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Facts: The real reasons for the music instrument ban during Thaipusam

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Re: Ah Neh Who Assaulted Police Denies Being Drunk!

To solve Singapore's problems, all the foreigners should leave and the land should be returned to the Malays.

They did an excellent job of preserving the peace and tranquility of the Island until the damned chinks showed up.
 

Cerebral

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
they could've taken sample after his arrest but that's not the point here, as he's being charged for disorderly behaviour and assault.
he doesn't deny having a few drinks, only that he wasn't drunk (and not truly drunk as you say, which is subjective as the level is diff with each ind) and this can raise the level of bravado and mamadrama, esp in a crowd.

Then why does police release the info that they are drunk? The reporters will attend the briefing and that is where the facts of the case is released. If not, where they get info from?
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Re: S iswaran: Please don't overreact about the thaipusam incident

Then why does police release the info that they are drunk? The reporters will attend the briefing and that is where the facts of the case is released. If not, where they get info from?

The majority of Ah Nehs are drunk at any sort of function or celebration so the statement is statistically sound.
 

xebay11

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Ah Neh Who Assaulted Police Denies Being Drunk!

I always thought intoxication was a strong defense, rather than being sobre.
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Ah Neh Who Assaulted Police Denies Being Drunk!

To solve Singapore's problems, all the foreigners should leave and the land should be returned to the Malays.

They did an excellent job of preserving the peace and tranquility of the Island until the damned chinks showed up.

What does chinese have to do here nigger?
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
You need to realize, Indians are very privileged in Singapore, because roads are closed off for their religious festivals. Count your blessings.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Yeah! Man, if during my funeral anybody try to stop my guys from blowing trumpets and beating drums I will jump out and kick that fucker in the ass

Must remind you that, there is one, the "SPECIAL ONE" has that privilege to jump up & out during a funeral & maybe get up & walk out, when they box Is being burned too...ARE YOU THAT SPECIAL ONE TOO?:biggrin:
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Ah Neh Who Assaulted Police Denies Being Drunk!

To solve Singapore's problems, all the foreigners should leave and the land should be returned to the Malays.

They did an excellent job of preserving the peace and tranquility of the Island until the damned chinks showed up.

Greed and avarice. That is what you expect of a bunch of chinks running the government!
 

makapaaa

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
FAP Lam Pin Min Did Not Check Facts on Thaipusam Incident Before Trying to Score Pts

[h=1]THAIPUSAM INCIDENT - MP SHOULD GET FACTS FIRST BEFORE COMMENTING[/h]
Post date:
7 Feb 2015 - 9:38am









The incident at Tuesday's Thaipusam festival/procession is now the talk of the town. Briefly, a fracas broke out between some devotees and police officers over the use of musical instruments at the procession in Serangoon Road.

The use of such instruments and the playing of music is banned in Singapore for religious events which include foot processions.

Law Minister K Shanmugam gave a lengthy and much appreciated explanation, although we may still disagree with him on the ban. (See his explanation here: "Hindus given special privileges: Shanmugam".

Whether the ban is justified or not should be debated civilly, and indeed this was what Mr Shanmugam said.

"[Is] there a case for allowing musical instruments to be played during the Thaipusam foot procession, in support of the kavadi carriers?" he asked.

"This is a matter that can be debated. There were incidents in the past which led to the tightening up. Whether the rules should be relaxed, and whether and under what conditions music should be allowed during the Thaipusam processions, is something HEB has to discuss with the agencies. HEB has relaxed the rules last year within the temple premises."

I think that is reasonable. All parties involved should come together and discuss this.

What we do not need is for Members of Parliament to jump to conclusions and add fuel to the fire which is already burning.

And in this regard, one has to question the Facebook posting of the MP for Sengkang West, Lam Pin Min.

On 4 February, Wednesday, Dr Lam posted the following on his Facebook page:





Now, how did Dr Lam conclude that it was "alcohol intoxication" which caused the apprent scuffle?

Dr Lam's post was linked to a blog post which in turn cited news or police statements that the three people arrested "were believed to have been drinking earlier as they smelt strongly of alcohol."

But it is important to understand what the police had said and the words it used.

The police said the three "were believed to have been drinking" and that "investigations are ongoing."

In other words, there is no conclusive proof of guilt, that the three - or any of them, in fact - had been drinking.

And even if they were, there is also no proof that they were "intoxicated".

Here is the full statement from the police:




Following the news reports, at least one of the three men arrested has stepped forward to deny that he had been drinking or had been intoxicated.

Here is his Facebook post refuting the charge:









You can read his whole post here: "News reports wrong about Thaipusam incident, says devotee".

It is important that we do not jump to conclusion about things like this when investigations are still ongoing.

Dr Lam is also a Minister of State (Health) whose words carry extra weight. Thus he should refrain from making such statements before police investigations are completed and the truth ascertained by a court of law.

He should learn from Mr Shanmugam and present facts, and not conjecture ot hearsay or unsubstantiated allegations.

Else, it leads to unhappiness, as it already has, going by the response on Dr Lam's Facebook page.

Remember: one is innocent until proved guilty.


*Article first appeared on http://publicopinion.sg/212/thaipusam-incident-should-get-facts-first-be...
 

Satyr

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: FAP Lam Pin Min Did Not Check Facts on Thaipusam Incident Before Trying to Score

This guys credibility is already so low. Does he think anybody cares what he says ?
 

makapaaa

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Shanmugam: Hindus are not discriminated, they are privileged

[h=1]SHANMUGAM: HINDUS ARE NOT DISCRIMINATED, THEY ARE PRIVILEGED[/h]
Post date:
6 Feb 2015 - 11:23pm








Addressing some of the concerns being raised about the Thaipusam incident and the greater debate about “discrimination” of Hindus, Law minister K Shanmugam has come out to say that the Hindus in Singapore are not discriminated.

He suggested that they are actually privileged.

Here is his full Facebook update on the issue:

There have been many questions on Thaipusam and the playing of musical instruments. Broadly, the questions can be grouped as follows:

  • Why can't musical instruments be played to help kavadi carriers during Thaipusam?
  • Why are Hindus being discriminated? Other groups are allowed to play music - e.g. Lion Dances, Kompangs.
  • Also we allow many groups, including Filipinos to sing and dance. So why not allow the same during Thaipusam.
These are fair questions. They arise from a misunderstanding of the rules. The truth is that Hindus are not discriminated against. In fact, they have been given a special privilege not enjoyed by others.

Hindus - Privileged or Discriminated against?

Most people don't realise, that in Singapore, all religious foot processions are banned. This ban was imposed in 1964, after riots.

But Hindus were given an exemption: Hindus have been allowed three religious foot processions: Thaipusam, Panguni Uthiram and Thimithi.
The Hindu religious foot processsions go through major roads. No other religion is given this privilege.

When other non-Hindu religious groups apply to hold foot processions, they are usually rejected. On rare occasions when it is given, stringent conditions will be imposed including much shorter routes, unlike Thaipusam which lasts the whole day and goes through major roads.

So the first point to note: only the Hindus are allowed such large religious foot processions.

Lion Dances/ Kompangs

What is the difference between Thaipusam (where music is not allowed during the foot procession) as opposed to Kompangs/ Lion Dances (with music being played in a public place)?

Lion dances, kompangs and other such celebrations are often held during social, community events. These are usually non-religious events. Likewise, at Hindu community events, musical instruments are also used - Nathaswaram, Melas. There are many such community celebrations: both on a national scale and in the local communities across Singapore. They are not religious foot processions. The ban on religious foot processions (as opposed to such communal/ social events) is because they carry a particular sensitivity - the risk of incidents is considered to be higher.

Likewise, singing, dancing at communal get-togethers by Singaporeans, foreigners are not affected by the general ban on religious foot processions.

While there is a general ban on religious foot processions, sometimes, permission may also be granted for religious events, with some music in a public place. It is unlikely that there would be a foot procession over a long route. And sometimes, at events such as the Kew Ong Yah Festival, there will be public gatherings in the different constituencies, playing of some music, but even then, the Police will generally not allow long foot processions.
What I have set out are the general rules - based on appeals, sometimes exceptions may be made, based on the specific facts. But the basic position is: as a rule, religious foot processions will not be allowed except for the 3 Hindu festivals.







So yes - as shown by social media, there are many events in public with music. But they are often not religious events. Sometimes, they are religious events - for which permission would have been obtained, as set out above.

So the Hindus are actually in a privileged position. There are many other religious groups which have asked to be allowed to hold foot processions. These appeals have generally been rejected.

I think even as Hindus ask for relaxation of the rules, we should know the true facts. And not misunderstand them.

With these facts, is there a case for allowing musical instruments to be played during the Thaipusam foot procession, in support of the kavadi carriers?

This is a matter that can be debated. There were incidents in the past which led to the tightening up. Whether the rules should be relaxed, and whether and under what conditions music should be allowed during the Thaipusam processions, is something HEB has to discuss with the agencies. HEB has relaxed the rules last year within the temple premises.

Attacks on Police

Beyond the issues relating to Thaipusam, there is another serious issue which should concern all Singaporeans.

The Police Officers on the ground were trying to do their job and dealt with 3 men. One of the men assaulted the Police and all 3 men used vulgarities at the Police. The injured Police Officer had to be treated at the hospital.
Our Police Officers protect all of us. It is quite unacceptable for the Police to be physically assaulted or ill-treated. We cannot allow them to be demeaned, assaulted. Right thinking Singaporeans will find this completely unacceptable. If Police Officers misbehave, they should be disciplined. But gratuitous attacks on the Police cannot be allowed and should not be tolerated. We as Singaporeans should come forward and say no to such attacks.

K Shanmugam
*Article first appeared on https://www.facebook.com/notes/k-shanmugam-sc/thaipusam-lion-dances-komp...
 

makapaaa

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Shanmugam: Hindus are not discriminated, they are privileged

Jeffrey SeninMr Shamugam, if it means a lot to the Indians to be allow to play the musical instrument during Thaipusam? Then I think they should be given the exception for just once a year during the Thaipusam celebration. Punish the trouble makers but don't take away their hope of getting to play the instruments. I've seen Thaipusam in JB Malaysia with the groups playing musical instrument and the people having fun and enjoying themselves walking along the busy streets of Jln Wong Ah Fook with tourist snapping photos here and there. It really looks lively there. I hope you can help make it Lively here lively here in Singapore. I 'm sure my Indians friends and all Singaporeans agree to this.
Reply · Like · 22 · 18 hours ago




odA9sNLrE86.jpg
Add a Reply...










Ashukumar Veerappan · Singapore Technical InstitutePrivileged my foot !! Who are you to give us privilege when religious rituals are our rights, even the British didn't dare to interfere. This practice & procession has been going on for more than a century, long before LKY or PAP exist & who the hell is HEB? Idiots!!!
Reply · Like · 22 · 18 hours ago
 

congo9

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: FAP Lam Pin Min Did Not Check Facts on Thaipusam Incident Before Trying to Score

This guys credibility is already so low. Does he think anybody cares what he says ?



Did Lam Pa check his facts before open his mouth to defend the contractor, URA and HDB ?
 

laksaboy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: FAP Lam Pin Min Did Not Check Facts on Thaipusam Incident Before Trying to Score

This guys credibility is already so low. Does he think anybody cares what he says ?

Probably still not as low as the mainstream media. :wink:

How convenient for him to use the Thaipusam incident, given the recent concerted effort by the pappies to garner support the new alcohol ban law. :rolleyes:
 

virus

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: FAP Lam Pin Min Did Not Check Facts on Thaipusam Incident Before Trying to Score

Probably still not as low as the mainstream media. :wink:

How convenient for him to use the Thaipusam incident, given the recent concerted effort by the pappies to garner support the new alcohol ban law. :rolleyes:

the 3 wise men of FAP

paul lampard
george crony
lee hsien tao
 

virus

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Shanmugam: Hindus are not discriminated, they are privileged

it's a privilege to be banned from playing musical instruments.

maxresdefault.jpg
 

laksaboy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: FAP Lam Pin Min Did Not Check Facts on Thaipusam Incident Before Trying to Score

The pappies have been with us for many years... surely we know their modus operandi by now.

For them, scoring points is far more important than the truth.

AIM, Brompton bike, various attempts to fix AHPETC, Yang Yin, Fernvale columbarium etc.

Even the simple act of reporting the PSI air quality during the haze is done with deliberate obfuscation.

They will keep spinning and justifying even when confronted with facts.
 

laksaboy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Shanmugam: Hindus are not discriminated, they are privileged

I think the pappies have too much free time on their hands. Instead of solving the country's more pertinent problems, they occupy their time coming up with frivolous laws banning musical instruments, banning alcohol etc. Solves nothing, achieves nothing, just making themselves look busy and 'clever'. :rolleyes:
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
Re: FAP Lam Pin Min Did Not Check Facts on Thaipusam Incident Before Trying to Score

He seems very eager, don't you think? He's already a ministar of state, wonder what he wants next. :rolleyes::biggrin:

This guys credibility is already so low. Does he think anybody cares what he says ?
 

Cerebral

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
I think the pappies have too much free time on their hands. Instead of solving the country's more pertinent problems, they occupy their time coming up with frivolous laws banning musical instruments, banning alcohol etc. Solves nothing, achieves nothing, just making themselves look busy and 'clever'. :rolleyes:

Wonder what they are going to ban next????
 
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