Water Conservation ala PAP

Hans168

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There was a talk over FM 938 about water conservation & efforts attended by callers & PUB sr engineer..

A caller lamented that his water consumptions over past 20 years had been 20-30% below national average and yet he still pays water conservation tax.

He has been doing his part, why is he still required to pay the tax? PUB replied that he can be made special member AND when he uses less water he is already saving on his bill and tax!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't it daylight robbery PAP style? You tax pple for not converserving water but YOU dun incentivise them for converserving water!!

Dun forget PUB is a monopoly and must play fair to consumers.
 
There was a talk over FM 938 about water conservation & efforts attended by callers & PUB sr engineer..

A caller lamented that his water consumptions over past 20 years had been 20-30% below national average and yet he still pays water conservation tax.

He has been doing his part, why is he still required to pay the tax? PUB replied that he can be made special member AND when he uses less water he is already saving on his bill and tax!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't it daylight robbery PAP style? You tax pple for not converserving water but YOU dun incentivise them for converserving water!!

Dun forget PUB is a monopoly and must play fair to consumers.

The price of water will continue to rise, there is no other way for it not to happen. Here is the reason why, from an old thread I started.

Will NEWATER and Desalination Bankrupt S'pore?

I got sick and tired of the recent PAP propaganda about the 4th Newater plant coming online and how we are now using Newater for 30% of our water needs. I did some simple checking and from what I can see, these are the numbers I arrived at.

Daily water consumption in S'pore is about 800 million gallons.
We pay 3 sen per 1,000 gallons of water from Malaysia and than resell a portion to them at 50sen per 1,000 gallon. The PAP has never indicated what the is cost to us to purify the water to this stage. I would venture a guess that we are not losing any money selling it at 50 sen. Bare in mind that many of the pumping stations, pipes, and infrastructure for this source of water has now be depreciated over the last 40 years. There is no foreseable further need for infrastructure needed under this current source. Also, it is mentioned that the Malaysian water accounts for 50% of the daily S'pore water needs. Therefore, we can assume the fixed cost of water production is fully depreciated and that the variable cost under the old water arrangements with malaysia is very small at 3 sen per 1,000 gallons.

On the other hand, brand new Newater plants must be constructed, at a cost of at least $180 million per plant. We have 4 already, need a few more. Cost for all the Newater plants is likely to exceed $1 billion. Than we need Desalination plants. What the cost is, I have no idea. I am sure it will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Even worse, desalination plants require land, more than the Newater plants. The land set aside for the Newater plants and the Desalination plants have some sort of opportunity cost. These land could be more useful or productive if a factory were to be build on them. Currently, most of the land requirements under our current water system is located in Johor. i.e. the water source, the pumping stations, pipelines, etc. Only the filtration plant is located in S'pore and that occupies but a fraction of the land that all the Newater and Desalination plants will occupy.

In addition what is the cost to produce 1000 gallons of Newater versus 1000 gallons of water under the current system. My best estimate from what I can research is $2.75-$3 Sing. That is up to RM$7. Compare this with 50 sen that we are currently producing it for. Under this assumption, Newater will cost $1.2 million a day to produce, assuming that u only need to produce enough Newater (50%) to replace the Johor supply. That's $438 million a year. The production of Newater is further dependent on energy as electricity has to be used to run the plant, and create ultraviolet radiation. It also needs much more labour to operate it than the current system. These 2 factors will go up in the future, making Newater even more expensive.

The cost of desalinated water may be even higher than Newater. The reason is that desalinated water uses an evaporative reverse osmosis process and water has to be heated to gas (water vapour). This is energy intensive, and energy accounts for 1/3 the cost of desalinated water. My best estimate from all my research is that it cost USD$0.75 to produce 1 cubic meter of water using the desalination process. Or, about USD$3.41 for 1000 gallons. this is even more costly than Newater and it will only increase in the future with the cost of energy rising. And this number does not include the cost of construction for the desalination plants.

Given all these factors, we should have renewed the water agreement. Even if the Malaysians want 100 times more (RM$3) per thousand gallon, it will still be much more cheaper than Newater or desalination. Just the over $1 billion we could have saved in infrastruction construction would have been worth it. I see this as a big failure on the part of Con you. He let his ego interfere with this important issue, and ended up in a pissing match with Madhatter. In the end, WE are the losers.
 
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You don't understand. Newater purification technology is an entire industry onto itself. What better way to create jobs and businesses for the regime's cronies than that? The so-called tiff with Malaysia was merely a pretext. Remember that public pissing match which had resulted in then-PM Goh Chok Tong publicly drinking a bottle of Newater? Bottles of Newater in NDP goodie bags? Newater served to Ban Ki Moon?

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This is not true. The Newater and Desalination projects Only started to come on stream after the failure to negotiate a new water treaty with malaysia. Under the old water treaty, the PUB made much more money selling water to citizens. Today it costs them several hundreds times more to produce the water, but they cannot jack up their price by several hundred percent. There is a limit to what the consumer can pay. having said that, of course the govt. will see the Newater and desalination plants as yet another opportunity to make more money, and employ more of their cronies.
 
i think wat is scary is the fear mudland turn of the taps. so to be water self sufficient is good. but the thing is with pap rent seeking behaviour. they will try n squeeze the people more. if the gahmen was benevolent the benefits of th technology will flow on to the people. i mean we r exporting the technology to china etc.. n with the export dollars earned to be used to subsidies the peoples use. but tat will never happen under the pappies.
 
i think wat is scary is the fear mudland turn of the taps. so to be water self sufficient is good. but the thing is with pap rent seeking behaviour. they will try n squeeze the people more. if the gahmen was benevolent the benefits of th technology will flow on to the people. i mean we r exporting the technology to china etc.. n with the export dollars earned to be used to subsidies the peoples use. but tat will never happen under the pappies.

The Malaysians would not have turned off the taps if they had been treated with respect in the first place. Old Goat and Madhatter always had a rocky relationship. These 2 have a big ego. Malaysians want the money they would have gotten from us for the water sales. When the Malaysians proposed a pricing for the new water agreement, it was also to make up for the losses from selling the water so cheap to SIngapore for all those decades. The original water agreements were negotiated by the british on the behalf of Singapore and Malaysia, and hence did not reflect the value the Malaysians placed on it. The malaysians felt that they were played out in the original agreement. The Malaysians have already done their maths. They know it would have cost a lot more for SIngapore to be self sufficient in water thru recycling and desalination projects. It was much easier to accept their new terms, but the SIngapore negotiators treated the new terms as an insult. Old Goat flew up to KL to have it out with Madhatter personally, and got told to fuck off.

Water is a basic necessity and not a luxury. But the PAP charges you water as though you have a choice to use less of it. Its a money making venture for them. There is no such thing as a real subsidy. Not like in China and Malaysia where the cheapest petrol is subsidized. They had many ways to diversify the water source long ago. There was talk about getting the water in from the Riau islands. What happened to that? Whatever happened to water catchment systems on top of HDB flats? WHat happened to using brown water from the kitchen and laundry washers to flush the toilets?
 
LKY wanted the water supply contract with Johore to be extended beyond 2065. But Dr M said that he cannot commit as this will be decided by those in power during that time.
Dr M on the other hand wanted to increase water tariff sold to Singapore. But LKY wanted the increase to be linked to extension. So both go home empty handed.
 
LKY wanted the water supply contract with Johore to be extended beyond 2065. But Dr M said that he cannot commit as this will be decided by those in power during that time.
Dr M on the other hand wanted to increase water tariff sold to Singapore. But LKY wanted the increase to be linked to extension. So both go home empty handed.

I don't believe this is true. Mahathir can certainly sign the extension because previous agreements have to be respected by subsequent govts. This was what happened in the first water agreement, and also agreements governing the use of the causeway, air space, rail lines, etc. Subsequent govts of the day respected and honoured those agreements. Any disputes can be resolve through the mechanism put in place in the treaty.

Like I said, it was an ego thing.
 
hahaha....classic example of empty vessel....and a retard to boot...
rants and rants and thinks he knows better than everyone......
my new idol....lol.
 
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