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UOB's $181m suit over 'inflated housing loans'
- Thread starter krafty
- Start date
Why give a shit about quality postings when PAP IB has clones like sochi2014 aka xpo2015, krafty, Nelson_Tan and others that posts topics of high quality?
Really? Why didn't u pick on 'quality posters' like Nelson_Tan, leetahbar, Romagnum or sochi2014?? Your peers, clones?
Talk about derailing of threads, PAP IB clones are tops at this.
I am no legal expert at all, but it seems to me that UOB is saying that it was defrauded by this "conspiracy" of agents, buyers and developer to the tune of $181 million. well, wouldn't its first step be to report the matter to the commercial crimes division of the singapore police? Any fraud or fraud attempt is a matter for the criminal court and not for a civil case. Civil cases are used in matters or commercial and legal disputes, negligence, etc. where no crime was committed. The fact that UOB took the case to a civil court indicates that there was either no crime involved or the matter was investigated by the police and was determined to be non criminal in nature. This point already already puts fire to the the UOB assertion of a criminal conspiracy to commit fraud. They also indicated that the swindle violated MAS laws, well did they file a complain to the MAS? Ravi is surprisingly silent on this point. If the MAS investigated this complain and found that Lippo is at fault, you can expect UOB lawyers to trumpet this fact. But no news from MAS on this.
In singapore civil court, you must prove damages and show how you arrived at this $181 million figure. This is not the American court system whereby as you claim, you sue for maximum amounts and then negotiate to a lesser amount. I believe that Lippo aka Mochtar Riady can probably buy the Wees twice over. They don't need a banking licence in singapore, as they are making so much money on their residential and commercial property developments. A banking license now is a millstone around the neck. the brick and mortar bank branch and deposit taking system is mostly a money losing proposition. banks make very little profit if any on doing mortgages for clients or running their savings or current accounts. Banks are much more profitable servicing wealth management clients. Lippo is smart not to get a banking license. The wees have a close political connection with the Lees, that is the only reason i can think off for the lawsuit to proceed. They are hoping the Lee Con You or his son will invoke the kangaroo court system to whack the riady's like they used the kangaroo court to whack Allan Ng many years ago.
U fuckers are interrupting my thought process and research into this case.
You are wrong. The criminal courts cannot help UOB get the money back. UOB needs to sue (and sue a big enough fish, thus the developer) to get the 180 million back.
If the criminal court finds that a fraud was indeed committed, then UOB uses that judgment of a fraudulent finding to sue for damages in the civil court. In this case, they are skipping the first step completely. A very risky play.
Scintillating discourse on this.
Not true. You need to prove different things. Also different burden of proof.
Criminal cases can take up to 6 years to get to court.
Criminal cases can take up to 6 years to get to court.
james riady was barred from entering the u.s. under the bush admin from 2001 to 2008 for "conspiracy to defraud the united states." in 2009, under a new administration, he was allowed back in under certain conditions, but he seemed to have gone beyond his limits under those visitor visas....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/04/AR2010010403106.html
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Not sure about American system but I would still go for the full $181M as my starting shot and negotiate from there. UOB lawyer is an experienced SC and he knows what he is doing. I am not a lawyer (perhaps a lawyer here might give their take of the situation) but what if they are saying that the initial agreement was null and void as the information provided was not correct. For example I paid $100M for a Picasso but later discovered that it is a fake. I have every right to ask for my money back and in such cases, Sotheby will refund the money.
Legal authorities might launch their own investigation down the road.
No idea how much Riadys are worth compared to Wees but as much as they try to buy influence they do not have good reputation. And they badly want to be bankers which they are not as Lippo Bank went up in smoke during Ton Yum meltdown. Meanwhile Wees control UOB with mkt cap close to $40B!
Legal authorities might launch their own investigation down the road.
No idea how much Riadys are worth compared to Wees but as much as they try to buy influence they do not have good reputation. And they badly want to be bankers which they are not as Lippo Bank went up in smoke during Ton Yum meltdown. Meanwhile Wees control UOB with mkt cap close to $40B!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_chain
Sir, while doing your Research , please Do one on The Food Chain For this Whole Conspiracy Story ???
Thank you Sir !!!
So Far Many Players are left out :
a) the lawyers acting for the Parties in the Purchase / Sales / Banks
b) the Valuers to the 38 Units normally more than One firm involved
c) The Bank's Credit Marketing Mgrs / Officers .
d) The Banks Approving Mgrs.
e) ERA Group ( it has a Cut to the Agt comms also ) whether it was by passed
f) The most Senior Officer signing off the Loan Prosposal
Papsmearer;2 In singapore civil court said:
Interesting case indeed. Such incidents are common in 3rd world countries where the person having the final say wrt the loan taking at least 5% commission. Both parties have strong connection to MIWs.
Trust me, UOB is not concerned about the time because Lippo is so big, they cannot run road. They are too established a real estate market player and singapore has proven very profitable to them. They can always come after Lippo 10 years from now, but the money is there for them if they win judgement. If you are a Wee, and so close to Old Fart, any criminal cases will be expedited for you, guaranteed, it wouldn't take 6 years. 6 months, maybe. In fact, the preliminary findings of the attorney general will already be leaked to the Wees. I.E. got case for fraud or not. If got case and AG office want to proceed with criminal trial, it will be a fast one because the Wees are super elites and super white horses. They would simply wait for the criminal case to finish, and for Lippo to be found guilty of fraud and conspiracy to defraud. After that, going to the civil court for damages is a slam dunk. But that did not happen in this case. I suspect they were already told by AG that there is no criminal case here and no fraud case. Hence they went the civil way. But if the AG chambers decline to press criminal charges, (therefore no fraud committed) then how strong can their civil case be? That's just my understanding, but I am not a lawyer by training.
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James Riady has no problems getting into the US now. His kids go to school in the LA area and he visits them all the time as well as for their graduation.
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