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What do you think of Japan's militarization plans?

maozedong

Alfrescian
Loyal
So what if the shrine also has the remains of ordinary soldiers? If the Chancellor of Germany were to pay respect to such a shrine (having the remains of Hitler, war criminals and ordinary soldiers), the West would not allow it. More importantly, the descendents of the ordinary dead soldiers would've objected to the remains being buried together with the Class A war criminals.

Why the double standards? One, China is weak. Israel is powerful and like what Mahatir said, the Jews rule the world via proxy (USA). Two, it is because of people like you. The Europeans, even those who didn't suffer directly under the Nazis, know the need to remember the lessons of history and they would protest if Germany does something disrespectful to the victims and the memory of the war. A lot of Asians like you, on the other hand, couldn't care less.

Sure, what the Japanese military did in WW2 has got nothing to with the Japanese people today - and I do n not harbor any animosity against the ordinary Japanese. But the far right is still controlling Japan today, and I would be wary of them - and their PMs visiting the Shrine is actually a big deal. Note that most but not all of their PMs visited the Shrine. Only those from the Far Right. The recent PM from the Left (which briefly grabbed power from the LDP for the first time in history) didn't visit the Shrine. The LDP is Far Right.




For your information , Yasukuni shrine did not only buried war criminals .The shrine is not only for soldiers but for anyone who died on behalf of the Emperor of Japan . there are relief workers, factory workers, citizens and those not of Japanese ethnicity such as Taiwanese and Koreans who served Japan. So what's wrong with paying respect to them ? By the way many current generation of Japanese also ashamed of the evil deed which their country had cause during war time .

This is the list of war apology statements issued by the state of Japan in regards to war crimes and atrocities committed by the Empire of Japan during World War II . http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
 
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Spock

Alfrescian
Loyal
if war leh...........China is almost surrounded..........


Japan, Sth Korea and Taiwan to the East.............

Vietnam to Southeast...........

India to Southwest............

Tibet and Xinjiang rebel..........

Throughout history, China has always been faced with enemies on multiple fronts. This is nothing new. China has been and will always be the big brother in Asia. In their current state, I doubt any of the countries you mentioned have the resources or the will to launch a full-scale war against China, even if they have the support of the US. The most probable likelihood will be small regional skirmishes that will be contained easily. Even if all the countries attack China together, the will of the Chinese today will not allow China to be conquered. If you think otherwise, you are seriously underestimating the Chinese.

Taiwan will never invade China because they too are Chinese (civil war is no longer in fashion). South Korea have no major grievances with China, so they are unlikely to want to stir things to a boil. Vietnam is only interested in defending its territorial claims which can be resolved diplomatically. India is beset with too many internal problems to start a war with a major power. The only worry is the Japanese Far Right fanatics who want provocation. If they do succeed, I would worry more for Japan than China. As for the rebels, they will not succeed as I have already said that the will of the Chinese today will not allow for China to be broken up.
 

AndroAsc

Alfrescian
Loyal
1: You are wrong here. The US intelligence agencies like the CIA is well known for sabotaging the govts of other countries. It has managed to destablize latin american countries so that none of them are of any threat to the US. In any case you yourself admitted it's the aggressor in the middle east. That alone is enough cause to show that the US Is aggressively attacking other countries. Look at the way you write with the exception of the middle east like somehow excusing the US for attacking the middle eastern countries. Were china to attack any middle eastern country just 1 you would be blasting china to hell. Honestly just from pt 1 alone it shows how bias you are. With the exception of the middle east indeed. :rolleyes: Oh yes the US needs to attack every country in every region before you will admit it has aggressive policies.

Ah Tiong cock sucker is back again!!!

So if the US intelligence agencies are so good at sabotaging other govts, tell me why they have not managed to undermine the Chinese govt? If the US intelligence agencies are that aggressive, how did they manage to let China grow so much power that it is holding America's balls in their hands (economically speaking)? Attacking Middle East for oil is a perfectly rational choice for any growing country with power. US chooses to use military action, China prefers to use back-handed energy deals (after seeing how military action can backfire on your PR image, they learned from US mistakes). Does that makes China better than US? No, it just makes China smarter than US (in retrospect). Both actions are in the self-interest of each nation. AND again your are missing the point, with the exception of the middle east, has the US taken any serious military action against other countries in recent history? NO... so your BS claim that US is always the aggressor is bullshit. US don't fight wars for fun, they fight wars for tangible reasons that will (in theory) benefit their people. And if China had not engage in economic warfare against the US, America would have no reason to be enemies with China. SO back to my point again in US vs China, it was China to fired the first shot.

2. This is BS. The fact of the matter is both countries have their faults. No country is the lesser of the other. Mind you china has not reach super power status and have the reach the US has. The day china has that can this be judged in a more objective manner.

That's your fucking prerogative, you can believe whatever you like. But given the no. of countries in Asia that align themselves more with the US:Japan, S.Korea, Philippines, Thailand, Singapore(?), it says a lot of who the lesser of two evils is.

3. China has a uniform racial composition cos it is china. :rolleyes: Mind you the EU is opening it's doors to immigrants from all over the world and creating problems there but let's leave that aside. China has foreigners like africans and people the world over. There's nothing wrong in having a uniform racial composition. Korea has many koreans, japan japanese, thailand thais and russia russians. You don't have a right to talk shit about racial composition and judge a country as being racist due to that factor. Remember your last post to me where you said the diversity in china doesn't matter cos the minorities in china all look chinese and therefore that isn't true racial diversity and you wrote it in a very vague manner cos you wanted to hide how ridiculous that sounds.

You are a FUCKING RETARD because you still cannot understand that it is BOTH racial composition AND the type of government/society that tells whether or not a country is racist or not. Korean and Japanese have a democratic governments (relatively speaking), and it means that minorities have voice. China is a facist govt, and is ruled by the Chinese majority, and they preach anti-US (or more generally anti-non-Chinese) propaganda to their entire population. So yes, China is made up of a bunch of Chinese racists.

The US doesn't attack the EU cos the EU is an ally. The UK is the closest ally of the US for obvious reasons both are anglo speaking countries not because the EU is more morally upright you dumbass. Your reasonings are really retarded.

Why is the EU an ally? Because they are a honorable civilization that respect others. Not because they speaking English you dumb fuck.

4. You see how dumb your reasoning is here. Ok the US is busy bullying the cave dwellers in the middle east as you put it now isn't that aggresive action? Suffice to say the US is actually very aggressive in putting in place policies that benefits only it and its allies. What you are saying is that were it not for the middle east that it's caught up in the US would have more resources to concentrate on china. Look at it from this angle. Suppose i say were it not for the middle east china would have concentrated more on the US this alone shows how aggressive china is but somehow cos it's the US perfectly fine for them to be aggressive to the middle east. Btw don't come and discuss issues like the islands to me. ok the islands don't belong to china so do they belong to either japan or the philippines? Mind you each country wants those islands for themselves. If china was doing what germany did during ww2 lands belonging to neighbouring countries would have been attacked which were not. Btw china did not even actively attack and occupy the islands. They only protested it that's it how is that comparable to germany in ww2?

You keep bringing in your red herring argument when we are talking about US vs China NOT US vs Middle East. And so I will not entertain your irrelevant arguments that has no relevance to US vs China. The only difference between Germany in the first days of WW2 is that they invaded Poland. Right now China is thinking of invading Japan/Philippines (whoever that controls the so called disputed islands). You want to dispute on the technicality that China has not invaded anyone at this time, fine I let you win. I will bet with you that China will take military action to secure those territories some time in the future.

You are definitely wrong on all counts just admit your biasness and that's fine.

Look at this sentence here. I'm sorry, but your argument that US is an aggressive bully does not hold in context against China. Against the middle east countries I can at least concede on that ground, but against China? FUCK NO

US is well known for being an aggressive bully towards other nations but other nations don't have the right to take offence first cos a good offense is actually the best form of defense. That's your reasoning which shows what a US dog you are. Also china has not actually made any offense against the US only increased it's defense against a big bully.

US has NEVER taken aggressive postures against China until VERY recently, so your good offense is the best defense is BS excuse, because US was NEVER threat to China to begin with. In fact looking at recent history, when US is so busy bombing cave dwellers in the Middle East, there is no reason that China should worry about US coming after them, as long as they trade fairly with the US (i.e. behave like EU). And btw China's increased military spending developing anti-US technologies IS AN AGGRESSIVE move against the US. America has to counter them with an appropriate response.

I see the country that caused so much chaos to so many asian countries during ww2 should be allowed to rise again cos as you know it's probably better to be being a jap vassal state and mind you when china actually makes another country a chinese vassal state then you come in to say other countries become vassal states of china. As of now not even 1 country is a vassal state of china and you can create this imaginary scenerio. :rolleyes: Then again from the look of things you would even be a slave of any other country just as long as you aren't the slave of china sounds really stupid to me.

As I said, I don't give a fuck about what Japan did in WW2 that is ancient history. I give a fuck about what Japan/China do today. N.Korea is a China vassal state btw. And if not for US backing, I'm sure Japan and S.Korea would fall under China's influence as well, particularly for Japan because their constitution limits their military capability. And you conveniently forget that China military build up is not for fun. Sooner or latter, China will flex her military muscles and start projecting her power/influence to SE Asia, making the countries in that region vassal states of the China hegemony. FYI, some countries in SE Asia like Thailand, Philippines, even as far as Australia and hopefully Singapore (although the PAP always behaves like a two-timing China+US cocksucker, so who knows how this will turn up) have already chosen to side with US or asked for US intervention. This is very indicative of their fear that if China is left unchecked, they will become vassal states of China. If China is really so much better than US (since US is the evil aggressor who will bully anyone for no rhyme and reason - as you have suggested), why the fuck is almost every country around China asking US for help/intervention? According to your dumb fuck logic, they should all welcome China's rise right, and use the opportunity to give a big middle finger to America right? The only problem is THAT'S NOT HAPPENING, and that says something about your dumb fuck arguments.
 
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Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Ah Tiong cock sucker is back again!!!

So it's better being a US cock sucker? I state the facts correctly you lie and BS your way thru as can be plainly seen here.

So if the US intelligence agencies are so good at sabotaging other govts, tell me why they have not managed to undermine the Chinese govt? If the US intelligence agencies are that aggressive, how did they manage to let China grow so much power that it is holding America's balls in their hands (economically speaking)? Attacking Middle East for oil is a perfectly rational choice for any growing country with power. US chooses to use military action, China prefers to use back-handed energy deals (after seeing how military action can backfire on your PR image, they learned from US mistakes). Does that makes China better than US? No, it just makes China smarter than US (in retrospect). Both actions are in the self-interest of each nation. AND again your are missing the point, with the exception of the middle east, has the US taken any serious military action against other countries in recent history? NO... so your BS claim that US is always the aggressor is bullshit. US don't fight wars for fun, they fight wars for tangible reasons that will (in theory) benefit their people. And if China had not engage in economic warfare against the US, America would have no reason to be enemies with China. SO back to my point again in US vs China, it was China to fired the first shot.


OH my look at your response here. My oh my. The US intelligence agencies have not managed to do that because they aren't so capable when it's up against china but this response from you shows that you do agree the US intelligence agencies have done damage to numerous countries world wide. Mind you they might not have undermined china in a major way but they are working on things trying to fuck things up. In short this is very despicable and comeon we all know how you think. Suppose it was chinese intelligence agencies that went around doing what the US was doing you would be screaming to the heavens calling china and chinese as the scum of the earth doing all sorts of evil things but when the US does it nope it's perfectly fine. In fact they do things to benefit themselves. Yeah no fucking shit sherlock. They couldn't be doing things to benefit others could they? Likewise when china fights for the spartly islands for example they are also doing it for the good of themselves but in your opinion china cannot do that but you know perfectly fine for the US to fight wars and bully others in short make life hell for them to benefit themselves but china cannot do that. I am sure we have firmly established how bias you are and that you are the cock sucker.




That's your fucking prerogative, you can believe whatever you like. But given the no. of countries in Asia that align themselves more with the US:Japan, S.Korea, Philippines, Thailand, Singapore(?), it says a lot of who the lesser of two evils is.

States countries aligning themselves as the benchmark. :rolleyes: Many of these countries just sway with the win. Countries like thailand for example aren't interested in going into any war just take ww2 where they were neutral and thus didn't get conquered. Singapore allies itself with everyone in case you didn't notice.



You are a FUCKING RETARD because you still cannot understand that it is BOTH racial composition AND the type of government/society that tells whether or not a country is racist or not. Korean and Japanese have a democratic governments (relatively speaking), and it means that minorities have voice. China is a facist govt, and is ruled by the Chinese majority, and they preach anti-US (or more generally anti-non-Chinese) propaganda to their entire population. So yes, China is made up of a bunch of Chinese racists.

So what if china has a facist govt? That doesn't mean the population is racist. You better accuse with facts and reasoning you slimy piece of shit. You are the racist one here and an asshole.




Why is the EU an ally? Because they are a honorable civilization that respect others. Not because they speaking English you dumb fuck.

Honorable civilization. :biggrin::rolleyes: You think you are in a lord the rings fairytale. The US doesn't give a shit about that the fact of the matter is countries in the EU are culturally similar to the US and on top of that are like the dogs of the US following it into war and so on but they aren't exactly fans of the US and they have differing opinions. Definitely not based on your retarded reasonings.



You keep bringing in your red herring argument when we are talking about US vs China NOT US vs Middle East. And so I will not entertain your irrelevant arguments that has no relevance to US vs China. The only difference between Germany in the first days of WW2 is that they invaded Poland. Right now China is thinking of invading Japan/Philippines (whoever that controls the so called disputed islands). You want to dispute on the technicality that China has not invaded anyone at this time, fine I let you win. I will bet with you that China will take military action to secure those territories some time in the future.

You will let me win. :rolleyes: You are unable to prove me wrong so of course you have nothing further to retort. Except for your thick skin loserish behavior saying you will let me win when your ass got kicked all over the pavement. You're the guy that got beaten soundly all bloody and bruised and then told the winner i wasn't planning on actually fighting that's why i let you win yeah sure thing chump. FYI the US invading the middle east isn't a red herring. The fact of the matter is the US has invaded countries but not china and yes you agreed with me that's why you're soundly beaten here anyway.



US has NEVER taken aggressive postures against China until VERY recently, so your good offense is the best defense is BS excuse, because US was NEVER threat to China to begin with. In fact looking at recent history, when US is so busy bombing cave dwellers in the Middle East, there is no reason that China should worry about US coming after them, as long as they trade fairly with the US (i.e. behave like EU). And btw China's increased military spending developing anti-US technologies IS AN AGGRESSIVE move against the US. America has to counter them with an appropriate response.


OMG ROFL childish idiotic way of looking at things. The US is always on the look out for countries that it deems a threat which can pose to overtake it as the world superpower. Why else would the CIA govt sabotage so many south american govts, invade libya and so on and so forth? All of this is to prevent these countries from ever posing a threat. China made a smart move by arming itself and mind you the US spends like more than 5x than the next 5 countries combined in terms of military technology. Care to explain to me why is the US the only country allowed to spend so much on military weapons but other countries aren't allowed to?



As I said, I don't give a fuck about what Japan did in WW2 that is ancient history. I give a fuck about what Japan/China do today. N.Korea is a China vassal state btw. And if not for US backing, I'm sure Japan and S.Korea would fall under China's influence as well, particularly for Japan because their constitution limits their military capability. And you conveniently forget that China military build up is not for fun. Sooner or latter, China will flex her military muscles and start projecting her power/influence to SE Asia, making the countries in that region vassal states of the China hegemony. FYI, some countries in SE Asia like Thailand, Philippines, even as far as Australia and hopefully Singapore (although the PAP always behaves like a two-timing China+US cocksucker, so who knows how this will turn up) have already chosen to side with US or asked for US intervention. This is very indicative of their fear that if China is left unchecked, they will become vassal states of China. If China is really so much better than US (since US is the evil aggressor who will bully anyone for no rhyme and reason - as you have suggested), why the fuck is almost every country around China asking US for help/intervention? According to your dumb fuck logic, they should all welcome China's rise right, and use the opportunity to give a big middle finger to America right? The only problem is THAT'S NOT HAPPENING, and that says something about your dumb fuck arguments.


You don't give a fuck? Who are you? The fact of the matter is japan was extremely aggressive and caused untold suffering on neighbouring countries. That is very good reason that it should not allow itself to be armed. So far have you seen a chinese warship or any hint of military aggression? How is the taiwan situation with china? Mind you china has not even bothered to invade taiwan so why the fuck would other countries care? Japan and S korea are vassal states of the US but that's fine to you correct? One country is allowed to build up its arms, make vassal states of other countries, invade other countries, sabotage them for its own benefits but it's still a good country while the other country that has not done any of that is somehow a bad country. You're a dog of the US and you believe that you're god you don't give a fuck what japan did.


You're the idiot that is clearly trying to change black to white when it's so plain obvious for everyone else to see.
 

AndroAsc

Alfrescian
Loyal
So it's better being a US cock sucker? I state the facts correctly you lie and BS your way thru as can be plainly seen here.

What facts? All your "facts" are tangential to the discussion of US vs China.

OH my look at your response here. My oh my. The US intelligence agencies have not managed to do that because they aren't so capable when it's up against china but this response from you shows that you do agree the US intelligence agencies have done damage to numerous countries world wide. Mind you they might not have undermined china in a major way but they are working on things trying to fuck things up. In short this is very despicable and comeon we all know how you think. Suppose it was chinese intelligence agencies that went around doing what the US was doing you would be screaming to the heavens calling china and chinese as the scum of the earth doing all sorts of evil things but when the US does it nope it's perfectly fine. In fact they do things to benefit themselves. Yeah no fucking shit sherlock. They couldn't be doing things to benefit others could they? Likewise when china fights for the spartly islands for example they are also doing it for the good of themselves but in your opinion china cannot do that but you know perfectly fine for the US to fight wars and bully others in short make life hell for them to benefit themselves but china cannot do that. I am sure we have firmly established how bias you are and that you are the cock sucker.

The Chinese intelligence agencies are in fact doing more shit to US than US to China, always hacking the US to steal military technology, sending their spies to US universities to steal technology, etc... As always your facts are bullshit clouded by your Chinese chauvinist pig mentality. Letting China practice their expansionist policy as I have argued will only embolden them to be more aggressive in their stance towards other countries. As I have said from the FUCKING BEGINNING, it is the lesser of two evils. From the actions that nations have taken, it is obvious that they have chosen US to be the lesser of the two evils.

States countries aligning themselves as the benchmark. :rolleyes: Many of these countries just sway with the win. Countries like thailand for example aren't interested in going into any war just take ww2 where they were neutral and thus didn't get conquered. Singapore allies itself with everyone in case you didn't notice.

I'm not interested in your fucking history lesson. You still cannot deny the fact that many Asian countries have publicly declared their support for US over China. So much for the big bad evil US...

So what if china has a facist govt? That doesn't mean the population is racist. You better accuse with facts and reasoning you slimy piece of shit. You are the racist one here and an asshole.

Conveniently leaving out the fact that the Chinese population is brainwashed from young to be anti-US, anti-Korea, anti-Japan and generally anti-anything-that-is-not-Chinese. If that is not racist, WHAT THE FUCK IS!?!?!

Honorable civilization. :biggrin::rolleyes: You think you are in a lord the rings fairytale. The US doesn't give a shit about that the fact of the matter is countries in the EU are culturally similar to the US and on top of that are like the dogs of the US following it into war and so on but they aren't exactly fans of the US and they have differing opinions. Definitely not based on your retarded reasonings.

Whatever... and more anti-US/EU racist remarks from you?

You will let me win. :rolleyes: You are unable to prove me wrong so of course you have nothing further to retort. Except for your thick skin loserish behavior saying you will let me win when your ass got kicked all over the pavement. You're the guy that got beaten soundly all bloody and bruised and then told the winner i wasn't planning on actually fighting that's why i let you win yeah sure thing chump. FYI the US invading the middle east isn't a red herring. The fact of the matter is the US has invaded countries but not china and yes you agreed with me that's why you're soundly beaten here anyway.

You are arguing on a fucking technicality and there is no point in arguing because you are arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm not a dumb fuck like you. FYI, just before Germany invaded Poland in WW2, they were "talking" about annexing territory, just as how China is "talking" about annexing the disputed islands. Only a retard like you cannot connect the dots and see cause-and-effect. And as always we have been talking about US vs China, your points of how bad/evil the US is towards the Middle East has nothing to do with the topic at hand. So go celebrate your "victory", NOBODY GIVES A FUCK CAUSE IT IS NOT RELEVANT.

OMG ROFL childish idiotic way of looking at things. The US is always on the look out for countries that it deems a threat which can pose to overtake it as the world superpower. Why else would the CIA govt sabotage so many south american govts, invade libya and so on and so forth? All of this is to prevent these countries from ever posing a threat. China made a smart move by arming itself and mind you the US spends like more than 5x than the next 5 countries combined in terms of military technology. Care to explain to me why is the US the only country allowed to spend so much on military weapons but other countries aren't allowed to?

Woah, so suddenly latin america and middle east are "threats" because they can overtake the US as a superpower? Did you knock your head against the wall or what??? And what fuck nonsense is this about US is the only country "allowed" to spend so much on military weapons? Other countries can always spend more... nobody is stopping them. My contention is that China has ramped up spending on ANTI-US military tech, in fact all their military tech is targeted to be anti-US. On the other hand US with so much military spending, has not developed any substantial anti-China tech. So who is the fucking aggressor here? Fuck off and stop bullshitting.

You don't give a fuck? Who are you? The fact of the matter is japan was extremely aggressive and caused untold suffering on neighbouring countries. That is very good reason that it should not allow itself to be armed. So far have you seen a chinese warship or any hint of military aggression? How is the taiwan situation with china? Mind you china has not even bothered to invade taiwan so why the fuck would other countries care? Japan and S korea are vassal states of the US but that's fine to you correct? One country is allowed to build up its arms, make vassal states of other countries, invade other countries, sabotage them for its own benefits but it's still a good country while the other country that has not done any of that is somehow a bad country. You're a dog of the US and you believe that you're god you don't give a fuck what japan did.

I'm obviously not a Chinese chauvinist pig who is anti-US, anti-Japan and anti-everything-that-is-not-Chinese. China has not invaded Taiwan because they fear US intervention, and because they do not have the military capacity to take Taiwan without severe collateral damage (which defeats the purpose of invading in the first place). However, that situation is changing, and once they develop sufficient military tech and can confidently deny US military supremacy in the region, and have decoupled their economy from US's economy, THEY WILL ATTACK TAIWAN. Japan and S.Korea are not vassal states of the US, they are ALLIES. They want US to help them, that is the fucking difference. Nobody wants "help" from fucking China or racist pigs like you for that matter.
 
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Sideswipe

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Yes, your assumption is useless. You are contradicting yourself. In another post, you said the Japanese had concluded in 1937 that it was now or never to start a war against China.

Now, please tell us why you think that the CCP was indirectly responsible for 9/18. Please don't not say that it was because of the CCP sabotage operations against Japanese business interests in Manchuria - weakening the moderates in Japan who were not anti-China. We all know that the far right had controlled Japanese politics since the Meiji Era and that they had planned to take China. Also, since the signing of the Unfair Treaty which seceded may Chinese territories to Japan, there had been Chinese operations against Japanese in China (whether by the CCP or others) because most of the Chinese people were against the Japanese occupying their territories. Even if the CCP was the main saboteur, it was just carrying out the will of the people.

Going by your logic, Hitler's parents were indirectly responsible for World War 2 because according to you, one thing leads to another.


Yu Zuoyu, Yu Zuobo, Li Mingrui and Zhang Mutao ( CCP moles ) instigated Li Zongren and Feng Yuixiang to start the Central Plains War in 1930. Manchuria Warlord Zhang Xueliang deployed 40% of his best troops to Central China to assist the National Government in quelling the rebellion. after the war, the troops remained in Central China, and the Nationalist government were bankrupted. the direct consequence of the Central Plains War would be the 9/18 Manchurian incident. the Japanese took advantages of the weakened defense in Manchuria and the financial woes of China to invade Manchuria proper.

my linking of the CCP to be indirectly responsible for 9/18 was logical. your logic of Hitler's parents were indirectly responsible for World War 2 was ridiculous.



Since you agree that the anti-China faction was the dominant faction and Japan had been planning to invade China for a long time, Japan would invade China with or without Lugouqiao 7/7 incident. And you also said that the Japanese had concluded in 1937 that it was now or never. So if it wasn't 7/7, it would be close to that date.

when 7/7 happened, the Japanese weighed the situation and concluded that they should invade now. it was now or never. the Japanese preferred to use the 9/18 and 7/7 incidents as reasons to answer to her people and the international community to justify the invasion of China. that was the way things were. i don’t know why. if 7/7 never happened. would Japan invade China proper ? i repeated several times. things will develop, change or happen depending on circumstances. nothing is definite in international affairs. the cause of the China-Japan war should be considered against an all-inclusive background. i don’t see anything wrong with this two logic.



You said the CCP "did not plan for that much" and they intended 7/7 to be a local war to embroil the KMT in fighting with the Japs. Meaning they didn't think it would escalate to the full blown war. That's quite a big risk to take. Also, if the KMT General had acceded to the Japs request to let some Jap troops to search the missing soldier, the "local" war might have been averted and the CCP ploy would come to naught.

the Beiping mayor was right not to allow the Japanese troops to enter the city. they eventually agreed to form a joint investigation group in the city. while the investigating body was being orgainised, both sides continued to fire at each other. there were many events complicating the situation. it was regrettable that a simple local incident would escalate into a deathmatch between China and Japan.

at the onset, it was never meant to be a full scale war. it was regrettable that both sides couldn’t make peace with each other. the war escalated to rest of China and the rest was history... from the Japanese archives, it was said that the Japanese Army promised the Emperor that they would force the Chinese to surrender in three months. it meant that the Chinese would negotiate peace on Japan’s terms. China leader Chiang Kai Shek hoped that the League of Nations would intervene and solve the conflict. the League of Nations didn’t do it. both sides continued the war but strangely never made an official declaration of war on the other side. Chiang didn’t officially declare war on Japan until 1940-1941 or Pearl Harbor ?



As stated earlier, I am also of the view that the KMT fought the Japanese more. Taiwan Ma Ying Jiu recently asked China to recognize the truth that it was the KMT who fought the Japs. But we have to understand that the KMT and CCP were also at war with each other at that time, and that the KMT was in power and had the upper hand. If the CCP attacked the Japs, they would be exposing themselves to the KMT. Also, according to Sun Tzu Art of War, if your army is slightly less powerful than your enemy, you wait and watch but do not attack (your "living side by side in peace with the Japanese").

But it is a fact that the CCP did fight the Japanese. And they could only openly do that after forcing the KMT into a truce via the Xian incident.

it was China’s fortune that Chiang Kai Shek, Li Zongren, Yang Sen and the rest of Nationalist Warlords did not think the same way like the CCP. otherwise there would be more Wang Jingwei who would defect to the Japanese. or the Japanese would really conquer whole of China. nobody really fought. everyone conserves strength. everyone wayang. if that happened, it would be impossible for China to resist the Japanese invaders for 8 long years.

the Chinese Warlords Armies or Provincial Armies put aside past hostility with the National Government and vigorously fought the Japanese troops. they had limited troops and military equipments. the Warlords like the CCP were also scared of being annihilated by the KMT. nevertheless they actively resisted the Japanese military advances. but there were also some warlords who wayang the war like the Chinese Communist. but apparently, none of the warlords fought the National Government troops for territories like what the CCP did.

the CCP evaded the Japanese troops for close to 8 years and rarely fought a decent war.

there were plenty of stories about the CCP wayang war from Chinese, American and Soviet sources. the CCP wayang stories were tragically funny. i don't know whether to laugh or cry.
 

Sideswipe

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You are wise to doubt the report in the Chinese newspaper that Mao went to Beijing to meet the Japanese general - because the newspaper was probably a KMT propaganda. It is not impossible that there were some communication between the CCP and Japanese and even talk on corporation against the KMT. But it could all be a ploy: the CCP trying to get more information about the Japanese and KMT. Surely, the CCP knew that enmity the Chinese people had for the Japanese with the unfair treaty still fresh in the minds. The CCP would also know that they would have an even tougher time getting rid of the Japanese troops after the defeat of KMT. It's not necessary to read too much into these communication between the CCP and Japanese. While it is not inconceivable that out of desperation for its own survival, the CCP could really reach out to the Japanese, we need at least some circumstantial evidence before making such speculation.

if you want to put it this way, i can’t rebuke you.

i doubt the 1941 meeting because i believe that Mao Zedong had no balls to meet Yasuji Okamura. it was too risky.

the CCP officially admitted to the 1943 meetup. they pushed all blames to Pan Hannian. i don’t know if the CCP officially admitted to the 1945 meetup or not ? it is worse for the CCP to admit to the meetup and use the reason of getting information. because few people will believe it. it is better to deny everything.



Also, before one accuses the CCP of being a traitor, let's remember that KMT Chiang Kai Shek had considered the CCP a greater threat than the Japanese (which he repeatedly made concessions to before the war). It is sad but true that if the KMT and CCP had united to fight the Japanese earlier, the Japanese probably wouldn't have been able to commit all those atrocities against the Chinese people. The blame for this should be shared between the KMT and CCP. I think a less power-hungry KMT leader like Sun Yat Sen might've made peace with the CCP to fight the Japanese.


Soviet diplomat Peter Vladimirov said that the Communist never fought the Japanese. some people will say that it was Russian lies. General Wedemyer said that the Communist never made much of an active resistance against the Japanese. the same people will say that it was American lies. Yasuji Okamura said that Japan killed few Communist troops. it was Japanese lies. Chungking said that the Communist never fought the Japanese but attacked National Government troops. as usual, it was Kuomintang lies. Zhang Guotao and Wang Ming said that CCP wayang the war all the way. as expected. it was the CCP traitors lies.

everyone somewhat ganged up to slander the heroic war efforts of the Communist Party of China. only the words of leader Mao Zedong were the absolute truth.

:rolleyes:



Now, your point about "the CCP operations against Japanese interests and killing of Japanese mainly in Manchuria sowing the seeds of the war by weakening the moderates in Japan" is just an inconsequential "IF". First, since the Unequal Treaty which seceded many Chinese territories to Japan, there had been operations against Japanese interests in China (whether by CCP or others) because many Chinese were against the Japanese occupation of their territories. Even if the CCP was the main saboteur of Japanese interests, it was just carrying out the will of the Chinese people - while the KMT at there time was making a lot of concessions to the Japanese. Second, since the Meiji era, the Japanese far right had taken over Japanese politics and had planned to take over China. Sure, as you said, "Japanese invasion of China was certainly not a definite". Of course, nothing is cast is stone - but the plan was there all along, and the moderates didn't really have a chance.

A rapist preparing to rape a woman could have a side in him telling him that it was wrong to rape. But his bad side prevailed and he proceeded to rape her. And then you come out to tell the world that the rape wouldn't have happened if the rapist had listened to his conscience. Worst, you even suggest that the victim might be "indirectly responsible" because she did some things in the past which "sowed the seeds" of the rape


someone recommended me this book.

红色国际特工
http://www.bookschina.com/1362929.htm
- the story of the Soviet GRU and CCP, espionage operations in China.

Soviet Russian ordered CCP to carry out the sabotage operations. Chiang Kai Shek stance was clear from the onset: "we might appease the Japanese now but it is temporary. we must buy time to get ready for the war. we will only fight when we are ready. when that day comes. we will fight the Japanese to the very end until eventual victory, and we will restore Chinese pride and take back all our stolen lands from the Japanese." but unfortunately, there were some groups and people in China ( not only the Communist ) who wanted China to get into a war with Japan asap for its own sinister interests.

China eventually prevailed in the war against Japan. the war of attrition was the correct strategy. it succeeded because of the extensive preparation work done by Chiang KMT from 1931 to 1937.

the Soviet’s archives were opened for research since the early 90s. some historian authors like Jung Chang and Jay Taylor had dug into the archives to get proof of the Soviet-CCP collusion in China during that period.

person A instigated person B to kill person C. person B was the murderer. person A was the instigator. both A and B were guilty of the murder crime. that is my point. the Japanese were the war aggressor that committed a war crime against the Chinese people. were the CCP ( war provoker ) committing a war crime against the Chinese people too ?
 
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moolightaffairs

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if you want to put it this way, i can’t rebuke you.

if your wife were gang raped by some banglas while your were out screwing some pinoy maid of your neighbour at night and you too excited to close your main door.

can i say that the bangla is innocent and you are at fault. so the police must arrest you and charge you in court rather than prosecute them? according to your logic, police should arrest you for causing the rape than the banglas who raped your wife.
 

SixthColumn

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if your wife were gang raped by some banglas while your were out screwing some pinoy maid of your neighbour at night and you too excited to close your main door.

can i say that the bangla is innocent and you are at fault. so the police must arrest you and charge you in court rather than prosecute them? according to your logic, police should arrest you for causing the rape than the banglas who raped your wife.
wah piang...sibei complicated ah!
 

Sideswipe

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if your wife were gang raped by some banglas while your were out screwing some pinoy maid of your neighbour at night and you too excited to close your main door.

can i say that the bangla is innocent and you are at fault. so the police must arrest you and charge you in court rather than prosecute them? according to your logic, police should arrest you for causing the rape than the banglas who raped your wife.



your logic or example was ridiculous. please don't use ridiculous examples to confuse the issue. you should read properly what i said.
 

moolightaffairs

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So what if the shrine also has the remains of ordinary soldiers? If the Chancellor of Germany were to pay respect to such a shrine (having the remains of Hitler, war criminals and ordinary soldiers), the West would not allow it. More importantly, the descendents of the ordinary dead soldiers would've objected to the remains being buried together with the Class A war criminals.

Why the double standards? One, China is weak. Israel is powerful and like what Mahatir said, the Jews rule the world via proxy (USA). Two, it is because of people like you. The Europeans, even those who didn't suffer directly under the Nazis, know the need to remember the lessons of history and they would protest if Germany does something disrespectful to the victims and the memory of the war. A lot of Asians like you, on the other hand, couldn't care less.

Sure, what the Japanese military did in WW2 has got nothing to with the Japanese people today - and I do n not harbor any animosity against the ordinary Japanese. But the far right is still controlling Japan today, and I would be wary of them - and their PMs visiting the Shrine is actually a big deal. Note that most but not all of their PMs visited the Shrine. Only those from the Far Right. The recent PM from the Left (which briefly grabbed power from the LDP for the first time in history) didn't visit the Shrine. The LDP is Far Right.

bro, i got nothing against drifter. but he is a jap cock sucker. jap didn't do anything like the German do. no need to go to the link, that stupid page not much to read also. only once in a long while and to some countries only. Germany Chancellor apologise every year during anniversary and reassure they won't do it. the fucking emperor is a war criminal, should hang him. so jap will know this war is wrong, because they never hang him. so got people like drifter and the Far Right thinking its nothing wrong as long as they did it for the emperor.
 

ShangTsung

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if your wife were gang raped by some banglas while your were out screwing some pinoy maid of your neighbour at night and you too excited to close your main door.

can i say that the bangla is innocent and you are at fault. so the police must arrest you and charge you in court rather than prosecute them? according to your logic, police should arrest you for causing the rape than the banglas who raped your wife.

That would be fatality!
 

moolightaffairs

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your logic or example was ridiculous. please don't use ridiculous examples to confuse the issue. you should read properly what i said.

nah. mine is straight forward and clear. u shifting the blame to ccp to dilute the wrong doing for fucking jap. u r a fucking jap cock sucker trying to confuse and shift the focus!

anyone who defend the japanese wrong doings. female family members, mother, sisters, wives, girl friends etc deserve to be brutally gang rape and killed. your baby deserve to thrown in air and plunge into the samurai sword waiting below. your whole family deserve to be buried alive. then u come and tell me they are the victims or they are not the worst.

国仇家恨!!!
 
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