A Malaysian account on Singapore HDB

[TeeKee]

Actually for Malaysiakini.com, you can put any name you want and they wil publish it when they like the article (it serves their cause).

u dun need malaysiakini.com to highlight the problems of wide income disparities in SGP.

just read the daily papers and meet the people in the street.

especially those who collect cardboards and fight over drink cans.

read about the indian girl who cannot afford to go to school.

read about the malay family who stayed in HDB void decks.

watch the TV program about family who cannot pay their utilities bills and got their water and electricity cut off..

wake up singaporeans!! wake up!

stop being indifferent and stop living in self denial..these are the realities of life.

 

[TeeKee]

So back to the point brought up earlier, are MYsian generally more happy then SGreans. I find myself agreeing with this however I disagree with the fact that MYsians are happier because they own cars, landed houses or any other tangible assets.

[deleted]...

 

[TeeKee]

There is seriously something wrong with the article or the land lord is seriously stingy, ignorant and greedy. Most likely this guy is staying in a poor part of Singapore, like Tajong Pagar GRC.

TPGRC poor? U must be kidding.

The properties there are highly valued...

 

[Char_Azn]

u dun need malaysiakini.com to highlight the problems of wide income disparities in SGP.

just read the daily papers and meet the people in the street.

especially those who collect cardboards and fight over drink cans.

read about the indian girl who cannot afford to go to school.

read about the malay family who stayed in HDB void decks.

watch the TV program about family who cannot pay their utilities bills and got their water and electricity cut off..

wake up singaporeans!! wake up!

stop being indifferent, stop living in self denial..

The sad fact about all of this is that there usually is help available but they don't know how to find it. One of the government's greatest problem is they provide help for these pple but don't make this readily known to the pple who need it. Makes you wonder why they provide help in the first place. It has also been reported that a number of pple who are too proud to ask for help. Seriously if you need help, go get it. Pride will not fill your stomachs.

With that said, there is a serious issue with the rich/poor gap. The government is at present too pro-employer. The logic behind the whole thing is that the company earn money, part of that money will make its way to the bottom of the food chain. Well it isn't happening, and the government needs to take another serious look at it

However I am against the idea of minimum wage system which a lot in here are advocating. Ultimately, someone is going to have to pay that extra amount of money needed for the minimum wages and in the end, the consumers will be the one to suffer. Since it will push the price of goods and services up. Nothing will change. The poor who are getting better pay will find that their money will get them less.

 

[TeeKee]

If MIWs are getting millions, what's left for the bottom of the food chain? The govt. is not setting a good example.

And with news like SHT and CPhua, do you think more people will come forward to ask for help?

The pays in SGP with per capita income higher than most developed countries is really ridiculous.

I support the minimum wage, because of potential exploitation from employers hiring cheaper FTs than locals.

Where do you get the idea that min. wage will increase the price of goods and services?

 

[denzuko1]

u dun need malaysiakini.com to highlight the problems of wide income disparities in SGP.

just read the daily papers and meet the people in the street.

especially those who collect cardboards and fight over drink cans.

read about the indian girl who cannot afford to go to school.

read about the malay family who stayed in HDB void decks.

watch the TV program about family who cannot pay their utilities bills and got their water and electricity cut off..

wake up singaporeans!! wake up!

stop being indifferent and stop living in self denial..these are the realities of life.

There is no denying that poverty exists in every country and society. It is interesting that you mention about all these poverty from news. To be honest, it is in Singapore that poverty makes news. You can go to Malaysia and you won't find these as news at all.

It might be very cold to use statistic to justify Singapore records on poverty. The fact remains that there are very very few cases where people has no roof over their heads, which is an envy of other nations. Even in first world countries such as those in Europe and America, homeless people are common sight.

Needless to mention our neighbour Malaysia which is still a developing country. The percentage of people in poverty is so much higher than in Singapore. Same goes with education, there is only a small handful number of people who can't afford education of at less Secondary level as compare to other countries.

Even with the Government wayang on many matters, at least most of the Singaporeans are assured with basic neccessities for a living. Our neighbours nearby is a far cry in comparison.

 

[TeeKee]

why do you want to compare with countries with developing countries per capita income?

it's more relevant to compare with developed countries per capita income.

of course there are poverty everywhere...

but do you think it's acceptable for govt. to get fat paychecks when more and more of it's citizens are wallowing in poverty?

 

[Char_Azn]

Where do you get the idea that min. wage will increase the price of goods and services?

Simple logic. e.g. if U increase the wages of your workers, that money has to come from somewhere. The wage increase to the workers are forced upon U by the minimum wage rules, however, just because U increase the wage of the workers doesn't mean your workers become superman and can provide different or better service. So essentially you have the same group of pple with the same skillsets, providing the exact same service however now your overheads have increased drastically. Your profits will suffer as a result, how are U going to resolve the problem of your profits going down?

Without the option of providing additional services or goods, the only option is to increase the price of the service/goods. Ultimately someone has to bear the cost, the money will not magically appear out of thin air. So in the end it will work its way back to the consumer. Unless some economist can come up with a working model that can work out and increase in profits with the increase in overheads by providing the same exact service without increasing the cost, the cost will have to be bore by consumers. Price increase in inevitable

 

[TeeKee]

why can't you increase the quality and quantity of production by deploying more efficient workflows and automate the process by running it 24x7, with fewer workers or trained workers to make them productive with the comprable min wage?

if you raise prices by few cents, do you think people will stop buying your products if it's good quality?

if people are not satisfied with their pay, do you think they'll perform better by worrying about their next meal?

could this explain the high turnovers in companies in sgp?

 

[littlefish]

However I am against the idea of minimum wage system which a lot in here are advocating. Ultimately, someone is going to have to pay that extra amount of money needed for the minimum wages and in the end, the consumers will be the one to suffer. Since it will push the price of goods and services up. Nothing will change. The poor who are getting better pay will find that their money will get them less.

Minimum wage is just one of the strategies to ensure that people have a decent minimum standard of living (proper safety nets are needed as well). While I agree that implementing minimum wage by itself without giving sufficient thought to the impact is foolish, it remains a tool to be used for distribution of income. However, whatever the means, it is most likely that the middle class will still be the one screwed as the extremely rich will always have ways to get around the rules. The minimum wage is also to ensure that businesses don't pay too low and then claim that no Singaporeans want the jobs, thus justifying their calls to open the floodgates to workers from developing countries. There is no way that Singapore can compete on low wages but the sad truth is that the government has no idea how to solve this competition problem either.

The problem here is that the tripartite agreement is a sham and power has been stripped away from the labour movement (while those who are supposed to be impartial referees to balance the power struggle are paying themselves obscene amounts of money). Don't tell me about the problems that may arise if the labour movement is an equal partner in sharing the economic pie because that role is the responsibility of the government. Such power corrections occur during changes of government. As most Singaporeans are risk-averse, they prefer to deal with the known devil rather than an unknown one.

 

[dupersuper]

Seriously, I don't think its limit by area. I have an Uncle who lives in a 3 room flat(near Commonwealth area), and my mum's friend living in Chinatown(behind Chinatown point), both receiving Workfare. I'm fairly certain both areas are quite a bit more expensive then Clementi or Sembawang. However both are single so I, frankly speaking, do not know if married couples who are eligible will be able to get twice the amount

good to know that people are really receiving help.
but the information i got is from official website of cpf (which specify must live in flat of below 11k value) and hdb (value of hdb).

 

[Cestbon]

High property price/rental, GST and no minimun wage is making Singapore so poor today. Poor become poorer.
Property and GST keep increasing but wage keep reducing that will kill PAP in next election. Of course PAP will still control the Parliment but Opposition seat will increase to 10 seat or more in my prediction.
Many HDB owner have to rent out room to get extra income. I estimate about at least 30% HDB flat rent out at least one room.
Some of course have 2nd property like condo/landed property to live but rent out the whole HDB flat. Some even rent out whole HDB and live in JB. Gov/PAP should look into this loop hole and conficated back all the flat that rented whole unit out. Since owner are not using it. But to make money out of it coursing price keep on increase.
But of course PAP/Gov act blur because if GOV take action property price will drop 50% with sudden increase of supply.

 

[angry_one]

To be honest, it is in Singapore that poverty makes news. You can go to Malaysia and you won't find these as news at all.

That's because we compare today's singapore to that of the 80s and 90s, when life was better and it was the real golden period. Besides, poverty is even less in 1st world countries, except a few basket cases like the US.

So why don't I move over to Mudland? At least there's better infrastructure and some rule of law here, so I'm willing to bear with it until i move to a country with even more to offer.

 

[Char_Azn]

why can't you increase the quality and quantity of production by deploying more efficient workflows and automate the process by running it 24x7, with fewer workers or trained workers to make them productive with the comprable min wage?

if you raise prices by few cents, do you think people will stop buying your products if it's good quality?

if people are not satisfied with their pay, do you think they'll perform better by worrying about their next meal?

could this explain the high turnovers in companies in sgp?

We have to remember that this are suppose to benefit the poor whom are already doing extremely low level jobs. There is very little you can actually do to the workflow and processes in this case to increase productivity.

Just to state an example, for someone doing sales, we can improve the process between issuing of a sales order until the goods delivered to the customers. There are many stages involved in between and some of it can be cut down to improve productivity. Or even changing to a more automated system to speed up the process. However, how are U going to improve the workflow of a Food Court Cleaner/Dishwasher.

Even if you can somehow improve the number of dishes the Dishwasher washes, the time taken for the cleaner to clean a table, do you think someone the Food Court stall management really cares if you are able to do it faster? I don't think so. Cost is more of a concern for them since no matter how fast U clean a table, there is only so many tables in the food court. And if everyone is forced to pay more due to a minimum wage system, they will just jack up the prices to maintain profits.

What PAP is doing right now with the various training program e.g. SPUR is to try and improve the skillsets of the lowest level worker to either move up the foodchain or at the very least have an extra skill hence ccan command a higher pay. Whether it is working or not, well U be the judge

 

[dysentry]

we're headed for the fate of HK, where high property prices and high stress cause people to throw acid on shoppers from high floors and ram buses into sidewalk pedestrians...

at least they have homogenity, here we have many animal tongues and third world farmboys...

 

[Char_Azn]

After HK, we'll go the way of Japan where instead of throwing Acid onto the streets they throw themselves onto the streets

 

[congo9]

If the cost of running a business is too high , something got to give. It the Rental of course ! A small space outside a retail shop box in red cost $1500 per month to rent.

Get a reality check. Again , who is the biggest land lord in Singapore ? Of course the goverment !

It the total cost of doing business.

TC =WAGE + Rental Cost. If the wage cannot be cut , then it boils down to the rental cost. But then , who will let the valuation of the property drop ? It may cost riot to Singapore.

But i think it insensible to cut property cost, i think goverment can cut cost by decreasing the utilitiy bills, property tax ,transport charges and conservancy charges.

 

[congo9]

Even if you can somehow improve the number of dishes the Dishwasher washes, the time taken for the cleaner to clean a table, do you think someone the Food Court stall management really cares if you are able to do it faster? I don't think so. Cost is more of a concern for them since no matter how fast U clean a table, there is only so many tables in the food court. And if everyone is forced to pay more due to a minimum wage system, they will just jack up the prices to maintain profits
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If one cleaner can do all the cleaning up on his or her own fast enough , you can have more business turn around.The cleaner can also double up his job scope as dish washer. There is dish washing machine now. So we do not need people to physically wash the plates. Just need her to place the plates there.

Instead of using cheap labour, we can increase our productivity by using our kjnowledge and advantage. Thus, our total productivity goes up.Our current employer is being spoilt by the goverment themselves.

Just imagine, there is dish washing machine in Coffee shop. They can save so much money in long term. We shd not be competing on labour cost now. We shd be competing on technology and know edge to give all our counter part a run for their money.

Now it isnt abt cost. We are using technology to increase our productivity, thus bringing down the cost indirectly. Back to the question of wage, if i can hire someone who can run all my operation in one go through use of technology, i can naturally pay him or her better.

 

[Char_Azn]

Even if you can somehow improve the number of dishes the Dishwasher washes, the time taken for the cleaner to clean a table, do you think someone the Food Court stall management really cares if you are able to do it faster? I don't think so. Cost is more of a concern for them since no matter how fast U clean a table, there is only so many tables in the food court. And if everyone is forced to pay more due to a minimum wage system, they will just jack up the prices to maintain profits
==================================================================
If one cleaner can do all the cleaning up on his or her own fast enough , you can have more business turn around.The cleaner can also double up his job scope as dish washer. There is dish washing machine now. So we do not need people to physically wash the plates. Just need her to place the plates there.

Instead of using cheap labour, we can increase our productivity by using our kjnowledge and advantage. Thus, our total productivity goes up.Our current employer is being spoilt by the goverment themselves.

Just imagine, there is dish washing machine in Coffee shop. They can save so much money in long term. We shd not be competing on labour cost now. We shd be competing on technology and know edge to give all our counter part a run for their money.

Now it isnt abt cost. We are using technology to increase our productivity, thus bringing down the cost indirectly. Back to the question of wage, if i can hire someone who can run all my operation in one go through use of technology, i can naturally pay him or her better.

I'm not quite sure whether U've worked in a Kitchen with a dishwashing machine before but using a Dishwashing machine doesnt mean U just move the dishes into the machine and turn it on. U actually still need to clean it first before U actually put it in the dishwashing machine to have it clean again. If you don't believe me, just try and walk into a restaurant with a dishwashing machine. That's how its actually done.

 

[congo9]

The rational is that " CHEAP LABOUR " is just a drug addiction. Employers will get hooked to it or rather they got hooked to it already. They are just too lazy to innovate, except to hire some cheap labour to do the job to better improve their margin in short term. They have just lost the vision.

Now goverment has already withdraw for work permit PRC to come in to their "SERVICE", they are just suffering from withdrawal symtom.

To the employers : Innovate at all cost. No point hiring cheap labour anymore.