The situation in Sweden is a perfect classic example why we need more oppositions in the govt

[vamjok]

Let's see how things are at the end of the year. I have bookmarked your post for future reference.

Most importantly, let's just hope for the best. Some of us have entertained each other since the Delphi era. Hope everyone and their family is healthy and safe in this dark period.

 

[mojito]

Nothing wrong with Swedish model at all. They are taking one hit rather than spreading it out and collapsing the economy in the process.

The total number dead is going to rise in all countries because the virus is already endemic in the population. We are seeing infection rates in excess of 20% to 30% in many densely populated communities and the idea that we can somehow stamp out the virus is pie-in-the-sky stuff.

Why indulge in wishful thinking when the inevitable result is just a matter of time. The problem nowadays is that politics gets in the way of science.

May be they will do ugly u turn like Britain when the royals get covid.

 

[Leongsam]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMms2009984

Introduction

In late March, Zoran Lasic, an interventional cardiologist at Jamaica Hospital Medical Center and Lenox Hill Hospital in New York, was finishing afternoon clinic when he was approached by a nurse colleague seeking his advice. Her husband — a 56-year-old whose father died of sudden cardiac arrest at 55 — had been feeling chest pressure. The pressure radiated down his arms and occasionally to his neck and, the previous day, had been accompanied by dyspnea and diaphoresis, making him worried enough to call an ambulance. The emergency medical technicians did an electrocardiogram, said it looked OK, and told him to call his primary care doctor. He did, and he was advised that given New York’s Covid-19 outbreak, it was not a good time to go to the hospital. Now, a day later, his colleague asked Lasic, what should they do?

Nearly apoplectic, Lasic advised urgent coronary angiography, which he performed a few hours later. The man had a thrombus extending from his proximal-to-midleft anterior descending artery and became hemodynamically unstable during the procedure. Nevertheless, revascularization was successful, and he was discharged the following day with preserved left ventricular function. Lasic, describing a precipitous decline across the New York region in patients presenting with acute coronary syndromes, worries that others won’t be so lucky. “I think the toll on non-Covid patients will be much greater than Covid deaths,” he said.

As the coronavirus pandemic focuses medical attention on treating affected patients and protecting others from infection, how do we best care for people with non–Covid-related disease? For some, new risks may warrant reconsideration of usual standards of care. For others, the need to protect caregivers and preserve critical care capacity may factor into decisions. And for everyone, radical transformation of the health care system will affect our ability to maintain high-quality care. As Michael Grossbard, chief of hematology at New York University’s Langone Hospital, told me, “Our practice of medicine has changed more in 1 week than in my previous 28 years combined.”

 

[vamjok]

1. A vaccine is at least 18 month away (assuming it ever arrives) and that is for approval to be granted. It will then take another 6 months to a year to ramp up production. We cannot shut down a country for 2 years and then expect everything to start working again at the flip of a switch. The devastation from almost no economic activity will be catastrophic.

2. The hospitals are not overloaded and there is plenty of spare capacity in Sweden and my guess is in Singapore as well. The main issue was ventilators but there are now excess ventilators in most countries that are keeping track of the stock. Italy's health care system is a separate issue and if you want to discuss that we can do it in a separate thread.

3. I have no quarrel with rules regarding social distancing and hygiene measures. I am speaking out against the necessity to shut down an economy that will cause more deaths from other factors than from Covid-19. Cancer specialists in the UK are reporting that there will be up to 150,000 early deaths because cancer patients are not getting their treatment as chemo sessions and operations have been put on hold. The virus is not going to die out by itself because there will always be carriers. The virus is so widespread already that hoping it will die out like SARS1 is just wishful thinking. However if enough people have already been infected these carriers will no longer cause the same amount of damage.

Finally I have to point out yet again that the mortality rate is nowhere near the figures published initially which ranged from 2.3% to 3.5%. In Singapore the figure is around 0.05%. Why it is so low in Asian countries is still puzzling but perhaps the BCG vaccination theory actually holds some water.

Open the economy, carry on with the measures that were actually working for Singapore (minus the dorms) and all this will pass in no time at all. In the meantime the dorms will have to managed separately but they should not be allowed to cause economic chaos.

For excellent information regarding what is happening in Sweden go to https://www.covid19insweden.com/en/

totally agree with you on it in the view point in terms of economy, this is precisely the reason why actually the current govt refuse a full lockdown with roughly 15 to 20% of the economy still running. I do understand this view point, in fact the poorer countries like Thailand are being hit the hardest. The virus don't kill them, but the hunger does.

I believe the only proven method now that works now is how the South Korea does it. Do a large scale systematic testing, trace and isolated. When everything is under control then slowly open up the economy. <--unfortunately our current govt does not seems to be willing to be heading in that direction. But totally letting the economy still running as per norm like what US/Sweden does, that to me is putting its citizen at the world largest unconsented biological experiment.

with regards to the mortal rate, based on my understanding, actually the understanding of COVID19 is still too nascent. No one dares to put a conclusive reason behind the observation. If i am not wrong its not really that low in certain region, it hit as high as near to 10% in Italy (few weeks ago, stop following).

 

[Leongsam]

May be they will do ugly u turn like Britain when the royals get covid.

Did any Royal die of covid-19? Did any PM die of Covid-19? The answer is no because in the vast majority the virus causes nothing more than a mild infection.

 

[Leongsam]

totally agree with you on it in the view point in terms of economy, this is precisely the reason why actually the current govt refuse a full lockdown with roughly 15 to 20% of the economy still running. I do understand this view point, in fact the poorer countries like Thailand are being hit the hardest. The virus don't kill them, but the hunger does.

I believe the only proven method now that works now is how the South Korea does it. Do a large scale systematic testing, trace and isolated. When everything is under control then slowly open up the economy. <--unfortunately our current govt does not seems to be willing to be heading in that direction. But totally letting the economy still running as per norm like what US/Sweden does, that to me is putting its citizen at the world largest consented biological experiment.

with regards to the mortal rate, based on my understanding, actually the understanding of COVID19 is still too nascent. No one dares to put a conclusive reason behind the observation. If i am not wrong its not really that low in certain region, it hit as high as near to 10% in Italy (few weeks ago, stop following).

I think the 10% mortality rate in Italy is case mortality rate. The infection is far more widespread than the case numbers.

 

[mojito]

Did any Royal die of covid-19? Did any PM die of Covid-19? The answer is no because in the vast majority the virus causes nothing more than a mild infection.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_María_Teresa_of_Bourbon-Parma