The Show with PJ Thum — Ep. 4 — How the PAP Nanny State creates Dependence and Controls Citizens

[GoldenDragon]

The PAP of LKY's time is vastly different from the PAP of today. The PAP back then was truly for the people. The PAP of today has become a subsidiary of Temasek.

Back then, joining the PAP was an end in itself - to improve the lives of the populace.

From the mid-80s onwards, especially the past 2 decades, joining the PAP is a means to an end - to secure a better life for themselves.

 

[hofmann]

The PAP of the past behaved pretty much like the PAP of today. They too, could only rule Singapore effectively through one party rule.

Why lionize them and belittle our 4G leaders?

1G leaders gave us affordable homes and gradually raised standards of living without sucking the life out of the people. A single income for the family was sufficient for a decent life. I will always remember the year when my mother joined the work force because a single income was no longer sufficient. God bless her soul.

It's the 2G and 3G leaders who brought us into this mess. Privatization and back to nationalization of public goods. Asset enhancement leading to inflated land prices and rents. Monetization of public goods/assets to gamble away on bad bets. Death spiral of CPF funds and HDB prices.

The spiraling increase in cost of living will reduce present and future retirees to beggars ever dependent on the government for handouts. How many years before CPF minimum sum hits $1,000,000?

The jury is out on the 4G leaders. They have not been given full reign yet so I am not commenting on their performance.

But I doubt they will do any better because they do not have the clout to stand up to the entrenched powers who refuse to step aside. Cast from the same mould, it's hard to imagine any difference. I will be more than glad to be proven wrong.

For the country/people? Or for the party's interests? They are no longer aligned from where I'm sitting.

Convince me and I will vote otherwise and I can retire from this forum.

 

[hofmann]

Back then, joining the PAP was an end in itself - to improve the lives of the populace.

From the mid-80s onwards, especially the past 2 decades, joining the PAP is a means to an end - to secure a better life for themselves.

What 1G leaders achieved was a bloodless revolution. It was the great redistribution of wealth from the landlords to the people. Along the way, wealth re-accumulated into the hands of the few as wealth does in an unfettered capitalist market. But no one saw fit to redistribute again to the people.

Yes, we might have accumulation a trillion dollars in reserves, but at what cost? Look at out fertility rates, the people are not fucking because they can't afford to. Those few pariahs with 4 or more kids today all depend on charity to survive.

When will it end? How much is enough? When is it time to start releasing wealth back to the people? How many more vanity projects do we need before we say "game over!"

 

[JohnTan]

Asset enhancement leading to inflated land prices and rents.

You have asset enhancement when PAP build roads, bus interchanges and mrt stations. You have malls springing up because people had more disposable cash. All those make residential property prices go up. I do hope you see asset enhancement beyond rain shelters and parks or enlarging the size of your kitchens.

It's the 2G and 3G leaders who brought us into this mess.

You blame oppie Bock? He was a party cadre and part of the PAP CEC during that period. The 1980s and 1990s was a period great economic growth for Singapore. It was built on Ah Gong's foundations. The early 2000s were also pretty good.

I do think the PAP made mistakes. One of it was the 'stop at two' birth control policy. But it was a genuine mistake that people in various developed societies learnt from hindsight.

 

[hofmann]

You have asset enhancement when PAP build roads, bus interchanges and mrt stations. You have malls springing up because people had more disposable cash. All those make residential property prices go up. I do hope you see asset enhancement beyond rain shelters and parks or enlarging the size of your kitchens.

You're putting the horse before the cart. They jacked up land prices to squeeze more money from us to pay for those fancy shin dings. Like someone said, government playing sim City; and we are paying for it. Btw it doesn't cost money for the gov to build malls, private developers pay for that. And we pay for the inflated land prices and land through lower salaries and higher product prices. In HK, the mtr owns the station malls hence they are self funding and dont require funding from gov/tax payers.

You blame oppie Bock? He was a party cadre and part of the PAP CEC during that period. The 1980s and 1990s was a period great economic growth for Singapore. It was built on Ah Gong's foundations. The early 2000s were also pretty good.

I do think the PAP made mistakes. One of it was the 'stop at two' birth control policy. But it was a genuine mistake that people in various developed societies learnt from hindsight.

The 80s and 90s was growth at the cost of the people, unbridled economic greed. Who suffered to pay for that growth? Someone had to pay the Piper. And it was us the people. All that growth left many behind and benefited fewer and fewer people as temasek/gic sucked more and more money out of the country. Wages failed to keep up with the growth and increase in cost of living. Cheap foreign labour flooded in and we grew addicted to it because it fed more profits into the hands of TLCs and GLCs.

I don't give a fuck about Bock. But I will vote for any monkey that stands in my ward. Dr Chee is the one we really need in parliament, not some old man looking for redemption in realizing the errors of his ways. His appeal is to a different demographic, but apparently the party is pissing in it's pants over Bockie.

 

[JohnTan]

You're putting the horse before the cart. They jacked up land prices to squeeze more money from us to pay for those fancy shin dings. Like someone said, government playing sim City; and we are paying for it. Btw it doesn't cost money for the gov to build malls, private developers pay for that. And we pay for the inflated land prices and land through lower salaries and higher product prices. In HK, the mtr owns the station malls hence they are self funding and dont require funding from gov/tax payers.

If people are willing to pay $750k for a hdb flat in Bishan, then it's no longer the government jacking up the prices. If today a top floor HDB apartment at Duxton was on sale for $800k, I believe a lot of sinkies will want to buy.

The government and residents don't pay for the malls. But the presence of the mall jacks up the prices of the homes in its vicinity. Same for building polyclinics, community centers, PAP kindergartens, RCs. There are nice parks in my bukit timah neighbourhood like the botanical gardens, railway park and bukit timah hill hiking trails. All those helped somewhat to jack up the price of my property. Are those asset enhancements that we should reject?

I'm suprised that you even brought up HK as a defence for your property arguments. HK is probably the world's most notorious case of land profiteering. Regardless how profitable their MTR is, it is done by jacking up rents for their tenants to astronomical levels. Vast majority of HK ppl live in apartments that's too small, poorly maintained and they face very very long waiting list to get their own apartments.

 

[hofmann]

If people are willing to pay $750k for a hdb flat in Bishan, then it's no longer the government jacking up the prices. If today a top floor HDB apartment at Duxton was on sale for $800k, I believe a lot of sinkies will want to buy.

The government and residents don't pay for the malls. But the presence of the mall jacks up the prices of the homes in its vicinity. Same for building polyclinics, community centers, PAP kindergartens, RCs. There are nice parks in my bukit timah neighbourhood like the botanical gardens, railway park and bukit timah hill hiking trails. All those helped somewhat to jack up the price of my property. Are those asset enhancements that we should reject?

I'm suprised that you even brought up HK as a defence for your property arguments. HK is probably the world's most notorious case of land profiteering. Regardless how profitable their MTR is, it is done by jacking up rents for their tenants to astronomical levels. Vast majority of HK ppl live in apartments that's too small, poorly maintained and they face very very long waiting list to get their own apartments.

the prices of HDB flats got jacked up from 20k to 200k in 70s to the 80s. because land cost and ancillary infrastructure was suddenly imputed into public housing construction cost. this led to the cascade of prices upwards. influx of foreign money into private housing caused inflation of prices as well. all those nice amenities you mentioned would not cause a drastic increase in prices. and looking at outlier cases like bishan and duxton is hardly useful.

the government can price land at $100 psf or $1000 psf and all the costs gets passed to us. reclamation cost of land has been revealed to be $70 psf give or take.

my point on MTR owning the malls at stations is related to the self sufficiency of the MTR without needing government funding. MRT malls on the other hand are sold off to TLC GLC companies depriving the MRT of a source of income and requiring government bailouts because MRT can't afford to pay for its own maintenance.

i need to eat. will be back later.

 

[LaoTze]

the prices of HDB flats got jacked up from 20k to 200k in 70s to the 80s. because land cost and ancillary infrastructure was suddenly imputed into public housing construction cost. this led to the cascade of prices upwards. influx of foreign money into private housing caused inflation of prices as well. all those nice amenities you mentioned would not cause a drastic increase in prices. and looking at outlier cases like bishan and duxton is hardly useful.

the government can price land at $100 psf or $1000 psf and all the costs gets passed to us. reclamation cost of land has been revealed to be $70 psf give or take.

my point on MTR owning the malls at stations is related to the self sufficiency of the MTR without needing government funding. MRT malls on the other hand are sold off to TLC GLC companies depriving the MRT of a source of income and requiring government bailouts because MRT can't afford to pay for its own maintenance.

i need to eat. will be back later.

YUP TO ALL THAT YOU WROTE
AND MORE

UNDERSTANDABLE AS YOU GOT TO BREAK OFF TO EAT

BUT THE FACT REMAINS STINKAPOREAN BEEN TIEW BEEN KANN AND FUCKED BY A BUNCH OF MAGGOTS MAGGOTESS IN WHITE AND THEIR CRONIES AND PAPER GENERALS AND CRASSLOOT LEECHERS