The cause of vaccine hesitancy

I'm looking at the overall picture of what is facing humanity and putting Covid in the correct perspective.

Worrying about temporary ICU capacity is for minions like yourself. If it's important to you then campaign for more funding and better drugs.
We've debated this at length many times before. Alcohol and tobacco abuse are personal choices people make. Apart from education and campaigns, it is not the gahment's job to micro manage people's lives when it comes to personal choices.

When it comes to a disease where people have no control over, the response has to be made to protect public health. That, to me is putting things in perspective. :thumbsup:
 
The only difference I see is that mandating vaccines is making a lot of money for a lot of people.

Banning alcohol and tobacco will do the exact opposite.

Money talks above all else. Ordinary mortals are just pawns in the game played by the oligarchies. Anyone who thinks that vaccine mandates are about saving lives is naive to put it politely.
Just like you say strife paves the way to progress, so does money. :biggrin:

Yes, money talks. It's how you make it talk. I have learnt to never begrudge anyone who makes money from creating something that benefits. Would we still be talking here online if no one makes money somewhere? :wink:

Vaccination saves lives, that's a fact. Get over it. :thumbsup:
 
We've debated this at length many times before. Alcohol and tobacco abuse are personal choices people make. Apart from education and campaigns, it is not the gahment's job to micro manage people's lives when it comes to personal choices.

When it comes to a disease where people have no control over, the response has to be made to protect public health. That, to me is putting things in perspective. :thumbsup:

Every Friday night in Auckland ER is chaos because of the severely intoxicated and the overdoses end up at admissions. The innocent victims of their assaults are often in the same ambulance convoy.

Then there the road accidents caused by drink driving and for some reason the innocent victim always seems to be the more severely injured.

Babies are being born drug dependent because their mothers spent the entire 9 months of pregnancy consuming meth.

And tobacco has its innocent victims too from second hand smoke.

Alcohol and tobacco are personal choices only when nobody else other than the consumer is affected.
 
We've debated this at length many times before. Alcohol and tobacco abuse are personal choices people make. Apart from education and campaigns, it is not the gahment's job to micro manage people's lives when it comes to personal choices.

When it comes to a disease where people have no control over, the response has to be made to protect public health. That, to me is putting things in perspective. :thumbsup:

Hospital EDs overwhelmed by alcohol and other drug-related cases​


From Checkpoint, 5:26 pm on 1 June 2021



Nick Truebridge

Nick Truebridge, Checkpoint Reporter
[email protected]


Listen
Stretched and struggling to cope - that's the alarming message in a Waitematā DHB doctor's letter to the government.
Many young women and men drinking at christmas party on white studio background

Photo: 123RF

Dr Adrian Kerner's letter to Justice Minister Kris Faafoi, obtained by Checkpoint, says Auckland's emergency rooms are overwhelmed by patients showing up with alcohol and drug problems.

It also warns of people in their 20s and 30s who are alcohol dependent and showing signs of organ damage.

Meanwhile, data provided under the Official Information Act shows the problem is costing the taxpayer hundreds of millions of dollars.

Dr Kerner, a senior doctor and emergency medicine consultant, was unavailable for this story, but excerpts of his letter to Faafoi bore out just how much of a strain alcohol and drug misuse was having on the health system.

"The emergency departments are already overwhelmed by volume of attending patients," he wrote.

"Our resources are stretched, and we are struggling with the volume of patients who present with alcohol and drug problems and associated mental health and other psychosocial problems."

Dr Natalie Anderson is a senior lecturer at the University of Auckland, but she has held onto her other day job as a practising emergency department nurse.
When it comes to out-of-control, alcohol-fuelled scenes in the emergency room, she has pretty much seen it all.

"Having people screaming and yelling and vomiting and urinating and being threatening makes for a really challenging workplace," she told Checkpoint.

"I'm sometimes spending so much time with people who are vomiting and drunk, and perhaps aggressive or shouty, when I know that there are other people who also really need my time and aren't getting it because I can only be in one place at a time".

Some patients were waking up so drunk, they had no idea how they were injured the night before and therefore unable to fill out ACC forms.

"Our departments are absolutely at the very limits of managing the kind of complexity and acuity - how sick our people are [and] how complex their needs are - and that alcohol abuse is just really tipping the scales often so that we just can't manage to cope," Dr Anderson said.

In his letter, Dr Kerner backed potential changes to the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act, such as targeting irresponsible promotions.

"We are seeing many people in their 20s and 30s who are alcohol dependent with evidence of organ damage."

Data provided by all three Auckland DHBs under the Official Information Act showed that between early 2019 and late 2020, Counties Manukau DHB spent more than $16.5 million treating more than 5500 people who showed up to its emergency department with alcohol issues.

Waitematā DHB spent $18.1m treating 3807 people over the same nearly two-year period.

Neither come close to Auckland District Health Board, which spent more than $37.5m treating patients presenting with alcohol problems in 2019 alone. It did not yet have data for 2020.

Health Coalition Aotearoa board member Dr David Galler spent 31 years as an intensive care specialist at Middlemore Hospital.

"We've seen people who have been drunk and tripped and become quadriplegics," he said.

That's not to mention the thousands of alcohol-fuelled falls and car crashes and brawls that have left people in Middlemore's emergency department.

"That's a real problem in some areas where there is high density of liquor stores," he said.


"There certainly would be no place like South Auckland for the high density of liquor stores. There's nowhere at the moment in the country I would expect."
Dr Galler has written his own letter to the Justice Minister, pointing out New Zealand was not on track to achieve a World Health Organization target of a 10 percent relative reduction in the harmful use of alcohol.

He wanted alcohol taxes increased, marketing regulated on platforms like social media and sponsorship of public events banned altogether.

Faafoi's office told Checkpoint the Justice Ministry had been asked to assess its ability to review the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act.
Cabinet would decide on the scope and timing of alcohol reforms.
 
It's not going to change without a significant rewiring of the human brain via a process of evolution.
It's never going to work to get everyone to "rewire" their brains. Hitler tried, Mao tried, a lot of people throughout history have gone to great lengths to change how people view things. Nobody has succeeded in getting everyone to "rewire" their brains to suit a common ideal.
Every Friday night in Auckland ER is chaos because of the severely intoxicated and the overdoses end up at admissions. The innocent victims of their assaults are often in the same ambulance convoy.

Then there the road accidents caused by drink driving and for some reason the innocent victim always seems to be the more severely injured.

Babies are being born drug dependent because their mothers spent the entire 9 months of pregnancy consuming meth.

And tobacco has its innocent victims too from second hand smoke.

Alcohol and tobacco are personal choices only when nobody else other than the consumer is affected.
That's just one of those things that are put under: "Facts of life". Like I said - apart from education and campaigns, there is very little anyone can do to change people's behaviour and poor life choices that result in bad outcomes. They HAVE a choice.

Mandatory vaccinations are a different matter because people have NO control over a disease. They have NO choice.
 
The only difference I see is that mandating vaccines is making a lot of money for a lot of people.

Banning alcohol and tobacco will do the exact opposite.

Money talks above all else. Ordinary mortals are just pawns in the game played by the oligarchies. Anyone who thinks that vaccine mandates are about saving lives is naive to put it politely.
So why don’t you march right up to Ardern’s office and bang on her table and demand the NZ borders be flung wide open like a cat $60 whore and let people die ?

small price to pay to better humanity
 
Building trust and finding common ground sounds ideal but not practical in pandemic times when public health safety is paramount. It only works when the other party is reciprocratory and the majority are not.

I don't see pussyfooting as an option when the objective is to save lives.
I can see where you are coming from. And your approach will work in a society like SG.

I am just sharing that your way is however not what drs in Canada are trained to approach patients. Especially not family drs.

Which is why our vaccination rates are much lower than SG's.

My point is not to say that your approach is wrong. But to point out that what I am doing and saying is not something I cooked up and that I am really part of the norm in North America.

You may disagree with it but it certainly doesnt make me unsuitable to be a Dr in Canada. Quite the opposite!
 
It's never going to work to get everyone to "rewire" their brains. Hitler tried, Mao tried, a lot of people throughout history have gone to great lengths to change how people view things. Nobody has succeeded in getting everyone to "rewire" their brains to suit a common ideal.

That's just one of those things that are put under: "Facts of life". Like I said - apart from education and campaigns, there is very little anyone can do to change people's behaviour and poor life choices that result in bad outcomes. They HAVE a choice.

Mandatory vaccinations are a different matter because people have NO control over a disease. They have NO choice.

When I refer to "rewiring" I mentioned that would have to be via evolutionary process whereby peaceful traits are favored by evolution over the greed and violence.

I never suggested brainwashing was a solution.

Read some articles on how dogs evolved from wolves as an example.
 
I challenge any anti vaxxers to stand outside any A&E today in a T shirt that says unvaccinated

Let’s see if all the acute appendicitis, fractures, CVA , AMI and paediatric seizures patients can understand your feelings while they wait for a covid bed to empty
 
So why don’t you march right up to Ardern’s office and bang on her table and demand the NZ borders be flung wide open like a cat $60 whore and let people die ?

small price to pay to better humanity
She'll probably throw him out and charge him for masquerading as a maori because of his brown skin to get benefits. :biggrin:
I can see where you are coming from. And your approach will work in a society like SG.

I am just sharing that your way is however not what drs in Canada are trained to approach patients. Especially not family drs.

Which is why our vaccination rates are much lower than SG's.

My point is not to say that your approach is wrong. But to point out that what I am doing and saying is not something I cooked up and that I am really part of the norm in North America.

You may disagree with it but it certainly doesnt make me unsuitable to be a Dr in Canada. Quite the opposite!
I understand. You'll probably be the last person to make a change in any status quo. Not saying this in a sarcastic manner. Please don't get angry or offended. :biggrin:
 
So why don’t you march right up to Ardern’s office and bang on her table and demand the NZ borders be flung wide open like a cat $60 whore and let people die ?

small price to pay to better humanity

Because I know it would achieve nothing other than me being charged for disturbing the peace or threatening a public figure.

However my vote counts in NZ and we'll see whether she is still around after the next election.
 
When I refer to "rewiring" I mentioned that would have to be via evolutionary process whereby peaceful traits are favored by evolution over the greed and violence.

I never suggested brainwashing was a solution.

Read some articles on how dogs evolved from wolves as an example.
I shall humbly reject your request for me to read up on how dogs evolved from wolves simply because we are not dogs or wolves. :rolleyes:
 
I challenge any anti vaxxers to stand outside any A&E today in a T shirt that says unvaccinated

Let’s see if all the acute appendicitis, fractures, CVA , AMI and paediatric seizures patients can understand your feelings while they wait for a covid bed to empty
They can't gather if they are unvaccinated so no chance of that happening. They could protest all they want from Changi Resort but who would hear?:biggrin:
 
She'll probably throw him out and charge him for masquerading as a maori because of his brown skin to get benefits. :biggrin:

I understand. You'll probably be the last person to make a change in any status quo. Not saying this in a sarcastic manner. Please don't get angry or offended. :biggrin:
Absolutely!

If I were that kind of person I would have stayed in SG and be like GMS and wasted my life and put my family into hardship. All for what?

The system of mandates works in SG. It has already worked well enough if you ask me.

Seriously would there be that big a difference if the country was 100% vaccinated? 82.7% is already very very high.

Vaccines are working well enough in SG.
 
Vaccines are working well enough in SG.

What is your definition of "well enough" and what makes you think that your "well enough" assessment is shared by others.

There will be some social justice warriors who can easily counter that with their "every single life matters" mantra and we're back to square one arguing, fighting, hating each other. :D
 
Absolutely!

If I were that kind of person I would have stayed in SG and be like GMS and wasted my life and put my family into hardship. All for what?

The system of mandates works in SG. It has already worked well enough if you ask me.

Seriously would there be that big a difference if the country was 100% vaccinated? 82.7% is already very very high.

Vaccines are working well enough in SG.
Of course, not everyone who stayed on in Sinkeepoo has wasted their life lah... Some have gone on to do very well. :thumbsup:

I am an overseas graduate but the majority of my friends graduated from NUS and stayed on to become success stories in whatever their calling is in life. From my observance though, this much I can say: Whle all progressive changes to rules and life's "norms" seem to originate from students in universaties around the world because that's where ideas are usually born, Sinkee university graduates are more concerned with their ricebowl after they graduate and seem afraid to "rock the boat". They are people like yourself - with no fire in the belly and head full of ideas to change things. Nothing bad, please don't get offended and I am sorry if I have touched on a raw nerve in your fragile self esteem... I mean this is in a factual way. :biggrin:
 
I was considering a trip up North to tell Jacinda what I thought of her vaccine shit but someone beat me to it. :biggrin:



Covid-19 NZ: Jacinda Ardern press conference in Northland disrupted by anti-vax heckling​

Henry Cooke14:02, Nov 02 2021








Stuff
Jacinda Ardern moves press conference after anti-vaxer disruption.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern opted to suspend a press conference in Northland after an anti-vax heckler appeared.
American Shane Chafin from Counterspin Media asked Ardern to state the fatality rate for Covid-19 and then to name a woman who had “died from the Covid-19 vaccine”.
Counterspin Media is a NZ-based far-right talk show that streams on GTV, a network founded by former Trump Advisor Steve Bannon.
Only one person’s death has been directly linked to the Covid-19 vaccine in New Zealand, after 6.8 million doses, and that link has not yet been confirmed by the coroner.

READ MORE:
* Covid-19: 126 new cases in Delta outbreak in Auckland, Waikato, Northland
* No new Covid cases in Christchurch, questions remain on Tongan case and wastewater results
* Covid-19: Locations of interest in Delta outbreak – November 2

Police intervened as a protestor disrupted a press conference held in Northland by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

Ricky Wilson/Stuff

Police intervened as a protestor disrupted a press conference held in Northland by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
Ardern said she would direct questions to accredited media.
The man then started heckling her again, asking about the vaccine’s effectiveness in Israel.
Ardern replied that she “would shut down the press conference if he did not cease” and then paused the press conference.
Chaffin has appeared on Counterspin Media as the show’s “chief medical correspondent” and says he is American pharmacist.
He called Ardern “prime sinister” as she walked away from the press conference.


It restarted a few minutes later, with local Labour MP Kelvin Davis saying that the incident was “the reason vaccine rates were so low in Northland.”
Ardern said it was important to get the protests in perspective, as it was just two people. Northland MP Willow-Jean Prime corrected her to say it was four people.
Northland has one of the lowest vaccine rates in the country.

A woman from Ngāpuhi protesting the vaccine was also present and was held back by police.

Israel has a lower rate of vaccination than New Zealand, and vaccinated much of its population months before New Zealand. The virus has had a resurgence in the country. Scientists have blamed this on waning immunity from the vaccine, but those vaccinated many months before were still more protected than those who had not been vaccinated.
 
What is your definition of "well enough" and what makes you think that your "well enough" assessment is shared by others.

There will be some social justice warriors who can easily counter that with their "every single life matters" mantra and we're back to square one arguing, fighting, hating each other. :biggrin:
So there you go... Bro Nayr69sg, you can use your skills in creating trust and finding common ground to "slow talk" these social justice warriors. :biggrin:

I know this would be impoosible, but it would be a dream to sit and discuss these things over a beer with all you guys. Sam, Nayr69sg, porcaputtana and some of the more sensible ones here would make great cock-talking, beer-drinking buddies. Wide diversity of views and personalities really make an enjoyable talk-cock session. :biggrin::biggrin:
 
Of course, not everyone who stayed on in Sinkeepoo has wasted their life lah... Some have gone on to do very well. :thumbsup:

I am an overseas graduate but the majority of my friends graduated from NUS and stayed on to become success stories in whatever their calling is in life. From my observance though, this much I can say: Whle all progressive changes to rules and life's "norms" seem to originate from students in universaties around the world because that's where ideas are usually born, Sinkee university graduates are more concerned with their ricebowl after they graduate and seem afraid to "rock the boat". They are people like yourself - with no fire in the belly and head full of ideas to change things. Nothing bad, please don't get offended and I am sorry if I have touched on a raw nerve in your fragile self esteem... I mean this is in a factual way. :biggrin:
Actually I started out trying to rock the boat. Specifically when I was a SAF MO. I learnt my lesson from there.

During SARS I also learned that following the orders was also not the way to go.

I alao learned that SG didnt care about people. It was more abour economy. Like you said rice bowl.

I hope my kids growing up in Canada would have a different perspective and approach from me. I am too pragmatic for my own good actually.

Haha.
 
So there you go... Bro Nayr69sg, you can use your skills in creating trust and finding common ground to "slow talk" these social justice warriors. :biggrin:

I know this would be impoosible, but it would be a dream to sit and discuss these things over a beer with all you guys. Sam, Nayr69sg, porcaputtana and some of the more sensible ones here would make great cock-talking, beer-drinking buddies. Wide diversity of views and personalities really make an enjoyable talk-cock session. :biggrin::biggrin:
It has been a good discussion.

Talk cock buddies? As long as dont attack personally and insult people belittle them I think I rather not join that kind of table.

Singapore already very high vax rate lah. Not much more to improve already actually.
 
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