Which smart and capable man said this?

[NoelVermillion]

"If the PAP becomes corrupt, it will, and must lose its ruling party status."

 

[knightriderz]

lolx...cant remember... One of e miw currently in power? Provide mcq can?

 

[Ramseth]

"If the PAP becomes corrupt, it will, and must lose its ruling party status."

Goh Chok Tong.

 

[NoelVermillion]

Goh Chok Tong.

DING! DING! We have a winner!

But he is still in power..

 

[Ramseth]

DING! DING! We have a winner!

But he is still in power..

But he's not corrupt. PAP's not corrupt. They simply go Parliament and vote to pay themselves more millions (to prevent themselves from being corrupt). Corrupt means take money illegally. They take money legally.

Lee Kuan Yew, to be fair to him, came up with a few GRCs (3-member) in wards with many Malays to address the Malay MP shortage problem. LKY never came up with million-dollar pay for ministers or super GRCs (up to 6-member) that has nothing to do with minority representation but to stifle opposition ability to contest. Goh Chok Tong came up with all that, million-dollar ministers and super GRCs.

 

[NoelVermillion]

But he's not corrupt. PAP's not corrupt. They simply go Parliament and vote to pay themselves more millions (to prevent themselves from being corrupt). Corrupt means take money illegally. They take money legally.

Lee Kuan Yew, to be fair to him, came up with a few GRCs (3-member) in wards with many Malays to address the Malay MP shortage problem. LKY never came up with million-dollar pay for ministers or super GRCs (up to 6-member) that has nothing to do with minority representation but to stifle opposition ability to contest. Goh Chok Tong came up with all that, million-dollar ministers and super GRCs.

The only Singaporean leader I respect is LKY cause I feel at least he managed to develop this island into something. So I agree with your stand on LKY. I feel that PAP First Generation had outdone themselves in their achievements.

But I disagree with the first paragraph, technically it is legal but still it is taking money. So let us say if a government orders troops to fire on people, it is legal cause the govt say so? It is still murder and no different from a civilian murder another civilian.

 

[Ramseth]

But I disagree with the first paragraph, technically it is legal but still it is taking money. So let us say if a government orders troops to fire on people, it is legal cause the govt say so? It is still murder and no different from a civilian murder another civilian.

In such a scenario, it's obvious, isn't it? The victors pass the verdict and record the history. If the uprising succeeded in overthrowing the government, the government that ordered the shooting would be arrested and charged by the new government for crimes against humanities. If the uprising failed, they'd be arrested and charged for sedition, treason, whatever.

 

[kingrant]

I think you are quite wrong there. LKY has always championed the argument to pay top dollars for top dogs (albeit running dogs) even before stepping down as PM. If I recalled correctly, altho it was GCT who moved the final Million Dollars Pay bill in Parliament during his reign, LKY stood up first to set the pace and define the "greater good" parameters.

LKY never came up with million-dollar pay for ministers or super GRCs (up to 6-member) that has nothing to do with minority representation but to stifle opposition ability to contest. Goh Chok Tong came up with all that, million-dollar ministers and super GRCs.

 

[kingrant]

A better word shld be 'outlived'.

I feel that PAP First Generation had outdone themselves in their achievements.

 

[elephanto]

In 1959, a young 36-yr-old PM Lee Kuan Yew came in to form the first self-rule garmen ..... and promptly order pay-cut for civil service & modest pay for cabinet.

So much so, Raja made less than when he was a journalist & Lee Koon Choy borrowed money from Ong Eng Guan for his in-law's funeral....

The million-dollar minister pay system was not in evidence then.

That much is FACT & can't be disputed.

Later in the 80s, Lee had encountered challenges in political succession & the difficulties of getting capable candidates to come in ...... and drawn some lessons & formed some convictions over time.

His eloquent arguments had mesmerized the Nation when as mentioned earlier by kingrant & ramseth, LKY was the keynote speaker when GCT moved the pay-hike bill debate in parliament.

Subsequently, recognizing this is a hot political potato, they institutionalize the whole damn thing into an automatic formula .... 2/3 of the mean pay of top 6 blah blah blah blah....

At the end of the day, in varying degrees, we may ALL disagree with the logic of high pay to ensure incorruptibility & easing the entry of qualified talents into politics but speaking for myself, Lee & Goh in enshrining this conviction are playing with fire as this is a double -edged sword.

There is a high political cost to be paid to pursue this policy.
Yet, no guarantees that it leads to the appearance of undisputed talents.

Hence the ridicule of ministars whenever scandals like Mas Selamat & once-in-50-years calamities broke out.

Only when the depoliticisation of Singapore is reversed, a suitable climate to inspire a new Obama Generation that public service is honorable & un-corny and the scrapping of 20-30 years of political leadership lives for top talents to ease back into private sector for big earnings .... these are just some factors I feel are necessary to ensure a viable alternative to the current Highest-minister-pay-in-the-world system.

By no means conclusive, I stand corrected.

 

[jw5]

But he's not corrupt. PAP's not corrupt. They simply go Parliament and vote to pay themselves more millions (to prevent themselves from being corrupt). Corrupt means take money illegally. They take money legally.

Lee Kuan Yew, to be fair to him, came up with a few GRCs (3-member) in wards with many Malays to address the Malay MP shortage problem. LKY never came up with million-dollar pay for ministers or super GRCs (up to 6-member) that has nothing to do with minority representation but to stifle opposition ability to contest. Goh Chok Tong came up with all that, million-dollar ministers and super GRCs.

It doesn't matter who came up with the idea originally.
If any of us really think that oldman was not the final decision maker in the key decisions such as those, than perhaps we really don't understand them.
Somehow, I think most of us here do understand.

 

[jw5]

The only Singaporean leader I respect is LKY cause I feel at least he managed to develop this island into something. So I agree with your stand on LKY. I feel that PAP First Generation had outdone themselves in their achievements.

But I disagree with the first paragraph, technically it is legal but still it is taking money. So let us say if a government orders troops to fire on people, it is legal cause the govt say so? It is still murder and no different from a civilian murder another civilian.

There's a big difference in the 2 examples you cited.
If a government goes around killing its people, the UN wil get involved, because it will deem the government as having eradicated their human rights totally. A dead man can't vote.
But if a government passes a law in parliament that pays the ministars huge salaries, the people can protest and object by voting for an alternative goverment or alternative mps at the next election. People who feel really strongly about it are all well and alive enough to stand for elections in opposition to the ruling party.
But we didn't, did we?

 

[Ramseth]

It doesn't matter who came up with the idea originally.
If any of us really think that oldman was not the final decision maker in the key decisions such as those, than perhaps we really don't understand them.
Somehow, I think most of us here do understand.

I'd just say, LKY looks very pleased with GCT developments upon his ideas.

 

[jw5]

I'd just say, LKY looks very pleased with GCT developments upon his ideas.

Hahaha, very well put.
I think even the pappies would like that kind of explanation.

 

[batman1]

But he's not corrupt. PAP's not corrupt. They simply go Parliament and vote to pay themselves more millions (to prevent themselves from being corrupt). Corrupt means take money illegally. They take money legally.

Lee Kuan Yew, to be fair to him, came up with a few GRCs (3-member) in wards with many Malays to address the Malay MP shortage problem. LKY never came up with million-dollar pay for ministers or super GRCs (up to 6-member) that has nothing to do with minority representation but to stifle opposition ability to contest. Goh Chok Tong came up with all that, million-dollar ministers and super GRCs.

Whether it is overt corruption or covert coruption or selective corruption or legalised corruption,it is still corruption,only greedy and balls-less sinkees can be brainwashed into believing that it is OK for certain inhuman people to pay themselves super highest multi-million singapore dollars salaries annually in the world !

 

[NoelVermillion]

A better word shld be 'outlived'.

one of them has outlived and still in power.

 

[NoelVermillion]

There's a big difference in the 2 examples you cited.
If a government goes around killing its people, the UN wil get involved, because it will deem the government as having eradicated their human rights totally. A dead man can't vote.
But if a government passes a law in parliament that pays the ministars huge salaries, the people can protest and object by voting for an alternative goverment or alternative mps at the next election. People who feel really strongly about it are all well and alive enough to stand for elections in opposition to the ruling party.
But we didn't, did we?

true. quite a lot of sinkies did not complain..