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Sinkie Archbishop Nicholas Chia withdraws letter to abolish ISA

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Imo, Ah Chia changed his mind after makan with Ah Hean. The lunch was no ordinary lunch. Ah Chia miscalculated badly. FEAR, his greatest enemy!
 

zeddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The Archbishop Nicholas Chia received a '' Sermon on the Mount '' by some top people from the MHA, thats why his balls suddenly shrank..
 

loneshark

Alfrescian
Loyal
Simplied into ABCDE.

The ABC of writing and retracting a letter: Uniquely Singapore?
Published by The Online Citizen on September 21, 2012

By Leong Sze Hian -

A wrote a letter to B, expressing support for an event that B was organising.

A retracts his letter to B, at a private meeting with B.

C heard about it and blogged about it, saying that A retracted his letter after being invited to lunch by D.

D says D and A meets regularly.

So, does it mean that D did invite A for lunch?

If so, what transpired during lunch?

Neither D or A have stated categorically whether they had lunch or not.

So, what does meeting regularly mean?

About every month, quarterly, semi-annually, yearly, etc.

When was the last time that D invited A for lunch, prior to the latest alleged lunch that is being much talked about now?

A says B leaked the information to C.

But B said since the letter was copied to E, it may have been leaked by A or E's people too.

B also said A's letter was not marked “Private and Confidential”.

B calls on A to make his letter and retraction letter public.

A says that C's blogging, confirms the correctness of A's earlier decision to withdraw the letter – that B may use A's letter in a manner that A did not intend.

B asks what was A's initial letter intended for and what are the unintended manners in which it could possibly be used to 'harm the social harmony in Singapore'?

B also asks A to confirm whether his first letter was solicited or unsolicited?

Hopefully, we may get to XYZ in the days to come!

Uniquely Singapore!
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Not many people are aware that the only religious order that has a long standing history of facing up to this Government is the Catholic Church. This goes back to the early 70s and there have been 4 distinct episodes. The first two involved the deporting of Vincent Cheng mentor of that time. The second involved a nun working in Bukit Ho Swee with the community and she was finally forced back to Carmelite hostel. The 3rd involved the Church property in Punggol where certain individuals gathered including Francis Khoo the late husband of Dr Ang Swee Chai. The 4th is the well known operation spectrum (Marxist conspiracy)

No other religious order has the balls to push this government. Catholics by nature are more lilkely to call out injustice when they see it.

The Catholic Church has always been on a short list where this govt is concerned. The Archbishop has to be careful that not to push the envelope. What Alex did was not right and he probably did not tie all this events together.

By the way, Hougang is where the heaviest concentration of Catholics are. The Teochew Catholics are unbelievably tight knit

I guess you are not seeing it. If u want real reform in singapore, you cannot get it at the ballot box. The PAP does not care if it wins only 10% of the votes at the next GE, it will not relinquish power in singapore. Kuan Yew has already insinuated this, and u can expect martial law if it happens. There is a reason why the police force and the SAF are all filled with PAP cronies at the upper echelon. Contrast this to the US military where generals are bi-partisan and will abide by whatever the political party of the day says. U can expect the SAF to be called out to prop the PAP and keep it in power. If you look at Syria, that's what you will get.

The only real way to effect change in singapore is to have mass people take to the streets and demand this. This happened in the Phillipines, in Thailand, in South Korea, etc. For this to happen, some group has to organize it. The technology nowadays makes this easy. But whcih group? The fragmented oppo parties with a few thousand members each, or the Roman Catholic church with a well organized communication struture, infrastructure and membership totally 300,000?

AT this point, you have to call Nicholas Chia a coward in the same order of his predecessor the late Gregory Yong. So what if he stands up against the PAP and injustice? SO what if he writes that letter and many more? Will the ISD arrest him? Do you think 300,000 catholics will stand by and do nothing? Do you think other christian faiths will stand by and do nothing, they know that today its the catholics, tomorrow it could be them. If every priest in every parish calls on the catholics to support Nicholas Chia and his letter, will the PAP arrest 300,000 people? Many high ranking PAP ministers are catholics themselves. Will they all be kicked out of cabinet because their loyalty is now in question? Will Gay Loong ban the catholic religion like the JWs?

The answer to all of this is NO. Kuan Yew and the PAP are bullies. Like all bullies when you stand up to them, they are found to be the cowards that they truly are. Nicholas Chia does not understand this. He is answerable to the Pope in Rome, not to Kuan Yew or the PAP. The ISA is an unconscionable piece of legislature, no one in the church will support it, and in fact no decent humans should live under this law. Nicholas Chia does not understand the power he has under his command. He does not understand the deep resentment of the older catholics who had to go thru Operation Spectrum and see ISD agents interupt their mass on SUnday and stand in front of the altar to intimidate the priests. I know some of the people in Spectrum myself, and I can tell u the last thing some of them are is Marxist. Nicholas Chia does not understand the enormous good will the catholic church has engendered even among non catholics through many of its charity works, and catholic schools. Many graduates of convents and of the brother schools remember the kindness and dedication shown to them by catholic sisters and brothers who taught them. If Nicholas Chia showed some backbone and leadership and use what he has at his disposal with intelligence and foresight, it will scare the PAP into some real change. Real change like the abolishment of the ISA is not only good for catholics, its good for all of singapore. Even the 60% that allegedly voted for the PAP.

Here, you have a ready made organization for real change in singapore, and a willingness among the rank and file for change. And on the other hand, you have a spineless coward of a leader.
 
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Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
By playing dirty games with Nicholas, the opposition is alienating Christians, especially Catholics.
Their agenda is clear n the gloves are off.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
What I am saying is that this is will be a recurring theme that will continue to flare up where the Catholics and their Church is concerned. It has happened for the last 50 years and will continue to do so.

The complication is that the Vatican considers itself as a sovereign state and wants to be recognised by Singapore. They have an ambassador for the region who was based in Bangkok and since 2011 is now based here. The proper term is apostolic nuncio.

The Archbishop followed his heart and did what he did at first. No the room was not bugged as Alex thinks but Teo Chee Hean's secret squirrel emerged either in Function 8 or Maurah or even the Catholic Church and I suspect in all 3. ISD moved and the Archbishop was summoned to chia samosa. They would only do that after consulting the apostolic nuncio. He was told that he was going to be defrocked and did the tango backwards real fast. Archbishop Yong was in the same boat when they summoned the apostolic nuncio from Bangkok.

As far as the Vatican is concerned their sovereignty is more important than a few Singaporeans with bleeding hearts.

Teo Chee Hean in his customary fashion fucked it up as usual by asking MHA to come out with the "disrepectful" crap.

Alex Au's fault is that he is taking on the Church rather than Teo Chee Hean. Same with Teo Soh Lung. The latter is still the blurfuck and does not know what is going on.



I think you are making a point here, albeit obliquely.

Are you saying that the Church and the govt has reached a kind of unwritten understanding not to step in each other's way - or rather- the Church has agreed not to take on the govt since the last fracas, and that any "cho-chok" from a third party like Alex is an unnecessary provocation that would earn the wrath of this govt who will firstly warn him not to be disrespectful to what the Archbishop had done to come to terms with the govt?
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
It will not come to this. The master of brinkmanship is the old man. People will continue to be fed and housed. He knows what is the tipping point. That change will come as it did in Aljunied - creeping and at snail pace.

Nicholas Chia and the Catholics will take it out in the Ballot box as they know they can't take on the Govt any other way. Why you think that Hougang is with the WP.

I am sure Nicholas Chis knows that he folded and is embarrassed by it. He has no choice unless he wants to be Mr Nicholas Chia the next day.

Did you ever wonder why no other religious order takes on the Govt? Because the rest of them unlike the Catholic Church has no reporting lines outside the country. Even the Mufti cannot refer to Saudi Arabia. No need for invitation to chia samosa. It is straight lim kopi or removed from post.



The only real way to effect change in singapore is to have mass people take to the streets and demand this. This happened in the Phillipines, in Thailand, in South Korea, etc. For this to happen, some group has to organize it. The technology nowadays makes this easy. But whcih group? The fragmented oppo parties with a few thousand members each, or the Roman Catholic church with a well organized communication struture, infrastructure and membership totally 300,000?

Here, you have a ready made organization for real change in singapore, and a willingness among the rank and file for change. And on the other hand, you have a spineless coward of a leader.
 
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Troll

Alfrescian
Loyal
The case for ISA stands and falls on its own merits and demerits. I always think the ISA is archaic and to widespread that the opportunity for misuse far outweigh the benefits of having it around.

What's more it is more appropriate to have specific laws to deal with very specific categories of risks, be it terrorists, criminals, religious zealots who piss of others and racists.

This remains to be one sacred cow which is probably not going to be slaughtered in our generation.
 

Troll

Alfrescian
Loyal
I guess you are not seeing it. If u want real reform in singapore, you cannot get it at the ballot box. The PAP does not care if it wins only 10% of the votes at the next GE, it will not relinquish power in singapore. Kuan Yew has already insinuated this, and u can expect martial law if it happens. There is a reason why the police force and the SAF are all filled with PAP cronies at the upper echelon. Contrast this to the US military where generals are bi-partisan and will abide by whatever the political party of the day says. U can expect the SAF to be called out to prop the PAP and keep it in power. If you look at Syria, that's what you will get.

The only real way to effect change in singapore is to have mass people take to the streets and demand this. This happened in the Phillipines, in Thailand, in South Korea, etc. For this to happen, some group has to organize it. The technology nowadays makes this easy. But whcih group? The fragmented oppo parties with a few thousand members each, or the Roman Catholic church with a well organized communication struture, infrastructure and membership totally 300,000?

AT this point, you have to call Nicholas Chia a coward in the same order of his predecessor the late Gregory Yong. So what if he stands up against the PAP and injustice? SO what if he writes that letter and many more? Will the ISD arrest him? Do you think 300,000 catholics will stand by and do nothing? Do you think other christian faiths will stand by and do nothing, they know that today its the catholics, tomorrow it could be them. If every priest in every parish calls on the catholics to support Nicholas Chia and his letter, will the PAP arrest 300,000 people? Many high ranking PAP ministers are catholics themselves. Will they all be kicked out of cabinet because their loyalty is now in question? Will Gay Loong ban the catholic religion like the JWs?

The answer to all of this is NO. Kuan Yew and the PAP are bullies. Like all bullies when you stand up to them, they are found to be the cowards that they truly are. Nicholas Chia does not understand this. He is answerable to the Pope in Rome, not to Kuan Yew or the PAP. The ISA is an unconscionable piece of legislature, no one in the church will support it, and in fact no decent humans should live under this law. Nicholas Chia does not understand the power he has under his command. He does not understand the deep resentment of the older catholics who had to go thru Operation Spectrum and see ISD agents interupt their mass on SUnday and stand in front of the altar to intimidate the priests. I know some of the people in Spectrum myself, and I can tell u the last thing some of them are is Marxist. Nicholas Chia does not understand the enormous good will the catholic church has engendered even among non catholics through many of its charity works, and catholic schools. Many graduates of convents and of the brother schools remember the kindness and dedication shown to them by catholic sisters and brothers who taught them. If Nicholas Chia showed some backbone and leadership and use what he has at his disposal with intelligence and foresight, it will scare the PAP into some real change. Real change like the abolishment of the ISA is not only good for catholics, its good for all of singapore. Even the 60% that allegedly voted for the PAP.

Here, you have a ready made organization for real change in singapore, and a willingness among the rank and file for change. And on the other hand, you have a spineless coward of a leader.

Truth of the matter: even if the archbishop supports abolishment of ISA so what? He don't rule the land. Like I said in another post, the case for ISA stands and falls on its on merits. Having some celebrity or religious figure endorse the abolishment will not make the case any better and might even make it worse.

That's because ISA infringe in many interest groups who may or may not be aware of the law's widespread implications, having just one particular group supporting its abolishment, say the Catholics just isnt going to cut it. What if the Muslim and Buddhist don't see it the same way?

This is a change which should be brought about by proper means, through the polls. Just some interest parties lobbying for change isn't going to get us anywhere.
 

enterprise2

Alfrescian
Loyal
Truth of the matter: even if the archbishop supports abolishment of ISA so what? He don't rule the land. Like I said in another post, the case for ISA stands and falls on its on merits. Having some celebrity or religious figure endorse the abolishment will not make the case any better and might even make it worse.

That's because ISA infringe in many interest groups who may or may not be aware of the law's widespread implications, having just one particular group supporting its abolishment, say the Catholics just isnt going to cut it. What if the Muslim and Buddhist don't see it the same way?

This is a change which should be brought about by proper means, through the polls. Just some interest parties lobbying for change isn't going to get us anywhere.
The way I read the situation is that this garment is a bully. However it is a bully within limits. It is not like some dictator that some in the forum has made it to be.eg Hitler or Stalin type.Rather it is behaving like some corporate type bully u find in some MNCs. U know the type. Strong willed CEO who has the board in his pocket and ruled with a iron fist with loyal cadres. Perfect legitimate. It will operate within the ambits of the law and it will use it's mechanism like Legal to bully lesser opponents into submission. But being 'legit', it also wants to 'loved' and 'accepted'. Thats why it puts strong emphasis on ranking and feedback scores. Same as the strong leader MNC types I mentioned. So how do u get rid of a strong CEO who has the board behind him and he has a group of managers and staff who r supporters and who knows where their bread r buttered??
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
I have always been curious why certain people like to use this statement. Could you explain what it means. Not the ISA part but the "stand and falls on its own merit" bit.

I remember a coach when his team lost like to use the term " the ball is round" when people asked him why his team lost.

These are terms that are used by people who have no clue what is going on.

Like I said in another post, the case for ISA stands and falls on its on merits.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
The new Ferrai will stand or fall on its own merits.

The decision to launch the new space shuttle will stand or fall on its own merits.

The case for a surgery stands or falls on its own merits.

The call to cull the elephants will stand or fall on its own merits.

I am referring to the use of the phrase "stand or fall on its own merits" which is usually popular with people who have little idea what is going on. Unable to form a view or an opinion. The chap used the same phrase twice in two posts. It sounds sophisticated and therefore also popular with people want to look sophisticated.







So u r saying there is no basis at all for ISA to exists in today Singapore?
 

Cruxx

Alfrescian
Loyal
The new Ferrai will stand or fall on its own merits.

The decision to launch the new space shuttle will stand or fall on its own merits.

The case for a surgery stands or falls on its own merits.

The call to cull the elephants will stand or fall on its own merits.

I am referring to the use of the phrase "stand or fall on its own merits" which is usually popular with people who have little idea what is going on. Unable to form a view or an opinion. The chap used the same phrase twice in two posts. It sounds sophisticated and therefore also popular with people want to look sophisticated.

Surely a man as wise as you can understand what a simple phrase as "stand or fall on its own merits" means? It means you can't polish a turd, even if you get the Pope himself to do the polishing. As for "ball is round", well, the coach is but one of many factors influencing the outcome of a game. He can't control the weather. He can't get onto the field to kick the ball. The "ball is round" can be a valid justification sometimes.
 

Ash007

Alfrescian
Loyal
Note also that "stand or fall on its own merits" is a uniquely Singapore phrase. Along with meritocracy and carparks. I only realised this after a discussion with a retired English on what is "Singalish" the other day.

I am referring to the use of the phrase "stand or fall on its own merits" which is usually popular with people who have little idea what is going on. Unable to form a view or an opinion. The chap used the same phrase twice in two posts. It sounds sophisticated and therefore also popular with people want to look sophisticated.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Surely a man as wise as you can understand what a simple phrase as "stand or fall on its own merits" means? It means you can't polish a turd, even if you get the Pope himself to do the polishing. As for "ball is round", well, the coach is but one of many factors influencing the outcome of a game. He can't control the weather. He can't get onto the field to kick the ball. The "ball is round" can be a valid justification sometimes.

In other words, it an Act of God, but in this case, it is an act of god(s)!:biggrin:
 

enterprise2

Alfrescian
Loyal
My 5 cents worth. Just to steer the discussion back. ISA is probably needed still just as Guatemala Bay is required for countering terrorist activities. But no one is concerned about Guatemala Bay being used against political opponents to US govt. The same cannot be said about ISA in Singapore.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
What abput the nutjobs in JI?


My 5 cents worth. Just to steer the discussion back. ISA is probably needed still just as Guatemala Bay is required for countering terrorist activities. But no one is concerned about Guatemala Bay being used against political opponents to US govt. The same cannot be said about ISA in Singapore.
 
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