Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party. Time to stop the Reform?

[lockeliberal]

Dear Your

My point extended to both what you " considered premier" and and what you considered ." run of the mill." I do know of one SAFOS who did not make it as well and from personal observation I would not say that it was a lack of brains or chops in any form

I will still stand by my observation that one can game the system after seeing the extent to which some admin officers depend on fav ratings from the PS who in turn might only pay lip service to new ideas or the "not invented here syndrome."




Locke

 

[IR123]

After eight years to retire from the SAF as a Major is a major embarrassment, that is totally disgraceful, even by SMS standards. SAFOS hit MAJ at 27-28, and LTC by 30, and this guy left the service as MAJ after 8 years is a total disgrace by even by SMS standard.

..

And for the woman, it seems like she broke her bond after 4 yrs in MOF or was seconded to a GLC, if she wasn't a bondbreaker. In her time, all scholars had to serve 8 years. After 4 years and she was only an AD, she had failed spectacularly (compared to other scholars, if she is indeed an OMS, the report only states that she's a PSC scholar, which SGS is under).

Though you are right in the meritocracy game, this couple forms what i hope is a turning point in opposition politics.

A lot depends on our belief system. In my own system, absolute power can only reside in supermen. As a general principle, the tendency towards abuse of the system for their own ends is a human failing and this applies to all human beings regardless of religion, politics or skin colour.

For far too long, singapore politics is plagued by anti-PAP rhetoric. People vote because they want the PAP out. The oppositions played on this and lived off the people's anger and disillusionment.

The oppositions' incompetence remained unquestioned.



With the addition of these two scholars, a turning point has been reached.

This alone is of extremely high significance.




Because the next entrants to opposition politics may well be SAF Overseas Scholars and President Scholars, SME CEOs, Financial Controllers and Managing Directors of MNCs.

The change in landscape will enhance the credibility of the opposition.



When this leads the people to vote FOR the oppositions instead of AGAINST the PAP, the tide has truly turned.

When that happens, there is hope for Singapore.

And in my view, hope for the PAP.

 

[IR123]

And go check facts hor opposition had a slew of UK educated lawyers, including Francis Seow and one ah neh who's also well-educated and has since escaped to US now and now US citizen (hunted by PAP like an escaped fowl), both from some British law school and JB Jeya who has a UCL law degree, btw that's University College London hor. Go check facts then come back.


nothing has changed, because PAP has had far more formidable rivals than this crap, which is nothing yet they didn't win

let's exclude that unworthy "ah neh who's also well-educated and has since escaped to US" from this discussion; his is just an education but he is not well-educated

if Francis Seow is a lesser rival to the PAP, will your daddy consider granting him a right to take part in the coming General Election?

it is beyond the power of your daddy to bring JB back to life but just in case it is not, how about granting JB a right to take part in the coming General Election too?

 

[kingrant]

Hallo, what's yr beef huh? I been reading yr posts but must say I donch knoe wtf are you raving about? Besides, you've got an attitude man! Big time!

Knoe why? You donch sound like a scholar. Even if you did, are/were you one?
Even if you are/were, you fell from grace or what? Because you sound angry -- with scholars, but yet studied them so studiously, like you were not one, perhaps sour grapes?

Why donch you give us yr bottomline for once? You seem to want to contradict everybody's post, but what is yr stand?

Pls give us in bullet form. And cut out the patronising.

Are you sure? Check your facts. Are you saying that JB Jeyaratnam, who has a law degree from UCL was any qualified or less intelligent than that SMS farmer?

Its so not a technicality, because SMS is given out very easily, and doesn't even touch the cluster of coveted prestigious scholarships (1st tier PSC - SAFOS, SPFOS, OMS..and GIC heheha) You don't know that, did chiu, that's why you're in the clouds and think that he's some kind of elite treasure that RP bagged LMAO. The kind of quality you get, depends on how coveted something is. Same for woman. Wife or chicken. Chicken A in geylang only you want to patronise and no one else for 1 yr, confirm is bargain basement one, sometime no business even give free marketing trials, give you free or buy one get one. Chicken B got 500 customers all over the world bidding every hour, you confirm cannot afford one.

A technicality? Try telling that to the SMS who are not SAFOS hahah.

And who cares? The people who know. Take your time to read this thread. At least 4 different people who know said they know and noticed, dreamboy and thats just in this forum Hahah. If you know the difference in value of a Ferrari and Perodua, IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE IF YOU KNOW. If you don't know the difference between Ferrari and Perodua, you would be in dreamland posting in car forums that "no one cares about the difference and its only a technicality". People who know just think you look stupid that's all.

And go check facts hor opposition had a slew of UK educated lawyers, including Francis Seow and one ah neh who's also well-educated and has since escaped to US now and now US citizen (hunted by PAP like an escaped fowl), both from some British law school and JB Jeya who has a UCL law degree, btw that's University College London hor. Go check facts then come back.

PAP had its fair share of intelligent and cosmopolitan overseas educated opponents. At one time PAP thought of using the heartlander trick of relating to the heartlanders with dumb ass farmers with IQ less than 100 like Lee Bee Wah and Teo Ser Luck. I think now with this minor 'upset', they'd be rethinking their useless strategy.

nothing has changed, because PAP has had far more formidable rivals than this crap, which is nothing yet they didn't win :(. You don't know what you're talking about at all in anything. If these guys can't do this, don't expect Mr Tutor to save your day. You need people who are strong, and the tuition teacher aint it. RP need to try harder.

 

[yourdaddy]

Simple.

This guy ish nothing. anyone who's been through any number of days in NS knows. SMS is given out to a lot of tom, dick and harry. your daddy would like to support the Opposition for more balanced political scene and to fight for peasants but so far, and hope to see capable people fronting it, so far dunch have any.

but the report card so far is that PAP is doing worse than before, looking at its candidates like Sam Tan, Yu Foo Yee Shon, Lee Bee Wah and even Teo Ser Luck who sound like bookies. So RP has a shot, IF a stroke of miracle happens and good people, people who PAP would have wanted for itself and well regarded by the establishment, start coming forward or even just thinking about it now after this hoo-ha.

 

[elephanto]

I think YourDaddy eat too much 'bittergouds' & also a bit schizo oredy.

In the beginning, his English very competent, then as he gets angrier, decides to show his solidarity with common man, starts to bastardize his Engrand by typing 'Chiu' & 'Donch' & what crap.

Want to speak Singrish, don't use 'YrDaddy' as nick, openly use 'Limpei' more literal translation lah....

Yes, I am 'lao-bai-xing', farmer of native land.
You ? 'buay-kan' scholar ?:oIo:

 

[elephanto]

OK lah, all petty personal animosities aside, your last post is considerably more sensible.

We all hope for a worthy opposition.

If eminently qualified, all the better.

More importantly, somebody with strength in character,
not easily browbeaten or provide plenty of shady skeletons for PAPPIES to use as ammunition.

speak for the good of ordinary citizens.

Basically, restating your own ardent wish for a respectable opposition.

 

[kingrant]

Tks. But why is it that the yardstick has to be that of PAP?

PAP, as you well know from yr perch (wherever that is), as the incumbent , holds sway over the appt of civil service, deployment of scholars, their pastoral care etc. and by its bullyboy tactics, has a far superior - nay, the sole monopoly - position to get at the icing on the cake first, monopolise the talent pool, instil fear of retribution into those who opted not to be inducted into PAP, by covet or overt threats and carrots and stick.. so does it take rocket science PhDs to see that the opp parties are always on a non-level field, studded with portholes and booby traps for them.

I wouldnt be anymore enamoured if I am accepted by the Estab, for after all, who's the Estab and who's in it?

Big fleas have little fleas,
Upon their backs to bite them,
Little fleas have smaller fleas,
And ad infinitum.

Goes the saying.

.... people who PAP would have wanted for itself and well regarded by the establishment,

 

[yourdaddy]

I think YourDaddy eat too much 'bittergouds' & also a bit schizo oredy.

In the beginning, his English very competent, then as he gets angrier, decides to show his solidarity with common man, starts to bastardize his Engrand by typing 'Chiu' & 'Donch' & what crap.

Want to speak Singrish, don't use 'YrDaddy' as nick, openly use 'Limpei' more literal translation lah....

Yes, I am 'lao-bai-xing', farmer of native land.
You ? 'buay-kan' scholar ?:oIo:

If your daddy ish a buay kan scholar, then your daddy would be very happy to support buay kan scholar like Tony Tan (RP) one. Your daddy si know that the he is a nobody who is not about to bring the watershed change that all the press has whipped up to generate news and excite the youngsters.

Of course chiu may take it for granted and think everyone knows the difference between buay kan and eh kan but clearly majority of people don't know. He and his ejected from AS wife ish not going to be the Messiah and Prince of The Dawn that some wishful dreamers with no idea wat is going on may dream. That was all.

you mean I HAVE TO BE a high flying eh kan scholar to know who CMI and brand someone as buay kan? By this logic then none of chiu here got any balls to say anything other than grovelling exaltations of anyone in PAP who is even a small fry buay kan parl sec. gettit??

and now chiu are questioning how I should talk to chiu?! Thanks for praising that my English is competent when Mr scroobal here has many times insulted my speech abilities..:oIo::oIo::oIo: RIGHT BACK AT CHIU.

 

[yourdaddy]

Tks. But why is it that the yardstick has to be that of PAP?

PAP, as you well know from yr perch (wherever that is), as the incumbent , holds sway over the appt of civil service, deployment of scholars, their pastoral care etc. and by its bullyboy tactics, has a far superior - nay, the sole monopoly - position to get at the icing on the cake first, monopolise the talent pool, instil fear of retribution into those who opted not to be inducted into PAP, by covet or overt threats and carrots and stick.. so does it take rocket science PhDs to see that the opp parties are always on a non-level field, studded with portholes and booby traps for them.

I wouldnt be anymore enamoured if I am accepted by the Estab, for after all, who's the Estab and who's in it?

Big fleas have little fleas,
Upon their backs to bite them,
Little fleas have smaller fleas,
And ad infinitum.

Goes the saying.

PAP has not maintain the fidelity to its formula of taking in only the super candidates, as can be seen by its recent factory outputs of disappointments (Sam Tan WTF?). but I am sorry to burst you bubble and the one to break the bad news to you that everyone knows: tHe opposition's track record is WORSE.

At least PAP once got the formula laid out and had a string of marginal successes in its recruitment of power players, and of course besides the skills of spotting, it has to win the person over to its fold and before the recent duds, it managed to show some bright sparks over its resume of the last few decades.

The point that is clear to everyone is that 2 ejected goods are not your beacon of shining light. Chiu can dress it in any way you want, and cloak it your new-age PR BS that we should not measure by PAP's standards. Sorry to say the PAP standard has shown more credible results over the long term by sporadic hits in spurts, by actually winning over and recruiting respectable people (stress again, sporadi hits) that don't invite ridicule so quickly.

Of cos chiu dunch have to be welcomed by the establishment. I'm not going to vote for chiu. Or my karang guni man. So I dun need him to be welcomed by anyone as well.

You seem to think that it's a tall order for the opposition to get the same power players that PAP got. Me ish more optimistic stand and I prefer to think this point in time as a possible watershed for capable and eminent people to join various opposition parties (not SDP please the seow nang party). The recent Gerald Giam induction into the WP is a fine example.

We need more fine examples of Gerald Giam. And frankly what I hope for as a holder of Singapore citizenship is for truly capable and intelligent people to stand up. To be honest, even if these people rather join PAP, I'd rather they do that and so they could replace some of the duds I see in PAP now, and if PAP is destined to rule the country I live in for a long time to come, I'd much rather that to happen than 1) more duds entering the PAP 2) nobody good joining either side..the outcome would be worse off for citizens in any way. SO I'd much rather truly high fliers step up and join either the PAP or the Opposition to make a difference.

I have a list of names that I feel are intelligent and capable, and these power players who have recently in the last few yrs left the establishment at senior levels (not as politicians, but were civil servants) and are now holding top positions in GLCs were rumoured to enter the game or were rumoured to have been courted or earmarked for politics but it did not happen. Afterall this game is the cup of tea for everyone, even the best, because many of such people prefer to not answer to anyone but themselves and their families and this game requires the world to like you. If RP could ever get them, it'd make a huge difference to RP. And these people are about the same age as buay kan Tony Tan (RP)

 

[elephanto]

I have a list of names that I feel are intelligent and capable, and these power players who have left the establishment (not as politicians, but were civil servants) and are now holding top positions in GLCs were rumoured to enter the game or were rumoured to have been courted or earmarked for politics but it did not happen. If RP could ever get them, it'd make a huge difference to RP.

BTW You know of any from your aforementioned esteemed group of ex-civil servants who are holding top poisitions NOT in GLCs, but in respectable MNCs (Fortune 500) or large local listed companies ? "True" private sector honchos ?

 

[yourdaddy]

BTW You know of any from your aforementioned esteemed group of ex-civil servants who are holding top poisitions NOT in GLCs, but in respectable MNCs (Fortune 500) or large local listed companies ? "True" private sector honchos ?

Yes. I know a few younger chaps in their early to mid 30s who received and went to private sector MNCs (American and European owned), great packages that are comparable to what they drew in the admin service.

The older ones in the early 40s i know, not many, who are true power players, happen to go to a very large GLC.

 

[yourdaddy]

Dear Your

My point extended to both what you " considered premier" and and what you considered ." run of the mill." I do know of one SAFOS who did not make it as well and from personal observation I would not say that it was a lack of brains or chops in any form

He did not make it what? Did not make it to Admin Service? Went to Admin service and did not become perm sec? Or in SAF did not make it to General? Details and substantiation please.

To cut a long story short, nobody buys the outlier argument. You can name one SAFOS who "didn't make it", though you didn't offer any substantiation, I can name 2 American guys who walked on the moon. 2 out of 300 million Americans. I can name one SAFOS who made Olympiad history, but clearly no other SAFOS did that.

The world and companies and governments have progressed not using outliers but using statistical calculations and this involve concluding and subscribing to generalisations based on variance. The gap between SAFOS and SMS is very very wide. In the SAF, no one cares whether the SMS people exist or not, if what I remember from my days in NS and from my friends who are regulars in the service say is accurate, and I believe it is still the case, from the people still in the system.

The variance of each class allows enough buffer for general rules to apply at least the majority of the times, and making the opportunity costs of succumbing to outliers negligible. Without this, we'd all still be in caves and clubbing wild beasts for dinner.

Let me add, i'm not writing him off as a failure JUST ONLY because he's just an SMS. They are nobodies, it doesn't make them failure. Wat has been hi-lighted that also was that he was ejected by the system and left the establishment as a MAJ after 8 years. I believe I wasn't the only one who reacted to that. ALthough according to my friends who signed on to SAF, they say that that is normal for SMS. So maybe we judged him too harshly on that. Which beg the question why did we? Its goes back to the fact that he was JUST an SMS and sometimes we forget that even though we know, even those of us who know the difference. Isn't the human mind beguiling?

I'm also not saying he's a failure because he's an SMS. Its his MAJ rank after 8 long yrs and ejected from the system as a failure that is a failure.
But that he is a nobody, no big deal, so no need to get excited. I believe as early as Page 1 of this thread, someone else commented that he's no big deal. So I know i"m not alone on that. I am waiting for Opposition to get the big guns in. Who knows? Maybe it will happen not so far away from now

 

[IR123]

The recent Gerald Giam induction into the WP is a fine example.

I read about this as well as some other professionals joining the opposition via the WP.

And the wisdom of the PAP in keeping LTK in power becomes very apparent.


Once you can manage the top man, you can be sure that the top man will manage all the potent newbies into impotency.

 

[scroobal]

1) Nobody claimed that Tony was SAFOS in the first place.
2) Gerald Giam is in the same boat
3) Why must an MP be SAFOS material

What exactly is your point? I broke it down so that you can focus on the issue.

He did not make it what? Did not make it to Admin Service? Went to Admin service and did not become perm sec? Or in SAF did not make it to General? Details and substantiation please.

To cut a long story short, nobody buys the outlier argument. You can name one SAFOS who "didn't make it", though you didn't offer any substantiation, I can name 2 American guys who walked on the moon. 2 out of 300 million Americans. I can name one SAFOS who made Olympiad history, but clearly no other SAFOS did that.

 

[yourdaddy]

I read about this as well as some other professionals joining the opposition via the WP.

And the wisdom of the PAP in keeping LTK in power becomes very apparent.


Once you can manage the top man, you can be sure that the top man will manage all the potent newbies into impotency.

You mean LTK is evil/impotent?

 

[yourdaddy]

1) Nobody claimed that Tony was SAFOS in the first place.
2) Gerald Giam is in the same boat
3) Why must an MP be SAFOS material

What exactly is your point? I broke it down so that you can focus on the issue.

Gerald Giam is young. I'm more impressed by however much he has presented himself. he was not ejected from the very system that you seek to disarm, and I see Tony Tan no up, but I don't feel that way about Gerald Giam. I hope for the Opposition to get SAFOS level people in to stand a chance/have a more balanced political scene or for people of that level of competency and power going to PAP even if thats what they'd prefer.

Watch that I did not say get actual SAFOS necessarily, just on that level. In any case, its my vote and my right to make my assessment on TT. I can gloat in the fact that so many people clearly expressed the same views I did.

A lot of people at the apex are very content with leading their own lives, making money, if got free time from work however limited should be spent holidaying with wife in the Mediterranean and not doing the walkabout and I don't blame them. This has resulted in limited pool of willing parties, thats why you get plenty of duds and WTFs like those named who can get parl sec and wtf MOS and the thought that such people are drawing so much money even though they are crap, are enjoying that just because they have the willingness but not the chops.

I'm entitled to my own opinion. YOu can worship or proclaim TT as SAFOS material or some high flier whose loss that PAP is sobbing over right now.

 

[kingrant]

You have not answered my question on why the need to use the PAP yardstick of choosing scholars.

As you have already said, how many of these scholars chosen in the past stink to high heavens when they were actually put thru the grist?

Be that as it may, give the Opp chaps a chance. The RP has got these 2, the WP has got Giam. It's already a trickle. The trickle will become a stream, which will become a torrent over time. When the Old Man kicks the bucket, the shit will hit the fan. And the PAP may not be able to hold back its top scholars from crossing over to the Oppo.

Even so-called 'revolutionaries' like VB and Raymond Lim, Tharmam...after joining their ranks, invariably became one of their kind, so successful is their mind conditioning. One can't fight the system from outside, esp when you want to question the fundamentals, the first principles.

PAP has not maintain the fidelity to its formula of taking in only the super candidates, as can be seen by its recent factory outputs of disappointments (Sam Tan WTF?). but I am sorry to burst you bubble and the one to break the bad news to you that everyone knows: tHe opposition's track record is WORSE.

At least PAP once got the formula laid out and had a string of marginal successes in its recruitment of power players,

 

[scroobal]

Nobody has claimed TT as SAFOS. So can't understand why you want repeatedly address a claim that does not exist in the first place. So far your preference is based on the fact that Gerald is young and Tony is not. Interesting.

YOu can worship or proclaim TT as SAFOS material or some high flier whose loss that PAP is sobbing over right now.

 

[yourdaddy]

You obviously have severe comprehension problems.

TT is an old ejected failure + nobody to begin with. The 2 qualities are linked actually. Its because of his age that we know whether he has failed or succeeded and in his case, was failed

Anyway I have answered in various points in my previous post. I'm not going to waste more letters on your comprehension problems.