• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

[Advice Needed] Shareholding in a Pte Ltd company

Macroeconomics101

Alfrescian
Loyal
A couple of professors and another friend of theirs set up a company two years ago to provide tuition center services in Indonesia.

Recently, they wanted me to join their company. They offered me a directorship and 20% shareholding.

When I accepted their offer, I received a letter signed by the majority shareholder (who holds 60% stake) detailing that my stake in the company and the scope of my corporate responsibility. The format of the letter is like this:

XXX Company provides tuition services in Indonesia.
The address of the company is XXXYYY.
The shareholders are:
ABC: 60%
DEF: 10%
Me: 20%
GHI: 10%

The duties of Mr "Me" are as follows:
(a), (b), (c)

Signed,
Mr ABC

[Corporate stamp and logo - not photocopied]

[Company Incorporation address and Registration]

The letter seems quite flippant. Is it sufficient to guarantee that I really have a 20% stake in the company?
 

krafty

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
i suggest you check with a lawyer better than asking most of the half-baked professionals here.:p
 

Onitsuka

Alfrescian
Loyal
Of course it's not enough.

Do a check on the Indonesia's version of Singapore's ACRA and see if your name and shareholding are detailed accordingly.
 

krafty

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Of course it's not enough.

Do a check on the Indonesia's version of Singapore's ACRA and see if your name and shareholding are detailed accordingly.

yups, this sound better advice and to double confirm, as sinkie always does cos' of kiasuism, checking with your lawyer becomes mandatory.
 

harimau

Alfrescian
Loyal
No! You must check if there are anymore other owners or if there is a holding company which owns the company!

Pay some money and check the biz registry!

Also check if there are debts to be paid!

Otherwise you will be liable for the debts!

Is there laws against foreign ownership of Indonesian companies! Better consult an Indonesia lawyer or someone who is familiar with Indonesian laws!

The country is highly corrupted!
 
Last edited:

Macroeconomics101

Alfrescian
Loyal
Of course it's not enough.

Do a check on the Indonesia's version of Singapore's ACRA and see if your name and shareholding are detailed accordingly.


Apologies for not being clear. This a SG company incorporated in Singapore. All directors and shareholders are Singaporeans.
 

krafty

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
No! You must check if there are anymore other owners or if there is a holding company which owns the company!

Pay some money and check the biz registry!

Also check if there are debts to be paid!

Otherwise you will be liable for the debts!

Is there laws against foreign ownership of Indonesian companies! Better consult an Indonesia lawyer or someone who is familiar with Indonesian laws!

The country is highly corrupted!

tan kin lian comes to mind, he always do biz with indon.
 

aerobwala

Alfrescian
Loyal
SG company, check your company secretary that your name is entered in the Register of Members (a manual records keep by company), with correspondence authorisation by Board/Shareholders' minutes, and do an on line search pay S$5.50 to check the same records are updated in company profile maintains by ACRA.

Anyway, you are doing business in Indonesia without any form of registration, you will be landed in hot soup soon.
 

yinyang

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
...SG company incorporated in Singapore. All directors and shareholders are Singaporeans.
On your equity (shareholding), this must be formalised by company secretarial records. If incorporated Sg, all the more transparent, vouched by ACRA search.

On what business it can do, this is defined in company's legal constitution ie Memorandum and Articles of Association.

As a director, you need to understand and be familiar with broad legal duties and obligations (just search ACRA webbie).

As for your 'executive' role ie work duties and responsibilities -to be agreed and defined by board.

As for doing buz in Indonesia, diff ball game. Do you have a legal presence in Indonesia? Corporate taxes, withholding taxes (if income remitted to Singapore) must be addressed. Any malpractices, directors are liable
 

Onitsuka

Alfrescian
Loyal
Apologies for not being clear. This a SG company incorporated in Singapore. All directors and shareholders are Singaporeans.

How is a Singapore registered company going to run a tuition centre in Indonesia ?

That is something you should consider even if ACRA shows you are a shareholder of the Singapore registered company. Is the Singapore registered company a parent company of the entity that is going to run the tuition centre in Indonesia ?
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Did you ask yourself the fundamental question of all and that is WHY they need your equity?

No businessman in his right mind is going to voluntarily dilute his share in a business venture that is going well.

If you are satisfied that you have the answer to this question, it does not mean your troubles are over. It means that they are just beginning.

The company operates in a foreign land and as far as you are concerned, finances are nothing more than a black hole. Unless you make it your business to audit the cash flow independently on a regular basis, you have no choice but to naively trust what you are given with no way of verifying the accuracy or the validity of the accounts.

And we have not even started to dissect your exit strategy. Unless the goal is to take the company public, how are you going to cash out and take profit should the company actually make a pile of money?

The legal document to validate your 20% stake is honestly the least of your problems. Even if it was signed, sealed and validated by the highest court of the land, it means nothing because what you have done is given a free pass for the 60% stake holder to use your money as if it was his.

Not a very wise move in my books.

These sorts of deals may be OK between trusted friends that start a business from scratch because they realise they compliment each others skills eg Microsoft and Apple. However when done in a manner which you have just described, I smell a rat.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
A couple of professors and another friend of theirs set up a company two years ago to provide tuition center services in Indonesia.

Recently, they wanted me to join their company. They offered me a directorship and 20% shareholding.

When I accepted their offer, I received a letter signed by the majority shareholder (who holds 60% stake) detailing that my stake in the company and the scope of my corporate responsibility. The format of the letter is like this:

XXX Company provides tuition services in Indonesia.
The address of the company is XXXYYY.
The shareholders are:
ABC: 60%
DEF: 10%
Me: 20%
GHI: 10%

The duties of Mr "Me" are as follows:
(a), (b), (c)

Signed,
Mr ABC

[Corporate stamp and logo - not photocopied]

[Company Incorporation address and Registration]

The letter seems quite flippant. Is it sufficient to guarantee that I really have a 20% stake in the company?

You are asking all the wrong questions and non of the right questions. Because of this, I suggest you don't know what the fuck you are doing, so you should back out and educate yourself first.

Firstly, you ask whether the letter is sufficent to guarantee your 20% and you ask whether its too flippant. These are the last questions I would have asked. Who gives a fuck? You can hire a lawyer and in fact, the shareholders should all hire a lawyer to do the paperwork. New shares have to be issued, paper work has to be changed and reported to ROC, etc. ALl this is the job of the lawyer. Pay him and let him do the legal paperwork. Coming here and asking whether this letter is sufficient or not is pure stupidity. And all these people who are giving you advice and opinions on the letter and the shareholder paperwork with ACRA and what not, do not get it either.

The real questions you have to ask is:

1) How much money do I have to put in for the 20% stake? In what form is this money put in? eg shareholders loan, straight equity, share purchase, etc. What?
2) How do I get my money back?
3) What is my return or compensation? Is it dividends on my 20%? Is it salary? what is it?
4) What does the balance sheet and P & L look like? They must file annual reports since they are registered in singapore. Why do you need to know this? Because if the company has been losing money, 20% of the losses now belong to you.
5) What is their motivation for selling you 20% and bringing you in as a partner? Are they out of money, cash flow issues?
6) What is the credit of the company? Do they owe money to creditors? Are their assets more then their liabilities? This is important. If the company owes $300,000 to landlords, equipment leasing companies, etc. guess what, you have just volunteered to be on the hook for 20% of the debts too.
7)What is their assets? Goodwill? Computer equipment? what?
8) What is the business plan and mission statement of the company? Are they planning to franchise, expand? what is it? Who are their competitors? Why is their service suprerior or unique to all other tuition centres in Indonesia? Why buy into a company that has no prospects or weak prospects.

There are many many questions to be asked. Its all called DUE FUCKING DILIGENCE. You don't seem to have a grasp of it. BTW, If you have done your due diligence, you will know the letter issued to you by the 60% shareholder is not worth toilet paper. I would not buy any shares in a company and become a director if I did not have a 50 page shareholders agreement that includes first right of refusal clause, borrowing and financing clauses, non competition clauses, etc. U have the worse possible case scenario with a company registered in sinagpore, but doing business in Indonesia. But you don't seem to understand this.
 
Last edited:

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
There are many many questions to be asked. Its all called DUE FUCKING DILIGENCE. You don't seem to have a grasp of it. BTW, If you have done your due diligence, you will know the letter issued to you by the 60% shareholder is not worth toilet paper.

Wow we're actually in synch today. :p.. for the last few days in fact.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Thanks Sam, feel free to Upz me. LOL

I've seen so many cases of private partnerships where the most important issue of all ie HOW TO CASH OUT, is not even touched upon.

And when a company that has been running for a few years needs a cash injection and a director approaches me, I always tell the guy to GO TO THE BANK. If the bank won't come on board, I smell a rat straight away.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
I've seen so many cases of private partnerships where the most important issue of all ie HOW TO CASH OUT, is not even touched upon.

And when a company that has been running for a few years needs a cash injection and a director approaches me, I always tell the guy to GO TO THE BANK. If the bank won't come on board, I smell a rat straight away.

Yes, if the bank will not lend to them, that is a big warning sign. This is especially the case for Indon banks. I know several mid level loan managers that made a lot of money approving loans that should not have been touched. Bribery and corruption is the norm for some banks there to get loans. The big concern to me is that the 60% shareholder call the shots. He can vote anything he wants to favour himself. Mostly people who put in 20% never see their money again. The poster seems to be a naive person, hence the 60% owner approached him. the fact that he agreed already is a further confirmation to me that he has not done his due diligence.
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Where money is involved one must be cautious.
If business is so good, why would they invited you to join as director?

If you don't know who ALL the owners are you could be left holding the liabilities in Spore. Foreigners can simply run road while you as a Sporean have nowhere to go.
 

Macroeconomics101

Alfrescian
Loyal
SG company, check your company secretary that your name is entered in the Register of Members (a manual records keep by company), with correspondence authorisation by Board/Shareholders' minutes, and do an on line search pay S$5.50 to check the same records are updated in company profile maintains by ACRA.

On your equity (shareholding), this must be formalised by company secretarial records. If incorporated Sg, all the more transparent, vouched by ACRA search.

On what business it can do, this is defined in company's legal constitution ie Memorandum and Articles of Association.

Thank you, good advice and good information.
 
Top