TOC: Why report on Viswa Sadasivan’s speech was removed from TOC

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

ouch...:D


82) OriginalResonance on August 30th, 2009 6.15 pm

Voila! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it’s my very good honour to meet him and you may call him Viswa.

For those looking for a summary, here it is

"Its is true that I spoke against fishing as recreation sport as it is cruel and inhumane. However how I spend my holidays fishing off the Great Barrier Reef is my perogative and I make no apologies for it. I fish to keep my sanity in a harsh and demanding environment. I do not consider my form of fishing as recreation but therapeutic and essential. I also follow the Chesire House rules that provide for catch and release where the fish is put in water in a quick humane manner. I am also told that fish do not sense pain as much as humans do.

Thank for spending time reading my comments"

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

do you actually expect to see a local 'political messiah' in the immediate future...especially from an NMP??...the fact that Viswa made such a poignant passionate maiden speech/motion in parliament should perhaps be seen as a start to something better...yes he appears to have made a mistake but i still think he deserves to be cut some slack...for now at least...

If everybody adopts a defensive posture to guard against the Sword Of Damocles hanging over one's head in the form of a Lee Kuan Yew lawsuit, then please save the layamn at large the disappointments.

 

[scroobal]

I understand that Chatnam House rules did not apply to the TOC chap on the condition that article was seen by Viswa prior to publication. Pointless talking about Chatnam House rules. There was an agreement but the parties had different interpretation to it.

I am with you that GMS is putting much weight on TOC and journalist integrity.

Dear GMS

Context , context, Chatnam House rules to preserve annoyminity and allow free debate and discussion.

 

[scroobal]

This is great and appropriate.

82) OriginalResonance on August 30th, 2009 6.15 pm

Voila! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it’s my very good honour to meet him and you may call him Viswa.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

The NMP is a sham. We all know it so why honour it presence and those that choose to partake in it. There is no honour in walking in through the back door or the side door. The fact that anyone true to democracy even accepts such a role deserves no honour. It has been seen that the pappies don't take the NMPs seriously so why dishonour oneself and all that democracy stands for by being a backdoor entrant.

 

[scroobal]

Note that this is purely speculative. Just had tea with couple of "observers" over this affair. I did mention about the rumours of kite flying a few days ago in this forum and Viswa also made mention of it in his response to TOC message board.

Apparently he draws the majority of income from civil service and GLC work. He has also got recommendations from ex-ISD director in his website. The word is that old man was not told.

Looks like our doe eyed chap was set-up without he realising it. Poor bloke. They think that he has realised what is going on and is now back tracking and pissed.

I now trying to determine who acted as his referees for Harvard as his results are not flash by any means. It will help to paint the picture.

The most impt question is what are the motives and purpose of kite flying. Was it to bring the people together. Was it to signal gto the Chinese majority that we had to join hands. Was it to impress upon our new citizens we were on the right track 50 years ago and now we needed to realign again.

Certainly explains why a Professional Spin Doctor failed his own 101 course.

Interesting......................

to me once the article went online the dye was cast...the article was and still is in the domain of cyberspace as can be seen from this very thread itself, so what is the practical significance of TOC's subsequent removal?? ...

instead of requesting for the article to be removed from TOC viswa should have just placed on record the agreement between him and TOC(which he has done) and then gone on to explain in detail where he took issue with TOC's article(he seems to have done this to some extent in his request and latest comment to TOC)...

i must say that for an experienced media practitioner i am surprised at viswa's somewhat inept handling of this matter...moreover TOC's article in question looked pretty mild to me apart from viswa's apparent attack on 154(which should not be a problem) so i don't know why he had to react in such an antsy manner notwithstanding chatham house rules and his agreement with TOC...surely he would have recorded the entire session at LKY school for his own protection and reference...

egg on both viswa and TOC's faces this time round...hope they both learn from this episode...however i think the public should perhaps cut viswa some slack as well...i take him at face value until i see otherwise...and i see a chap who appears to have his heart in the right place and is prepared to put his toe in the 'tricky and dangerous waters' of the local political arena but only to the extent that he is comfortable with...which is his prerogative...so perhaps the public should temper its high expectations and see him for he is...an NMP, no more and no less...

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

I would pick on two points. Firstly what he stated in the TOC article which he subsequently wanted withdrawn and secondly an impression of a sharp cookie at the event of Visawan and his behavior (reducted). Secondly the most important takeaway from the TOC article subsequently retracted. Again SPECULATION of the nth degree.....but something you might gently ask abt and see the answers you get seeing that I probably can't hear the sort of whispers u hear

"He made it clear many times during his talk that he is pro-establishment and a supporter of the PAP. But he emphasised that the PAP had to change its policies because the trust between the people and the government has been broken, and it has to be repaired before it's too late. In fact, he gave distinct impression that he was exhorting - almost pleading - with the government/ PAP to heed his call. As though he knew that what he said was going to be reported back to the PAP. "


" Another student asked about conflicting signals from the government about the new media. He replies with belief that the government is not homogeneous. He believes that some ministers are in touch with the ground while others could be relying on feedback that may not be truthful. “Those who may be sanitizing the feedback [to the ministers] are doing a gross injustice. Many [ministers] are good people with good intentions who want to do good for this country… we shouldn’t begrudge that.” He adds that there is increasing debate within the leadership and more efforts to influence through the new media. "

The timing before the launch of Men in White was almost guaranteeded to raise LKY's blood in parliament. I suspect that if was almost any other time, he might have replied without coming down so hard......again pure speculation.

Suffice it to say no one has the power within the Opposition to push people out to challenge the party, by definition has to be someone within the ruling party, and Tan Kin Lian and Him all coming out within almost a year ? Coincidence or someone senior within the party pushing from outside for reform within the party much to dominated by old man and son. ?




Locke

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Viswa was head og the garment's feedback unit. He was supposed to be a future MP. After all these and you mean lky doesn't know who Viswa is???

All this talk about renewal or fight formwithin has been going on for donkey years.

ALl these pappies are pappies because at least 95% of them want an easy way in life. Forget about idealism or working for the people. In fact even forget about democracy altogether.

I am amazed that you people still believe that shit can turn into gold.

They have to be voted out. It is as simple as that. If they want to secure a rice bowl then they toe the line. If they believe in democracy then they need to want to work for the people first and themselves second. There are very few.

Viswa has always relied on the garment sectors for his living. Nothing has changed. In fact, with the NMP he is earning even more.

Let's leave this guy alone for a while and let's see what he does.

Let's not give him another heart attack.

 

[Perspective]

do you actually expect to see a local 'political messiah' in the immediate future...especially from an NMP??...the fact that Viswa made such a poignant passionate maiden speech/motion in parliament should perhaps be seen as a start to something better...yes he appears to have made a mistake but i still think he deserves to be cut some slack...for now at least...

NMPs and non partisans will never be "messiahs" to deliver people away from PAP's clutches - because they will never contest against the PAP.

 

[scroobal]

Will come back on this. Meeting the pundits, the obeservers, etc of all places at a Prata Shop close to the place of his latest endeavour.

The latest is that it is similar to the white elephant debacle over the dormant MRT station.

My sense is that Viswa is the genuine article who has identified the PAP with the country that he sees no other scenario. He is sincere but have taken on something that is beyond his capacity. I am however certain that the comprehensive laundry list of issues and the motion that he moved in parliament was an idea that was planted by someone else for one of 2 reasons as listed below;

(a) to kick start the NMP scheme which has performed badly after the first batch and the desire to add an air of credibility under new parliamentary electroral related changes. Siew was too much of a left field.

(b) he was used by the PAP ( i am sure he did not realise it ) to launch a trial balloon carrying the laundry list to determine what issues that concern the people. Obviously PAP MPs can't raise these and they have lost Tan Cheng Bock Tan Soo Khoon. And someone forgot to tell the old man. I tend to see (b) as for the first time, none of the media foillowed up. Never seen anything like this before in all these years. Viswa's reactions and reply to TOC netizens tend to support this point.

I however do expect our resident mamasan of Toa Payoh and Head of Politics and Psychology, Dr Chua to have an opinion this Saturday as the days would have allowed for a coherent position to be taken.

The notion that only somone within or close to PAP forming a 2nd party has been recurring in Intelligentsia for over 2 decades. I believe Porfiro is one such believer. A smiliar notion is that the 2nd party will only emerge from a division within PAP. All these are based that no quality opposition with critical mass will emerge as no part of the country's intelligentsia will be involved in opposition politics even if setting up a new party.

The only other hope is retirees who no longer need a link to the establishment is a possiblity. Its very clear that no business or corporate individual running his own company will be involved as there are major touch points with govt initiatives, GLCs etc that would be detrimental to their business.

Dear Scroobal

I would pick on two points. Firstly what he stated in the TOC article which he subsequently wanted withdrawn and secondly an impression of a sharp cookie at the event of Visawan and his behavior (reducted). Secondly the most important takeaway from the TOC article subsequently retracted. Again SPECULATION of the nth degree.....but something you might gently ask abt and see the answers you get seeing that I probably can't hear the sort of whispers u hear

"He made it clear many times during his talk that he is pro-establishment and a supporter of the PAP. But he emphasised that the PAP had to change its policies because the trust between the people and the government has been broken, and it has to be repaired before it's too late. In fact, he gave distinct impression that he was exhorting - almost pleading - with the government/ PAP to heed his call. As though he knew that what he said was going to be reported back to the PAP. "


" Another student asked about conflicting signals from the government about the new media. He replies with belief that the government is not homogeneous. He believes that some ministers are in touch with the ground while others could be relying on feedback that may not be truthful. “Those who may be sanitizing the feedback [to the ministers] are doing a gross injustice. Many [ministers] are good people with good intentions who want to do good for this country… we shouldn’t begrudge that.” He adds that there is increasing debate within the leadership and more efforts to influence through the new media. "

The timing before the launch of Men in White was almost guaranteeded to raise LKY's blood in parliament. I suspect that if was almost any other time, he might have replied without coming down so hard......again pure speculation.

Suffice it to say no one has the power within the Opposition to push people out to challenge the party, by definition has to be someone within the ruling party, and Tan Kin Lian and Him all coming out within almost a year ? Coincidence or someone senior within the party pushing from outside for reform within the party much to dominated by old man and son. ?




Locke

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Aiyah! To cut a long story short -everyone is waiting for the old man to die or be bedridden or even senile.

But waiting for what?

I don't envision anything less than another tyrant but run by a group of so-called pappy dissidents. However, the military, the police, the ISD are all under old man's son and his buddies. It's the same old thing - all got no balls but only interested in filling up their bank accounts to ridiculous amounts all in the name of helping the citizens.

If they want to do it they have to do it just before the next elections. Throw the pappies into disarray and end it there and then. Form another party and fight the elections like true men of stature.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

The notion that only somone within or close to PAP forming a 2nd party has been recurring in Intelligentsia for over 2 decades. I believe Porfiro is one such believer. A smiliar notion is that the 2nd party will only emerge from a division within PAP. All these are based that no quality opposition with critical mass will emerge as no part of the country's intelligentsia will be involved in opposition politics even if setting up a new party.

The only other hope is retirees who no longer need a link to the establishment is a possiblity. Its very clear that no business or corporate individual running his own company will be involved as there are major touch points with govt initiatives, GLCs etc that would be detrimental to their business.

Dear Scroobal,

Interesting point. For some time now, we have been making certain observations. Covert operations from PAP has always been on going since they lost the first seat to JBJ back in 1981.

The idea is this, play both sides of the cards. Head they win, tail, they are still in control. This means that they need their own people to infiltrate into opposition parties so that even in the event that public opinion turns against PAP and they happen to lose some seats, rest assure that they may just be still in control of the level of attacks these "opposition MPs" will launch against them.

Of course, the enlarged NMP scheme is also an experiment carried out to sell the idea that we don't even need opposition to have "democracy" or good debate in parliament.

According to some sources, this covert effort has been stepped up and most probably we will be seeing "more credible people" whose profiles are more likely to be pro-establishment rather than opposition politicians participating in the next elections.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

You want to know what is a clear covert operation - TOC.

3 years ago, the PAP indicated they will enter the Cyberspace to counter what is bandied about. YPAP in the Internet has been existence since 1996 so it can't be that. The only entity that is coherent, broadbased is TOC and stands out like a sore thumb. Its certainly is a success. Alex Au, Lucky Tan and other similar blogs are usually incidental, topical as they have no resources to do a comprehensive job. SBF will not resonate with 90% of the public because of the massive crap from racists to plain idiots having bun fights over silly things so it is not a threat and half the country is afraid of their own shadow and are scared to come into this forum. Like the SPH, TOC is virtually now a monopoly in the Singapore Political cyberspace. Its such a success as the individuals running it are doe eyed, nationalistic and genuine and certainly naive. I am sure any intelligent person would have realised that the PAP was not going to employ nerds with multiple clone nicks to make counter arguments in cyberspace. These are not novel and new approaches. Western societies have funded civic organsiations and NGOs for the same purpose.

Ever see a single article from TOC that demands answers to glaring national issues. Its always about balance. Balance is good if you are in a truly democratic society. Ever see them question why racial quotas in HDB are worth impacting the national psyche. Ever seen them argue that GRC is manifestly wrong in a democracy and track record has shown that non-minority candidates have been elected by chinese majority. I have been to Kampung Glam and I can tell you Jaffna Tamils (ceylonese) can't be found there but in East Coast where their temple is but Raja, a Jaffna Tamil was elected numerous times in Kg Glam and they love him to death. Its predominently a lower income Chinese and Malay ward with 95% who have little appreciation of Raja penmanship.

With the success of TOC, it time to get doe eyed chaps to become NMPs. They honestly thing they going to make a change. Siew tried and he failed. Viswa was shot down spectaculary - his arguments deemed "false" and "flawed" and he wants to go back and - "i feel i want to step back and observe and reflect on the response from all fronts to my speech in Parliament. It is very important to maintain clarity - of content and intent - when something as significant happens, especially when you happen"

Only 4 NMPs did well - Chia Shi Teck, Siew Kum Hong Walter Woon and Kanwaljit Soin. The latter 2 spoke on social issues ( not political) effectively and they certainly the establishment intelligentsia and probably knew the markers. Siew did not know the markers and he went on to make a ground survey over the death of an MP and the ward's representation. Its was obvious after Chia, that NMP terms were amended to clearly reflect industry, sector and social issues.

When Goh laid down the "Out of bounds" doctrine followed by the Knuckeduster comment by the old man over Catherine Tan , Viswa must have been was busy cajoling his reservist battalion to get the first of his 3 Best Unit Awards. That doctrine still holds. There has been no comment from the PAP that it has been diluted or set aside. What made Viswa think that a non-elected person has the power or mandate to take on political issues of national interest. Truly doe eyed.

PAP did tremendously well in its first 25 years but last 25 years has been spent moving away from democracy, manipulating people and society and making absolute fools of the gullible. When I saw the letter from Andrew to Viswa, I knew the circle had been completed and both of them clearly had no clue. Even an New Paper Intern would have known what can go out there.

The fence sitters will ask for evidence - well if it walks and quacks like a duck, it cannot be chicken rice.

Dear Scroobal,

Interesting point. For some time now, we have been making certain observations. Covert operations from PAP has always been on going since they lost the first seat to JBJ back in 1981.

The idea is this, play both sides of the cards. Head they win, tail, they are still in control. This means that they need their own people to infiltrate into opposition parties so that even in the event that public opinion turns against PAP and they happen to lose some seats, rest assure that they may just be still in control of the level of attacks these "opposition MPs" will launch against them.

Of course, the enlarged NMP scheme is also an experiment carried out to sell the idea that we don't even need opposition to have "democracy" or good debate in parliament.

According to some sources, this covert effort has been stepped up and most probably we will be seeing "more credible people" whose profiles are more likely to be pro-establishment rather than opposition politicians participating in the next elections.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Blue6]

NMPs and non partisans will never be "messiahs" to deliver people away from PAP's clutches - because they will never contest against the PAP.

Are you maybe a wee bit too hasty in determining that the opportunity savvy and party conformists are not non-mutually exclusive entities in essence in a future scenario of a leadership lacking in trenchancy as I read you?

 

[Perspective]

Are you maybe a wee bit too hasty in determining that the opportunity savvy and party conformists are not non-mutually exclusive entities in essence in a future scenario of a leadership lacking in trenchancy as I read you?

You missed the point. My post obviously stated the role, not the people who take the role then move on to other roles.

 

[Blue6]

You missed the point. My post obviously stated the role, not the people who take the role then move on to other roles.

Then we are both playing blindfold ping pong. Too much reliance on precedents of history, we will never get to see missed opportunities and possibilities in the future turns of events.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

91) Peter Sellers on August 30th, 2009 7.58 pm The question, Viswa, is this: are you saying the things you talked about at the LKY School of Public Policy were libelous?

What were these things that were discussed in an academic setting but cannot be discussed with other Singaporeans?

Why did you take the route of asking Andrew to take down the article, rather than pointing out the inaccuracies in the original article?

Is the libelous nature of the government not something worth speaking out against, or is it not an NMP’s job to “go that far”?

Many questions.
97) Voice of Concern on August 30th, 2009 8.42 pm I have been following this site ever since Viswa’s maiden speech happened in Parliament. While I found the comments that ensued lively, interesting and revealing, I do feel that it has gotten too caught in black or white, this or that. As someone put it earlier, Viswa is not the voice of opposition, as much as we would like to believe he is. At best, he is someone who is in a position to voice his concerns on where Singapore is going. Thus far he has demonstrated the courage of conviction to do that. He is also someone who appears to be very in touch with the ground and so as he expresses his views, he also attempts to convey the dissatisfactions and concerns of the others on the ground.
In this regard I do feel he is an ideal candidate for NMP. I also feel that instead of swinging from one extreme to the other, we could as a citizens’ forum in cyber space, appreciate the greyness of this situation. For while it is the grey zone that is the most difficult to exist and operate in, it is here that much meaningful growth and change could happen. And sometimes that change does take time to happen. Let’s not be impatient and overly emotional. Viswa has thrown the pebble into the water – let’s wait and watch. And give him our support. Let’s not kill the goose that lays the golden egg!
98) haharare on August 30th, 2009 8.47 pm Dear Viswa,

Tsk Tsk, Only a few weeks into your NMP stint and you have come up with so many provisos, qualifications and exceptions… which i read as just plain excuses.

My My …what will come of the rest of your stint? I shudder to think that it will be no different from the nameless and faceless NMPs and PAP MPs who are quite contented to collect their chks at the end of the month and show up occasionally for the give-angpows-to-the- old session and the token feel good speeches..

The only way you can save yourself from further indignity and total loss of credibity is to resign as an NMP. As you said, dead heros are of no use. Where I am concerned you are now basically “dead” in the water. You have no more credibility with the on-line media and the establishment already detests you. Whatever you say and do from now on will be meet with cynicism and I dare say contempt even, from now on.

You tried to toe the fine line to get the best of both worlds. Sorry friend, this is the real world and you need to decide whre you are. Unfortunately you have tripped badly with your prevarications.. Best you resign and redeem yourself. When the time is right, you can come back and fight another day. And when you do, take a firm position and stay with it.
105) JW on August 30th, 2009 9.59 pm Open letter to Mr. Viswa

Dear Viswa,

Only a fool would not realize that the PAP government is a totalitarian regime that pretends to be a democratic government. The hallmarks of a democracy are a free-press, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly, unbiased judiciary. All of these are missing in the PAP government. After 40 years of “nation-building”, about 40% of the citizens of Singapore are just above the poverty line.

In a word the PAP government is a complete failure.

The only way for you to redeem yourself after this saga is to i) resign your position as an NMP ii) join an opposition party (RP, SDP or as an independent) and stand against a PAP candidate in the coming general election.

Being an NMP only contributes to the machinations of the PAP into bluffing the free-world that Singapore is a democratic country.

There is no point in speaking in LKY School of Public Policy or any of the PAP think-tanks because they are faithful dogs who listen to the old man’s voice and bidding.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

108) modern malay/indian/chinese pahlawan on August 30th, 2009 10.14 pm mr viswa sadasivan is taken in by PAP and LKY, all against one and that is not what he wanted. we felt sorry for you as we understand what will happen to you and your entire family if you take further step against PAP and LKY. you will be the next Vivian Balakrishnan that you must prove all singaporeans it is wrong and you shall stand in opposition side and fight for us as you give your words and we will give our hands to hold you along with us or you can sit together with Ms Vivien,Mr Raymong Lim,and mr Walter Woon and regret of your decision you made. don’t be surprise as you sit in PAP side and we all singaporeans vote totally on opposition and where do you think you will be sit next?LKY will ask you to go home nest as he already don’t need you coz you are the threat to LKY and LKY fear all singaporeans will listen to you and stand against PAP. with or with you mr viswa sadasivan we will stand for our rights and vote PAP OUT!!!!!

you have open the eyes of all singaporeans and even you turn your back on us we will still go on and vote PAP OUT!!!!! this is a PROMISES to our land and a promise that we will we hold till the next election!!!

viswa sadasivan. if you are strong enough stand with us and if you need us to stand by your side during a speech on public and to stand by your side in any vote that you want, we will give it!! you must be wondering how many of us is here to stand by your side as we are just bunch of 10 to 30singaporeans maybe and would not take the risk. you are totally wrong!!!

we didn’t really want to mention yet our amount of singaporeans stand for opposition and will vote the opposition. we just give you a figure and you do your maths. we are reaching 7,530. what will you think the amount will be in the next election to come? we too have family and children we too have fear to go against LKY AND PAP but how long are we going to live in this fear??!!!! enough is enough!!!!!! we are no fools. we are voting PAP out!!!
111) RW on August 30th, 2009 10.46 pm I think Viswa understands new media pretty well.

The cardinal rule is to always engage and not leave things to gossip, speculation and half-truths. People may agree/disagree with him. But at least he has clarified his stance, taking people’s comments into consideration.

~~

Actually, someone asked a good question.. what is the difference between
saying something in a room and something in the media (online or mainstream)?

i guess when you say something in a room, you are yourself, expressing an opinion. There will be discussion but at a smaller scale. When you are speaking in the media, you are speaking to a wider audience and that influence people. By then, you are in the political realm of debating ideas, pushing agendas, etc and you will have multiple considerations about people, how the message is perceived etc.

Speaking in a room has its benefits. It removes all the political considerations and allows speaker to be more free in his speech. If he fumbles, only 50 hears it. Very little harm done. So he can be more daring with it.

And for him, he gets to testbed his ideas. Esp if it’s going to be controversial, most people will first discuss and test ideas with a smaller grp before going ‘live’. It’s equivalent to ‘prototyping’ in some industry.

Now engaging a larger public will mean he has more people to consider and he has to be mindful of how the message is being portrayed. Being politician means you have to be politically correct and take these considerations into account. (and that is why they have very full-proof, well thought out answers like his comment).

I think they can choose which level they wish to engage in, in a micro level or a macro level, depending on their preference, circumstance and purpose. If they wish to talk about their opinions to friends, families, a small group of people, they should be able to choose that.

And if it helps in strengthening their ideas before going ‘live’, isn’t that good?
112) man on August 30th, 2009 10.52 pm it is not difficult to give a good speech in parliament. problem is he became uncertain about where he stand when his speech was challenged by MM. His response to MM “chiding” was that he gave a neutral response that people are allowed to have different views which seems like he is toeing along party line. If he is not prepared to defend his arguments, then he should not have made those arguments in the first place and result in all these unnecessary debate. And to say that this is part of a democratic process is an outright hypocritical excuse.

128) RED-man on August 31st, 2009 3.47 am I have surprise that many here had said that they praised Mr. V for his speech the parliment, while I remember clearly that most of the commenter seem to believe it is a stage up by the PAP. To show there is a opposition voice and NMP system works, many said.

To be fair, I do agree that TOC had Misrepresented Mr. V parliment speech in the way that lead people to think it is a stage-up. To say TOC present the previous articles as it is. Well, carefully Reading this articles you would see what TOC want most of us to see now.

129) RED-man on August 31st, 2009 3.53 am There are so many clones here I have noticed, most writting come from a single character. I hope TOC has not become a self script, self cast and self direct website.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You want to know what is a clear covert operation - TOC.

3 years ago, the PAP indicated they will enter the Cyberspace to counter what is bandied about. YPAP in the Internet has been existence since 1996 so it can't be that. The only entity that is coherent, broadbased is TOC and stands out like a sore thumb. Its certainly is a success. Alex Au, Lucky Tan and other similar blogs are usually incidental, topical as they have no resources to do a comprehensive job.

Dear Scroobal,

It is an interesting perspective. But how do they control TOC? I mean, if you want a covert ops in media, then some form of control must be in place.

Yes, the timing of the formation of TOC and PAP's announcement of marching into the cyberspace is too much of an coincidence. And so far, the positioning of TOC is pretty interesting. I know Andrew is one of the key person that pushed for the formation of TOC but I didn't really know how the positioning is being conceived initially.

The Choo Zhengxi incident has made a remarkable impression on the "PAP connections" but there are still insufficient evidence so far to clearly point to the covert nature at all.

On the other hand, we have a "rivalry site" Wayangparty.com which is now renamed to Termasek Review. Wayangparty.com is less open so far where most of the key players are not known in public. However, its positioning is far from favorable to PAP and established opposition like WP.

Although there are some bickering between Wayangparty people and me but it seems that they are more open now. They have even covered my Minibond speeches and posted some translated articles of mine on their site. Wayangparty has announced the departure of its original creator but the people behind this website is still unknown. Is there a third force, beside the established opposition and ruling parties, wanting to play a role in the socio-media-political sphere?

Interesting time indeed.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

134) budamax1952 on August 31st, 2009 9.06 am There was one who wanted 10,000 votes before even he will stand for the people
Next came the wishy-washy, namby pamby tamby
People, we will see quite a few who want to cut the cake and eat it too
Pretenders, half-hearted, ineffective, actors, lime-light seekers and spineless
Fortunately we have our true Lion Dr. Chee Soon Juan
Good thing about this affair is that people will wisen up
We will be clear who will be our future leaders and the chaff will be weeded out
143) mr. mister on August 31st, 2009 11.06 am To me, VS is just a shrewd person who utilised the age old ploy of leveraging on people’s empathy to gain political mileage.

By raising the inert concerns of the citizens during his speech, he struck a universal cord that alarmed the press and thus a national coverage with a good level of sensationalisation. He is surely a recognised figure now.

With the dust settled and a lashing from the old man, he now demands to have his published speech removed, possibly for fear of further backlash.

By doing so, he may have won the hearts of the regime. But judging from the reactions here, his action is definitely seen as repugnant. He has certainly lost his credibility and his support from the ppl down his term will surely be a waning one.
144) theforgottongeneration on August 31st, 2009 11.12 am This episode clearly sums up the NMP concept – the appointed can gives the best speech in the whole of history, makes hell of noises, be seen as a hero on either side of the argument, etc.. but when the crunch comes, they are constitutionally & individually empty. All for a fat pay to add that is from public funds. Uniquely Singapore!

As such, I still question the NMP concept, the need to completely replace the old batch of NMPs and to increase the nos. of NMPs this time round. If parliament has excess budget, I think many can give alternate suggestions on how to use the $$ more meaningfully.
150) blackfeline on August 31st, 2009 11.35 am at best he is an idealist…at worst he is just an opportunist! You are not preserving yourself..I put it to you that you are preserving your business! I am waiting for you to prove us wrong! No more rhetorical speeches pls… get on with the real issues Mr. Viswa!
152) OriginalResonance on August 31st, 2009 11.49 am There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn’t there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you and you turned to the gahman. They promised you order, they promised you peace, and all they demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. LOL
159) Kia Si Kai Loong of the Hoongi on August 31st, 2009 1.34 pm Viswa,

why did you choose to voice up what you did after being an NMP?

I mean, the Hong Lim park is available everyday for you to talk to the people.

Why did you voice up after asked to voice up to give NMP speech and not before?

I mean, to voice up does not require one to be an NMP.

Why ask to retract your article after it was published?

If you can, pls reply to the many questions that people may be interested in as well.
162) anon on August 31st, 2009 2.12 pm I think LKY has performed a slight of hand here with regards to equality and the protection of “indigineous malays.” Equality doesnt entail a kindergarten definition of “identical treatment.” I mean thats like saying women who want gender equality want to be treated exactly like guys. I mean if i really want to bring that argument to its ridiculous conclusion the sexes might as well share toilets and we might as well have standing urinals for all. But they cant so we cant have gender “equality”? Rubbish thats not what equality means.

Equality in terms of a multiracial society , CAN and sometimes SHOULD entail some kind of affirmative action for minorities in the early stages of a nation, so that minorities who are disadvantaged by numbers can have an EQUAL footing. that it qualified equality.

dragging in the malay community and the race card seemed a little underhanded. Also i really didnt get LKY’s comment about Indians not knowing equality cos of the caste system. Surely being the man who claimed to have performed some kind of alchemy on this country and turned shit into gold, he must be aware that his country’s Indians……

a) Are not all Hindus
b) The Hindus here do not subscribe to the caste system, and have developed a very separate Historical identity from other parts of India and South India in which caste consciousness has remained in many forms due to many specific reasons.

171) prettyplace on August 31st, 2009 4.32 pm The one thing Viswa has made clear is that NMPs do not and cannot represent THE PEOPLE.

Intentional or not, I don’t know and I don’t care. But it is evident.
It is time for people to understand this and move on to vote wisely in the next election.