Workers Party. The only opposition in the world helping the ruling Party

[steffychun]

I don't think you understand what AV is. It is completely different to PR. In fact compared to PR, AV and FPTP might as well be the same thing because in most cases AV and FPTP give the same result for any one seat.

ok whatever

 

[cass888]

Let me make it simple for the simpletons in this forum.

What AV would mean is that those who voted for Kenneth Jeyaratnam and Desmond Lim would have put Li Lian as their second choice. So Li Lian would have got more votes.

It would also have meant that Cheng Bock would likely have won the presidential election because Jee Say and Kin Lian's voters would have put Cheng Bock or one of the other as second choice.

I don't think you understand what AV is. It is completely different to PR. In fact compared to PR, AV and FPTP might as well be the same thing because in most cases AV and FPTP give the same result for any one seat.

 

[steffychun]

Let me make it simple for the simpletons in this forum.

What AV would mean is that those who voted for Kenneth Jeyaratnam and Desmond Lim would have put Li Lian as their second choice. So Li Lian would have got more votes.

It would also have meant that Cheng Bock would likely have won the presidential election because Jee Say and Kin Lian's voters would have put Cheng Bock or one of the other as second choice.

AV would have knocked out Desmond already...as well as TKL...but you assume second choice for Desmond voters could be LLL.

 

[cass888]

AV would have knocked out Desmond already...as well as TKL...but you assume second choice for Desmond voters could be LLL.

Kenneth would also have got more votes because they have the option of putting LLL as second choice.

 

[steffychun]

Kenneth would also have got more votes because they have the option of putting LLL as second choice.

Well LLL would have gotten more since those who voted KPK 1st would have likely placed her second

 

[wwabbit]

In AV, nothing will happen to DL and KJ's votes simply because LLL already has 50%. Only if LLL had less than 50% then they will look at the DL votes for the second choices to transfer. If still no party has 50% then they will look at KJ votes to transfer.

 

[steffychun]

In AV, nothing will happen to DL and KJ's votes simply because LLL already has 50%. Only if LLL had less than 50% then they will look at the DL votes for the second choices to transfer. If still no party has 50% then they will look at KJ votes to transfer.

Ok yeah I forgot she passed the 50% mark.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Dear Frens,,

my take on the proportional representation thing,,,is that it fucks up the political system look at the shit that is happening to ang mor land. But I also believe that Singapore can have a political system better than what Ang mor land has. I use ang mor land as a analogy as many here wants us to be like ang mor land.

firstly the GRCs must be disbanded and all the gerrymandering must stop.

Constituencies are determined by population size,,,not by cut and past by the electoral commission. for example 1 MP for 40K ppl with variance of 2 percent etc.

Electoral boundaries will be released 2 years before a GE so all political parties can plan

We should implement fixed term fixed date elections like in the USA. none of this BS like ruling party call erection whenever it wants. And for PAP it can hold on to power for 6 years under the current rules.

Also the current parleementary term of 5 years is too long,,,4 years is ok,,,,and anything less is too short,,,UK has 5 year terms,,and its sinking faster than the titanic..

just my rants,,

 

[Sideswipe]

the semi-proportional Additional Member System is suitable for Singapore. AMS is used in South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Thailand...

what is likely to happen under this system. PAP and WP will win all the seats under FPTP constituencies and majority of seats under party list proportional representation. but the likes of SDP, NSP and others will win some seats under the party list PR. those people who prefer a two party system will still have their two party system. but the likes of SDP and NSP should win a few seats under PR and enter parliament to represent the voices of another group of people other than PAP and WP voters. ballot papers are not complicated at all. it is like you vote twice instead of once. that is it.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

That is why Proportional representation is not worth it,,,it gives 3rd rate political parties a say when they do not deserve it,,,they get rewards just because they contest? that is crap...imagine,,3rd rate parties like SDA, RP etc getting seats in parleement and sprouting shit,,what we want is a proper opposition like WP debating and voting against motions when its bad for singapore,,,not like the likes of JBJ where he just attack PAP for the sake of attacking PAP,,,

the semi-proportional Additional Member System is suitable for Singapore. AMS is used in South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Thailand...

what is likely to happen under this system. PAP and WP will win all the seats under FPTP constituencies and majority of seats under party list proportional representation. but the likes of SDP, NSP and others will win some seats under the party list PR. those people who prefer a two party system will still have their two party system. but the likes of SDP and NSP should win a few seats under PR and enter parliament to represent the voices of another group of people other than PAP and WP voters. ballot papers are not complicated at all. it is like you vote twice instead of once. that is it.

 

[Sideswipe]

That is why Proportional representation is not worth it,,,it gives 3rd rate political parties a say when they do not deserve it,,,they get rewards just because they contest? that is crap...imagine,,3rd rate parties like SDA, RP etc getting seats in parleement and sprouting shit,,what we want is a proper opposition like WP debating and voting against motions when its bad for singapore,,,not like the likes of JBJ where he just attack PAP for the sake of attacking PAP,,,

i disagree. a parliament should represent all divergent voices of the people. a bit more on the semi-proportional Additional Member System. i believe that apart from WP, only SDP, NSP can win some seats under PR list. it would be almost impossible for the likes of SDA, RP or SPP to get pass the electoral threshold level ( minimum % of votes ) to share seats under PR. if the threshold level is a high 5%. do you think it is easy for SDA or RP to win 5% nationwide votes in the PR list ? it is not easy to get that 5%. in fact, i think SDP and NSP will also struggle to get 5%. most countries set the threshold level at 2-3%.

in your opinion, no other opposition parties deserve a seat in parliament except WP ?

 

[The_Hypocrite]

2 or 3 % of votes and they get representation? that is crap,,,,it will give voices to those who does not deserve it,,and which constituents do they represent? they get a seat in a constituency tat they have not won? what will the voters of the think? They vote for A and B becomes their MP,,,

We should be moving away from a Parliamentary democracy to a system whereby the people decide and not the party,,,Proportional representation entrenches the party system and enhances the tyranny of the minority,,,

i disagree. a parliament should represent all divergent voices of the people. a bit more on the semi-proportional Additional Member System. i believe that apart from WP, only SDP, NSP can win some seats under PR list. it would be almost impossible for the likes of SDA, RP or SPP to get pass the electoral threshold level ( minimum % of votes ) to share seats under PR. if the threshold level is a high 5%. do you think it is easy for SDA or RP to win 5% nationwide votes in the PR list ? it is not easy to get that 5%. in fact, i think SDP and NSP will also struggle to get 5%. most countries set the threshold level at 2-3%.

in your opinion, no other opposition parties deserve a seat in parliament except WP ?

 

[Sideswipe]

2 or 3 % of votes and they get representation? that is crap,,,,it will give voices to those who does not deserve it,,and which constituents do they represent? they get a seat in a constituency tat they have not won? what will the voters of the think? They vote for A and B becomes their MP,,,

We should be moving away from a Parliamentary democracy to a system whereby the people decide and not the party,,,Proportional representation entrenches the party system and enhances the tyranny of the minority,,,

Additional Member System is alike two elections in one. 1 is for Constituencies. 1 is for Party List. "the two elections" combined give the MPs for Parliament.

imo. the FPTP system has too many flaws that could only be corrected by AMS system which combine FPTP and PR into one to give a result which will usually more truly represent the true will of the people.

FPTP enhances the tyranny of the majority that is the PAP: 60% votes, 90% seats. i think we have suffered enough from this FPTP through the lack of opposition numbers in the House for decades.

i really like this AMS system. you might like to read up more about it. maybe you might change your mind over it.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

That is why I propose that constituencies be determined by number of people per constituency,,not like now GRCs and all that crap,,,Elections be fixed term so that the ruling party cant suka suka call elections,,,by elections are held within 6 months of a sitting MP leaving the post,,

And another point is what about addressing the deficiencies of a Parliamentary system? Why must political parties have a big say in running the country just because they contest seats? why is Pinky a PM when there are many who make better PM? but to change this system,,,will take time,,my proposals are just the 1st step,,,just my rants

Additional Member System is alike two elections in one. 1 is for Constituencies. 1 is for Party List. "the two elections" combined give the MPs for Parliament.

imo. the FPTP system has too many flaws that could only be corrected by AMS system which combine FPTP and PR into one to give a result which will usually more truly represent the true will of the people.

FPTP enhances the tyranny of the majority that is the PAP: 60% votes, 90% seats. i think we have suffered enough from this FPTP through the lack of opposition numbers in the House for decades.

i really like this AMS system. you might like to read up more about it. maybe you might change your mind over it.

 

[steffychun]

That is why I propose that constituencies be determined by number of people per constituency,,not like now GRCs and all that crap,,,Elections be fixed term so that the ruling party cant suka suka call elections,,,by elections are held within 6 months of a sitting MP leaving the post,,

And another point is what about addressing the deficiencies of a Parliamentary system? Why must political parties have a big say in running the country just because they contest seats? why is Pinky a PM when there are many who make better PM? but to change this system,,,will take time,,my proposals are just the 1st step,,,just my rants

Then there will be a Pulau Ubin Constituency

 

[mojoe]

That is why I propose that constituencies be determined by number of people per constituency,,not like now GRCs and all that crap,,,Elections be fixed term so that the ruling party cant suka suka call elections,,,by elections are held within 6 months of a sitting MP leaving the post,,

And another point is what about addressing the deficiencies of a Parliamentary system? Why must political parties have a big say in running the country just because they contest seats? why is Pinky a PM when there are many who make better PM? but to change this system,,,will take time,,my proposals are just the 1st step,,,just my rants

until u get more opposition into parliament, it remains a dream

 

[The_Hypocrite]

yup,,that is why at this stage,,i rather just have one opposition party and that is WP as its the only one which is trusted and viable,,look at the 3rd rate oppos, SDP etc,,,they have no appeal and with them around,,we will forever be under the tyranny of the PAP

until u get more opposition into parliament, it remains a dream

 

[Cosmos10]

yup,,that is why at this stage,,i rather just have one opposition party and that is WP as its the only one which is trusted and viable,,look at the 3rd rate oppos, SDP etc,,,they have no appeal and with them around,,we will forever be under the tyranny of the PAP

Please explain how do you rate SDP as a third rate party? I would rather trust the SDP and NSP than the WP. Please remember you do not speak for ALL opposition Singaporeans. I for one certainly do not think that the WP is the only one which is trusted and viable. In fact, I do not even consider the WP as trusted and viable, let alone being considered the only one. Just my two cents. Thanks.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

SDP has limited electoral appeal,,look at their results in the last GE,,also all they do is want singapore to go down the road of welfare etc like in Ang mor land,,,and look at the state ang mor land is now?? I believe Singapore is in a position to have a better system than Ang mor land,,,but with PAP around,,and with 3rd rate oppos contesting for the sake of contesting and giving PAP a free ride,,,we will forever remain under PAP tyranny,,,

Please explain how do you rate SDP as a third rate party? I would rather trust the SDP and NSP than the WP. Please remember you do not speak for ALL opposition Singaporeans. I for one certainly do not think that the WP is the only one which is trusted and viable. In fact, I do not even consider the WP as trusted and viable, let alone being considered the only one. Just my two cents. Thanks.

 

[steffychun]

If you have a hodge podge of parties representing themselves, it is not a democracy for the people. Also, you'll fail to form a distinct government and need coalitions. Election results will not be definitive. Then the President will have to decide.