You are 100% right. I have no problem with our ministers getting multi-million salaries. But I have problem with ministers who aren't competent receiving their world class salaries. To exacerbate matters, did these ministers get to where they are at through connections etc?
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Cabinet Minister and the 50th Birthday Party
- Thread starter scroobal
- Start date
You are 100% right. I have no problem with our ministers getting multi-million salaries. But I have problem with ministers who aren't competent receiving their world class salaries. To exacerbate matters, did these ministers get to where they are at through connections etc?
In the outside world if you earn big that is fine as there is accountability to the board, the shareholders and there is always an element of risk.The money used is the company money and not taxpayers. More importantly you must show tangible results. No company is going to carry you if you cannot generate returns.
You also cannot be involved in 92 over organisations as advisor as the company paid you look after their interest and not wayang your time.
Earning more than any other leader of the free world and comparing their remit vs ours seems really odd. I am sure the CEO of a company cannot be paid much more than a rival company if the returns are the same. The shareholders will not allow it and they will be made a fool in the press.
You also cannot be involved in 92 over organisations as advisor as the company paid you look after their interest and not wayang your time.
Earning more than any other leader of the free world and comparing their remit vs ours seems really odd. I am sure the CEO of a company cannot be paid much more than a rival company if the returns are the same. The shareholders will not allow it and they will be made a fool in the press.
They get to where they r by kissing asses!
Look like this minister pay issue will never go away! It will be like a cancer growing inside the PAP!
There are ministars who aren't competent and receiving world class salaries. And there are CEOs who aren't competent, and receiving world class salaries as well. It's not just the public sector - people in the private sector get to the top through kissing ass and exploiting connections. The private and public halves of the elite have to be seen as a greater whole.
It's not fine for the private sector. First , a lot of private enterprises in Singapore are not publicly traded. They are family companies, so in many ways they are above the law. Second, corporate governance doesn't really work. The average shareholder does not have enough shares to vote out board members. These shareholder actions are almost never successful. Accountability in the private sector in Singapore is pretty weak. It's quite often the case that the biggest shareholder, maybe 20% of the company is owned by the boss himself. In any case, most of the shares are managed by banks who do not want to rock the boat. Corporate governance is also enforced by MAS who is pretty lax about a lot of things. The way that things are supposed to function is that shareholders are supposed to fuck the board, who is supposed to fuck the CEO. But it's very rare that these things happen.
Third, corporate governance as we usually understand it only takes into account the interests of shareholders. Never the employees, and never the customers. Customers don't have a lot of rights, as anybody who ever had to quarrel with M1 / Singtel / Starhub already knows. The Jollibee boycott - well it didn't work. Employees - as those of you who have to work for a wage know - are totally powerless.
Fourth, the issue is not really that the executives are supposed to turn a profit for the company and they are failing to do so. The real issue is that this form of capitalism is directly responsible for the growing wealth inequality for the world we live in today. The ministars paying themselves tons of money is just something that is a reflection of this corporatist system. In the end, the companies grow bigger and bigger, there are fewer and fewer of them. There's no real competition in the marketplace. They become so powerful that the governments make the laws friendlier and friendlier to them. The system more and more favours the rich: the rich have more and better connections. They'll always grow richer and the poor will always grow poorer. So the problem is not people not doing what the system expects them to do. The problem is the system itself. As for CEOs having equal pay across the board, just look at the facts yourself. There are relatively few CEOs, and all of them will sit on each other's board, and protect each other from harm.
In America they are having a lot of debates about why, 5 years after the great financial crisis, not one of the bosses of the major banks has been sent to jail.
OK, like you said, people are sitting on too many boards. But the same is also happening in corporate America. And if people are sitting on too many boards, isn't that an extremely bad reflection on how well the private sector is working as a system? Boards are supposed to make sure that rules are followed!
I don't have problems with people who kaopeh that ministers are paid too much. But I just find it curious that they are so happy to excuse the same kind of behaviour in the private sector, when actually it is the private sector which is at the root of all their problems. And yes, our ministers' pay are outrageously high compared to other countries' ministers. But not really that high compared to the CEOs of large companies. We should really be training our sights on the CEOs as well.
Unless - of course - you happen to be one of those fat pigs I was just talking about.
I think the 2 cases r different. I have no problem with incompetent officers of a company because they don't affect me if I don't buy their stocks. It's a different thing with a minister because he can impact u even if u didn't vote for him.
Only if you don't buy their stocks? I assume:
You are extremely happy with your very rich fucker of a boss who works twice as hard as you and makes 1000 times your salary.
You are extremely happy with the bankers who are out there to screw you at every given opportunity.
You are extremely happy with all the corporations out there who make every cent off you they can make, and pay the government as little as they can get away with - and you wonder why the government is always complaining that there's not enough money to do this or that.
You are extremely happy with all the CEOs who pay themselves millions of dollars and give your ministars the perfect excuse to pay themselves millions of dollars.
You are extremely happy with the fact that as a shareholder, if you're not happy with that CEO, there's nothing you can really do to force him out. At the most you can just sell that stock and buy stock in another company which has another fat pig at the helm.
In fact come to think about it, I don't really detest the incompetent officers. It's the ones who are really good at milking every single cent out of the system that you should be afraid of. The ones who drive the cost of living all the way up to the sky.
You don't understand how this system works. Every day that this system is surviving, it gets more and more unequal.
Hey Bro, cool it or u will burst a blood vessel! I learnt long time ago the world is unfair so no point fighting over it. Now I try to work within the so called Eco-system. I have no problems with company officers making loads of money...as long as they make money for me as well and I have a exit strategy if they don't. Politics different. I stopped voting for MIW long time ago but still they do things that gets to me. No choice but to bitch over here. Just waiting for the day when change happens and I can give the support. But again I am not the radical type. Radical change affects me and I cannot afford (and there are many like me) to lose what we have.
Well then I don't really understand the way you think. If you're offended by the ministars earning millions of dollars it's about unfairness. Otherwise what could it possibly be about?
Otherwise if you accept the ecosystem as it is, then you should understand - and the whole point of what I've said so fair is that the ministar million dollar salary is part of this system.
There aren't that many alternatives to the current model, but it's possible that the nordic model might work. That's why the MIWs are so afraid of it. But it will require everybody to change their mindset and it's hard to change. But just keep in mind that a very different way of doing things has succeeded elsewhere and we could look towards that.
Otherwise if you accept the ecosystem as it is, then you should understand - and the whole point of what I've said so fair is that the ministar million dollar salary is part of this system.
There aren't that many alternatives to the current model, but it's possible that the nordic model might work. That's why the MIWs are so afraid of it. But it will require everybody to change their mindset and it's hard to change. But just keep in mind that a very different way of doing things has succeeded elsewhere and we could look towards that.
I am not sure if everyone is on the same page. The high salary issue of Singapore politicians has nothing to do with envy. Holding public office is to serve society. Look around the world, nobody draws this level of remuneration. What is interesting is that unlike a private or public listed company where the accountability and risk are measured much better, Singapore politics is a whole different ball game.
What we should have been doing is to treat public office with the respect it deserves and you will get quality people who are not looking for high and out of this world type of salaried but are grateful and honoured to serve their people.
What we should have been doing is to treat public office with the respect it deserves and you will get quality people who are not looking for high and out of this world type of salaried but are grateful and honoured to serve their people.
Don't try to bullshit people here lah.
A warning for newbies and a reminder for regulars.
A long long time ago and in a land far far away
A boy started a forum for folks to have their say
It’s meant for the common man a place for all and sundry
He tried to think of a good name and finally thought of sammy
A pathetic coward from the elite wanted to say his piece
Too scared to appear in public this place to him was bliss
His chosen nick was scroobal a name now known to all
It would be fine except it didn’t say that he was missing one ball
He claimed to be a know-it-all and he would name drop daily
His behaviour as seen by most was that of a manipulative bully
Arrogance was his forte and he was not beyond deceit
If you wanted him to like you, you had better lick his feet
Disagree with him one time and he would never forget you
Tyrants like him would never allow you to have your point of view
This piece of shit would sometimes try to talk like the common man
But if you dared to go against him he would hit you with a ban
He would later lie about it and claim it was not him
It’s simply normal for this asshole to think that we are dim
He has a bunch of elite cronies who would follow him to the end
This bunch of sycophants insist on keeping their heads in the sand
Blind to the bullying and manipulation he continues with gutso
This egoistic charlatan scroobal has really reached a low
He has no self-awareness his upbringing is in question
What he needs from the rest of us is to be taught a severe lesson
He claims to be a defender of the common man but that is pure bullshit
Just mention anything about those elites and he’s chomping at the bit
His anger with the men in white may sometimes confuse us
Most likely he was discarded by them and thrown under the bus
This manipulative bully still runs the roost but this ditty is for fun
If you think of trusting him, remember he said “Khaw will not run!”
If this piece of scroobal shit does not realize he’s a bullying pest
The rest of us will simply have to think of ways to whip his fucking ass.
The inequality issue is not about envy either. It's about an increasing segment of the population not being able to make do for themselves. If you think that the ideals of civil service are being corrupted, then what are they being corrupted by? By private sector values. In the end, it's still about the way that the private sector shapes our society. It's not as though government is really as important as it used to be.
Also, for the reasons discussed earlier, I don't believe that things are any cleaner in the private sector as they are in the public sector. And furthermore it's the government's job to enforce transparency in the private sector. You think that it's possible, with the lack of accountability in the govt, that they can hold the private companies to task on accountability issues? There was the recent expose of the Sarawak Chief minister and his corrupt dealings - you know Singapore is a financial center for all these funky shennanigans. They can all stash their money away here however they want. And if they don't like the banks they can always go to the laundromat known as Marina Bay Sands. We're basically as pure as driven snow.
Are you really a former civil servant?
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Ah Hau, Kuok is GL that's why can pull strings here and there. Can he survive in the real corporate world. What do you think?
he's earning more than what he did as a minister? crap! what have Aljunied residents done! *smack head*
Yes. YES! Let them fear. Fear for their jobs and their way of life! Graduated top of your class from a prominent overseas university? Rubbed shoulders with captain of industries and a wide network of industry contacts and personal friends who have become successful? Not going to mean a damn thing if you have no platform. Unemployment, like death, can be a great equalizer.
As long as one draws a salary, no sinkie is safe from globalization. Possibly other than those on the PAP gravy train. Just ask some of the denizens here. The PAP can be rather benevolent in that sense, but it would be costly, both on an economic and social level, to extend it to all. It is a stop gap, not a long term solution.
As long as one draws a salary, no sinkie is safe from globalization. Possibly other than those on the PAP gravy train. Just ask some of the denizens here. The PAP can be rather benevolent in that sense, but it would be costly, both on an economic and social level, to extend it to all. It is a stop gap, not a long term solution.
Actually I agree with u but unfortunately I also know the world is imperfect so got to be realistic. Nothing I can do about sky high salaries for company officers just like nothing I can do about professional footballers salaries. Just got to accept it and work within the system .
Why did you cook up such an unbelievable story that no one can verify?
Exactly what I was talking about. Singaporean have a very curious attitude.
1. PAP minister paid millions to run a large organisation -> fuck the PAP!
2. Fatcat senior executive paid millions to run a large organisation -> relax man there's nothing I can do about the system.
Even though we all know that it was 2 which led to 1.
Almost as though - those executives are the ones causing all this wage inequality in the first place, but are perfectly happy for you to blame the government for not solving the problems they left behind for you.
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I don't find it unbelievable. Cabinet ministers go to school, and they have hundreds of friends when they leave school, even before they start work.
Would you not agree that the U.S. is the biggest capitalist economy and has the biggest private sector in the world? In that private sector called Wall St, the last crisis was born out of greed and fear. CEOs reward themselves with fat bonuses and severance packages with public bailout money.
Yet, Obama and the Office of the Presidency does not earn in proportion the kind of obscene salaries that our govt which is the biggest em ployer by the way, earns.
How's that for "2 which led to 1"? Why isnt the President corrupted by the fat cat pays?
It is funny that what happened in the US private sector can corrupt OUR govt, but does not affect th US own office of the President. Do you know what you are talking about? Non sequitur..you are really a mickey.
Yet, Obama and the Office of the Presidency does not earn in proportion the kind of obscene salaries that our govt which is the biggest em ployer by the way, earns.
How's that for "2 which led to 1"? Why isnt the President corrupted by the fat cat pays?
It is funny that what happened in the US private sector can corrupt OUR govt, but does not affect th US own office of the President. Do you know what you are talking about? Non sequitur..you are really a mickey.
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