Rental and Resale (All about Rental and Resale prices in Iskandar)

Oh thanks for the clear explanation, Tekkun!
The legal firm is tkkco. Have u heard of it?
If I use own lawyer the fees are 2.6 times higher.
Wuji-kor has always advocate use own lawyer, but ...

Tekkun said:

I normally find my own lawyer cos it is better for 2 lawyers to cross check everything. And the banker's lawyers also will check before releasing money. It is normal to have a stakeholder lawyer. Basically it is to hold the money / property during the transition of changing names and payment. If the lawyer is a big reputable firm, then no problems. If small timer, then have to be a bit careful.

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kawan2sgmy said:

Oh thanks for the clear explanation, Tekkun!
The legal firm is tkkco. Have u heard of it?
If I use own lawyer the fees are 2.6 times higher.
Wuji-kor has always advocate use own lawyer, but ...

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Question:
You signed already or not? If signed already, cross yr fingers and cross your toes lor.
Take the agreement and go ask for a 2nd opinion to see if all is ok.

Note there are many things in a S & P such as Caveats, Completion period, refund of deposits with or without interests, cost of approvals, Financier undertaking, Transfer, RPGT, etc. It is not as simple as after transfer, no money paid problems.

Not signed yet, going to...
Thanks for the good advice, esp those points which are highlighted, I go figure out where to get 2nd opinion...

Tekkun said:

Question:
You signed already or not? If signed already, cross yr fingers and cross your toes lor.
Take the agreement and go ask for a 2nd opinion to see if all is ok.

Note there are many things in a S & P such as Caveats, Completion period, refund of deposits with or without interests, cost of approvals, Financier undertaking, Transfer, RPGT, etc. It is not as simple as after transfer, no money paid problems.

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kawan2sgmy said:

Oh thanks for the clear explanation, Tekkun!
The legal firm is tkkco. Have u heard of it?
If I use own lawyer the fees are 2.6 times higher.
Wuji-kor has always advocate use own lawyer, but ...

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ownself check ownself?

Ya, sounds funny!
I hope our case is a very straight forward case, no hiccups along the way!
Anyway, I am trying very hard to understand the SPA contents, am using all my brain power to focus, make sure they don't short changed me with all their 'funny' terms. If I find their terms not very in my favour, esp those highlighted by Tekkun, I will need to raise up. The problem I encounter is: when I read the second or third part of a sentence, I have forgotten what is the first part. Legal docs are damn dry.

Movingaway said:

ownself check ownself?

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kawan2sgmy said:

Ya, sounds funny!
I hope our case is a very straight forward case, no hiccups along the way!
Anyway, I am trying very hard to understand the SPA contents, am using all my brain power to focus, make sure they don't short changed me with all their 'funny' terms. If I find their terms not very in my favour, esp those highlighted by Tekkun, I will need to raise up. The problem I encounter is: when I read the second or third part of a sentence, I have forgotten what is the first part. Legal docs are damn dry.

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As Malaysia's legal fees are quite ex, it's quite common to use the buyer's lawyers for the transaction. Advice from my lawyer: Unless you dont really trust the other side, he advises to only use the buyer's lawyers for 2nd hand purchases.

For 1st hand direct from developer, it's ok to use the developer's lawyers as the 1st hand SPA is protected by Malaysia's Housing Act, and cant be changed easily.

I more 'pang shim' after reading what you wrote. Many times, when we are working with ppl overseas, often times, we have to base on trust. And the trust is based on your 'gut feeling' and from yr own experience of how you judge ppl, in other words need 'x-ray' eyes and good judgement. But we have to be prepared if things go wrong, we have to bear our own consequences. So it is always - time exchange for money, or money exchange for time.

I have called my previous lawyer if she could help to simply vet through the SPA, and we will pay her for the job done unofficially. But she said they don't do such things. Well I guess that is called professional ethics. So in this case, I am taking a gamble! Wish me luck - soon soon li li

RedsYNWA said:

As Malaysia's legal fees are quite ex, it's quite common to use the buyer's lawyers for the transaction. Advice from my lawyer: Unless you dont really trust the other side, he advises to only use the buyer's lawyers for 2nd hand purchases.

For 1st hand direct from developer, it's ok to use the developer's lawyers as the 1st hand SPA is protected by Malaysia's Housing Act, and cant be changed easily.

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I have raised a few points to the lawyer.
There was 1 particular clause which I am not exactly comfortable with; it's like giving the purchaser a blank cheque.
Let's see what is their response.
I am prepared to change to my trusted lawyer anytime now!

Tekkun said:

Then you find our own trusted lawyer la

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kawan2sgmy said:

I have raised a few points to the lawyer.
There was 1 particular clause which I am not exactly comfortable with; it's like giving the purchaser a blank cheque.
Let's see what is their response.
I am prepared to change to my trusted lawyer anytime now!

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Pay a little bit extra and get a good night sleep. Sometimes it is cheaper than the many trips you have to make to solve a problematic deal.
Good coming Good going (Ho lei Ho keir). Good luck.

Understand what you meant by your kind words!
Will be going to the lawyer's office soon to sign the SPA.
Ok, some good news; managed to make my stand to delete an unwanted clause, which to me or to anybody else, a very grey area, at least can sleep in peace for the time being until full completion - 3 mths later.
The lawyer kept emphasizing it's standard clause and refuse to budge initially.
So it depends very much the ball is in whose court at this stage. But be prepared the buyer may also call off the deal. I was prepared for the worst outcome!
Btw, another question:
at what stage do we pay agent commission - after received the balance 9% or after full completion?
also why need to submit old SPA to lawyer? Is it buyer need it or issit for filing seller income tax dept? Do we need to submit the whole set of SPA or just the front few pages?
TIA

Tekkun said:

Pay a little bit extra and get a good night sleep. Sometimes it is cheaper than the many trips you have to make to solve a problematic deal.
Good coming Good going (Ho lei Ho keir). Good luck.

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Movingaway said:

ownself check ownself?

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Whether you use own lawyer or buyer's lawyer, best is still ownself check ownself especially if not own lawyer. Own lawyer can still f things unless you get an experienced and expensive lawyer. Ownself check ownself must all make sure what should be in the SPA and not only what's in it - but have you got the experience and knowledge of the country and its laws?

kawan2sgmy said:

Understand what you meant by your kind words!
Will be going to the lawyer's office soon to sign the SPA.
Ok, some good news; managed to make my stand to delete an unwanted clause, which to me or to anybody else, a very grey area, at least can sleep in peace for the time being until full completion - 3 mths later.
The lawyer kept emphasizing it's standard clause and refuse to budge initially.
So it depends very much the ball is in whose court at this stage. But be prepared the buyer may also call off the deal. I was prepared for the worst outcome!
Btw, another question:
at what stage do we pay agent commission - after received the balance 9% or after full completion?
also why need to submit old SPA to lawyer? Is it buyer need it or issit for filing seller income tax dept? Do we need to submit the whole set of SPA or just the front few pages?
TIA

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1. Commission is payable only upon full completion. Surely you don't want to be stuck where you paid tens of thousands on commission and then they abort the deal.

2. If the title deed is not issued which normally happen only many years later, the original S & P become sort of de facto title deed as it is the proof of purchase between the first owner and the developer. This subsequent S & P is actually a Deed of Assignment between first buyer and the second buyer. If you have a bank loan, then the bank keep the original S & P and then they release it to your lawyer only after you had redeemed your existing loan.

Sorry for late reply. I suppose all is neat and tidy.

Thanks for yr reply, it's better late than never reply, hahaha! The past few days days, other threads like PH and 1 or 2 other threads were on the top charts, debating fiercely from different points of views amongst all types of investors. Very active forumers at work!

Ok, just an update, have signed the SPA. Of the 10% received, I have contributed 65% of it to the M'sian economy: legal fees, LDHN, agent's commission. I must say if there is money to shared, people very fast hand and fast leg come to take their share. Agent commission also paid at this stage. So if you want to sell your house, pls check their terms first. For my case, I insist that they include extra clause to be fully responsible until full completion. Agents and lawyers always tell you all are standard clauses, to make their job easier I guess, but you can still change abit here and there if you argue your points right. I expect to see the bal 90% to come in in 3mths time.

I think it's better to use Tekkun's agent and lawyer, somehow he has re-trained them to better suit one's needs. If you don't mind hor?

Tekkun said:

1. Commission is payable only upon full completion. Surely you don't want to be stuck where you paid tens of thousands on commission and then they abort the deal.

2. If the title deed is not issued which normally happen only many years later, the original S & P become sort of de facto title deed as it is the proof of purchase between the first owner and the developer. This subsequent S & P is actually a Deed of Assignment between first buyer and the second buyer. If you have a bank loan, then the bank keep the original S & P and then they release it to your lawyer only after you had redeemed your existing loan.

Sorry for late reply. I suppose all is neat and tidy.

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You are right, really need to check very clause and every page!
For my case, when lawyer office sent the docs to me by email, 1 page was missing, 1 clause was numbered wrongly, and even my name was spelt wrongly!!!

dumb1 said:

Whether you use own lawyer or buyer's lawyer, best is still ownself check ownself especially if not own lawyer. Own lawyer can still f things unless you get an experienced and expensive lawyer. Ownself check ownself must all make sure what should be in the SPA and not only what's in it - but have you got the experience and knowledge of the country and its laws?

Click to expand...

kawan2sgmy said:

Thanks for yr reply, it's better late than never reply, hahaha! The past few days days, other threads like PH and 1 or 2 other threads were on the top charts, debating fiercely from different points of views amongst all types of investors. Very active forumers at work!

Ok, just an update, have signed the SPA. Of the 10% received, I have contributed 65% of it to the M'sian economy: legal fees, LDHN, agent's commission. I must say if there is money to shared, people very fast hand and fast leg come to take their share. Agent commission also paid at this stage. So if you want to sell your house, pls check their terms first. For my case, I insist that they include extra clause to be fully responsible until full completion. Agents and lawyers always tell you all are standard clauses, to make their job easier I guess, but you can still change abit here and there if you argue your points right. I expect to see the bal 90% to come in in 3mths time.

I think it's better to use Tekkun's agent and lawyer, somehow he has re-trained them to better suit one's needs. If you don't mind hor?

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Good to know you nailed it. Congrats.
After a while with all those lawyers and S&Ps, you will get used to the terms and conditions.
No need special training. All you need is conditions precedents, defaults by vendor, defaults by buyer and time & method of completion.

One more thing, remember to cancel your electrical and water accounts, take back your deposits. This is because if there's any defaults in your former properties if you did not cancel, you would be directly liable for it. You won't be able to new supply to properties.

You are a seasoned property investor, know the rules of game inside out! Thanks for sharing some of your experiences.
Yes, the agent will handle the termination of electricity for us. I printed the form from Tenaga National website which is in English. As for the balance deposit, Tenaga will send the cheque to our S'pore address.
As for water and maintenance charges, we paid up to Dec. So, ya, I hope everything is smooth sailing.

Tekkun said:

Good to know you nailed it. Congrats.
After a while with all those lawyers and S&Ps, you will get used to the terms and conditions.
No need special training. All you need is conditions precedents, defaults by vendor, defaults by buyer and time & method of completion.

One more thing, remember to cancel your electrical and water accounts, take back your deposits. This is because if there's any defaults in your former properties if you did not cancel, you would be directly liable for it. You won't be able to new supply to properties.

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kawan2sgmy said:

You are right, really need to check very clause and every page!
For my case, when lawyer office sent the docs to me by email, 1 page was missing, 1 clause was numbered wrongly, and even my name was spelt wrongly!!!

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Tell him that you going to deduct part of the fee for shoddy work. Read other SPA and note useful clauses others have that you don't have to protect your interest and to delete too onerous responsibility place on you. If you are selling property under construction or subsale, make sure buyer is bound by clauses in the original SPA with the developers.

Am wondering if anyone care to share about their experience in renting out a condo recently. My friend bought a unit in Impiana and I hear she is having difficulty getting tenants. Is it the same case in Bukit Indah, HH, Medini and Zone A as well? Please share any recent transactions.

Chocolate said:

Am wondering if anyone care to share about their experience in renting out a condo recently. My friend bought a unit in Impiana and I hear she is having difficulty getting tenants. Is it the same case in Bukit Indah, HH, Medini and Zone A as well? Please share any recent transactions.

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Can't help you much here. But from a friend's aunt who is Malaysian, yes, rental is difficult and low.

Some of the condos in Bukit Indah are also facing problems now, not just rental. The recently completed D Inspire was poorly designed, not according to the expectations of buyers, poor workmanship and the last I heard, part of it was already converted to a cheap motel. Buyers are frustrated as expected.

Puteri Harbour condo is also not doing well at the moment. All the whatever promised ferry service to Singapore is a fairy tale which buyers of that area's properties hold on to tightly as they continue to dream about their Sentosa-like living experience.

Medini is not even completed yet so can't talk about rental. This place had many rushing in to buy condos some 2-3 years ago. From an investment point of view, this place has a gloomy outlook to many property analysts (and to me also). There is a huge oversupply coming up in the next 2-3 years and beyond. You don't expect to get good rentals or even be able to find tenants or buyers.

If you ask people here, many of them will tell you all the above are not true. That's because their views are naturally biased and they have vested interest in the Iskandar properties they have bought.

I suggest you talk to people who have not bought Iskandar properties, people out of this forum, and those who are not trying to sell you anything (Eg property agents) to understand the situation better.

Unless it's money you are willing to lose, or you have too much excess money lying around not knowing what to do with them, I see Iskandar properties as risky and uncertain. If you really really feel the itch to buy, do it for your own use or retirement. But again, be prepared to hold on to it possibly at loss.

Buy for own use / retirement - prepared hold on to it possibly at loss?
If buying for own use / retirement, making $ is last thing on our mind le brudder. (Thanks for your advices anyway)
Eg: Spore's new 45years Flexi 2room Mickey mouse Flat at mature estate for retirees.
Can cost as high as 500k MYR after conversion. Unable resell. Diminishing returns. Yet sold out. Why?
Answer: Because it's for retirees… Not for investment. Iskandar properties are Freehold!!! (Why do i even bother?)

:*: