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Association of Muslim Professionals finally wake up and take their PAP partner.

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Looks like the marriage of convenience had ended. Kudos to AMP for standing up. Old man just screwed his own party and lets wait for the GE to see the backlash. I am sure NSP Malay bureau is now in the limelight.


http://www.amp.org.sg/amp07/web/view/main.asp?id=ART00002-2011

AMP's Official Response to Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew's Comments in Hard Truths to Keep Singapore Going



27 January 2011

MEDIA STATEMENT


AMP Responds to Comments by Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew in Hard Truths to Keep Singapore Going



The Association of Muslim Professionals (AMP) deeply regrets certain comments made by Minister Mentor (MM) Mr Lee Kuan Yew in his book Hard Truths to Keep Singapore Going. These comments are in relation to the practice of Islam by the Malay-Muslim community (MMC) where MM Lee had urged the MMC to be less strict in their practice of Islam in order to facilitate integration, and in relation to the issue of gaps between the MMC and other communities in Singapore, where MM Lee opined that the MMC will never catch up with the other communities. We note that these views of MM Lee are not new. It is not clear why MM Lee has chosen to repeat them at this point.


However, because these views come from MM, and are repeated in print, it is important for the community to set its rejoinders. We do not agree with MM's views. In our view, MM’s comments have hurt the community and are potentially divisive.


Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong for any community in Singapore in being distinct, for it to carry out its religious practices, or in asserting its identity. Islam enjoins Muslims to integrate within the broader Singapore community. It is not mutually exclusive for a good Muslim to be a good Singaporean. In fact, a good Muslim is duty bound, in Islam, to be a good Singaporean.


Many other religious communities practise their rituals. There is nothing wrong with this. Further, many ethnic communities assert their identities. Again, there is nothing wrong in this. For example, the state-promoted policy of SAP schools (where it could be argued that students do not have the same opportunity to mingle with other communities) manifests the assertion of the Chinese identity. The Speak Mandarin campaign is yet another example of the assertion of Chinese identity. The MMC has accepted these assertions of identities as part and parcel of living in a multi-ethnic and multi-religious community. Just like other Singaporeans, we celebrate diversity of beliefs and practices. It is therefore perplexing to see the Malay/Muslim community as being unfairly singled out for reasons which we cannot fathom.


It is unusual for MM to conclude that Muslims have not integrated based on his sporadic observations of eating practices of Muslims. Many Muslims have no qualms sharing tables with their non-Muslim friends and colleagues. Muslims are obliged to observe certain dietary restrictions, inasmuch as people subscribing to other religions (e.g. Buddhists or Hindus who do not consume certain types of foods) or others having dietary restrictions (vegetarians, vegans). It is a stretch and disingenuous to suggest that Muslims are against or less likely to integrate primarily on account of our dietary restrictions or eating habits.


Ironically, MM's comments, which had purported to touch on integration, could be potentially divisive. MM’s comments create the misperception that the MMC is against or disinterested in integration, which is untrue and unfounded. It tends to perpetuate this misperception for younger Singaporeans in particular, who may take his views, as the first Prime Minister of Singapore, as the truth. These misperceptions could hinder integration going forward.


Apart from the issue of the practice of Islam, MM had also commented that the Malay/Muslim community will never catch up with other communities in Singapore. Again, this is regrettable. To state this in print is effectively condemning the MMC as a lagging and marginalised community, even in the longer term.


MM's comments also raise questions as to whether they reflect the thinking of other political leaders. Does this thinking (relating to the misperception of Muslims being disinterested in integration, or that the MMC will never catch up with other communities) affect, directly or indirectly, other government policies? If this is not the case, then the State should clarify this. Otherwise, the perception will be that the comments expressed by MM Lee, as a core member of the Cabinet, reflects the official position of the Government.

Issued by: Board of Directors, AMP


END

 

Thick Face Black Heart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
AMP has crafted a truly solid response.

Yes, there will be fallout. Let's see whether they can contain the nuclear implosion. Many PAP candidates should spend the next few months sleepless.

Too many mis-steps, screw ups, cock ups, outright cases of govt incompetence, and blatant cases of insensitivity on the part of cabinet ministers have occurred since GE2006.

We can now hope singaporeans can put 2 + 2 together & do whats best.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
As I have stated elsewhere, only Malays with backbones align with the AMP. Kudos to the AMP. On this clear day, Malays can see forever that Muis has long been a PAP prop and stooge, and that their brighter future lies with AMP. The Malay Bureau also stands to gain potentially from this fallout if it plays its card well.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
If LKY's "truths" were honey coated and palatable, they wouldn't be called "hard truths" would they.

Everything he says is spot on. Everyone knows that Islam is divisive by nature and is getting more so. Everyone knows the Malays will never catch up with the non Muslim communities for obvious reasons. Everyone knows that Singapore is in a precarious position by any measure.

There is nothing in his "hard truths" log that isn't exactly that... the cold hard truth.
 

Thick Face Black Heart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
As I have stated elsewhere, only Malays with backbones align with the AMP. Kudos to the AMP. On this clear day, Malays can see forever that Muis has long been a PAP prop and stooge, and that their brighter future lies with AMP. The Malay Bureau also stands to gain potentially from this fallout if it plays its card well.

I hope the NSP Malay Bureau goes BOOMZ!
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Agree. Well crafted. They have reasoned it out well. What must be good for gander must surely be good for goose.

AMP has crafted a truly solid response.

Yes, there will be fallout. Let's see whether they can contain the nuclear implosion. Many PAP candidates should spend the next few months sleepless.

Too many mis-steps, screw ups, cock ups, outright cases of govt incompetence, and blatant cases of insensitivity on the part of cabinet ministers have occurred since GE2006.

We can now hope singaporeans can put 2 + 2 together & do whats best.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Looks like you have not read their media release carefully. They are not denying the "hard truth" but pointing out that it should not be in print. They also highlighted that Chinese went down their merry way with speak mandarin/SAP schools and then expect the Malays to be compliant. They have mentioned and others have mentioned in parliament about school segregation and the same prick is scolding the malays about integration.

It like a pedophile giving a lesson on schoolyard bullies. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Since this govt took and introduced racial quotas, SAP schools, speak Mandarin campaigns, all the races have stopped integrating. When was the last time we heard out kids visiting a schoolfriend of Indian or Malay race at his home or going down for deepavalli.

I remember clearly my school days when we dying for deepavali, hari raya and christmas. There was an aunty that made the best vadai in our neighbourhood. Today most kids have never tasted vadai.

It about time the old man learnt some hard truths himself.


If LKY's "truths" were honey coated and palatable, they wouldn't be called "hard truths" would they.

Everything he says is spot on. Everyone knows that Islam is divisive by nature and is getting more so. Everyone knows the Malays will never catch up with the non Muslim communities for obvious reasons. Everyone knows that Singapore is in a precarious position by any measure.

There is nothing in his "hard truths" log that isn't exactly that... the cold hard truth.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Looks like you have not read their media release carefully. They are not denying the "hard truth" but pointing out that it should not be in print.

Politics in a multicultural society is always going to be a balancing act and policies invariably reflect this fact.

SAP schools were conjured up to pander to the Chinese chauvinists. MUIs, AMP etc are there to cater to the aspirations of the Malay community.

I'm pretty sure that LKY wishes that all Singaporeans could simply co-exist as one big happy family regardless of race, language or religion and all these community based organisations could simply be disbanded in one fell sweep.

However, he knows perfectly well this isn't going to happen. His hard truths are simply a revelation of his thoughts, free of the political correctness bullshit that has smothered the West in recent years. It's a breath of fresh air and it has got people debating the issue passionately which is why he put them in print in the first place.
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
It about time the old man learnt some hard truths himself.

Old man behaves as if he is God and can never be wrong because Cabinet and his MPs have no courage to correct him. Whatever comes from his mouth is gospel truth.

Maybe, just maybe, some of the other older chaps like GKS, LKS, EB, TCC had the courage to correct old man in the past but I see no one who has this attribute the past 15-20 yrs.
 

TheDiscloser

Alfrescian
Loyal
Good response AMP!

But in any case, we should all unite, Chinese, Malay, Indians, Eurasians etc. come together as Singaporeans, that's what we need to do all the way, regardless of what ever the next old man says.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Fully agree. Senile old idiot.

Old man behaves as if he is God and can never be wrong because Cabinet and his MPs have no courage to correct him. Whatever comes from his mouth is gospel truth.

Maybe, just maybe, some of the other older chaps like GKS, LKS, EB, TCC had the courage to correct old man in the past but I see no one who has this attribute the past 15-20 yrs.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Absolutely and Kudos to you bro for saying it.

Good response AMP!

But in any case, we should all unite, Chinese, Malay, Indians, Eurasians etc. come together as Singaporeans, that's what we need to do all the way, regardless of what ever the next old man says.
 

Thick Face Black Heart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Old man behaves as if he is God and can never be wrong because Cabinet and his MPs have no courage to correct him. Whatever comes from his mouth is gospel truth.

LKY is stuck in an era where his brand of govt worked. That era is long gone but he still acts as though the same rules continue to apply. That is why PAP is now having the "bull in a china shop" syndrome. This will be their undoing.
 

Thick Face Black Heart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
You can go about awarding Kudos but you know perfectly well he's living in fantasy land. :rolleyes:

16 posts and you still miss the point. The point is not about whether LKY was factually accurate or not, but about whether his words in print serve to divide, antagonize, and deepen our social rifts. The point is also about his intention of doing this and the negative impact his continued dominance in the PAP has on Singapore as a whole.

If governing a country simply meant dishing out hard truths, then we won't, and shouldn't need any opposition. Unfortunately you're living in a Pollyanna if you think that is the case.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
LKY is stuck in an era where his brand of govt worked.

On the contrary. What Singapore needs now is an even stronger version of his brand of governance.

There is far too much pussyfooting around important issues nowadays. Singaporeans need a good dose of the hard knocks to make them realise that life is tough and can only get worse.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
16 posts and you still miss the point. The point is not about whether LKY was factually accurate or not, but about whether his words in print serve to divide, antagonize, and deepen our social rifts. The point is also about his intention of doing this and the negative impact his continued dominance in the PAP has on Singapore as a whole.

I beg to differ. In fact, I pointed out in one of those 16 posts that LKY obviously felt that the issue NEEDED to be debated rather than be left under the carpet to fester. The Malays need to be told, in no uncertain terms, that if they don't make better efforts to integrate, they'll be left further behind. The leaders of the various Malay organisations are responding as predicted. However, deep down inside, I'm pretty sure the majority of Malays know perfectly well that LKY is right.
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
LKY is stuck in an era where his brand of govt worked. That era is long gone but he still acts as though the same rules continue to apply. That is why PAP is now having the "bull in a china shop" syndrome. This will be their undoing.

Agree. You can't teach an old and dying dog any new tricks. Just a pity too many yes men all over - cabinet, parliament and civil service. No one had the courage to tell old man he should adapt to a changing society and not the other way round. Not even Ngiam Tong Dow. Ngiam only start to talk some sense after leaving the civil service.
 
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