God My Healer.

[Conqueror]

Bye

guys, my leave ends today. I have quite enjoyed chatting with you guys and i hope we continue to do so. We can continue this thread or maybe you guys would like to start another thread on something different to discuss and share.
My response to your posts may not be so quick once work starts but i will do my best.
Please also understand that at my level, i will never be able to answer any or all of your questions. Even the best pastor or Bible student wont be able to do so for that matter. Cheers.

I advice is to really seek Him out. If He really reveal Himself to you, you will be surprise that all these while you seem to have been wasting your time. There many folds but ONLY ONE is His. There cannot be so many versions of ministries or churches. One flock, one fold, one shepherd.

Good Luck !

 

[drifter]

Other animals do not waste their time and energy questioning whether there is a god. They just get on with doing things which are useful to them.

animals dont save another animals ..human save another human by stoping spreading delusional minds ..

 

[God my healer]

you see , what you said does not answer any of the questions posed.
you just trying to side step the questions , simply because you don't have the answers.
firstly , if you are a chinese , most likely you became a christain because you followed you friend to the church or you come from a mission school.
you see older generation burning joss stick and paper , you see people getting marry in church , you think christain is a modern , trendy thing to follow.
after a few visit to the church , you already decided to be a christain , based on your person biased opinions and liking.
so after years of being a christain , suddenly , you are given proof that the thing is not what it said to be.
but your ego is too big to admit the mistake. you rather fight to the end to protect yourself from being seem as a fool for those past years.
you cannot never change a person mindset that is cast in stone.

Hi i am chinese but i didnt follow any friend to church. I went myself.
I didnt think Christianity was modern when i decided to be a christian. I had been going to church on and off for many many years , more than 20 in fact before i took it more seriously.
There are some things people believe in with all their hearts and they hold these things dear.
Do you think it is right to call them names and make such comments ?
If your answer is yes then ok, at least i understand you better.
As to your other questions, let me look at them again. I must have missed answering them.
Anyway you must understand that it is not possible for me to answer all you guys' tough questions. No one can.
I can only offer some thoughts.

 

[God my healer]

there is a saying; Philosophy have questions without answers, whereas religions are answers without questions.

what you do in your work is a closed system process, it require minimum brain works, and the variables aren't many. doesnt take an einstein to do either your or my jobs.

i asked my fellow xtian believers; who wrote the first 4 gospels? nobody want to dwell on the facts that these are written by unknown authors with 2nd, 3rd or unverifiable accounts or relationship with the jesus figure. but believers will cling onto the hope that all words are "inspired" by god.

a religious mind is held hostage by fear, and beyond the mental walls, believers are imprisoned in. I too was in the same boat, lacking higher mindsets to guide me.

as the passage goes; see and you do not perceive, hear and you do not listen, and i may add; understand but you dont question.

until you are willing to let go your mental shackle, there is little that i can do. I understand how binding religions are and they are a hard things to let go. I wont insult nor condemn any believers, im only dead against those religious pastor charlatans that use religions to pull in influence, power and money for themselves, and impose their stupidity and will on others.

Hi fishbuff. I do appreciate that you dont condemn people who have different faiths and values. Like you i am also very annoyed with those who use religion and its pull to further their own ends.
The 4 gospels were written by:
Matthew : He was a tax collector who eventually became a disciple. He would have been a good eyewitness.
Mark : Not a disciple , was quite young when Jesus doing His ministry. Mark likely saw Jesus in action a lot and he also helped the apostles Peter and Paul very much and was also a good witness.
Luke: The only non Jew. He helped Paul and learnt a lot about Jesus from the other disciples and compiled these facts painstakingly and in great detail.
John: Like Matthew, one of the 12 inner core of disciples.

 

[Perspective]

how do you know it is true? read those bible passages below. do we cherry pick those that we want, and discard those that dont agree with society? hmmm...

http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm

New Testament Verses Which Demand Following the Old Testament and Law Contradictions:

I hear so many Christians now a days claim that the Old Testament is defunct for Jesus was the “lamb” to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another bullshit scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their god. Their preachers spoon feed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes. I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it! After this section I shall list where the Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.

Many of these intepretations result from reading out of context and out of not within understanding of Christianity. For example, the first part predominantly questions the need for law after Jesus death is ambigious. When did Jesus death ever mean "evil is no longer evil" or "evil has become the norm"? Until today, the law remains and man continues to be unable to fulfill it. That isn't very difficult to understand for me, but apparently difficult, intentionally (?), for the writer.

A lot of it also focuses on cruel death in the world. As far as man is concerned, nobody ever dies in existence.

I probably may rebut every single point but will skip the long shopping lists that I have seen many a time, and go to the last one. "Graven image" means an image that man makes to replace God with it. In hebrew, the two words mean idolatory, period. God is extremely particular about this. He said to make cherubims but never told man to worship these cherubims in His place, did He? And then, toys like Superman or Batman would be against the bible!

The issue in Christianity is to understand the worldview from it, then go to the bible to read and a lot of things will make sense. It is understanding of God's character.

 

[drifter]

That is (partly) false premise and there is no such thing as Christian vs Science are mutually exclusive. Many scientists are Christians and of course many are not. The former contributes to advancement and it is in one person's words "discovering the creation of God". The latter also for the pure sake of humanity.

The difference is, when a robber robs a bank, the Christian would acknowledge that thieves exist in this world and call the police, the scientist would wonder why thieves exist in this world and go to the library to study criminal psychology. In this case, does the scientist sound more intelligent?

yes , many scientists are also delusional in their private life ...they know that certain things are impossible such as stayin alive for 3 days in fish stomach ...yet they refuse to admit it ..see how evil religion is ? they will try to brainwashed all the smart ppl too .

you dont need to have a religion to know that thieves exist in the world ...police dont wonder why thieves exist too ...police find evidence of their crime . scientist also find evidence so that the police can charge them in court and not put them to " hell " . thats the different . of course scientist and police are more intelligent ...they arrest suspects . and charge them in court .criminals do not need to wait 1 year 2 years , 10 years or after they die for judgementday

if god is real and useful , the world do not need hospital , police ....ect .

 

[God my healer]

hi G& C,

for points 1 & 2, Having the ability to make choice does not mean that Adam/Eve were imperfect. A robot with a well written programme is perfect even though it cannot choose to do anything different from its written programme. But being rigidly perfect is not what God wanted. He wanted His crown creation to choose perfection through obedience.But as we know, they chose to sin after being tempted .
The Bible does say that humans are created in the likeness of God and one of these characteristics is the ability to choose.

Romans 3:25 indicates that those who sinned before Christ came would be save also through Christ's death. Abraham in the old testament believed and it was credited to him as righteousness ( saved ). The people who lived before Christ came were saved based on Christ's future death on the cross.
Its like is if a ' credit card ' given to them. Today its like we have ' gift vouchers ' for our salvation. All these are redeemed by faith whether before or after Christ.

The Jews, Muslims and Christian believe in the same God as Creator but later on went different ways. We believe that salvation comes through belief in Christ as written many times in the Bible. Please note guys that I am not saying anyone's way is wrong or whatever. I am just stating what i believe.

OK , me also not trying to preach anything or converting anyone here.
But seeing people are blinded by their over zealous devotion and refused to admit their folly even when logical and factual reason are there ,
i have to just give a pointer to wake them up.

you said : The sinless man he created fell into sin so that ruined the relationship. God could have intervened in the garden of Eden but that would have taken away Adam/Eve's choice. . He still gives us a chance to be with Him.

don't you think the above very contradicting ?
1] christain claimed that god is perfect and full of kindness.
how can a perfect god created something that is imperfect ? a sinless man that can become sinful ?

2] why do god have to let adam and eve make a choice ?
the notion of having to choose is in itself an imperfection.
if everything is perfect why is there a need to choose ?

3] God's way to restore the relationship is through Jesus.
but jesus came very much later after adam and eve died and after the descendant of adam died.
so adam and eve and their descendant got no chance at all ?

you know the thing is full of holes but you just do no want to admit it.
it is very understandable.
people stick to what they believe due to :
1] this is their culture , eg : all malay in malaysia will automatically be a muslim from the moment they are born.
2] people has believed in this for a very long period , and it is difficult to admit that the belief is wrong. due to a huge EGO.
3] people not willing to change due to peer or family pressure.

let me ask you this :
muslim believe in a creator god , believe in the god will save you from hell
christain believe in a creator god , believe in the god will save you from hell.

so why are you not a muslim ?
after all the end result is the same.

 

[fishbuff]

Hi fishbuff. I do appreciate that you dont condemn people who have different faiths and values. Like you i am also very annoyed with those who use religion and its pull to further their own ends.
The 4 gospels were written by:
Matthew : He was a tax collector who eventually became a disciple. He would have been a good eyewitness.
Mark : Not a disciple , was quite young when Jesus doing His ministry. Mark likely saw Jesus in action a lot and he also helped the apostles Peter and Paul very much and was also a good witness.
Luke: The only non Jew. He helped Paul and learnt a lot about Jesus from the other disciples and compiled these facts painstakingly and in great detail.
John: Like Matthew, one of the 12 inner core of disciples.

the authors of the gospels arent that clear. see below links;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_luke

there are heaps of books available at amazon that depicted the various "versions" of early christians. ranging from arianism to subordinationism to apophaticism, as well as agnostism. after the council of Nicaea, ireneaus and other ordained priests that emperor constantine had ordained, went out and get rid of all various christian sects that had alternate views after the finialization of the Nicene decree. only those that are further away like the coptic church and some ethopian churches were spared.

if you ask me, after going thru' all the history notes, and decree given to Peter, the real church is the church that has the lineage from Peter, the disciple of jesus, and if we stick by the rule of passing the church's authority down from one successor to another, the catholic church should be the authorative church from christ, and the rest should be considered as "heretic".

im surprised that no one in the church in singapore mention about all these; irenaeus' deeds, council of Nicaea, codex vaticanus, codex augustinus, codex sinaiticus, other missing apocryphal books like gospels of thomas, mary, judas and peter's revelation, as well as book of enoch, life of adam and eve. of all which, the authors were unknown. The book of moses, as what historians had indicated, were written when the Israelis were captured by the Assyrians and sent out to the victor's country.

all the churches jumped right into the belief of jesus and his mission, and zero on how the chrisitanity religion begin like a historians. Left out as a convenience or incovenience?

 

[drifter]

On this point, God was preparing for the coming of the Messiah and the world became too corrupted for this to occur. Thereafter, laws and commandments were instituted to guide people and avoid the world of the pre-Noah days.

so why do we need police now ? do we need country law too ?

 

[God my healer]

i havent read much about the Church history to be honest, but yes i think you are correct that the Catholic church should be the authorative church.
Many of the early breakups were because of slight differences and in the case of the Anglicans because of a marriage issue.
Today there are many different denominations but the basics of the faith, the pillars remain intact.
It is saddening to see these church leaders focussing on the differences thereby causing the schisms.
It would be much better for all the Christians to focus on the main same beliefs and work around and respect the differences.
But that would be very difficult because humans whether Christian or otherwise are still affected by pride, selfishness and such other baggage.
Cheers my friend.

the authors of the gospels arent that clear. see below links;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_luke

there are heaps of books available at amazon that depicted the various "versions" of early christians. ranging from arianism to subordinationism to apophaticism, as well as agnostism. after the council of Nicaea, ireneaus and other ordained priests that emperor constantine had ordained, went out and get rid of all various christian sects that had alternate views after the finialization of the Nicene decree. only those that are further away like the coptic church and some ethopian churches were spared.

if you ask me, after going thru' all the history notes, and decree given to Peter, the real church is the church that has the lineage from Peter, the disciple of jesus, and if we stick by the rule of passing the church's authority down from one successor to another, the catholic church should be the authorative church from christ, and the rest should be considered as "heretic".

im surprised that no one in the church in singapore mention about all these; irenaeus' deeds, council of Nicaea, codex vaticanus, codex augustinus, codex sinaiticus, other missing apocryphal books like gospels of thomas, mary, judas and peter's revelation, as well as book of enoch, life of adam and eve. of all which, the authors were unknown. The book of moses, as what historians had indicated, were written when the Israelis were captured by the Assyrians and sent out to the victor's country.

all the churches jumped right into the belief of jesus and his mission, and zero on how the chrisitanity religion begin like a historians. Left out as a convenience or incovenience?

 

[drifter]

hey drifter. Please i do not take offence. I appreciate your honesty. I only ask that you keep expressing yourself like this , truthfully from the heart .

No one should have a problem with that.

Cheers.

thankyou . have a happy new year .

 

[drifter]

Christianity is not like science. If what is in it is true, it can never lose its relevance.[/QUOTE

of course christianity is not science .

 

[drifter]

agreed brother Perspective. Satan and his agents acknowledge God and Jesus many times in the Bible. Satan even knows but twists Scripture as evidenced in the Gospel of Matthew where he tempted Jesus in the desert.

satan , god are created by human being ...of course they acknowledge each other .

 

[drifter]

Hi NF, they shouldnt do violence and should be magnanimous. I wholeheartedly agree.

But please remember that these are human beings who are fallible. People do not have to be perfect to come to God but it is the other way round. They come to God to be made better. During the process of the journey they sure to fail and fall in their behaviour. I think there is no miracle jump to become perfect all of a sudden. So you will surely see this type of behaviour wherever you go whether christian, Buddhist, Hindu , Muslim , non believer in God or anybody.
The teaching is not violent unless you have deviant teachers .
So in the end the story is that we should not be violent but should try to resolve differences in an agreeable manner, just like we try to on this thread.
Disagree sure, but in an agreeable manner.

as i said before ...all religion love to preach peace but the reality is they always think their is better then other god ..thats why all christains always preach " believe in jesus will go heaven " , " come to jesus and be saved " . means what ? other ppl believe in their own religion cant go heaven ?

 

[drifter]

Thanks for agreeing again - the last time that lightning created from nothing is illogical. This time that man is different. Do you know, only the bible bothers to explain both, even if people do not believe it.

go and study how lightning comes about before you come here and start talking about lightning ...since when bible explain how lighting comes about ? bible is just like other story book ( dont even make sense , how to believe ) , do you believe in fairy tales book ? i dont .

 

[drifter]

yes, it is liberating. i love science a lot since young and it has been logger headed with religions in my mind since my teachers had influenced me. not to mention the constant bombardment from pastors and christian believers. i dont think i can afford that freedom in SG, swimming against the mainstream of mass delusions is extremely difficult.

now my mind is free, no more junks from Ken Miller, young earth creationism or intelligence design!

i hope more people will be like you think logically ...we dont need any religion excuses to do good in life , we dont need any rewards of promising heaven ticket . or hell ...we do good because of mankind whether we receieved any rewards after death is not important ...we learn that life is full of ups and downs and we accecpt it as it is ...we have the courage to face any problem in life cause we only live once ...make full use of our one and only life .

 

[Perspective]

yes , many scientists are also delusional in their private life ...they know that certain things are impossible such as stayin alive for 3 days in fish stomach ...yet they refuse to admit it ..see how evil religion is ? they will try to brainwashed all the smart ppl too .

Well it seems you are bringing up something agreeable again. Precisely because some scientists know not everything can be explained by science. Just because you don't believe one specific thing like a man in fish for 3 days doesn't mean it is unbelievable that some things cannot be explained by science and/or some have even witnessed it. Scientists are one of the best people to know because they know what can be explained by science, compared to laymen. A builder knows PVC pipes cannot be used for water supply, to the layman, he probably thinks the builder is uncreative or trying to save costs because toilet pipes are PVC. People who know least are often the most "kay kiang".

you dont need to have a religion to know that thieves exist in the world ...police dont wonder why thieves exist too ...police find evidence of their crime . scientist also find evidence so that the police can charge them in court and not put them to " hell " . thats the different . of course scientist and police are more intelligent ...they arrest suspects . and charge them in court .criminals do not need to wait 1 year 2 years , 10 years or after they die for judgementday if god is real and useful , the world do not need hospital , police ....ect .

I suggest if you are not sure what the discussion was about, you might want to review. People are normally the same when in comes to politics in the political discussions. When people who tasted smelly tofu says it smells like raw fish, I don't hear another rebut that tofu is different from fish although both contains calcium, calcium doesn't smell. That is a sign that people are rather lost in the discussion.

 

[Perspective]

go and study how lightning comes about before you come here and start talking about lightning ...since when bible explain how lighting comes about ? bible is just like other story book ( dont even make sense , how to believe ) , do you believe in fairy tales book ? i dont .

The bible says God created everything. Again you might want to re-read - I have not said what causes lightning - I said lightning cannot come out of nothing.

 

[Perspective]

of course christianity is not science .

You really seem quite bad at this. Post after post. I said Christianity is not like science, not Christianity is not science. When I say iron is not like cloth, another chap comes in comparing the suitability of iron for making clothes compared to cloth. Which idiot will make clothes from iron.

Whatever the case, no one will argue that maths not like accounts, therefore only one will contain numbers.

A HAPPY AND BLESSED NEW YEAR, Drifter and all.

 

[drifter]

Well it seems you are bringing up something agreeable again. Precisely because some scientists know not everything can be explained by science. Just because you don't believe one specific thing like a man in fish for 3 days doesn't mean it is unbelievable that some things cannot be explained by science and/or some have even witnessed it. Scientists are one of the best people to know because they know what can be explained by science, compared to laymen. A builder knows PVC pipes cannot be used for water supply, to the layman, he probably thinks the builder is uncreative or trying to save costs because toilet pipes are PVC. People who know least are often the most "kay kiang".



I suggest if you are not sure what the discussion was about, you might want to review. People are normally the same when in comes to politics in the political discussions. When people who tasted smelly tofu says it smells like raw fish, I don't hear another rebut that tofu is different from fish although both contains calcium, calcium doesn't smell. That is a sign that people are rather lost in the discussion.

yes scientist do not say they know everything but everyday they discover new stuff ..unlike you reigious ppl always said your god knows everything ...you guys are being proud although you know nothing . every single things on earth got to do with your invisibleman . by the way , who created internet , cellphone , tv ...ect . its not your god ..its human . you people dont have any proof that human can stay alive for 3 days in a fish stomach yet you believe . to you delusion ppl there no need to use proof ..you just blindly agreed whats in your storybook . that is what blind faith is all about ...congrats you are a living example . you are trying very hard to compare and justify your delusion with tofu ...nice try but its not good enough