After all is said and done, one or two political parties who did not get a single member elected into parliament are simply demonstrating a very unseemly level of jealously. They should try to get elected instead of spending much time expressing jealously at the success of those who have a presence in parliament.
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No Basis for S'pore Opposition Parties to Mimic M'sian Opposition Coalition
- Thread starter ray_of_hope
- Start date
That is why I say that LTK is a very cunning person to keep himself "clean". He will not "dirty his hands" in fighting the PAP. He will let other parties, bloggers, protesters etc. do all the dirty work of fighting and he reaps the rewards. He is NOT my idea of a good leader and a good statesman.
It is like in a battle, he is "chow kuan" (translated bad behavior) and he always avoids the front-line and let other soldiers do the REAL fighting and suffer the battle wounds. And he protects himself with his so-called "clean" reputation with no defamation. You can worship LTK and I do not care. I do NOT respect and do NOT need a leader who does NOT have battle wounds.
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The "clean" image allows WP's MPs to be in parliament. If they believe parliament is the best channel to go, naturally they need to be in there to bring up some of these "dirty" issues, as you allege them to be, in "clean" ways and channels. It's a chicken and egg.
You tend to be careless in your terminology, "lip service" and calling support as "worshipping" are examples. Clean reputations and battle wounds have nothing to do with each other. I am not buying that. That's also because I'm not a personality based person. I don't idol worship LTK nor did I support WP because of LTK. It's because WP on the whole is doing most things right.
Please tell me what have the WP done right, with 7 MPs in Parliament for nearly two years, what have they achieved???? They did NOT even vote "NO" on the high ministerial salaries paper. Only this year, with the Hong Lim Park protest for the Population White Paper, that the WP finally grew some balls and voted "NO" on the Population White Paper. The WP MPs knew that if they did not vote "NO" on the Population White Paper, the protesters would be going after the WP as much as they go after the PAP. Go figure.
Mr LTK has been an MP for more than twenty years. That is quite a lot of taxpayers money paid on him. He has been as quiet as a church mouse in Parliament all these years and he is not called "silent" low without a good reason. Please share what has he achieved in the Parliament for more than twenty years prior to 2013? LTK is very cunning, he knows the best way to keep his job is to keep quiet.
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Well, cosmos10, in politics there is one rule to remember: it pays to be a winner.
Just get sdp to win a seat. Just find an excuse to win!
You win one seat, you can come here and smack all your critics silly.
Just get sdp to win a seat. Just find an excuse to win!
You win one seat, you can come here and smack all your critics silly.
This is suppose to be a discussion about Opposition unity and how the possiblity of a coalition between the opposition parties in Singapore would not take place as in the same manner as in Malaysia. But in the end, it again become a comparison of WP and SDP.
We got to understand and recognise that a coalition of any kind would not be taking place in Singapore. Looking at the huge difference between the respective parties, whether its idealogy, support base or even achievements.
The only way we could have any sort of unity is when everyone is willing to sit down and talk and get out of each other's way. The constant argement of why some parties refusing to support the agenda of another party and why it should have taken place, such an argument benefits no one but PAP.
In my opinion, the only way to win votes in Singapore is tyo talk about things that the voters can understand, can recognise and can feel for and not on topics that voters in general have no interest of. But we all must remember one thing: its easy to talk and talk and talk and make great speechs, yet if the opposition candidate could not put on the table what matters to voters the most, all the talking are useless.
We got to understand and recognise that a coalition of any kind would not be taking place in Singapore. Looking at the huge difference between the respective parties, whether its idealogy, support base or even achievements.
The only way we could have any sort of unity is when everyone is willing to sit down and talk and get out of each other's way. The constant argement of why some parties refusing to support the agenda of another party and why it should have taken place, such an argument benefits no one but PAP.
In my opinion, the only way to win votes in Singapore is tyo talk about things that the voters can understand, can recognise and can feel for and not on topics that voters in general have no interest of. But we all must remember one thing: its easy to talk and talk and talk and make great speechs, yet if the opposition candidate could not put on the table what matters to voters the most, all the talking are useless.
Are you a complete moron???
The debate on minister salaries was on to rcut down the salaries of Ministers. and you want WP to vote NO to that??
Sam, the boss of this forum, has clearly said before that there should be no name-calling in the political folder.
You can attack my message, but it is not necessary for you to stoop so low to attack the messenger, and to call me a moron, ok, brother?
I will be classier and I will show you a good example by not calling you back with the same name.
You can criticize CSJ and I can criticize LTK, that is fair game because they are both public figures subject to public scrutiny.
But you have no right to call me a moron, ok? Please have more class. Thanks.
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Ok make sense but I think I was trying to say there is no reason not to (door knock), whether an Oppo has Parliamentary seat or not.
Yes, TFBH, I agree with you about the "winning" bit. It is an uphill task for the SDP to fight two "enemies", the PAP and the WP. And that is why I am working hard in my own little way to help. The SDP will do their best during these three years to win the minds and hearts of the voters. At the end of the day, they will respect the voters' decision, because that is what democracy is all about. However, like in a good football game, or an NBA basketball game, it is not over till it is over. All I wish for is for the brothers here to not pour too much cold water on what the SDP does. None of us are paid, and we work hard for the sole reason that we love this country and we feel sad to see this country going down the drain.
Many of us have the means and the opportunity to just leave this country and forget about fighting a thankless job. But we stay to fight because this is HOME, and we are mindful that there are many other less-fortunate Singaporeans who cannot just pack up and leave.
I was in the US during the Obama 2008 Campaign, and the main message besides the "Yes, We Can" was the phrase "We are not the red states nor the blue states, but we are the UNITED States of America". In a sense, that is what we need now in Singapore, we need a leader who can heal the division within the country. Just think about how we fight here in this little forum, to the extent that we forget that we are first and foremost Singaporeans, and party supporters second. May be that is the reason why I felt very disappointed with LTK not appearing at the 50th anniversary of the Operation Coldstore. It could have been a symbolic day of healing of the past and the present. Anyway, lets pray for a leader to appear on the horizon who can, perhaps, unite this country.
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I don't think there's jealousy. Other political parties know that if WP takes off in a big way and leaves them behind, then they will be finished. Well, this will not happen for another two cycles. WP can win 20, maybe 30 seats and there will still be room for another political party in Singapore other than them. But after that, there will not be space for a third opposition party. When WP is able to, on its own, contest all the seats in Singapore, so that if any opposition party wants to contest, they'll be three corner fights, that will be when the WP will rule the opposition landscape. Whether they want to be such a big party may be another issue, given the fact that Singaporeans are probably sick and tired of big parties. Maybe the SDP or the NSP will become what the Lib Dems in Britain are today.
Ok. What about baseless allegation then?
So long as you regard parties as your enemies, you won't get anywhere. If you've been paying attention to the thread, the key is to reach out to the electorate, engage them directly, talk in their lingo, let yourself be an outlet for all their grievances. Then work your way into their hearts through long term engagement. There are no short cuts. Lashing out at LTK for not attending this or not, or for not doing this or not, is not going to damage him one iota. It just makes you look bad.
I applaud your contribution to the forum, regardless whether I agree or disagree. You should not allow yourself to be affected by "cold water". SEAL candidates are submerged in 15 degree celsius water for 15 minutes straight. Its called "surf torture". Think of it as a gut check.
I applaud your contribution to the forum, regardless whether I agree or disagree. You should not allow yourself to be affected by "cold water". SEAL candidates are submerged in 15 degree celsius water for 15 minutes straight. Its called "surf torture". Think of it as a gut check.
Can you qualify if that is the thought of SDP as well?
No way to verify that. All I see are spineless, shameless fake 40% making baseless smear and malicious stir, which if unchecked will benefit on the White Scums
That's my thought as well. WP couldn't possibly find that many star candidates, door knock so many before GE2016. There are plenty of opportunities for other Oppo.
But then again, how to explain what Cosmos10 said in post.131 where SDP is fighting both enemies the White Scums and WP?
If this is true then how to explain the joint candidate strategy during PE SMC BE2013? So SDP was willing to sleep with the enemy? Or SDP got split personality disorder?
Or Cosmos10 is really a spineless, shameless fake 40% trying to smear and stir to benefit the White Scums?
I can't believe you're saying this. Like I said before, I want SDP to do well, but you comparing SDP to Obama reflects a lack of understanding of political reality. If there is anybody who is like Obama, it is the Worker's party. Obama is a centrist. Much like you say WP paid lip service to the abolition of the ISD, Obama paid lip service to the closing of Guantanamo. That never happened. Obama is in many ways a compromiser in the mould of WP.
The romance of the Obama story is that he is black. (Actually he is half white but nevermind, he's black under the one drop rule). Singapore, in contrast, is further down along the line of minority race representation than America was in 2008. We have the GRC, which ostensibly reinforces a balanced minority in parliament. (When I look at the minority representation in the US congress, it didn't look like black people were underrepresented in congress.) As a digression, I looked through the election results and it seemed to me that the PAP had on average one woman in each GRC. Now if GRCs were really about representations of minorities, then you really should have another law that says that every GRC should have at least two women. Otherwise what the fuck is GRC really about. Anyway, we have Indians in the cabinet, we have a Malay in cabinet, when it comes to holding the highest office, then Singapore is not that far away from having an Indian PM, since we already have an Indian DPM.
There are other romantic stories from the WP, such as, a GRC falling for the first time, LLL being a former 'N' level candidate in parliament. Obama is great at grassroots. His election campaign managed to raise a huge amount of funds, he picked the right message. During 2008, he stayed above the fray of negative attacking - Hillary Clinton, who was Obama's real opponent (not John McCain - there was no way a Republican could have won that election) faltered because she went on the negative attack ads on Obama. It's a bit like Chee Soon Juan openly talking about "opposition unity" and so obviously not walking the talk, and Low Thia Khiang repeatedly refusing to respond likewise to him.
Like WP, Obama is probably better at grassroots than legislation. He's not great at it. Yes, he managed to pass health care, but he failed in a lot of other things, like gun control, most recently. He doesn't openly advocate progressive causes, but when the momentum for them builds up, he just follows. I think WP is like that. When it came to Libya, he "led from the back". When it came to gay rights, he also - well "leading from the back" is too homophobic, so I'll say instead that he used the term "my views are evolving".
What I sill say is this: SDP has a very poor understanding of how to get its message across. They are too wonky. I wish them well but when other people on this forum say that SDP doesn't know how to get its message across, I don't have an answer to that. I read this book a few years ago:
http://www.amazon.com/Political-Brain-Emotion-Deciding-Nation/dp/1586485733
The author is probably leaning democrat. And he was sick and tired of the way that the Democrats were crafting their message over the years. The WP knows how to target the gut level instincts. SDP doesn't know how to do that yet. Maybe Wijeysingha does, but the rest of them don't yet. Naturally our dear national library has no more than 1-2 copies of it. So you might be reading the same copy that I read. Probably doesn't want opposition parties to get their hands on it too easily. The subtitle is "the role of emotion in deciding the fate of the nation." SDP appeals to the brain far too much for your own good. I think that you guys should really really read that book and learn from it. You should understand how the Democratic party managed to make a lot of gains in the 2008 and 2012 elections by making the likeability factor an important issue.
Low Thia Khiang made the "healing of a nation" an issue, and he used the co-driver analogy. He cast himself as the friend who is willing to tell the leaders when they're wrong, but still not taking over the wheel. It is a reassuring story, one that is targetted at the people who wonder if politics in Singapore are going to be fractious and divided with the advances of the opposition. LTK is not going to go in all guns blazing, he's going to do a few friendly nudges here and there. But of course the more astute among us are going to wonder if he's going to do anything at all. The fact is that people still cherish the notion of a harmonious parliament (witness the picture that the WP took together with LKY during the parliament inauguration - very powerful message that even LKY understands that he cannot ignore). And WP is the party closest to getting that message right.
We have to be a bit realistic here. We are talking about human nature. People such as Pritam, CSM, Faisal, Png Eng Huat & Lee Li Lian, have been elected into Parliament in either their first or second attempts. There have been people in other parties who have been around donkeys years and yet cannot make it. Obviously, they feel frustrated and, understandably, jealous. Worse still, they feel that they are intellectually superior to those who got elected and entered parliament so quickly. My point is that they should not spend so much time venting that jealously online and packaging it in terms of the WP not doing this or that. The fact is that the WP and the SDP are different parties, with different approaches to politics. If SDP wants to issue press releases and organises forums, so be it. If WP wishes to concentrate on constituency work in its wards and makes its points in parliament, so be it. Each skins a cat a different way. So, I would say let it be and, ultimately, let the voters decide. But if there are those who cannot let it be and go online to stir up a hornet's nest then they should know that there will be a robust reaction.
Ok, I should have put the word "enemies" within inverted commas, not to be taken in the literal sense.
I agree with much of what you said. However, I maintain that I have a right to judge what LTK does or does not do. Whether it will damage LTK or not is not my objective, but I have a right to decide whether I respect a particular political leader or not. LTK is a public figure, and he is subject to public scrutiny. Some people like him, and some people like me do not like him. I also disagree that it will not damage LTK one iota if more truths are told about him and his inconsistent performance. Remember the old saying: The pen is mightier than the sword.
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SDP doesn't understand what opposition unity is all about. What they should do is just shut the hell up, work the ground, get a couple of seats in parliament. Then they'll be more than 2 parties in parliament. In fact right now there are. How's Lina Chiam doing? This thing about opposition unity - is she good buddies with the WP gang? Or is the WP so busy brown-nosing the PAP that they can't be bothered with her? Well, this talk about opposition unity is much more useful AFTER SDP gets into parliament, not before. Because then we can really see what it's all about. How they behave towards each other in parliament.
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