Tan Cheng Bock will be President

[scroobal]

Actually bro, its the other way around. Intelligence especially the external wing recruitment is of top grad. In Singapore, all honours grads are screened for Intelligence recruitment. They are then invited to Gombak for interview etc. You need smart people unlike Police detectives where you are dealing with criminals. The British used to take only Oxbridge grads and for the Americans , the Ivy league. Eddie Teo was President scholar heading SID. But because of the PAP, Singaporeans are trained to take orders and lack confidence to initiate things.

Imagine a British Intelligence Operative was so smart that he got hold of Indian Govt cabinet papers by treating the cabinet secretary 2 bottles of black label. You ask a Singaporean Intelligence to do the same thing and they will immediately rule it out as high risk. But will spend million of dollars on high tech communication devices for interception. So naturally very strong in remote research and interception but very poor in humint.

The Malaysians managed to compromise an ex-Colonel who was working in a Singapore GLC. We on the other hand pretending that we are high tech and sit on out butt.

Scroobal, off topic a bit. But my impression of spies or people who can move in and out of circles easily, hold fake passports and smile seem more to be people who don't study so well.

When they recruit only people with first class and second upper honours, they basically kill off the good spy material?

 

[longbow]

Wouldn't that make our spys really easy to spot. Lets see - parents with grassroots/PA, scholars, SAF, Presidential, civil service, YPAP? So if a guy with such credentials is poking around then he might be spy.

Scroobal - what's the typical back ground of ISD officials. Do they hire any 5 O level passes type of people?

Scroobal, off topic a bit. But my impression of spies or people who can move in and out of circles easily, hold fake passports and smile seem more to be people who don't study so well.

When they recruit only people with first class and second upper honours, they basically kill off the good spy material?

 

[scroobal]

ISD is internal threat and for this you need people from across the spectrum. There are 2 channels of recruitment. The main channel is from the Police Force from PC to Supt/DAC. It is essentially a Police service. Then you have the Intelligence Service where grads are recruited and usually top grads. They also take from other services such as CNB etc.

The bulk will come from the Police. The screening is very thorough. But it can be a fucking boring job and many people ask for transfer back or leave.

It should also be noted that there are many who are actually informants whoare not in the civil service roll but are paid. These guys think they are Intelligence service but they are actually informants on retainers but the handlers let them think they are part of some elite service. I even know professionals such as lawyers who are on retainer but are actually informants.

So best chance for joining ISD is to join the Police Force.

Scroobal - what's the typical back ground of ISD officials. Do they hire any 5 O level passes type of people?

 

[karmabear]

Damn it!!! Why is it so hard to be a spy in ISD? scroobal, I am in private sector doing moderately well. But I want to be recruited as a spy too so I can be a bao toh kia and reveal dirt on people. How do I get ISD to notice my interest?

 

[scroobal]

These guys are so sacred of failure that they fish from a small pool. The west has long changed their approach. Now US, UK , OZ openly advertised in the Press, the internet. etc

Common sense will tell you that you will miss out good quality if you fish from a small pool. SID has since improved, all honours grads are screened now.

Damn it!!! Why is it so hard to be a spy in ISD? scroobal, I am in private sector doing moderately well. But I want to be recruited as a spy too so I can be a bao toh kia and reveal dirt on people. How do I get ISD to notice my interest?

 

[GoldenDragon]

i thot ISD supposed to cover terrorism internationally? Hmm ... no wonder they couldn't find MSK at JB....

This will be an area where there is some overlap. ISD focuses more on internal develoments while SID is supposed to cover the international arena. The former also has to take note of terrorism outside our borders and how it may impact on us internally.

The relationship between the two intel agencies appears cordial but in reality, the opposite exists. One thinks it is more 'superior' than the other. Always the case with intel entities all over the world.

 

[GoldenDragon]

ISD handles everything that is a threat to the country including those who are based overseas. SID's remit is to penetrate foreign countries, entities, supranational entities and even MNCs to glean sensitive intelligence and information to benefit Singapore or to provide leverage to reduce exposure to inherent threat. Unfortunately, we have reared quiet and compliant citizens that they have moved towards research and technicals to avoid taking risks and more importantly looking silly trying to look suave while perspiring as the confidence factor is not there.

Give you a good example. Foreign intelligence operatives using false passports all the time n the course of their work are second nature to them. A Singaporean Intelligence operative will sweat profusely the moment he holds a false document because of the country's strict upbringing. How to walk out the door and look suave and go into the world of high intrigue. There was a chap in Singapore Embassy in Washington that behaved with such fear within the embassy that he stood like a sore thumb to all the staff. There was however exceptions like the late Lim Hang Hing who was gregarious, confident and could blend in another gathering foreign or local. So the natural bent is to move toward research for convenience. Naturally the output is a report that came to the conclusion that Obama is unelectable.

Very, very true. That's why you hardly get a breakthrough from both services. For the very simple tasks accomplished, they think they performed a miracle.

Yes, our upbringing, socialisation process and fear of the law are some factors hindering us from becoming respected in the field of intelligence. You need mavericks to perform these tasks. Not SAF trained minds. Our chaps fear their own shadows. How to succeed?

 

[GoldenDragon]

Sorry, I am a total newbie to these matters. Basically, ISD/SID... the main design is to fuck singaporeans backside.

................ if you are perceived as a 'threat' to the establishment.

 

[GoldenDragon]

The Malaysians managed to compromise an ex-Colonel who was working in a Singapore GLC. We on the other hand pretending that we are high tech and sit on out butt.

Subject was compromised in the late 70s and we only discovered it by accident almost 2 decades later. Proper screening would have detected this traitor much earlier. How was he able to afford to live in a GCB with a nice pool when he was only a retired Col? Many sleeping intel officers facilitated his betrayal.

Father-in-law of an Ambassador also sold us to our northern neighbours. What a joke!

 

[GoldenDragon]

ISD is internal threat and for this you need people from across the spectrum. There are 2 channels of recruitment. The main channel is from the Police Force from PC to Supt/DAC. It is essentially a Police service. Then you have the Intelligence Service where grads are recruited and usually top grads. They also take from other services such as CNB etc.

The bulk will come from the Police. The screening is very thorough. But it can be a fucking boring job and many people ask for transfer back or leave.

It should also be noted that there are many who are actually informants whoare not in the civil service roll but are paid. These guys think they are Intelligence service but they are actually informants on retainers but the handlers let them think they are part of some elite service. I even know professionals such as lawyers who are on retainer but are actually informants.

So best chance for joining ISD is to join the Police Force.

In the late 90s or early 2000, the majority of these senior police officers were converted to the intel scheme. The benefits were much better (similar to SID's) and one need not pass IPPT to be considered for promotion. Those left out suffered from morale problems. The junior officers remained as police officers.

One Malay CNB Supt joined ISD. A retired CPIB Asst Director joined too. A retired CAD Dy Director too. A great place for retirement.

 

[GoldenDragon]

It should also be noted that there are many who are actually informants whoare not in the civil service roll but are paid. These guys think they are Intelligence service but they are actually informants on retainers but the handlers let them think they are part of some elite service. I even know professionals such as lawyers who are on retainer but are actually informants.

Some of these jokers perform very low level tasks but think whatever they do will impact on national security. They are like frogs in a well.

Well done, bro. Read your previous posts and you have succinctly summarised the work of our top secret department.

 

[GoldenDragon]

SID has since improved, all honours grads are screened now.

They are polygraphed too.

 

[Einfield]

I would love to see them do that, it will only confirm that TCb is the right guy and at least 40% of the population will be behind him, no matter what shit they try to dig, PAP aleady loss credibility in so many cases like TPL, Jurong Town Council etc, so people are watching their every move, match every word the say to their actions, so let's see if they dare to play dirty.

I have no doubt that PAP will have plans for TCB. If he turns out to be an obedient dog, all is well. If he dares to be an unruly cur, the party will whack him. Retired still have family mah... SID will be digging up dirt on the entire family to gather ammunition.

 

[scroobal]

This was indeed a joke. Failure of MSD as well. One of the key roles of external intelligence is to find out if locals are selling stuff to foreign govts. One very good way is to cultivate sources in these govt so we can find out if materials that are classified are surfacing over there. But then again SID will give excuse that they are focusing on research and technicals.

The final conclusion of the inquiry was that they were surprised that Malaysian Intelligence was prepared to offer big money to compromise locals.

Subject was compromised in the late 70s and we only discovered it by accident almost 2 decades later. Proper screening would have detected this traitor much earlier. How was he able to afford to live in a GCB with a nice pool when he was only a retired Col? Many sleeping intel officers facilitated his betrayal.

Father-in-law of an Ambassador also sold us to our northern neighbours. What a joke!

 

[scroobal]

This rivalry was played out in the court in camera during the Offical Secrets Act involving Manu Baskaran. Manu after his scholarship went to ISD but later was enticed by SID to cross-over. There was fight between MHA and MID over this. When ISD took on the case, all out on Manu. The testimony was comical. They went on the basis that Manu being a trained Intelligence man holding sr rank would know that flash GDP figures are highly sensitive. They fell on their face, when it was subsequently found outside the trial when it was Perm Sec that revealed the figures to a chiobu reporter in BT.

The relationship between the two intel agencies appears cordial but in reality, the opposite exists. One thinks it is more 'superior' than the other. Always the case with intel entities all over the world.

 

[scroobal]

The whole construct is wrong for SID. They are in MID because it is a perfect cover and their budget and expenses cannot be seen by anyone even by Parliament. When SAF became the blue eyed boy of the Govt under Goh and it was agreed that MID budget will be given a % of GDP and no questions asked, these guys became very comfortable from then on.

They should be reporting to MFA like most Intelligence service as one typically use their embassies as the staging the area. Though we do the same but they came under MID and MFA and the ambassador have no clue or control.

The other poor habit is to use businesses of Singaporeans overseas as staging points but due to fear of failure, they will chose those Singaporeans who are close to the govt establishment. They must think that the Malaysians, Singaporeans and Indos are stupid. In Malaysia, they put a chap in org whose main man who was associated with Feedback Unit.

So the end result is long reports that are well done political analysis done by highly educated chaps who don't drink, don't socialise but like to to escort visiting singapore dignitaries in order to increase their promotional aspect. Forget about penetrating the foreign govt or turning key targets. Can you imagine that an Intelligence chap based in a certain country is well know for his ability to find the best Singapore style food or ability to find a housewife who migrated long time but is renown for her popiah.

I tell you how comfortable they are. They are so lazy that they will meet contacts within the immediate vicinity of the office. The starbucks at Suntec city might as well have a loyalty programme with SID. This is where ISD is much much better. They meet contacts in Kelong,brothels, hospital and god knows where - a legacy of being British trained special branch.

Even till today when a friendly foreign govt chap calls me to say that he is dropping by to meet these chaps, I can more or less can tell him where the meet is. That is because life is so comfortable. If it meals, Raffles or Seah Street eateries.

Ask them how many high value target have been compromised - none. Low value targets, plenty.

Very, very true. That's why you hardly get a breakthrough from both services. For the very simple tasks accomplished, they think they performed a miracle.

Yes, our upbringing, socialisation process and fear of the law are some factors hindering us from becoming respected in the field of intelligence. You need mavericks to perform these tasks. Not SAF trained minds. Our chaps fear their own shadows. How to succeed?

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroo

A little known intelligence historical fact stretching back all the days to the FECB is that Singapore was a centre for SIGINT under the British and subsequently GCHQ and DID. When they left all the facilities were handed over lock stock and barrel to the SG Gov. That ability remains to this day. Desmond Ball an AN ANU academic and Google Earth have detailed analysis and pictures of SIGINT installations. Google earth wiil show Singtel Stations which bear no technical relavance to Singtel and Satellite dishes. Currently we have been rumoured to be sponsers of the latest hi tech Israeli Geo-Synchronous Spy Satellites which allows us tasking time live as it speeds past out part of the earth on its way to the Middle East.

We have been excellent in technicals but apparently less so in HUMINT. The last case that came to light was when we were caught by the Malaysians. The Brits who I studied with had a saying about intelligence and intelligence gathering, " We need gentleman to do a scoundrels work," not a "scoundrel to do a scoundrels work". Problem is we have "tried" and succeeded in getting " scholars to do a scoundrels work.

Locke

This was indeed a joke. Failure of MSD as well. One of the key roles of external intelligence is to find out if locals are selling stuff to foreign govts. One very good way is to cultivate sources in these govt so we can find out if materials that are classified are surfacing over there. But then again SID will give excuse that they are focusing on research and technicals.

The final conclusion of the inquiry was that they were surprised that Malaysian Intelligence was prepared to offer big money to compromise locals.

 

[ivebert]

Damn Xia Suay

ISD is a Sinkie organization used to fuck Sinkies

What a fucking joke

CIA fuck outsiders
ISD fuck their own chinks

Yew..............

 

[borom]

ISD ..... SID's.... however exceptions like the late Lim Hang Hing who was gregarious, confident and could blend in another gathering foreign or local......

I think this thread no longer about President but ISD?SID.
Seems the late LHH was so well regarded that his rank was supposedly higher than that of the Ambassador and a scholarship was set up in his name.

But it perplexed me that Singapore companies including GLC 's invested and lost billions in Thailand and relationship with Thailand not exactly the best.Did they not listen to his advice?

 

[scroobal]

Yep. ..........

I think this thread no longer about President but ISD?SID.
Seems the late LHH was so well regarded that his rank was supposedly higher than that of the Ambassador and a scholarship was set up in his name.

?