybe can clarify in the description
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn -1 points0 points1 point an hour ago (3 children)
Just curious, how can Grab’s response be considered justified if they incorrectly imply that riders are the main reason for their 30% commission rate? Based on their pie, it appears that riders would take home more than 25% of the whole pie. Do you truly believe riders are paid $15 for a singular order of $60? So even if restaurant owners are making assumptions, Grab should not be misrepresenting figures either without any true transparency (note how the pie is vague with little sense of exact percentage points)
[–]justtosavestuffhere [score hidden] 48 minutes ago* (2 children)
Just from a customer POV ah since I’m not a driver. My take on it is that they did say to assume it’s for an order value or 20+ bucks (can’t remember exact amount) which I assume is the average since that is roughly the value of most of my own order also (for 2 people usually).
I think they use some of the 30% commission for drivers incentive but that exact % varies depending on order value. IMO, the larger % amount grab earns on bigger orders gets evened out by smaller orders where they take a smaller %.
So I believe the driver takes potentially 25% for an order that costs about $20-30. Less than 25% for bigger orders like the $60 one you mentioned. And more than 25% for order that are at about $10.
That’s why to me what they posted is more or less ok cause I don’t expect them to go into a lot of details in a social media post. Ah and they shared exact % in the article here: https://www.grab.com/sg/blog/askgrab-where-does-the-merchant-commission-go/
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 33 minutes ago (1 child)
I think the truth is not so simple. My dad is a driver and has disproportionately more orders that are often larger and heavier, as compared to walkers who might receive those $10 orders that you mention. The $20 valuation as the average order is then severely skewed because you then have riders and drivers going islandwide to deliver huge orders, but receiving less than 20% of the pie as implied, whereas cyclist and walkers might receive more than 20% of the pie due to their smaller orders. So while it might be an accurate representation to some, it is certainly not accurate for all, and Grab should have the decency to not try and justify their commision rates for riders/drivers because this affects not only their earning potential but also their tipping rates (how many people would still be willing to tip after prices for deliveries have increased tremendously?) I really pity the days he has to collect 100 over bucks worth of food and then run up and down houses despite being in poor health.
[–]justtosavestuffhere [score hidden] 16 minutes ago (0 children)
I can’t speak for how orders are divided up since I have no idea. But I think grab can only show their breakdown by using an example order and it makes sense to use the average order value.
How does what grab posted affect the driver earning potential though, won’t they be earning the same? If it’s a matter of tipping, I think generally people in Singapore don’t tip cause of culture, but when I do it’s because I feel bad for the driver if it rains etc. the price of the food doesn’t really affect that since I already decided to pay that amount for the food.
I feel bad for your dad as well, imo you can suggest to him alternate driver jobs that doesn’t involve him doing the last mile delivery if carrying the food is difficult for him. My uncle is in logistics and he drives but doesn’t do the loading and unloading. (Not too sure about the details though)
[–]WhatsHappeningApril[S] [score hidden] 57 minutes ago (1 child)
[–]justtosavestuffhere [score hidden] 11 minutes ago (0 children)
edited the comment to reflect that! Thanks for pointing that out!
[–]SamBellFromSarang 11 points12 points13 points an hour ago (2 children)
Grab is cancer but this response is dumb as fuck too. Calling everything wAsTeFuL oVeRhEaD just makes you look like an ignorant fool.
Let's not have customer support, people managing manpower, let's ask Mastercard or whomever to not take their fees, let's fire all our PR and advertising staff so nobody knows what's going on, and let's fire our R&D guys so our app never improves.
Good job, Pat, I'm sure whatever company you make will go far.
CoNtExT Is EveRyThiNG
Ironically, she never contextualised these costs in the scheme of a business.
[–]-jugjug- [score hidden] 58 minutes ago (1 child)
I went to her profile to take a look. She was actually sharing a post by Joshua Ip. The captions were actually written by Joshua, not her. OP's screenshot is quite misleading.
[–]SamBellFromSarang [score hidden] 55 minutes ago (0 children)
Well, OK, both of them suck then.
[–]WhatsHappeningApril[S] 9 points10 points11 points 2 hours ago (0 children)
its a public profile so I didn't remove the name
[–]rexy69420 [score hidden] 35 minutes ago (0 children)
I don't know why but the pfp looks like a typical Karem haircut
[–]linusgrey 3 points4 points5 points an hour ago (0 children)
Already decided to not use any grab food services.
[–]777ABC [score hidden] 12 minutes ago (0 children)
No. They are a business that is bleeding $2 billion a year so they cannot afford to cut their own fats as they have none of it.
Remember Grab have to do a IPO within 3 years so the losses must end now or they cannot list on a decent stock exchange
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn 5 points6 points7 points an hour ago (0 children)
Already shared in an earlier post that Grab is insulting in trying to justify their 30% commission on their riders/drivers incentives. As someone else has worked out previously, riders receive maybe up to about 10% of the pie, not over 20% as it is implied.
Riders are literally frontline essential workers risking their lives, coming into contact with countless people, and should not be having their incentives or pay cut in order to prop up the food delivery business. So if you can’t pay them well enough, don’t try and pretend that you care about them, or manipulate statistics to throw your riders under the bus when faced with pressure from stakeholders and F&b establishment.
[–]Winstonp00 [score hidden] 51 minutes ago (0 children)
No. If it was indeed possible to make a profitable app with less admin overhead, it would've been made. Less platform fee = more incentives for delivery riders and restos = more users and riders.
[–]I_will_take_that 8 points9 points10 points an hour ago (19 children)
I am probably going to get angry replies but why are people demanding grab lower their costs and thinking its their right?
Riders choose to work for grab, merchants choose to work with grab. If you decide to break off from grab, I applaud and salute you and will support you. But if you are sticking with them and demanding they change, then you are a fool. A bloody naive fool.
Capitalism has always worked like that, you want to make a difference, change it yourself. Don't demand others feed you solutions. Pathetic
[–]sakibbfru92 1 point2 points3 points an hour ago (5 children)
I think you missed the point of the post. No one is saying grab should charge less. They are a for profit business and they can do whatever they want to maximise revenue. The criticism is them acting all goody two shoes showing that they are helping the food outlets when they arent
[–]SamBellFromSarang 8 points9 points10 points an hour ago (4 children)
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 58 minutes ago (3 children)
If you have to choose between making a loss of 15% and a loss of 5% which one will you choose? But no matter what you choose, you are still making a loss right? Many businesses are in the red and 2 months of economic uncertainty might wipe them out entirely. Merchants don’t have the luxury of choice; who do you think is likelier to fail after this pandemic is over? Merchants or Grab? Why is it that we always like to suck up to corporations like Grab when they do some social media post but dismiss local F&B establishments when they air their concerns as well? If both are businesses, both have every right to air their grievances.
[–]SamBellFromSarang [score hidden] 57 minutes ago (2 children)
Wait wait wait, if you're saying Grab lessens their loss by 10%, then that DOES mean that they ARE helping food outlets right? Unless you are saying Grab MUST turn that loss to a profit, then where is your evidence that Grab CAN overturn their losses?
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 43 minutes ago (1 child)
I was referring to merchants, not grab. Who do you think is more likely to fail after this is over, grab or the merchants?
[–]SamBellFromSarang [score hidden] 37 minutes ago (0 children)
What do you mean referring to merchants? The 15% and 5% figures? Because read my comment again, I did interprete it correctly.
In any case, whoever fails after this is not important, what is important is that everyone does their job in a legal fashion. If you and me were told to run a kilometre no matter what, and I do just that but you only do half of it and die, do I deserve the blame? You can argue either way but I just did my job. I could've sacrificed myself by picking you up but I'm not obliged to.
It's the same thing here. Grab is doing their job. Grab can make all their services free and give all the money to their merchants, but no, they are a business, not a charity. So they run their kilometre.
You can't blame them for that. Besides, if they fold, all the delivery riders will be jobless and your businesses can't save that 10%.
[–]falkner98 [score hidden] 58 minutes ago (2 children)
you want to earn money just say you want to earn money dont be like grab act like they trying to help but actually they just want to earn money you understand?
[+][deleted] 54 minutes ago (1 child)
[removed]
[–]falkner98 [score hidden] 47 minutes ago (0 children)
they can come up with all sorts of reason like they need the money for their staffs pay system upgrade blah blah
but there is no need to act like a saint and say oh we are already helping all the stall owner like hello? you think people stupid ah?
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn -3 points-2 points-1 points an hour ago (7 children)
Learn basic economics before making such an ill informed rant. Obviously everyone can do what they like in a free market, but there are times when the free market is not working properly and that’s where government intervention comes in. This is a pandemic that has seen rising unemployment and many merchants going out of businesses. If there are too many negative externalities resulting from market imbalance in this particular industry, further resulting in depressed wages and closing of small F&B businesses, do you think the Govt will sit around and do nothing?
That’s the reasons why riders and merchants are both speaking out, and trying to attract attention. Already the Govt has taken small scale steps (subsidising merchants who switch to delivery), so you can’t say all this hoo-ha is for nothing. Obviously we can’t make an inherently capitalistic corporation like Grab see sense directly, but that does not render us helpless since there are many other avenues for us to relay our concerns, social media being one of them. Only when you advocate change, can you truly see change.
[–]I_will_take_that 5 points6 points7 points an hour ago* (6 children)
The fuck you talking about.
Instead of leaving grab and making a change by starting something yourself ( the basics of capitalism) you are forcing the government to take a step because you are lazy and not willing to make a change???
You are one of those people OP is talking about. If you are still with grab, then you are part of the problem. You want to make a difference then create something they would be able to compete against grab or remove a ledge that grab has over you ( a.k.a your own delivery system)
Plenty of hawker shops have done it and I salute them for that. People like you demanding something you choose to sign up for to change instead of making a change are the ones that disgust me
And No, I am not part of grab. I fucking hate them and their business tactics so I have boycotted them since 2 years ago
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 46 minutes ago (5 children)
Again, learn basic economics. Shouting CAPITALISM is not an excuse for exploiting the work force, or for forcing smaller F&B outlets out of business.
And don’t assume people are lazy and not willing to make a change. Market intervention is a legitimate mean (Economic intervention ) to address market failures, and in a mixed economy like Singapore has been used multiple times.
Why do you think the Govt is giving money to citizens and heavily subsidising many industries, effectively propping them up? If we were to follow your CaPItAlistic ideal, they should just leave it to the free market and let the competition sort themselves out right? Or do you think your notion of capitalism will fare better? So therefore the Govt no need to do anything, just let everyone do what they want without any regulation or oversight?
[–]I_will_take_that [score hidden] 43 minutes ago (1 child)
Your example would only work if there is only ONE way to do business.
Exploiting the work force? Exploiting smaller F&B outlets? There are tons of ways to do things rather then rely on any of those food delivery app. The only reason you are sticking with it is because its CONVENIENT.
I have no sympathy for people like you who stick to grab and demand they chane their ways instead of making a difference.
Blocked, get fucked by Grab for all I care. For the hawkers that make a difference? Already ordered my food directly.
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 26 minutes ago (0 children)
Lmao imagine getting so triggered by people demanding accountability and transparency from Grab to actually block them.
I don’t patronise Grab but my Dad is recently unemployed and has no choice but to work for Grabfood so we can survive. I’m asking for measures to protect workers like him, but good job trying to paint people like him in the same brush as lazy and unwilling to make a change.
[–]QuietEmbers [score hidden] 21 minutes ago (2 children)
Bro, stop being such a jargon nerd. I don't recall anyone from my econ days trumpeting their Public Policy textbooks as if they were the panacea to the 'exploitative evils' of big boy corporations. You are confusing economics with your leftist beliefs that the corporate devils were created to pick on you, the little guy.
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 13 minutes ago (1 child)
If you believe that everything Grab does currently is justified, there is no point engaging with you at all. Grab can charge whatever they want and justify it on whatever they want. But if they pay their riders lesser while implying in their chart that they are paying more, that certainly is not justified in my opinion. And that to me is clear exploitation of essential frontline workers who bear the risk of having to congregate in crowded areas, just so they can feed their families, all for some feel good sound bite that Grab can parrot to the public. It’s akin to cutting the wages of Doctors and Nurses and then blaming high operational costs of the Hospital on them. If we truly recognise delivery riders as essential workers, Grab and the whole lot of you wouldn’t be making such statements
[–]jigga133 [score hidden] just now (0 children)
I believe there is no exploitation since you dad is a willing party. He took up the job and signed the agreement with grab to support the family. If you feel that grab job is not rewarding enough, ask him to be social distancing ambassador. NEA is currently hiring, pretty decent pay. None the less kudos to your dad
From what I read from your POV, you are just one self entitled guy who want everything to go your way. Your knowledge of economy is just laughable, and asking people to understand the basic of economy. You should use this time to read up and refresh ur memory.
[–]buttnugchug [score hidden] 40 minutes ago (1 child)
The woke leftist youths will start their Bernie Sanders shit again.
[–]I_will_take_that [score hidden] 39 minutes ago (0 children)
Sorry, I don't read much on american politics and don't really get this comment.
Meme or..?
[–]diceybubbles 2 points3 points4 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
Just curious in terms of legality as it really affects what we can do to push Grab to do something..
Are delivery people ‘freelancers’ and agreeing to be paid for their services, or are they actually employed by Grab?
Because if it is the former, I think all we can do is agree to boycott the app as a petition for them to reduce their fees.
Chip in other ideas and let’s see what we can do against this green giant!
[–]Jammy_buttons2 [score hidden] 43 minutes ago (0 children)
Being valued at 14 billion means shit when your coffers are in the red and you need to pay back your vc
[–]chaotic_goody [score hidden] 12 minutes ago (0 children)
I don’t think that the creator of this post has considered, at all, the challenges of software development and developing and maintaining a payment and delivery platform.
His conclusions also seem to be based on the assumption that Grab provides no value to the ecosystem. I don’t think that is a reasonable assumption.
[–]UnfairHelicopter [score hidden] 5 minutes ago (0 children)
Grab is valued $14B by softbank, and you can see softbank's company valuing skills nowadays with Uber and Wework.
Softbank's analyst skills are second only to Ho Ching.
[–]Yamaguchi_Mr 1 point2 points3 points an hour ago (1 child)
Grab is a cancer. Do not be suckered into their ecosystem. I haven't used them for 6 months, and refuse to use them seeing how they f*** over merchants, drivers, and consumers.
[–]Intentionallyabadger 3 points4 points5 points an hour ago (0 children)
Every year they will look for funding from investors.
One day it will just pop.
Then again, I think TH has some holdings inside Grab so... they are here to stay.
Discussion Did you feel that Grab's response on their commission % is tone deaf? (i.redd.it)
submitted 2 hours ago by WhatsHappeningApril
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[–]ballsie995 25 points26 points27 points an hour ago (0 children)
(these days) companies stock valuation is not a reflection of how much profit they are making. oh well.
[–]sierrakilokilo 7 points8 points9 points an hour ago (1 child)
Hey, actually I am very biased to say they are indeed randomly valued at $14b. Blame it on cheap money or too much hype but how a loss making company can be valued at astronomical multiples?
[–]SamBellFromSarang [score hidden] 52 minutes ago (0 children)
Most valuations are based on things like stocks or assets like servers. It's why Bezos is valued high af but he's actually not very rich; his value is tied to Amazon stock which if he takes out then his company will crash.
[–]coffeeteaormeh 18 points19 points20 points 2 hours ago (1 child)
"you are also part of the problem"
so true.
[–]I_will_take_that [score hidden] 48 minutes ago (0 children)
That's the most frustrating thing about all this people. They want grab to change, instead of making the changes themselves. Learn from Hawkers united. Create something!
Instead of demanding a business make the change, DO something about it. Learn from the shops starting their own delivery system! If you aren't trying something out, then stfu and accept you are just lazy and not willing to move out of your comfort zone
[–]justtosavestuffhere 16 points17 points18 points an hour ago* (10 children)
Eh her tone is quite an overkill and I think she dismisses a lot of valid costs with ‘I just want my pizza’. (edit: she didnt create the images, she shared them)
But with regards to the question above. I think Grab’s response is fair given that the calculation posted by some restaurant owners making incorrect assumptions, painting the picture that the big company is sucking up the money even though they are not even profitable. ( though I can see the reason for that being the restaurant owners acting out of financial concerns )
I’m actually surprised they would share this information. Had thought deliveroo would be the one more willing to share on this based on my impression of the companies.
But agree that it’s not sustainable if everyone orders delivery, personally my family is not ordering delivery any more or less than before covid. But we are definitely cooking a lot more.
[–]suicide_aunties 5 points6 points7 points an hour ago (0 children)
Yeah, I concur. Pat is the CEO of a local agency and just adding her random 2 cents that really doesn’t help anyone. I’m sure at least thousands of people saw the post and felt better about ordering Grab as a result, which is a win for “a social media post”.
[–]-jugjug- [score hidden] 57 minutes ago (2 children)
I went to her profile to take a look. She was actually sharing a post by Joshua Ip. The captions were actually written by Joshua, not her. OP's screenshot is quite misleading.
[–]WhatsHappeningApril[S] [score hidden] 37 minutes ago (1 child)
alamak... is there anyway I can replace the picture?
[–]-jugjug- [score hidden] 16 minutes ago (0 children)
Hahaha I don't think can leh? Maybe can clarify in the description
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn -1 points0 points1 point an hour ago (3 children)
Just curious, how can Grab’s response be considered justified if they incorrectly imply that riders are the main reason for their 30% commission rate? Based on their pie, it appears that riders would take home more than 25% of the whole pie. Do you truly believe riders are paid $15 for a singular order of $60? So even if restaurant owners are making assumptions, Grab should not be misrepresenting figures either without any true transparency (note how the pie is vague with little sense of exact percentage points)
[–]justtosavestuffhere [score hidden] 48 minutes ago* (2 children)
Just from a customer POV ah since I’m not a driver. My take on it is that they did say to assume it’s for an order value or 20+ bucks (can’t remember exact amount) which I assume is the average since that is roughly the value of most of my own order also (for 2 people usually).
I think they use some of the 30% commission for drivers incentive but that exact % varies depending on order value. IMO, the larger % amount grab earns on bigger orders gets evened out by smaller orders where they take a smaller %.
So I believe the driver takes potentially 25% for an order that costs about $20-30. Less than 25% for bigger orders like the $60 one you mentioned. And more than 25% for order that are at about $10.
That’s why to me what they posted is more or less ok cause I don’t expect them to go into a lot of details in a social media post. Ah and they shared exact % in the article here: https://www.grab.com/sg/blog/askgrab-where-does-the-merchant-commission-go/
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 33 minutes ago (1 child)
I think the truth is not so simple. My dad is a driver and has disproportionately more orders that are often larger and heavier, as compared to walkers who might receive those $10 orders that you mention. The $20 valuation as the average order is then severely skewed because you then have riders and drivers going islandwide to deliver huge orders, but receiving less than 20% of the pie as implied, whereas cyclist and walkers might receive more than 20% of the pie due to their smaller orders. So while it might be an accurate representation to some, it is certainly not accurate for all, and Grab should have the decency to not try and justify their commision rates for riders/drivers because this affects not only their earning potential but also their tipping rates (how many people would still be willing to tip after prices for deliveries have increased tremendously?) I really pity the days he has to collect 100 over bucks worth of food and then run up and down houses despite being in poor health.
[–]justtosavestuffhere [score hidden] 16 minutes ago (0 children)
I can’t speak for how orders are divided up since I have no idea. But I think grab can only show their breakdown by using an example order and it makes sense to use the average order value.
How does what grab posted affect the driver earning potential though, won’t they be earning the same? If it’s a matter of tipping, I think generally people in Singapore don’t tip cause of culture, but when I do it’s because I feel bad for the driver if it rains etc. the price of the food doesn’t really affect that since I already decided to pay that amount for the food.
I feel bad for your dad as well, imo you can suggest to him alternate driver jobs that doesn’t involve him doing the last mile delivery if carrying the food is difficult for him. My uncle is in logistics and he drives but doesn’t do the loading and unloading. (Not too sure about the details though)
[–]WhatsHappeningApril[S] [score hidden] 57 minutes ago (1 child)
Actually she didn't write that! She was just replying to someone else who did the picture which included the "I want my pizza". Sorry it wasn't clear in my post.
[–]justtosavestuffhere [score hidden] 11 minutes ago (0 children)
edited the comment to reflect that! Thanks for pointing that out!
[–]SamBellFromSarang 11 points12 points13 points an hour ago (2 children)
Grab is cancer but this response is dumb as fuck too. Calling everything wAsTeFuL oVeRhEaD just makes you look like an ignorant fool.
Let's not have customer support, people managing manpower, let's ask Mastercard or whomever to not take their fees, let's fire all our PR and advertising staff so nobody knows what's going on, and let's fire our R&D guys so our app never improves.
Good job, Pat, I'm sure whatever company you make will go far.
CoNtExT Is EveRyThiNG
Ironically, she never contextualised these costs in the scheme of a business.
[–]-jugjug- [score hidden] 58 minutes ago (1 child)
I went to her profile to take a look. She was actually sharing a post by Joshua Ip. The captions were actually written by Joshua, not her. OP's screenshot is quite misleading.
[–]SamBellFromSarang [score hidden] 55 minutes ago (0 children)
Well, OK, both of them suck then.
[–]WhatsHappeningApril[S] 9 points10 points11 points 2 hours ago (0 children)
its a public profile so I didn't remove the name
[–]rexy69420 [score hidden] 35 minutes ago (0 children)
I don't know why but the pfp looks like a typical Karem haircut
[–]linusgrey 3 points4 points5 points an hour ago (0 children)
Already decided to not use any grab food services.
[–]777ABC [score hidden] 12 minutes ago (0 children)
No. They are a business that is bleeding $2 billion a year so they cannot afford to cut their own fats as they have none of it.
Remember Grab have to do a IPO within 3 years so the losses must end now or they cannot list on a decent stock exchange
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn 5 points6 points7 points an hour ago (0 children)
Already shared in an earlier post that Grab is insulting in trying to justify their 30% commission on their riders/drivers incentives. As someone else has worked out previously, riders receive maybe up to about 10% of the pie, not over 20% as it is implied.
Riders are literally frontline essential workers risking their lives, coming into contact with countless people, and should not be having their incentives or pay cut in order to prop up the food delivery business. So if you can’t pay them well enough, don’t try and pretend that you care about them, or manipulate statistics to throw your riders under the bus when faced with pressure from stakeholders and F&b establishment.
[–]Winstonp00 [score hidden] 51 minutes ago (0 children)
No. If it was indeed possible to make a profitable app with less admin overhead, it would've been made. Less platform fee = more incentives for delivery riders and restos = more users and riders.
[–]I_will_take_that 8 points9 points10 points an hour ago (19 children)
I am probably going to get angry replies but why are people demanding grab lower their costs and thinking its their right?
Riders choose to work for grab, merchants choose to work with grab. If you decide to break off from grab, I applaud and salute you and will support you. But if you are sticking with them and demanding they change, then you are a fool. A bloody naive fool.
Capitalism has always worked like that, you want to make a difference, change it yourself. Don't demand others feed you solutions. Pathetic
[–]sakibbfru92 1 point2 points3 points an hour ago (5 children)
I think you missed the point of the post. No one is saying grab should charge less. They are a for profit business and they can do whatever they want to maximise revenue. The criticism is them acting all goody two shoes showing that they are helping the food outlets when they arent
[–]SamBellFromSarang 8 points9 points10 points an hour ago (4 children)
They aren't? Where's your evidence that they aren't? Why are merchants signing up if they get nothing out of it?
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 58 minutes ago (3 children)
If you have to choose between making a loss of 15% and a loss of 5% which one will you choose? But no matter what you choose, you are still making a loss right? Many businesses are in the red and 2 months of economic uncertainty might wipe them out entirely. Merchants don’t have the luxury of choice; who do you think is likelier to fail after this pandemic is over? Merchants or Grab? Why is it that we always like to suck up to corporations like Grab when they do some social media post but dismiss local F&B establishments when they air their concerns as well? If both are businesses, both have every right to air their grievances.
[–]SamBellFromSarang [score hidden] 57 minutes ago (2 children)
Wait wait wait, if you're saying Grab lessens their loss by 10%, then that DOES mean that they ARE helping food outlets right? Unless you are saying Grab MUST turn that loss to a profit, then where is your evidence that Grab CAN overturn their losses?
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 43 minutes ago (1 child)
I was referring to merchants, not grab. Who do you think is more likely to fail after this is over, grab or the merchants?
[–]SamBellFromSarang [score hidden] 37 minutes ago (0 children)
What do you mean referring to merchants? The 15% and 5% figures? Because read my comment again, I did interprete it correctly.
In any case, whoever fails after this is not important, what is important is that everyone does their job in a legal fashion. If you and me were told to run a kilometre no matter what, and I do just that but you only do half of it and die, do I deserve the blame? You can argue either way but I just did my job. I could've sacrificed myself by picking you up but I'm not obliged to.
It's the same thing here. Grab is doing their job. Grab can make all their services free and give all the money to their merchants, but no, they are a business, not a charity. So they run their kilometre.
You can't blame them for that. Besides, if they fold, all the delivery riders will be jobless and your businesses can't save that 10%.
[–]falkner98 [score hidden] 58 minutes ago (2 children)
you want to earn money just say you want to earn money dont be like grab act like they trying to help but actually they just want to earn money you understand?
[+][deleted] 54 minutes ago (1 child)
[removed]
[–]falkner98 [score hidden] 47 minutes ago (0 children)
they can come up with all sorts of reason like they need the money for their staffs pay system upgrade blah blah
but there is no need to act like a saint and say oh we are already helping all the stall owner like hello? you think people stupid ah?
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn -3 points-2 points-1 points an hour ago (7 children)
Learn basic economics before making such an ill informed rant. Obviously everyone can do what they like in a free market, but there are times when the free market is not working properly and that’s where government intervention comes in. This is a pandemic that has seen rising unemployment and many merchants going out of businesses. If there are too many negative externalities resulting from market imbalance in this particular industry, further resulting in depressed wages and closing of small F&B businesses, do you think the Govt will sit around and do nothing?
That’s the reasons why riders and merchants are both speaking out, and trying to attract attention. Already the Govt has taken small scale steps (subsidising merchants who switch to delivery), so you can’t say all this hoo-ha is for nothing. Obviously we can’t make an inherently capitalistic corporation like Grab see sense directly, but that does not render us helpless since there are many other avenues for us to relay our concerns, social media being one of them. Only when you advocate change, can you truly see change.
[–]I_will_take_that 5 points6 points7 points an hour ago* (6 children)
The fuck you talking about.
Instead of leaving grab and making a change by starting something yourself ( the basics of capitalism) you are forcing the government to take a step because you are lazy and not willing to make a change???
You are one of those people OP is talking about. If you are still with grab, then you are part of the problem. You want to make a difference then create something they would be able to compete against grab or remove a ledge that grab has over you ( a.k.a your own delivery system)
Plenty of hawker shops have done it and I salute them for that. People like you demanding something you choose to sign up for to change instead of making a change are the ones that disgust me
And No, I am not part of grab. I fucking hate them and their business tactics so I have boycotted them since 2 years ago
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 46 minutes ago (5 children)
Again, learn basic economics. Shouting CAPITALISM is not an excuse for exploiting the work force, or for forcing smaller F&B outlets out of business.
And don’t assume people are lazy and not willing to make a change. Market intervention is a legitimate mean (Economic intervention ) to address market failures, and in a mixed economy like Singapore has been used multiple times.
Why do you think the Govt is giving money to citizens and heavily subsidising many industries, effectively propping them up? If we were to follow your CaPItAlistic ideal, they should just leave it to the free market and let the competition sort themselves out right? Or do you think your notion of capitalism will fare better? So therefore the Govt no need to do anything, just let everyone do what they want without any regulation or oversight?
[–]I_will_take_that [score hidden] 43 minutes ago (1 child)
Your example would only work if there is only ONE way to do business.
Exploiting the work force? Exploiting smaller F&B outlets? There are tons of ways to do things rather then rely on any of those food delivery app. The only reason you are sticking with it is because its CONVENIENT.
I have no sympathy for people like you who stick to grab and demand they chane their ways instead of making a difference.
Blocked, get fucked by Grab for all I care. For the hawkers that make a difference? Already ordered my food directly.
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 26 minutes ago (0 children)
Lmao imagine getting so triggered by people demanding accountability and transparency from Grab to actually block them.
I don’t patronise Grab but my Dad is recently unemployed and has no choice but to work for Grabfood so we can survive. I’m asking for measures to protect workers like him, but good job trying to paint people like him in the same brush as lazy and unwilling to make a change.
[–]QuietEmbers [score hidden] 21 minutes ago (2 children)
Bro, stop being such a jargon nerd. I don't recall anyone from my econ days trumpeting their Public Policy textbooks as if they were the panacea to the 'exploitative evils' of big boy corporations. You are confusing economics with your leftist beliefs that the corporate devils were created to pick on you, the little guy.
[–]Bryannnnnnnnnnnnnnn [score hidden] 13 minutes ago (1 child)
If you believe that everything Grab does currently is justified, there is no point engaging with you at all. Grab can charge whatever they want and justify it on whatever they want. But if they pay their riders lesser while implying in their chart that they are paying more, that certainly is not justified in my opinion. And that to me is clear exploitation of essential frontline workers who bear the risk of having to congregate in crowded areas, just so they can feed their families, all for some feel good sound bite that Grab can parrot to the public. It’s akin to cutting the wages of Doctors and Nurses and then blaming high operational costs of the Hospital on them. If we truly recognise delivery riders as essential workers, Grab and the whole lot of you wouldn’t be making such statements
[–]jigga133 [score hidden] just now (0 children)
I believe there is no exploitation since you dad is a willing party. He took up the job and signed the agreement with grab to support the family. If you feel that grab job is not rewarding enough, ask him to be social distancing ambassador. NEA is currently hiring, pretty decent pay. None the less kudos to your dad
From what I read from your POV, you are just one self entitled guy who want everything to go your way. Your knowledge of economy is just laughable, and asking people to understand the basic of economy. You should use this time to read up and refresh ur memory.
[–]buttnugchug [score hidden] 40 minutes ago (1 child)
The woke leftist youths will start their Bernie Sanders shit again.
[–]I_will_take_that [score hidden] 39 minutes ago (0 children)
Sorry, I don't read much on american politics and don't really get this comment.
Meme or..?
[–]diceybubbles 2 points3 points4 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
Just curious in terms of legality as it really affects what we can do to push Grab to do something..
Are delivery people ‘freelancers’ and agreeing to be paid for their services, or are they actually employed by Grab?
Because if it is the former, I think all we can do is agree to boycott the app as a petition for them to reduce their fees.
Chip in other ideas and let’s see what we can do against this green giant!
[–]Jammy_buttons2 [score hidden] 43 minutes ago (0 children)
Being valued at 14 billion means shit when your coffers are in the red and you need to pay back your vc
[–]chaotic_goody [score hidden] 12 minutes ago (0 children)
I don’t think that the creator of this post has considered, at all, the challenges of software development and developing and maintaining a payment and delivery platform.
His conclusions also seem to be based on the assumption that Grab provides no value to the ecosystem. I don’t think that is a reasonable assumption.
[–]UnfairHelicopter [score hidden] 5 minutes ago (0 children)
Grab is valued $14B by softbank, and you can see softbank's company valuing skills nowadays with Uber and Wework.
Softbank's analyst skills are second only to Ho Ching.
[–]Yamaguchi_Mr 1 point2 points3 points an hour ago (1 child)
Grab is a cancer. Do not be suckered into their ecosystem. I haven't used them for 6 months, and refuse to use them seeing how they f*** over merchants, drivers, and consumers.
[–]Intentionallyabadger 3 points4 points5 points an hour ago (0 children)
Every year they will look for funding from investors.
One day it will just pop.
Then again, I think TH has some holdings inside Grab so... they are here to stay.
