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Wen Jiabao: China economy unstable, unsustainable

GoFlyKiteNow

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‘Debt-Fueled Bubble’
By Bloomberg News

China’s Wen Blocked by Politics From Fixing ‘Unstable’ Economy

(Bloomberg) -- Premier Wen Jiabao calls China’s economic growth path “unbalanced, uncoordinated, and unsustainable.”

This week’s annual parliament session may prove he is unable to change its course.

Wen, 67, will give what amounts to China’s State of the Union speech tomorrow to the National People’s Congress in Beijing. His audience will include people who, according to analysts, disagree with some possible measures to fix the imbalance: provincial and municipal officials and such company heads as Hangzhou Wahaha Group Co. Chairman Zong Qinghou.

Adding to the inertia is the fact that Wen, President Hu Jintao and other leaders are nearing the end of their tenures, said Jim McGregor, a senior counselor in Beijing at APCO Worldwide. APCO is a public-affairs group advising clients including China Cosco Holdings Co., Asia’s biggest shipping company.

“China’s in severe election mode,” McGregor said in a Bloomberg Television interview. “They have 2 1/2 years left in their term.” There is “a lot of jockeying for position.”

Wen says China’s growth model -- emphasizing investment, manufacturing and exports over consumption -- is creating economic distortions. He told an online audience on Feb. 27 that 2010 would be “the most complicated year for the country’s economy” as the government sought to control property prices and inflation stoked by $1.4 trillion in new lending last year.

‘Debt-Fueled Bubble’

Wen’s view is shared by Kenneth Rogoff, a professor at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Rogoff said on Feb. 23 that a collapse of China’s “debt-fueled bubble” could send growth to as low as 2 percent from last year’s 8.7 percent.

“Things need to change now,” said Wang Tao, a Beijing- based economist for UBS AG, in an interview. “Later the costs will become higher and higher.”

One remedy is an overhaul of the tax system, Wang and other economists say, to create a dependable stream of revenue for China’s local governments. A property tax and a sales tax could wean them from dependence on land sales and production taxes. Land sales helped fuel real-estate speculation and taxes on industrial production stoked overcapacity in steel and cement as local governments built factories regardless of whether they generated a profit.

Against It

Those measures aren’t on this year’s Congress agenda “because there are so many people against it,” Wang said.

While a property tax isn’t likely to be implemented this year, a timetable may be set, Hong Kong-based CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets said in a Feb. 22 research note.

Many government officials oppose the tax, fearing it will reduce the value of their own real-estate holdings, said Arthur Kroeber, managing director of Beijing-based Dragonomics, an economics-research firm whose clients include hedge funds and Fortune 500 companies.

“A property tax is not suitable,” said Zong, of Hangzhou- based Wahaha, in an interview. He is a delegate to the Congress. “There is no need for it. It will just make houses less affordable.”

Wen is likely instead to announce measures, some of them favored by Zong, to help ease income disparities. They may include increasing the minimum wage and spending more on housing for poor people, CLSA said. Such moves help promote consumption and ease economic distortion, but they are insufficient, Wang said.
 

longbow

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Definitely the case. How can an economy grow at 11.9%!!!

It is not just politics after all that is a couple years away but just put yourself in his shoes.

China, unlike many 3rd world agrarian economies, is totally plugged into the global economy. Hence you see the constant pilgrimage by US treasury Secretary to Beijing.

And we are not just talking about their exports. Chinese imports from EU and US are huge (for the first time last month Chinese had a trade deficit!). The same is true for their consumption of commodities (support the economies of commodity exports from india to Australia to Chile).

And then we have their huge financing of US and EU debt. So Wen has to throttle back the Chinese economy to a more sustainable 8%, prevent inflation, support financial system with China and at the same time not collapse the US and EU economy. With both EU and US economies being weak, it is the Chinese economy that is propping what is left of world demand.

Buut there are many silver linings as the country advances. We see talk of a more progressive tax system, a stronger pension/ health insurance system. This is all part of the game. Anyway no pain no gain.

So it is not easy for Wen. And yes there is politics. Germany's Merkel delayed propping iup Greece because of Germany elections. By the time elections was over, Germany threw in kitchen sink but to little too late. SO of course there is politics but the Chinese still have another 2.5 years to go.
 

GoFlyKiteNow

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A bit amusing.
Your reply is merely extolling in its substance.
It is not focussed or analytical to the topic of this thread.
The header should give a clue to what that topic is.
 

Sperminator

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Double Bubbles... sounds like the game that we used to play when we were young, bubbles bubbles... "duh" "duh" "duh"

Whatever the case, the property bubbles in China is already at dangerous levels, causing unrest in the peoples' hearts.

There is absolutely no way any newly graduates of China could afford a city central, coastal city, or 2nd tier city apartment. The pricings are stratropheric. (Unless their parents financed for their housing, which is actually quite common due to the 1 child policy after 1978)

It is funny to see that in China (only in China), the Property Industry is regarded as a MAIN industry, which help fuel growth, and SUPPORT other Industries.

This (supposingly) Support Industry (Properties) is facing a problem of non-demand, due to it's astronomical prices. The properties pricings can be much more expensive than Singapore today!

Honestly, I think this "main" Industry may crash in a matter of time, this year of next, the bubble, will and MUST burst. This bursting, will cause numerous property developers to go bankrupt, and banks with alot of bad debts.

--> As for the importation of goods & services from EU and USA, what USA is trying to do now is to entice China to increase it's RMB value, so as to reduce the cost of importation for CHINA, and hoping to stimulate a higher consumption rate of the EU and USA's goods and services.

This falls in nicely to EU and USA's plan of closing the trade imbalance between China and (EU and USA).

Besides, everyone is stuck in the Petro-Dollar game, there is no apparent way out at the moment.

Everyone just have to keep playing the Petro-Dollar (fiat dollar) game for the time being.

And finally, when Wen Jiabao can say such things, really... something is going to happen in 2010!

Everyone hold your grounds, and be defensive in 2010. Cash is king now, and GOLD is even better!
 

woolsworth

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In 2008 , you mentioned that the Decoupling of the US & China's economy was a myth . Today , in 2010 , China's economy is growing at 11.9 % while the US Economy is still in shambles (a paltry 0.000003% growth LOL ...)

If this is not evidence of Decoupling , someone must be smoking lots of stuff....

So who's the new superpower on the block ? India ....????
 

Capano2020

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It is just a matter of time that the doggy bubble will burst and then there will be lower price china whore available.
 

Logisex

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My Shanghai colleague had just jump out of her seat because she heard that the SH government is going to impose a massive property tax to curb property speculation. She calculated her new property tax to be CNY640,000............muah hahahahaha
 

GoFlyKiteNow

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In 2008 , you mentioned that the Decoupling of the US & China's economy was a myth . Today , in 2010 , China's economy is growing at 11.9 % while the US Economy is still in shambles (a paltry 0.000003% growth LOL ...)

If this is not evidence of Decoupling , someone must be smoking lots of stuff....

.????

The only question mark is this. China's official statistics and data are always questioned due to the absolute lack of transparency and suspicions of cooking up figures. Repeatedly and consistently doubted by the financial markets and institutions worldwide.

Who says china is growing at 11. 9%. The communist party machine run government says so. Claims so. Like a falsehood stated a 1000 times can apparently become truth.

Transparency is zero. Hence doubts are maximum.
 

newyorker88

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The only question mark is this. China's official statistics and data are always questioned due to the absolute lack of transparency and suspicions of cooking up figures. Repeatedly and consistently doubted by the financial markets and institutions worldwide.

Who says china is growing at 11. 9%. The communist party machine run government says so. Claims so. Like a falsehood stated a 1000 times can apparently become truth.

Transparency is zero. Hence doubts are maximum.

I concur on the transparency issue.

When things can go wrong, it will, so just a matter of time. There are so much problems with the china economy, and all it takes is right timing.

Very much like the 2008 crisis which lehman brothers is a start only. It is the result of cumulative problems. Even USA whose money is used all over the world, is not spared from the problems, lucky for usa that it can export her debts all over the world.

Imagine the base of a building, which is on weak foudations, and the higher you build, and bigger you build up, the bigger the fall. So, what is china going to do when all shit piles up?

It is everybody's guess.

China will be brought down on her kneels, just you watch. They only flood everywhere with their goods and whores. It may be in the future that they have to DEVALUE their currency again, to get themselves out of this shit.

So those who keep saying China will rule the world talk, go ahead and invest all your $$$ in. Those who are smart got in early and are now getting out.
 

FlipSide

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I concur on the transparency issue.

When things can go wrong, it will, so just a matter of time. There are so much problems with the china economy, and all it takes is right timing.

Very much like the 2008 crisis which lehman brothers is a start only. It is the result of cumulative problems. Even USA whose money is used all over the world, is not spared from the problems, lucky for usa that it can export her debts all over the world.

Imagine the base of a building, which is on weak foudations, and the higher you build, and bigger you build up, the bigger the fall. So, what is china going to do when all shit piles up?

It is everybody's guess.

China will be brought down on her kneels, just you watch. They only flood everywhere with their goods and whores. It may be in the future that they have to DEVALUE their currency again, to get themselves out of this shit.

So those who keep saying China will rule the world talk, go ahead and invest all your $$$ in. Those who are smart got in early and are now getting out.

According to many reports over last few months, China growth was just 2 %.

And this year does not look any better.

Probably there is no more US loose money ( easy credit US dollars ) available anymore to fuel China's export industry.
 

woolsworth

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The only question mark is this. China's official statistics and data are always questioned due to the absolute lack of transparency and suspicions of cooking up figures. Repeatedly and consistently doubted by the financial markets and institutions worldwide.

Who says china is growing at 11. 9%. The communist party machine run government says so. Claims so. Like a falsehood stated a 1000 times can apparently become truth.

Transparency is zero. Hence doubts are maximum.

To paraphrase :

The USA official statistics and data are always questioned due to the absolute lack of transparency and suspicions of cooking up figures.

Repeatedly and consistently doubted by the financial markets and institutions worldwide- the best example is this -> The CDO was rated AAA – when it was shitty all the way . It caused the Global Financial Crises in 2008 .

No wonder The Chinese government has told Chinese companies they do not have to honor derivates and commodity futures contracts made with Western financial institutions ; in essence the China companies told the US banks to fxxk off …LOL

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSPEK36146520090831

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574400390175833498.html

Since you claim China transparency is Zero , maybe China doesn't exist ? Maybe it is just a figment of our imagination . Maybe the Beijing Olympics 2008 was faked all the way ... LOL



At the end of the day , there is only one new superpower kid on the block . INDIA !!! Transparency is 100% . Hence doubts are minimum .

Yeah , Go INDIA ..they will overwhelm the Yanks and the Chinese soon !
 

woolsworth

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I concur on the transparency issue.

China will be brought down on her kneels, just you watch. They only flood everywhere with their goods and whores. It may be in the future that they have to DEVALUE their currency again, to get themselves out of this shit.

So those who keep saying China will rule the world talk, go ahead and invest all your $$$ in. Those who are smart got in early and are now getting out.


Yes, while the PIGs of EU are begging for $$ , while the USA is still licking up their shit , China will soon fall. ...

but hey..this was what they said 5 years ago ????


nah, India rules !!
 
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