Early Mosques face Petra, not Mecca

[JohnTan]

Your concept as Quran is written.

Our concept of Quran is literal. The written Quran validates what is passed down orally through generations as in the past most people are illiterate and recite it from memory, till today.

Your oral concept of the quran came from the literal quran.

Before the quran was compiled, no single person memorized the entire 'revelation' of muhammad, which was 'revealed' over a period of twenty years and recorded on separate parchments/scrolls. Each memorizer would only have bits and pieces of muhammad's revelation. To memorize the entire quran, the hafiz, or memorizer, would have to refer to the written quran after all the different manuscripts were put together. And that's before having to argue which arabic dialect is the real version of the quran, since there were supposedly around 7 dialects of the quran circulating even during the time of muhammad.

 

[Loofydralb]

Your oral concept of the quran came from the literal quran.

Before the quran was compiled, no single person memorized the entire 'revelation' of muhammad, which was 'revealed' over a period of twenty years and recorded on separate parchments/scrolls. Each memorizer would only have bits and pieces of muhammad's revelation. To memorize the entire quran, the hafiz, or memorizer, would have to refer to the written quran after all the different manuscripts were put together. And that's before having to argue which arabic dialect is the real version of the quran, since there were supposedly around 7 dialects of the quran circulating even during the time of muhammad.

You do not know ancient Arab culture.
They recite stories, songs in entertainment hours and hours long. Some as long as a whole night! They do not have the luxury of books. They transfer those orally. It is no surprise many memorized the whole Quran, the first person being the prophet Muhammad.

 

[JohnTan]

You do not know ancient Arab culture.
They recite stories, songs in entertainment hours and hours long. Some as long as a whole night! They do not have the luxury of books. They transfer those orally. It is no surprise many memorized the whole Quran, the first person being the prophet Muhammad.

It turns out that I know ancient arab culture better than you do.

You didn't even know that your quran was revealed in 7 different dialects or that your quran was 'revealed' over a period 23 years. You talk in a misleading way such that people who read your post would think the entire quran was revealed at one go. And we haven't gone into the part where parts of your quran manuscripts got eaten by goat and lost to posterity. It's mentioned in your own scriptures.

 

[duluxe]

Your oral concept of the quran came from the literal quran.

Before the quran was compiled, no single person memorized the entire 'revelation' of muhammad, which was 'revealed' over a period of twenty years and recorded on separate parchments/scrolls. Each memorizer would only have bits and pieces of muhammad's revelation. To memorize the entire quran, the hafiz, or memorizer, would have to refer to the written quran after all the different manuscripts were put together. And that's before having to argue which arabic dialect is the real version of the quran, since there were supposedly around 7 dialects of the quran circulating even during the time of muhammad.

halizs are bullshit, to memorize some parts of the koran I would agree is doable. The full koran from 1st page to last page, I don't think is possible. And no supporting evidence given.

 

[duluxe]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_studies#:~:text=There are three primary ways,of transmission" of the hadith.

The 3 key ways that muslim scholars determine the authenticity of hadiths are not very scientific.

To determine whether there are "other identical reports from other transmitters" ----Haha, when is lie is repeated by 10 transmitters, it becomes a truth.

@JohnTan is our forum expert on hadiths, he would agree with my statement.

 

[JohnTan]

@JohnTan is our forum expert on hadiths, he would agree with my statement.

If a lie is repeated 3 times, it is taken as the truth. Napoleon and the nazi goebbels said something similar.

 

[syed putra]

he feels that ibrahim is a better role model in the arabian fairytale? could be?

The muslim holy books says to emulate abraham.not me. Abraham was never a pagan worshipper.

 

[syed putra]

Hadiths only compiled about 200 years after the time to caliph uthman, compiler of the first quran. No physical copies of the first quran exists today.

You got the birmingham quranic manuscript

The Birmingham Quran manuscript is a single sheet of parchment on which two leaves of an early Quranic manuscript or muṣḥaf have been written. In 2015, the manuscript, which is held by the University of Birmingham, was radiocarbon dated to between 568 and 645 CE.

 

[JohnTan]

You got the birmingham quranic manuscript

That 'manucript' is 1 sheet, double sided long. I wouldn't call the 'Birmingham Quran' a quran.

 

[duluxe]

If a lie is repeated 3 times, it is taken as the truth. Napoleon and the nazi goebbels said something similar.

I was a science student, the other two ways are far from scientific methods.

Method 2: determining the reliability of the transmitters of the report [ A cock sucker praising the prophet to the sky would be consider a reliable transmitter]

Method 3: the continuity of the chain of transmission [A folk fairytale should be able to pass the test easily. Bomoh also has continuity in the chain of transmission, ask rajah bomoh who transmitted the majic to him and for how many generation.]

 

[Loofydralb]

The 3 key ways that muslim scholars determine the authenticity of hadiths are not very scientific.

To determine whether there are "other identical reports from other transmitters" ----Haha, when is lie is repeated by 10 transmitters, it becomes a truth.

@JohnTan is our forum expert on hadiths, he would agree with my statement.

But the 10 liars need to have their biographies intersect with the prophets and they will have other records of lying. Chain of narrations also will have to be inspected with timelines and locations.

 

[Loofydralb]

It turns out that I know ancient arab culture better than you do.

You didn't even know that your quran was revealed in 7 different dialects or that your quran was 'revealed' over a period 23 years. You talk in a misleading way such that people who read your post would think the entire quran was revealed at one go. And we haven't gone into the part where parts of your quran manuscripts got eaten by goat and lost to posterity. It's mentioned in your own scriptures.

Don't pretend to know much pleasde when you don't even know there are hundreds of mistakes and contradictions and man made changes in your bible.
Still till today you have not answered my questions:
Did your god ever had diarrhea and what is the age to marry before its not considered pedophilia?

 

[duluxe]

But the 10 liars need to have their biographies intersect with the prophets and they will have other records of lying. Chain of narrations also will have to be inspected with timelines and locations.

To find out other records of lying and chain of narrations in timelines, even in modern days has to undergo many sessions of COURT proceedings to bring in witnesses. In ancient time, the method is bullshit again. Who were the witnesses to the lies? Do they record the lies? Who inspected the location? This method is bullhshit The modern court proceeding is very thorough and is not even called a scientific process.

I have debunked the hadiths authencity together with the expertises from @JohnTan and @syed putra

 

[Likemeat]

Don't pretend to know much pleasde when you don't even know there are hundreds of mistakes and contradictions and man made changes in your bible.
Still till today you have not answered my questions:
Did your god ever had diarrhea and what is the age to marry before its not considered pedophilia?

Ask John when Jesus pbuh was a baby who fed and took care of him?

 

[Likemeat]

I have debunked the hadiths authencity together with the expertises from @JohnTan and @syed putra

But you keep insisting Islam is a violent religion and kip quoting several verses from the hadiths. That means the hadiths are authentic? Can u make up your mind?

 

[Loofydralb]

To find out other records of lying and chain of narrations in timelines, even in modern days has to undergo many sessions of COURT proceedings to bring in witnesses. In ancient time, the method is bullshit again. Who were the witnesses to the lies? Do they record the lies? Who inspected the location? This method is bullhshit The modern court proceeding is very thorough and is not even called a scientific process.

I have debunked the hadiths authencity together with the expertises from @JohnTan and @syed putra

Those liars of hadiths would have given up praying five times a day and many more, stopped fasting, stopped giving zakat, stopped and started eating pork after 2 weeks! Hahaha.
They'd be found out as lying!

And If they were lies, there would be contradictions. Those would be thrown out.

Try harder. Christians don't have anything anywhere near this system of memorizing, recording transmitting and educating like the Muslims do. We keep detailed records.

 

[Loofydralb]

Ask John when Jesus pbuh was a baby who fed and took care of him?

You mean God sucked on two neh nehs?

Hahaha

 

[JohnTan]

Don't pretend to know much pleasde when you don't even know there are hundreds of mistakes and contradictions and man made changes in your bible.

You didn't even know that your quran was standardized barely 100 years ago because there were too many different qurans around. Still want to deflect and hide by accusing others?

Still till today you have not answered my questions:
Did your god ever had diarrhea and what is the age to marry before its not considered pedophilia?

Answered your questions long ago, but you ignore when you don't like it. Jesus, when He was on earth, was 100% man and 100% God.

Your 53 year old fake prophet married a 6 year old girl and fucked her when she was 9. It's in your scriptures. Go ask anyone on the streets if they think fucking a 9 year old kid is not pedophilia.

 

[Loofydralb]

You didn't even know that your quran was standardized barely 100 years ago because there were too many different qurans around. Still want to deflect and hide by accusing others?

Your 53 year old fake prophet married a 6 year old girl and fucked her when she was 9. It's in your scriptures. Go ask anyone on the streets if they think fucking a 9 year old kid is not pedophilia.

Till today you cannot even tell me where those two Qurans are to be examined. Typical chink christian behaviour.

And till now you cannot even answer my question:
So at which age it is no longer considered pedophilia.
Cat got your tongue?

 

[JohnTan]

Till today you cannot even tell me where those two Qurans are to be examined. Typical chink christian behaviour.

Actually, I did. Links were all provided. But as usual, you choose to ignore whenever you can't reply. Even your own scriptures already said there are 7 different editions of arab-dialect qurans. Typical moslem cockroach behaviour. Run to the dark when cannot answer.