What is going to happen to sitting duck aircraft carrirers?

motormafia

motormafia

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File:IJN_carrier_Amagi_capsized_off_Kure_in_1946.jpg


6743244.jpg


Today even 3rd world nations can easily detect and track as well as attack these huge sitting ducks. The ratio of cost between the offensive cost and potential losses is drastic. It cost little to threaten carriers compared against the looses and damages these threats may result in.

In the past wars carriers faced only bombs and torpedoes not missiles. Today there are so many kinds of threats faced by carriers including nuclear.

These pictures here showed carriers lost in the past wars. In todays wars carriers would be among the first ships to be gone at the very beginning stage of a war. In full scale conflicts they will be hit within hours.

http://www.johntreed.com/sittingducks.html

http://www.alternet.org/world/13483...rs_are_(expensive)_defenseless_sitting_ducks/

http://video.google.com/videosearch...arrier+sitting+ducks&vid=-4839854144765765927

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhj8ITvp-pw
 
Who got the balls to sink any of the present nuclear powered aircraft carriers of the US Navy? It will only provoke retaliation on the scale of just bringing down another skyscraper on US soil.

For China to sink a US carrier is relatively easy. It's the consequences they to face that holds them back.

http://www.johntreed.com/sittingducks.html
 
It proves the point. You can sink a US Navy aircraft carrier. Now who wants to do it?
 
Since the ending of the second world war, which country had attempted to sink a US Navy aircraft carrier. The old Soviet Union?
 
TheBonerman said:
That's the Japanese WWII carrier and it capsized.
Click to expand...

Carriers are not stable with their huge deck on top and small hull below. Superstructure etc seriously one sided. A big blast on the side can capsize it. Even a missed missile hit that blast up the water on the side. That's it.
 
If you had taken the trouble to read my link, the US Navy knows yet still continued with the renewal of the carrier fleet with the Old Man Bush as namesake for the last of the Nimitz class. Now who dares sink a US Navy nuclear powered aircraft carrier?
 
TheBonerman said:
Now who dares sink a US Navy nuclear powered aircraft carrier?
Click to expand...

It is too naive to have that kind of childish awe for USA.

Before WW2 you could ask who dare to raid Pearl Harbor, before 911 you could also ask who dare to destroy World Trade Center and who dare to attack Pentagon.

Fuck the Yankee spiders!

They are all done, and they will be done again and again if necessary.

There is no question of who dare. It is only a question of when.

It will be done, and just unsure who will do it first.

Al Qaida was just a tiny little name before 911, and Old Bush + Clinton + Moron Bush ALL didn't give much of shit about Bin Laden, until they got fucked at 911. Complacency according to SG Old Fart.

Many people aren't afraid, and want to make history. Many did it. Others are sceptically and coward and naive, they just stand to be shocked when the greater people did their businesses. ;)
 
I think it depends on the situation. 9/11 was attack against civilian target and it is very different from an attack on a military target. Depending on the circumstance (Taiwan), the Chinese could very well try and destroy a US carrier group. Contrary to popular believe, carriers are hard to detect as they have a security bubble. Anything flying within a 500 mile radius will be intercepted. So unless you have a military satellite, very hard to find them. Chinese are working on some ballistic anti carrier missile that uses satellite tracking.


There can be two scenario. One is conventional and the other is nuclear. I suspect that in a confrontation where a US carrier is destroyed, the US would not escalate to nuclear. OK you can do more damage to the Chinese in a nuclear attack but in return you lose - NY, SF, LA, Boston, Seattle. Not worth it for loss of carrier. The most they could do is try and bomb, using conventional cruise missiles on some Chinese cities.

In a convention confrontation it is going to be tough going. It took them months to prepare for Iraq and they had Kuwait as staging area. And Iraq is very different from China.

Politics is such that US can only fight against small countries. US citizens will not allow for huge casualties.


TheBonerman said:
Who got the balls to sink any of the present nuclear powered aircraft carriers of the US Navy? It will only provoke retaliation on the scale of just bringing down another skyscraper on US soil.

For China to sink a US carrier is relatively easy. It's the consequences they to face that holds them back.

http://www.johntreed.com/sittingducks.html
Click to expand...
 
longbow said:
Contrary to popular believe, carriers are hard to detect as they have a security bubble. Anything flying within a 500 mile radius will be intercepted.
Click to expand...

If you checked the YouTube site and the YouTube link I posted here, you will find that US carrier groups air defense had been PENETRATED REPEATEDLY. They are nothing.

In a 3D warfield the can be attacked easily from Space, Air, Surface and Sub-Marine.

They carrier groups are slow and huge, even the Somalian pirates can detect and track them. These days, common marine radar can find carriers. Planes can spot them. Sonar from subs and see bed installed sonar belts can locate them. They are too big to be missed. Even fishing boats can report their locations. That is how Somalian pirates could track targets.

US carrier groups had been followed by Russian & Chinese subs frequently. They have no effective defense from Sun Burnt missiles and supersonic torpedoes. A cheap sub can launch a dozen of these.
 
Currently it is very difficult to detect a carrier when it does not want to be detected. Radars can easily be jammed and any aircraft coming within a range will be intercepted. It is not as easy as you think. A couple years back Singapore Navy had joint exercise with US Navy. US carrier was give a couple hours headstart into the South China Sea and for the rest of the exercise, our Navy was unable to locate the carrier group. Remember that carrier does not move alone but with a fleet of missile cruisers armed with sophisticated electronics.



motormafia said:
If you checked the YouTube site and the YouTube link I posted here, you will find that US carrier groups air defense had been PENETRATED REPEATEDLY. They are nothing.

In a 3D warfield the can be attacked easily from Space, Air, Surface and Sub-Marine.

They carrier groups are slow and huge, even the Somalian pirates can detect and track them. These days, common marine radar can find carriers. Planes can spot them. Sonar from subs and see bed installed sonar belts can locate them. They are too big to be missed. Even fishing boats can report their locations. That is how Somalian pirates could track targets.

US carrier groups had been followed by Russian & Chinese subs frequently. They have no effective defense from Sun Burnt missiles and supersonic torpedoes. A cheap sub can launch a dozen of these.
Click to expand...
 
motormafia said:
File:IJN_carrier_Amagi_capsized_off_Kure_in_1946.jpg


6743244.jpg


Today even 3rd world nations can easily detect and track as well as attack these huge sitting ducks. The ratio of cost between the offensive cost and potential losses is drastic. It cost little to threaten carriers compared against the looses and damages these threats may result in.

In the past wars carriers faced only bombs and torpedoes not missiles. Today there are so many kinds of threats faced by carriers including nuclear.

These pictures here showed carriers lost in the past wars. In todays wars carriers would be among the first ships to be gone at the very beginning stage of a war. In full scale conflicts they will be hit within hours.

http://www.johntreed.com/sittingducks.html

http://www.alternet.org/world/13483...rs_are_(expensive)_defenseless_sitting_ducks/

http://video.google.com/videosearch...arrier+sitting+ducks&vid=-4839854144765765927

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhj8ITvp-pw
Click to expand...

that's a ww2 british aircraft carrier, hms ark royal.
 
Why anyone want to sink Aircraft carrier? No one will go on war these day. both side will lose.
Any country with too many aircraft carrier will sink thier own economy because it need huge amnount af budget to maintain a carrier. Just look at US for years it slowly sink into huge debt.
 
Singapore will soon be purchasing it's first aircraft carrier!

aircraft-carrier-with-golf-course.jpg


Too far fetched? Reclaimed land acquired at the cost of billions of dollars are turned into playgrounds for the privileged elite. Are You guys blind when you travel on the Benjamin Sheares Bridge?
 
Last edited:
motormafia said:
If you checked the YouTube site and the YouTube link I posted here, you will find that US carrier groups air defense had been PENETRATED REPEATEDLY. They are nothing.

In a 3D warfield the can be attacked easily from Space, Air, Surface and Sub-Marine.

They carrier groups are slow and huge, even the Somalian pirates can detect and track them. These days, common marine radar can find carriers. Planes can spot them. Sonar from subs and see bed installed sonar belts can locate them. They are too big to be missed. Even fishing boats can report their locations. That is how Somalian pirates could track targets.

US carrier groups had been followed by Russian & Chinese subs frequently. They have no effective defense from Sun Burnt missiles and supersonic torpedoes. A cheap sub can launch a dozen of these.
Click to expand...

U truly are naive. Do you really think a US aircraft carrier is that easy to destroy. Carrier BAttle Group air space can be penetrated easily? In your dreams. Many so call foreign govt. claim they can penetrate a CBG, but you need to take it with a grain of salt. U got AWACS coverage from the E-2s which can track 2000 targets up to 400 miles from the CBG. U have F-18s with AAMRAAM that will start taking out enemy aircraft and missiles at that range. If the enemy aircraft can avoid all the F-18s from 400 miles away, and they get to within 75-50 miles, the Aegis cruisers will take them out with their anti air missiles. Within 25 miles, the enemy aircraft can lauch a anti shipping missile. The escorts and the carrier itself will try to defeat it with Phalanx. Even if the missile hits the carrier, they are typically Exocet or Harpoon size, and it will take more than 10 of them to sink the carrier. U have to have the missile nuclear tipped to sink the carrier with one shot, and the Russians were the only ones to have that.

As for Russian and Chinese subs following the CBG, trust me when I tell you the CBG knows where they are at all times and are tracking them. If the conflict goes hot, the escorting hunter killer subs like the LA class will kill these subs first. And this will be done in co-ordination with anti-sub helos from the carrier. Nowadays, the design on the carriers are so good, fire fighting equipment is so good, and the fire training of the crew are so good that its very hard to sink one. If you look at the USS Forrestal accident, you will see that its equivalent to hitting that carrier with 20 bombs and missiles and it stilled stayed afloat. Go and do some research, little boy.
 
longbow said:
Currently it is very difficult to detect a carrier when it does not want to be detected. Radars can easily be jammed and any aircraft coming within a range will be intercepted. It is not as easy as you think. A couple years back Singapore Navy had joint exercise with US Navy. US carrier was give a couple hours headstart into the South China Sea and for the rest of the exercise, our Navy was unable to locate the carrier group. Remember that carrier does not move alone but with a fleet of missile cruisers armed with sophisticated electronics.
Click to expand...

SAF no count lah. SAF can not even find MSK, so carrier no chance.

Carriers are huge and easy to locate even visually. The military will not only use radar, they also use thermal and sonar. Even Libya was capable of tracking US Navy in 80s.

There is no such thing as stealth carrier so far. :D That's why they are sitting ducks.

There are too much emissions from carriers for them to be detected. Their own noise, heat, radio comms, etc exposed their positions. Their airplanes taking off and landing on them exposed them even further, you track the planes you will find the carriers, the battle group consist of too many ships it is impossible to miss.

Even Somalian pirates can locate the US carriers.
 
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