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Allah and God are not the same!
- Thread starter harimau
- Start date
Since God cannot be created nor destroyed, it could be a form of energy. Or it's the controller of energy.
So are both Allah and Christian God the same? Since both are invisible and a form of energy?
fart also cannot be seen but we know it's there
You have got a point there John. Yes we don't see Christians fighting each other.
Jehova and God are not the same! Jehovah was the tribal deity of the Israelites, not the Universal God (Brahman).
The True Nature of Jehovah
This is one of the oldest known images of Jesus and dates from around 1,500 years ago. Christians in the West would do well to remember that Jesus was not Western but Middle Eastern. The West has never yet produced a world religion.
The Bible makes it quite clear that the entity named, or known as, Jehovah chose ISRAEL to be HIS chosen people. As Jehovah is but the particular “National Deity” of Israel, he has nothing to do with other nations or races and it seems strange that non-Israelites should want anything to do with him. This applies to Christians too, as Jesus criticised and rebelled against the rules and commandments of Jehovah more than anyone else and the Gospels are full of such instances.
Incidentally, Jehovah corresponds to SATURN and is sometimes spoken of in the ancient teachings as a “son of Saturn”. The Jewish nation was “born under Saturn.”
It is also the case, however, that Jesus himself believed and taught that he (Jesus) was to be a Saviour only to the Israelites and not to the other races and peoples of the world. “I have been sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel,” he is recorded as saying in Matthew 15:24. There are also numerous instances related in the Gospels where Gentiles (meaning non-Jewish people) approached Jesus to be healed, only for him to inform them that “I was not sent to the Gentiles but to the children of Israel. Is it right to take the children’s bread and give it to dogs?” The Gospels relate that he did often eventually consent to heal such individuals but only because of their relentlessness and refusal to leave him in peace until they had received the blessing they sought for.
Yet it’s quite clear that the “Loving Heavenly Father” that Jesus spoke of was not the same Being as the “jealous, vengeful, wrathful God” (Jehovah) of the Old Testament. The words of Jesus in John, ch. 8 seem to present the distinction, in Jesus’ dispute with the Pharisees – a prominent sect of Judaism, naturally devoted wholeheartedly to Jehovah.
v. 38 – “I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do that which you have seen with your father.”
v. 40 – “But now you seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard from God: Abraham did not do this.” (A very ambiguous statement which can only either mean “Abraham did not seek to kill me” or “Abraham did not hear from God and did not tell you the Truth.”)
v. 41 – “You do the deeds of your father.” Then said they to him, ‘We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.’
v. 42 – “If God were your Father, you would love me.”
v. 44 – “You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning [see the many vengeful, capricious, and inexplicable deaths attributed to Jehovah from the very first pages of the Old Testament], and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
In “The Secret Doctrine,” H.P. Blavatsky says, “Jesus THE INITIATE (or Jehoshua) – the type from whom the ‘historical’ Jesus was copied – was not of pure Jewish blood, and thus recognised no Jehovah; nor did he worship any planetary god beside his own ‘Father,’ whom he knew, and with whom he communed as every high initiate does, ‘Spirit to Spirit and Soul to Soul.’”
Although many well-intentioned and devout Christians will vainly and ignorantly attempt to deny it, it is the case that the vast majority of the early Christians did not believe Jesus to have been in any way a representative of Jehovah. For a start, how can the Being who menacingly roared the command “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys!” (1 Samuel 15:3) be the inspirer of the beautiful and uplifting teachings of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount?
The Ophite Gnostic Christians maintained that Jehovah was “an inferior being” and rejected the Old Testament entirely, giving as their reason that it was the product of, and related to, this inferior being. Bishop Marcion of Synope (85-160 AD) insisted that the Jewish god Jehovah was “totally different and distinct from the Deity who sent Jesus to reveal the divine truth and preach the glad tidings, to bring reconciliation and salvation to all.” Marcion taught that the mission and intent of Jesus was to DO AWAY with Jehovah, who he said “was opposed to the God and Father of Jesus Christ, as matter is to spirit, impurity to purity.” (See “Isis Unveiled” Vol. 2 by H.P. Blavatsky)
Basilides (117-138 AD) held much the same views and he was known to be a disciple of the Apostle Matthew and of Glaucias or Glaucus, who had been a disciple of the Apostle Peter.
In fact, not even all the Jews of Old Testament days were supporters of Jehovah. There were two distinct schools of thought amongst them – the Elohists and the Jehovists. They were often in conflict with one another, the antagonism usually being started by the Jehovistic believers, which is hardly surprising, considering Jehovah’s reputation as a God of War.
The portions of Scriptures belonging to these two were later completely and purposely mixed up and blended together by certain early fathers of the Christian Church in order to serve their own purposes. In “War in Heaven”, Godolphin Mitford wrote, “The Christians – far less clear-sighted than the great Mystic and Liberator whose name they have assumed, whose doctrines they have misunderstood and travestied, and whose memory they have blackened by their deeds – took the Jewish Jehovah as he was, and of course strove vainly to reconcile the Gospel of Light and Liberty with the Deity of Darkness and Submission.”
By the “Deity of Darkness and Submission,” he is of course referring to Jehovah.
The Master Koot Hoomi says in “The Mahatma Letters”: “Their own Bible their Revelation destroys all the moral perceptions they heap upon him, unless indeed they call those qualities perfections that every other man’s reason and common sense calls imperfections, odious vices and brutal wickedness. Nay more he who reads our Buddhist scriptures written for the superstitious masses will fail to find in them a DEMON so vindictive, unjust, so cruel and so stupid as the celestial tyrant upon whom the Christians prodigally lavish their servile worship and on whom their theologians heap those perfections that are contradicted on every page of their Bible. Truly and veritably your theology has created her God but to destroy him piecemeal. Your church is the fabulous Saturn, who begets children but to devour them.”
“In what particular does the jealous, wrathful, revengeful God of Israel resemble the unknown deity, the God of mercy preached by Jesus; – his Father who is in Heaven, and the Father of all humanity? This Father alone is the God of spirit and purity, and to compare Him with the subordinate and capricious Sinaitic Deity is an error. Did Jesus ever pronounce the name of Jehovah? … Never! From that memorable day when he preached his Sermon on the Mount, an immeasurable void opened between his God and that other deity who fulminated his commands from that other mount – Sinai. The language of Jesus is unequivocal; it implies not only rebellion but defiance of the Mosaic ‘Lord God.’ ‘Ye have heard,’ he tells us, ‘that it hath been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Ye have heard that it hath been said [by the same “Lord God” on Sinai]: Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you; Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you” (Matthew v.).
“If the Mosaic ‘Lord God’ was the only living God, and Jesus His only Son, how account for the rebellious language of the latter? Without hesitation or qualification he sweeps away the Jewish lex talionis and substitutes for it the law of charity and self-denial. If the Old Testament is a divine revelation, how can the New Testament be? Are we required to believe and worship a Deity who contradicts himself every few hundred years? Was Moses inspired, or was Jesus not the son of God? … ‘How can a god,’ inquired Marcion, ‘break his own commandments? How could he consistently prohibit idolatry and image-worship, and still cause Moses to set up the brazen serpent? How command: Thou shalt not steal, and then order the Israelites to spoil [to rob] the Egyptians of their gold and silver?’”
Madame Blavatsky asserts elsewhere in “The Secret Doctrine” that the title of “Satan” belongs by right to JEHOVAH. It is plainly obvious – at least to any sincere and decent person and to those whose minds and reasoning faculties have not fallen victim to the almost deadly poison of fundamentalist Christianity – that Jehovah is at best a demon, if not actually the devil himself, should such a being be considered to actually exist.
Jehovah was but a private tribal god who fought against the gods of other nations and who constantly vaunted himself as superior to them…a god not only of war, murder, violence, and pillage but also of tremendous arrogance, boastfulness, and pride…hardly divine qualities! The Old Testament scriptures show how he required constant sacrifices of blood in order to appease him. The requiring and demanding of blood sacrifices is an invariable criterion as to the true nature and status of a spiritual entity, since no Being worthy of the slightest respect or worship would ever make such atrocious and horrific demands. Apparently forgetting his unequivocal commandment of “Thou shalt not kill!” which he instructed Moses to proclaim to the children of Israel, Jehovah was more than happy for any number of animals and even humans to be killed for his sake as blood sacrifices.
As a Theosophist once wrote, “If the Christians could only have left these primitive Jewish conceptions alone, and taken with reference to God the teachings of their Founder, who spoke of Him always as the Father in heaven, many of the troubles of the Church would have been avoided.”
The True Nature of Jehovah
This is one of the oldest known images of Jesus and dates from around 1,500 years ago. Christians in the West would do well to remember that Jesus was not Western but Middle Eastern. The West has never yet produced a world religion.
Incidentally, Jehovah corresponds to SATURN and is sometimes spoken of in the ancient teachings as a “son of Saturn”. The Jewish nation was “born under Saturn.”
It is also the case, however, that Jesus himself believed and taught that he (Jesus) was to be a Saviour only to the Israelites and not to the other races and peoples of the world. “I have been sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel,” he is recorded as saying in Matthew 15:24. There are also numerous instances related in the Gospels where Gentiles (meaning non-Jewish people) approached Jesus to be healed, only for him to inform them that “I was not sent to the Gentiles but to the children of Israel. Is it right to take the children’s bread and give it to dogs?” The Gospels relate that he did often eventually consent to heal such individuals but only because of their relentlessness and refusal to leave him in peace until they had received the blessing they sought for.
Yet it’s quite clear that the “Loving Heavenly Father” that Jesus spoke of was not the same Being as the “jealous, vengeful, wrathful God” (Jehovah) of the Old Testament. The words of Jesus in John, ch. 8 seem to present the distinction, in Jesus’ dispute with the Pharisees – a prominent sect of Judaism, naturally devoted wholeheartedly to Jehovah.
v. 38 – “I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do that which you have seen with your father.”
v. 40 – “But now you seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard from God: Abraham did not do this.” (A very ambiguous statement which can only either mean “Abraham did not seek to kill me” or “Abraham did not hear from God and did not tell you the Truth.”)
v. 41 – “You do the deeds of your father.” Then said they to him, ‘We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.’
v. 42 – “If God were your Father, you would love me.”
v. 44 – “You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning [see the many vengeful, capricious, and inexplicable deaths attributed to Jehovah from the very first pages of the Old Testament], and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
In “The Secret Doctrine,” H.P. Blavatsky says, “Jesus THE INITIATE (or Jehoshua) – the type from whom the ‘historical’ Jesus was copied – was not of pure Jewish blood, and thus recognised no Jehovah; nor did he worship any planetary god beside his own ‘Father,’ whom he knew, and with whom he communed as every high initiate does, ‘Spirit to Spirit and Soul to Soul.’”
Although many well-intentioned and devout Christians will vainly and ignorantly attempt to deny it, it is the case that the vast majority of the early Christians did not believe Jesus to have been in any way a representative of Jehovah. For a start, how can the Being who menacingly roared the command “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys!” (1 Samuel 15:3) be the inspirer of the beautiful and uplifting teachings of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount?
The Ophite Gnostic Christians maintained that Jehovah was “an inferior being” and rejected the Old Testament entirely, giving as their reason that it was the product of, and related to, this inferior being. Bishop Marcion of Synope (85-160 AD) insisted that the Jewish god Jehovah was “totally different and distinct from the Deity who sent Jesus to reveal the divine truth and preach the glad tidings, to bring reconciliation and salvation to all.” Marcion taught that the mission and intent of Jesus was to DO AWAY with Jehovah, who he said “was opposed to the God and Father of Jesus Christ, as matter is to spirit, impurity to purity.” (See “Isis Unveiled” Vol. 2 by H.P. Blavatsky)
Basilides (117-138 AD) held much the same views and he was known to be a disciple of the Apostle Matthew and of Glaucias or Glaucus, who had been a disciple of the Apostle Peter.
In fact, not even all the Jews of Old Testament days were supporters of Jehovah. There were two distinct schools of thought amongst them – the Elohists and the Jehovists. They were often in conflict with one another, the antagonism usually being started by the Jehovistic believers, which is hardly surprising, considering Jehovah’s reputation as a God of War.
The portions of Scriptures belonging to these two were later completely and purposely mixed up and blended together by certain early fathers of the Christian Church in order to serve their own purposes. In “War in Heaven”, Godolphin Mitford wrote, “The Christians – far less clear-sighted than the great Mystic and Liberator whose name they have assumed, whose doctrines they have misunderstood and travestied, and whose memory they have blackened by their deeds – took the Jewish Jehovah as he was, and of course strove vainly to reconcile the Gospel of Light and Liberty with the Deity of Darkness and Submission.”
By the “Deity of Darkness and Submission,” he is of course referring to Jehovah.
The Master Koot Hoomi says in “The Mahatma Letters”: “Their own Bible their Revelation destroys all the moral perceptions they heap upon him, unless indeed they call those qualities perfections that every other man’s reason and common sense calls imperfections, odious vices and brutal wickedness. Nay more he who reads our Buddhist scriptures written for the superstitious masses will fail to find in them a DEMON so vindictive, unjust, so cruel and so stupid as the celestial tyrant upon whom the Christians prodigally lavish their servile worship and on whom their theologians heap those perfections that are contradicted on every page of their Bible. Truly and veritably your theology has created her God but to destroy him piecemeal. Your church is the fabulous Saturn, who begets children but to devour them.”
“In what particular does the jealous, wrathful, revengeful God of Israel resemble the unknown deity, the God of mercy preached by Jesus; – his Father who is in Heaven, and the Father of all humanity? This Father alone is the God of spirit and purity, and to compare Him with the subordinate and capricious Sinaitic Deity is an error. Did Jesus ever pronounce the name of Jehovah? … Never! From that memorable day when he preached his Sermon on the Mount, an immeasurable void opened between his God and that other deity who fulminated his commands from that other mount – Sinai. The language of Jesus is unequivocal; it implies not only rebellion but defiance of the Mosaic ‘Lord God.’ ‘Ye have heard,’ he tells us, ‘that it hath been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Ye have heard that it hath been said [by the same “Lord God” on Sinai]: Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you; Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you” (Matthew v.).
“If the Mosaic ‘Lord God’ was the only living God, and Jesus His only Son, how account for the rebellious language of the latter? Without hesitation or qualification he sweeps away the Jewish lex talionis and substitutes for it the law of charity and self-denial. If the Old Testament is a divine revelation, how can the New Testament be? Are we required to believe and worship a Deity who contradicts himself every few hundred years? Was Moses inspired, or was Jesus not the son of God? … ‘How can a god,’ inquired Marcion, ‘break his own commandments? How could he consistently prohibit idolatry and image-worship, and still cause Moses to set up the brazen serpent? How command: Thou shalt not steal, and then order the Israelites to spoil [to rob] the Egyptians of their gold and silver?’”
– from Chapter 3 of “Isis Unveiled” Vol. 2
Those who have read the Old Testament will no doubt remember that in the incident mentioned above Jehovah commanded his chosen people, the Israelites, to first kill the Egyptians and then rob all the gold, silver, and precious jewels from their corpses. What kind of “god” is this?!? It is often said these days that all the Gods of all the different religions in the world are one and the same. While Theosophy maintains that all religions are the same in their esoteric essence, it takes issue with the suggestion that Jehovah, the murderous tribal deity of the Jews, – and who thunderously declared that he was “the adversary of all the other gods” – can be in any way construed or implied as being a representation of a perfect unity of Divine Love.
Jehovah was but a private tribal god who fought against the gods of other nations and who constantly vaunted himself as superior to them…a god not only of war, murder, violence, and pillage but also of tremendous arrogance, boastfulness, and pride…hardly divine qualities! The Old Testament scriptures show how he required constant sacrifices of blood in order to appease him. The requiring and demanding of blood sacrifices is an invariable criterion as to the true nature and status of a spiritual entity, since no Being worthy of the slightest respect or worship would ever make such atrocious and horrific demands. Apparently forgetting his unequivocal commandment of “Thou shalt not kill!” which he instructed Moses to proclaim to the children of Israel, Jehovah was more than happy for any number of animals and even humans to be killed for his sake as blood sacrifices.
As a Theosophist once wrote, “If the Christians could only have left these primitive Jewish conceptions alone, and taken with reference to God the teachings of their Founder, who spoke of Him always as the Father in heaven, many of the troubles of the Church would have been avoided.”
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According to Sai Baba, all religions are the same, just like the rivers flowing finally to the same ocean. Men fought over religion just to establish their own political power and material gains. Why did ISIS kill their fellow Muslims?
True religion does not preach killing to attain paradise after death.
What about the civil war in Ireland years ago where the Protestants and Catholics slaughtered one another? It is a fallacy to claim Christians do not fight one another over same religion.
What you say is correct, but followers of the Abrahamic religions believe that their religion is the only true one, and that their God is one true God.
That's why I have a field day taunting them here.
The Universe could not have come into existence on its own. Something or someone must have created it. The Christians call the Creator "God" and the Muslims call the Creator "Allah" but this distinction does not really matter in the Universe where if there is light, there is also darkness, where there is white, there is also black.
So, along came Jesus and Mohammad to tell Man to behave or they will perish but who cares? So, today, ISIS and other terrorists bombed churches, temples and mosques to destroy places of worship.
God is not apart from creation: that's the fundamental tenet of Advaita Hindu and Buddhist non-dualism. If it is the controller of energy, it's still a duality: the controller, and energy.
In truth God is conscious energy, Shiva-Shakti, Nirvana-Samsara. All creation emanates and is absorbed into God's own being. That's why we inhere in God, and God is in each of us. That's why true Buddhists do not pray to a God outside themselves. Followers of Abrahamic religions like yourself and JohnTan cannot fathom this paradox.
1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
To follow a certain religion is to get spiritual guidance and to attain inner peace during one's life journey. It is not foolish to have a religion but it is foolish to fall into the trap of false preachers.
What is the use of having all the worldly possessions when no one can bring it along after death? All the burning of paper cars, paper Rolex watches, paper houses, etc will only enrich the businessmen who made them. The deceased will get nothing.
What is the use of donating money to a church like CHC and the pastor used the money to enrich himself and his wife and family to have a luxurious life? It sounds hollow to say that the more you give, the more God will love you. If God could create Heaven and Earth, God could also have created wealth for Himself.
What is the use of killing a man just because he is a Muslim but does not belong to ISIS? So, killing fellow worshipers to establish the caliphate is just an excuse to create an empire for the leader of the pack.
Chinks who burn a ton of paper during Chink Halloween would disagree with you.
Tell that to the people who donated lots of money to this late Thai-Chink medium who styled himself as a king.
What's wrong with that? The religion that you and I follow today are largely due to the military success of the religion a long time ago. Hardly any Persians or Afghans today are Buddhists today because the Buddhists couldn't win their wars.
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The history of Christianity is littered with Christians killing other Christians. The Catholic church had killed thousands upon thousands of Christians that they deemed "heretics" in their Inquisitions, the Popes were murderers who had ordered the deaths of many Christians.
This is proof that the Catholics and Protestants are different religions, just like Sunni and Shia Islam.
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