Tan Kin Lian & the Presdent's Power

[scroobal]

There were 2 particular comments that suggested that he is not upfront with Singaporeans. Or alternatively not bothered to find out about the role of the President. One was his comment about influencing the investment decision of the Govt which was quickly rebutted by two ministers. The other and most recent comment was on safeguarding the CPF.

It also painfully became evident that Singaporeans are not familiar with the role either. To put it bluntly, you should fear your mother-in-law than the President as the latter's role in the main is a dud. Here are the main points

• No discretion at all to grant clemency for someone facing the death penalty
• No power to do anything at allto your CPF let alone safeguard it. How is he going to safeguard it when he has no power. All he has is the right to refuse assent to a new bill that touches on CPF investment. The current legislation allows the CPF Board to investment in anything and anywhere where they deem fit. So a new bill is as likely as we seeing snow.
• The President has to right to refuse to appoint key appointment holders but parliament with two thirds of the seats can approve and override the President's decision
• The budget of Govt, Govt companies and stat boards and the use of reserves cover those that are not accumulated by the current Govt. As the PAP has been in power from the very start and still in power, the President can't do shit
  Es
• CPIB - this one area where the President does have some power. If the director of CPIB does not get approval to carry out an investigation, he can go to the President for consent. Of course the President cannot initiate an investigation.

It will explain why other two candidates have remained silent in this area.

 

[tanwahtiu]

Scroolballs, listn,

At the current situation, there is only 2, not 3, choices the people have on voting for their EP. Come 2016 the PAP might become an Opposiiton party so we need to kick some arse on PAP by denying PAP EP. Just as WP winning Aljunied GRC has proven to you whatever you say about TKL it will neber change the way people think abou the bad record of PAP.

Paying themsleves millions of dollars and yet denying their CPF members their own CPF when they hit 55, and failure to cap the limit on FTs, the PAP is brewing sometimes that is close to a civil riot. This EP voting is a let off steam for everyone and whatsoever you say will neber change them. Good luck and pssssttt - fuck off ... hehehe

 

[Zenra2OO3]

There were 2 particular comments that suggested that he is not upfront with Singaporeans. Or alternatively not bothered to find out about the role of the President. One was his comment about influencing the investment decision of the Govt which was quickly rebutted by two ministers. The other and most recent comment was on safeguarding the CPF.

It also painfully became evident that Singaporeans are not familiar with the role either. To put it bluntly, you should fear your mother-in-law than the President as the latter's role in the main is a dud. Here are the main points

• No discretion at all to grant clemency for someone facing the death penalty
• No power to do anything at allto your CPF let alone safeguard it. How is he going to safeguard it when he has no power. All he has is the right to refuse assent to a new bill that touches on CPF investment. The current legislation allows the CPF Board to investment in anything and anywhere where they deem fit. So a new bill is as likely as we seeing snow.
• The President has to right to refuse to appoint key appointment holders but parliament with two thirds of the seats can approve and override the President's decision
• The budget of Govt, Govt companies and stat boards and the use of reserves cover those that are not accumulated by the current Govt. As the PAP has been in power from the very start and still in power, the President can't do shit
  Es
• CPIB - this one area where the President does have some power. If the director of CPIB does not get approval to carry out an investigation, he can go to the President for consent. Of course the President cannot initiate an investigation.

It will explain why other two candidates have remained silent in this area.

Yozz..what has happened to your posting?

As in what really happened to your sense of objectivity? You seem clouded by your bias of TKL.

Here is an unbiased viewpoint, and you can refer to this article too.

http://newasiarepublic.com/?p=29952

"Strategy-wise, assuming we get a three-horse race, it is likely that Kin Lian will continue travelling with the opposition bandwagon. The split in PAP candidates supporting vote is good for him, and there is no reason why he should change his tack. Assuming a half split in PAP supporting votes, all Kin Lian has to do is to maintain the 40% margin."

I mean objectively speaking, do you expect TKL to tell the world that presidency is a dud, or a non-important role?

Reason why he is jumping on the opposition bandwagon and bringing up populist issues, giving his opinion on those is because he wants to win votes.

Reserves and death penalties are touchy topics. What other ways to win votes other than talking about them?

Do you expect TKL to keep quiet about them? Actually, objectively speaking, TKL only communicated his IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS about the role of presidency, it is not really miscommunication as you mentioned.

An example is this: I will now give my views on the approach that can be taken by the Elected President to
safeguard the financial future of the people.
 I suggest that the Elected President Office should produce an annual report showing the
Reserves of Singapore. The financial assets of the relevant bodies should be stated at its
book value and market value. It is important to avoid focus on the market value as it is
highly volatile and is not appropriate for long term investments.
 This report should also show the obligation of the Government and should include the
balances held by the people held in the Central Provident Fund and also the bonds and
guarantees issued by the Government.
 It is a difficult to decide if the physical assets, such as the military hardware and
infrastructure should also be included in the annual report. There is the need to preserve
national secrets, such as military hardware, and also the practical difficulty of listing the
items. I believe that these items can be excluded, so long as there are adequate measures
to ensure that the sale and disposal of these items can be properly accounted for

And this is what Kin Lian said about clemency, and note that he again is giving his IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS.

"A journalist asked me to comment on the changes that I like to see in the constitution on the power of the President. (She said that Dr. Tony Tan had given some comments in his interview on this matter).

I replied that I like to see the constitution changed to give the full power of clemency to the President. He can seek the advice of his Presidential Council or the Cabinet, but should not be compelled to follow the decision of the Cabinet."

You ever wondered why westerners do better than ppl like us easterners when it comes to presenting themselves? It is because when they present, they too confidently present their ideas and suggestions. Simply, when you tell someone your idea and suggestion about something, you give the impression of CONFIDENCE.

We all know that President role is a dud. But when electing a dud, as a voter, would you vote for someone who maintain golden silence or will you vote for someone that have IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS and articulates confidently about the dud role that touches on hot button issues? That answers the question.

You see, end of the day, it is just politics AKA winning votes. You have been very objective in the past, but you seem to be losing it when talking about TKL. Chap offended you b4?

I am no ardent supporter of TKL, fellow got his flaws, and frankly, Presidency is a dud role. But hopefully, you can see what TKL is driving at. It is just politics lar.

 

[kingrant]

Scroobal,

TKL has threatened to sue the pants of you because you kept saying he can't influence the decisions of the govt of the day. He is so mad at you for pecha-ing his lobangs. How dare you keep reminding people that he was a PAP member for 30 years, and quietly savouring all those years of easy INCOME from NTUC Insurance in a captive market. He also didnt want people to be reminded that he had links to the PAP as a branch sec. You should see the bottom and inside of his heart, which is all pure white gold.

There were 2 particular comments that suggested that he is not upfront with Singaporeans. Or alternatively not bothered to find out about the role of the President. One was his comment about influencing the investment decision of the Govt which was quickly rebutted by two ministers. The other and most recent comment was on safeguarding the CPF.

It also painfully became evident that Singaporeans are not familiar with the role either. To put it bluntly, you should fear your mother-in-law than the President as the latter's role in the main is a dud. Here are the main points

• No discretion at all to grant clemency for someone facing the death penalty
• No power to do anything at allto your CPF let alone safeguard it. How is he going to safeguard it when he has no power. All he has is the right to refuse assent to a new bill that touches on CPF investment. The current legislation allows the CPF Board to investment in anything and anywhere where they deem fit. So a new bill is as likely as we seeing snow.
• The President has to right to refuse to appoint key appointment holders but parliament with two thirds of the seats can approve and override the President's decision
• The budget of Govt, Govt companies and stat boards and the use of reserves cover those that are not accumulated by the current Govt. As the PAP has been in power from the very start and still in power, the President can't do shit
  Es
• CPIB - this one area where the President does have some power. If the director of CPIB does not get approval to carry out an investigation, he can go to the President for consent. Of course the President cannot initiate an investigation.

It will explain why other two candidates have remained silent in this area.

 

[kingrant]

In which case, you should not cast yr vote for anyone. All have PAP blood in them.

Scroolballs, listn,

At the current situation, there is only 2, not 3, choices the people have on voting for their EP. Come 2016 the PAP might become an Opposiiton party so we need to kick some arse on PAP by denying PAP EP. Just as WP winning Aljunied GRC has proven to you whatever you say about TKL it will neber change the way people think abou the bad record of PAP.

Paying themsleves millions of dollars and yet denying their CPF members their own CPF when they hit 55, and failure to cap the limit on FTs, the PAP is brewing sometimes that is close to a civil riot. This EP voting is a let off steam for everyone and whatsoever you say will neber change them. Good luck and pssssttt - fuck off ... hehehe

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Look at it positively, Scroobal. Even the PAP endorsed candidate Dr Tony Tan is saying that constitution can be changed over time.

What TKL has said may not be exactly what the PAP's constitution wants him to do but he can always push for changes, just like Dr Tony Tan. Most importantly, I think these are valid points, disregarding the constrains of the Constitution, that the President should have certain power and space to work on if this institution is truly set up to safeguard the reserves. I mean, please be realistic, how are you going to "safeguard" something which you don't even know how much there are, where they are and how they are used! Most importantly, you cannot safeguard something if you can't put judgement on whether such monies are invested appropriately or not!

Goh Meng Seng

 

[kingrant]

I bet my last dollar that if TT wins, the PAP govt will enact changes to the constitutional role of the EP to allow him to show a favourable face to the people.

However, if TKL were to win, the PAP govt will stick with the status quo and render him as powerless as possible. Even OTC could not do battle with the govt. you think TKL can? OTC and TKL are not even on the same planet.

Look at it positively, Scroobal. Even the PAP endorsed candidate Dr Tony Tan is saying that constitution can be changed over time.

What TKL has said may not be exactly what the PAP's constitution wants him to do but he can always push for changes, just like Dr Tony Tan. Most importantly, I think these are valid points, disregarding the constrains of the Constitution, that the President should have certain power and space to work on if this institution is truly set up to safeguard the reserves. I mean, please be realistic, how are you going to "safeguard" something which you don't even know how much there are, where they are and how they are used! Most importantly, you cannot safeguard something if you can't put judgement on whether such monies are invested appropriately or not!

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

Do you see anyone else making claims that he can do the things that cannot be realised? Don't you think that such claims are misleading? TKL is not claiming that EP is a dud or am I missing something here.

There are good and bad politics. I think he is playing the numbers game. He is aware that he can secure the proverbial anti incumbent / anti establishment 30% . He has got to reach the other 20% by hook or by crook. TT will go straight for the compliant 60%. TCB will eat votes from both ends - the educated / the professionals and those who know him plus 6 degrees of separation and importantly those that are educated and anti establishment. TCB universe is thus too small.

Based on the above TCB can be more anti establishment and improve his chances by misleading Singaporeans and making ridiculous claims. There is ready audience - those take things at face value, those not well read, not well educated and any form of PAP rhetoric is music to the ears. Even when none of the claims can stand scrutiny.

You do realise that I have absolutely no purchase with TKL if he did not make those claims and if his conduct was that of an decent chap. His 100k petition and his subsequent backtracking, his lack of transparency with FISCA after seeking to be a financial consumer advocate etc are not good politics. You can tell about a person by the company that he keeps.

It might be good if you could counter balance my slant with what you consider are his good points.

Yozz..what has happened to your posting?


29952[/url]



I mean objectively speaking, do you expect TKL tGo tell the world that presidency is a dud, or a non-important role?

I am no ardent supporter of TKL, fellow got his flaws, and frankly, Presidency is a dud role. But hopefully, you can see what TKL is driving at. It is just politics lar.

 

[scroobal]

Even though, TT will never see my vote, that is not a false statement. That is a valid point. Why did TKL not make a similar comment. By now you know that I get agitated by those who make patently false claims and more importantly mislead the naive and those who take things at face value.

Look at his conduct - FISCA, 100K petition, swimming pool with worker's money, trying to downplay his significant past with PAP. Outshines his mini-bond achievement.

Have you seen TCB making any misleading statements.

If want to do something right by the people, do it right and don't go into gutter politics. By the way, everything he is saying makes him ideal for GE. Why EP? I am all for making a mockery of the office by an incumbent if it helps to throws egg on the face of PAP but we should not mislead simple minds amongst us and there are many.

Frankly would you use funds from a workers cooperative to build a swimming pool. My assessment of your character says no. A simple, trivial but pointed measure of the man.

Look at it positively, Scroobal. Even the PAP endorsed candidate Dr Tony Tan is saying that constitution can be changed over time.

What TKL has said may not be exactly what the PAP's constitution wants him to do but he can always push for changes, just like Dr Tony Tan. Most importantly, I think these are valid points, disregarding the constrains of the Constitution, that the President should have certain power and space to work on if this institution is truly set up to safeguard the reserves. I mean, please be realistic, how are you going to "safeguard" something which you don't even know how much there are, where they are and how they are used! Most importantly, you cannot safeguard something if you can't put judgement on whether such monies are invested appropriately or not!

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

He is an interesting individual. Quite an oddball.

Scroobal,

You should see the bottom and inside of his heart, which is all pure white gold.

 

[scroobal]

I thought I will give a separate response to this. The part about the citizen readable annual report is good as most it is readily available publicly without which ratings agencies such as Moody's and institutions like IMF cannot do their job and we cannot float bonds or dabble in SDRs. He should be doing more of this which is good politics. I think his conduct and the lack of transparency with FISCA seems to put him in the same boat at the people he is throwing stones at.

An example is this: I will now give my views on the approach that can be taken by the Elected President to
safeguard the financial future of the people.
 I suggest that the Elected President Office should produce an annual report showing the
Reserves of Singapore. The financial assets of the relevant bodies should be stated at its
book value and market value. It is important to avoid focus on the market value as it is
highly volatile and is not appropriate for long term investments.
 This report should also show the obligation of the Government and should include the
balances held by the people held in the Central Provident Fund and also the bonds and
guarantees issued by the Government.
 It is a difficult to decide if the physical assets, such as the military hardware and
infrastructure should also be included in the annual report. There is the need to preserve
national secrets, such as military hardware, and also the practical difficulty of listing the
items. I believe that these items can be excluded, so long as there are adequate measures
to ensure that the sale and disposal of these items can be properly accounted for

And this is what Kin Lian said about clemency, and note that he again is giving his IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS.

"A journalist asked me to comment on the changes that I like to see in the constitution on the power of the President. (She said that Dr. Tony Tan had given some comments in his interview on this matter).

I replied that I like to see the constitution changed to give the full power of clemency to the President. He can seek the advice of his Presidential Council or the Cabinet, but should not be compelled to follow the decision of the Cabinet."

You ever wondered why westerners do better than ppl like us easterners when it comes to presenting themselves? It is because when they present, they too confidently present their ideas and suggestions. Simply, when you tell someone your idea and suggestion about something, you give the impression of CONFIDENCE.

We all know that President role is a dud. But when electing a dud, as a voter, would you vote for someone who maintain golden silence or will you vote for someone that have IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS and articulates confidently about the dud role that touches on hot button issues? That answers the question.

You see, end of the day, it is just politics AKA winning votes. You have been very objective in the past, but you seem to be losing it when talking about TKL. Chap offended you b4?

I am no ardent supporter of TKL, fellow got his flaws, and frankly, Presidency is a dud role. But hopefully, you can see what TKL is driving at. It is just politics lar.

 

[sense]

Here is an unbiased viewpoint, and you can refer to this article too.

http://newasiarepublic.com/?p=29952

... all Kin Lian has to do is to maintain the 40% margin."

Unbiased? Perhaps.

"40% margin", Naive? You bet!

 

[scroobal]

The PAP will never be in opposition for the next 3 elections. The people will put their brakes if the Pendulum swings too far. Voters are not out kill the country. There must be sufficient bench strength to govern this country. It's is not a basket case in case it slipped your mind.

People are ready to teach the PAP a lesson, to make them less arrogant, more transparent and more accountable.

Frankly I am sure TKL will be the first to admit that he is in no position to run a Govt even if he has the house majority as the depth of skills to form a decent cabinet is unlikely. The senior civil servants may be able to carry the new cabinet as the they have done the French Govt, but very remote.

What we are trying to do is to bring a dog to heel, build on forming an equally string second party but it will take time.

Scroolballs, listn,

At the current situation, there is only 2, not 3, choices the people have on voting for their EP. Come 2016 the PAP might become an Opposiiton party so we need to kick some arse on PAP by denying PAP EP. Just as WP winning Aljunied GRC has proven to you whatever you say about TKL it will neber change the way people think abou the bad record of PAP.

Paying themsleves millions of dollars and yet denying their CPF members their own CPF when they hit 55, and failure to cap the limit on FTs, the PAP is brewing sometimes that is close to a civil riot. This EP voting is a let off steam for everyone and whatsoever you say will neber change them. Good luck and pssssttt - fuck off ... hehehe

 

[sense]

There were 2 particular comments that suggested that he is not upfront with Singaporeans. Or alternatively not bothered to find out about the role of the President. One was his comment about influencing the investment decision of the Govt which was quickly rebutted by two ministers. The other and most recent comment was on safeguarding the CPF.
:
:

In light the above and what TKL just said about others: "Tan Kin Lian: No need for lies, online bashing", http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/tan-kin-lian-no-lies-online-bashing-044911646.html

One can't help but wonder whether as far as what he thinks EP can do and cannot do, either TKL is:
(1) naive regarding the role of an EP, or
(2) lying to gain votes.

Between the two, the former case may be better for his ego.

 

[Unrepented]

Among the three, the one who can command the highest level of moral authority as an EP will be able to speak the loudest..... when they choose to speak.

But for ones who are just as tainted as their opponent engaged in discourse, won't be able to give a wimper when countered.:o

Scroolballs, listn,

At the current situation, there is only 2, not 3, choices the people have on voting for their EP. Come 2016 the PAP might become an Opposiiton party so we need to kick some arse on PAP by denying PAP EP. Just as WP winning Aljunied GRC has proven to you whatever you say about TKL it will neber change the way people think abou the bad record of PAP.

Paying themsleves millions of dollars and yet denying their CPF members their own CPF when they hit 55, and failure to cap the limit on FTs, the PAP is brewing sometimes that is close to a civil riot. This EP voting is a let off steam for everyone and whatsoever you say will neber change them. Good luck and pssssttt - fuck off ... hehehe

 

[tanwahtiu]

One small step at a time. If it can takes PAP 50 years let's take the first step as an alternative solution. Anway, if TKL did not not perform people will throw shoe at him like shoe thrown at G Bush.

The PAP will never be in opposition for the next 3 elections. The people will put their brakes if the Pendulum swings too far. Voters are not out kill the country. There must be sufficient bench strength to govern this country. It's is not a basket case in case it slipped your mind.

People are ready to teach the PAP a lesson, to make them less arrogant, more transparent and more accountable.

Frankly I am sure TKL will be the first to admit that he is in no position to run a Govt even if he has the house majority as the depth of skills to form a decent cabinet is unlikely. The senior civil servants may be able to carry the new cabinet as the they have done the French Govt, but very remote.

What we are trying to do is to bring a dog to heel, build on forming an equally string second party but it will take time.

 

[Unrepented]

Were you campaign manager for TPL also?

Please dont embarrass oppositions by exercising double standards in judgement and conduct. I still wish to see more opposition representation in parliment, pls dont fuck it up for the rest of us.

One small step at a time. If it can takes PAP 50 years let's take the first step as an alternative solution. Anway, if TKL did not not perform people will throw shoe at him like shoe thrown at G Bush.

 

[sense]

if TKL did not not perform people will throw shoe at him like shoe thrown at G Bush.

That's true, if TCB did not perform, people can also throw shoe at him.

 

[Zenra2OO3]

Do you see anyone else making claims that he can do the things that cannot be realised? Don't you think that such claims are misleading? TKL is not claiming that EP is a dud or am I missing something here.

There are good and bad politics. I think he is playing the numbers game. He is aware that he can secure the proverbial anti incumbent / anti establishment 30% . He has got to reach the other 20% by hook or by crook. TT will go straight for the compliant 60%. TCB will eat votes from both ends - the educated / the professionals and those who know him plus 6 degrees of separation and importantly those that are educated and anti establishment. TCB universe is thus too small.

Based on the above TCB can be more anti establishment and improve his chances by misleading Singaporeans and making ridiculous claims. There is ready audience - those take things at face value, those not well read, not well educated and any form of PAP rhetoric is music to the ears. Even when none of the claims can stand scrutiny.

You do realise that I have absolutely no purchase with TKL if he did not make those claims and if his conduct was that of an decent chap. His 100k petition and his subsequent backtracking, his lack of transparency with FISCA after seeking to be a financial consumer advocate etc are not good politics. You can tell about a person by the company that he keeps.

It might be good if you could counter balance my slant with what you consider are his good points.

I don't see any point in countering your slant.

Has it ever occured to you that touching on hot button issues is an attempt to reach out to everyone. Why wouldn't it be any one's concern.

TCB is running a risk by being anti-establishment. As some ppl pointed out, he may loose his PAP support.

You are entitled to your viewpoint about good or bad politics, but I am not too sure what's your beef and bugbear with FISCA when your original post was about death penalty and reserves.

The point is TKL was offering suggestions and ideas about them is because he simply wants to win votes. And they are the more hot button issues.

Whether it is good or bad politics, I and you can't tell. It is the end result at the voting booth. You have to take note that although SBF has quite an anti-TKL presence, he has his fair share of adoring fans at Yahoo! news. And Yahoo! news has quite high volume traffic, in fact higher volume than SBF.

It is just politics lar. Sit back, buy some chips, chill and watch the show!

 

[Unrepented]

GMS,

Hundreds, if not thousands of people put in their efforts for opposition in the hope to see more representation in parliment for transparency, accountability and check on policies.

IMO, riding on the opposition bandwagon and marketed as such by the EP candidate's supporters, this approach presents itself as one single target for the pappies to compromise all the major efforts of opposition supporters and what they stand for.

The negative impact on opposition will be disproportionately greater to the efforts required by the pappies now.

Nothing personal but the candidate's background, history, and what I read from varied sources in the media as well as coffee table chat with friends, the candidate who is subtlely implied as opposition representation is an easy target.

The cost to the opposition is greater than the prize.

What makes it more frustrating are that some supporters are knowingly or unknowingly:*: playing this up for their own personal benefits, digging the hole deeper for the opposition's image.

Just my humble POV.

Look at it positively, Scroobal. Even the PAP endorsed candidate Dr Tony Tan is saying that constitution can be changed over time.

What TKL has said may not be exactly what the PAP's constitution wants him to do but he can always push for changes, just like Dr Tony Tan. Most importantly, I think these are valid points, disregarding the constrains of the Constitution, that the President should have certain power and space to work on if this institution is truly set up to safeguard the reserves. I mean, please be realistic, how are you going to "safeguard" something which you don't even know how much there are, where they are and how they are used! Most importantly, you cannot safeguard something if you can't put judgement on whether such monies are invested appropriately or not!

Goh Meng Seng