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Summary of Why Greeks/Italy are in Deep Shits
- Thread starter neddy
- Start date
The realreason is, their taxes,are too high, that's why people evade tax
a nation of turks and crooks, own money pay money, if you do not produce the wealth, do not spend like european countries. poor countries have to spend less, no money dun buy.
EU should confiscate their land and buildings to pay the banks.
The level of welfare payout they have is illogical. They end up having to tax crazily, thats why people evade taxes.
The real problem is the flawed welfare system.
The Singapore system is much better and sustainable.
There is just no solution to the Greek problem unless they are willing to sell their islands to raise billions w/o priting money, cut back drastically the welfare payouts, liberalise the economy and change employment, tax and investment laws.
sell islands? better to sell the acropolis and all the ancient greek statues and vases. send their women to be whores, but they must pay back the banks in France and Germany.
Begger cannot be choosy. The whole countries full of tax dodgers and crooks.
Greece's debt soars £20bn in three months... New crisis could bring break-up of euro closer
Greece's debt has soared by nearly £20billion in three months, as European leaders were given fresh warnings to brace themselves for the break-up of the Eurozone.
The crisis-hit country now has central government debts of £238billion. This is £18billion more than the £220billion owed at the end of the first quarter of this year.
Government debt in Greece peaked at the end of last year, hitting £289billion.
The country has been struggling with financial collapse since late 2009, and has relied on rescue loans from the International Monetary Fund and other Eurozone nations.
If Greece leads the European Union into a break-up of the single currency more than £100billion could be wiped from Britain’s economy.
As the Mail revealed this week, government sources have deep fears over the impact on British GDP if Greece runs out of money next week. Forty per cent of Britain’s trade is with Eurozone countries.
Details of Greece’s vast debts were revealed as Finland’s foreign minister, Erkki Tuomioja, warned that Eurozone members should be prepared for the collapse of the currency. Mr Tuomioja warned that Europe would be plunged into a recession by its crippling debts. He said that Finland, which has a triple-A credit rating, supported the euro but that Europe was in ‘a very unstable situation’ in which every country should be prepared for the worst.
‘Our government is doing everything it can to save the euro and manage the crisis but what is obvious in every country is that everybody has to be also prepared for the worst eventualities. It would be irresponsible otherwise,’ he said.
He denied Finland was preparing to leave the euro, but said that ‘Finland too is assessing what would happen’ if the eurozone collapses.
As the only Nordic country in the Eurozone, wealthy Finland’s support is vital.
Mr Tuomioja added that the five million-strong nation was ‘if not eurosceptic, at least euro-realistic’.
Meanwhile the party on course to win the Dutch general election next month has pledged to hold a referendum on the country’s arrangements with the EU.
Emile Roemer, the leader of the Socialist Party, told a newspaper that any further transfers of sovereignty to the EU would need to be agreed by a public vote.
A spokesman for the party said this would include the fiscal pact which was drawn up by the EU to impose stricter rules on member countries in an effort to stave off future debt crises.
He said: ‘Economic policy can and must not be reduced to a set of rules which prescribe debt reduction. We . . . will resist the treaty on stability, co-ordination and governance.’
Under EU ratification rules, the Netherlands’ backing is not required. But as one of the Eurozone’s richest members, its absence would be significant.
A fresh impasse is expected when Greek prime minister Antonis Samaras demands a two-year extension to his country’s austerity programme when he meets German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande next week.
German officials have made it clear that they have no intention of giving extra money to Athens since taxpayers are furious about bailing out a nation where workers are less productive and retire earlier.
Greece's debt has soared by nearly £20billion in three months, as European leaders were given fresh warnings to brace themselves for the break-up of the Eurozone.
The crisis-hit country now has central government debts of £238billion. This is £18billion more than the £220billion owed at the end of the first quarter of this year.
Government debt in Greece peaked at the end of last year, hitting £289billion.
The country has been struggling with financial collapse since late 2009, and has relied on rescue loans from the International Monetary Fund and other Eurozone nations.
If Greece leads the European Union into a break-up of the single currency more than £100billion could be wiped from Britain’s economy.
As the Mail revealed this week, government sources have deep fears over the impact on British GDP if Greece runs out of money next week. Forty per cent of Britain’s trade is with Eurozone countries.
Details of Greece’s vast debts were revealed as Finland’s foreign minister, Erkki Tuomioja, warned that Eurozone members should be prepared for the collapse of the currency. Mr Tuomioja warned that Europe would be plunged into a recession by its crippling debts. He said that Finland, which has a triple-A credit rating, supported the euro but that Europe was in ‘a very unstable situation’ in which every country should be prepared for the worst.
‘Our government is doing everything it can to save the euro and manage the crisis but what is obvious in every country is that everybody has to be also prepared for the worst eventualities. It would be irresponsible otherwise,’ he said.
He denied Finland was preparing to leave the euro, but said that ‘Finland too is assessing what would happen’ if the eurozone collapses.
As the only Nordic country in the Eurozone, wealthy Finland’s support is vital.
Mr Tuomioja added that the five million-strong nation was ‘if not eurosceptic, at least euro-realistic’.
Meanwhile the party on course to win the Dutch general election next month has pledged to hold a referendum on the country’s arrangements with the EU.
Emile Roemer, the leader of the Socialist Party, told a newspaper that any further transfers of sovereignty to the EU would need to be agreed by a public vote.
A spokesman for the party said this would include the fiscal pact which was drawn up by the EU to impose stricter rules on member countries in an effort to stave off future debt crises.
He said: ‘Economic policy can and must not be reduced to a set of rules which prescribe debt reduction. We . . . will resist the treaty on stability, co-ordination and governance.’
Under EU ratification rules, the Netherlands’ backing is not required. But as one of the Eurozone’s richest members, its absence would be significant.
A fresh impasse is expected when Greek prime minister Antonis Samaras demands a two-year extension to his country’s austerity programme when he meets German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande next week.
German officials have made it clear that they have no intention of giving extra money to Athens since taxpayers are furious about bailing out a nation where workers are less productive and retire earlier.
Who they think they are , Greece are just turks.
Obviously they did not cheat their whole life by not paying enough taxes. Kick them out of EU already.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greece's pensioners face looming poverty
Greece's elderly are seeing the value of their pensions plummet amid austerity cuts
Leo is a stout 64-year-old whose twinkly eyes are framed by a mane of long grey hair and a bushy beard.
Last year, unable to make ends meet, he joined the ever-growing numbers of homeless on the streets of Athens.
Although his son, who is in his 20s, supports Leo in every way he can, his own circumstances prevent him being able to house his father.
After paying all his National Insurance contributions throughout his working life, he was expecting a comfortable retirement.
But the austerity measures of the last few years mean his pension has been slashed by 60% and the government is considering still more cuts.
What is more, if the government goes through with its latest proposal to raise the retirement age, he could have to wait another year or two before he sees any benefits.
"I feel like they just stole my money," he says.
Leo counts himself lucky because he has a bed in a homeless shelter
"If I had saved all those payments in a bank account I would be rich by now; where has it all gone?"
Earlier this year the former minister for social security, Antonis Roupakiotis, warned that with government finances in such a poor state they would probably run out of money for pensions by the end of summer.
"Based on the data we have, pensioners should be worried," he told reporters.
Although the situation has been exacerbated by the current crisis, the Greek state pension system has long been seen as unsustainable.
When representatives from the EU and the IMF began visiting Greece in early 2010 they were shocked to learn that the Greek government did not have a clear idea of how many pensioners it had on its books.
In the summer of 2011, after an initial census of pensions was carried out, around 32,000 claimants were found to be bogus.
The government is now in the process of carrying out a second census and hopes to save up to 800m euros (£626m) per year by clamping down on even more fraudulent pensions.
'Red line'
But for those, like Leo, who expected to see decent returns for their contributions to the scheme, the future looks bleak.
"Pensioners can't take any more, a red line has been crossed and things are now simply terrible," says the president of the Greek Federation of Bank Pensioners, Ignatios Pliakos.
The government has been warned if cuts continue then more elderly will take to the streets to protest
His organisation counts many among its members who have ended up below the poverty line.
"I've lived through the military dictatorship when we didn't have freedom but people were not hungry then; this is the worst suffering we have seen in our lifetimes," he says.
Alongside shrinking pensions the elderly have been hard hit by rising income taxes, increases in VAT and a list of emergency and solidarity taxes.
While the coalition government has recently announced cuts will be gradual in an attempt to ease hardship, it is still expected to make at least 11.5bn euros of savings over the next two years, with 5.2bn euros shaved from pension and welfare budgets.
To make matters even worse, it is the oldest generations who are most seriously affected by the cuts in the national healthcare system.
One of the proposals currently under consideration by the Greek government is a cap of 1,500 euros (£1,175) per person each year for free health care provision; the elderly - who tend to use hospitals and doctors most frequently - would be hit hardest.
The charity Doctors of the World has started a new scheme focused entirely on older people in response to the growing numbers approaching them for assistance.
At the organisation's Perama clinic, people sit on plastic chairs and crowd the hall, quietly waiting for their turn to receive medicine and food parcels.
Artemis Lianou, who is in charge of the scheme, says many of those who come to the centre are trying to survive on as little as 200 or 300 euros a month.
"One 65-year-old we saw recently had diabetes and a heart condition but he could not afford any of the life-saving medicine he needs," she explained.
"His daughter was unemployed and struggling to look after her own children and so he was completely without support."
Rise in suicides
Traditionally close ties among Greek families have meant that the elderly were cared for by the next generation but with unemployment skyrocketing among the young that social order is fast breaking down, leaving the old to fend for themselves.
Research conducted by Professor Manos Matsaganis of the Athens University of Economics and Business shows that in 2010 and 2011 cuts in pension benefits were one of the primary contributors to a 50% rise in poverty rates.
He says the Greek government should have been looking for savings among those who were retiring too early or claiming extortionate sums.
Many of Greece's pensioners are having to survive on less and less money
"They should have done more to protect poorer pensioners, instead we have seen them hardest hit and the poverty rate among the elderly has increased."
One of the most shocking public manifestations of that poverty is the now common sight of old men and women rifling through rubbish bins in the street.
For some people the stress and indignity is too much to cope with.
In June, residents of the wealthy Athens suburb of Kifissia were woken up in the early hours of the morning by a loud noise. When they went out to investigate they found one of their neighbours, Sotiris Nikolopoulos, lying in a pool of blood in the street.
The 77-year-old pensioner had walked a few hundred metres from his house and shot himself with a hunting rifle; he died instantly.
In the suicide note the father-of-two left behind he blamed the government's austerity measures which he said left him unable to cope financially.
Cases like these still have the ability to shock the public but they are no longer unusual.
Until recently Greece had one of the lowest suicide rates in the European Union but in the last two years suicides have increased by 40% and more than 2,000 people have taken their lives, many of them from the older generations.
Earlier this year, the very public suicide of another pensioner opposite the Greek parliament led to mass protests on the streets.
Mr Pliakos, the pensioners' representative, predicts that if the government goes ahead with further cuts to the pension system the relatively small protests by the elderly in recent months will increase.
"There's going to be an explosion of desperate people, they are going to take to the streets and it is going to be chaos," he says.
Obviously they did not cheat their whole life by not paying enough taxes. Kick them out of EU already.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greece's pensioners face looming poverty
Greece's elderly are seeing the value of their pensions plummet amid austerity cuts
Leo is a stout 64-year-old whose twinkly eyes are framed by a mane of long grey hair and a bushy beard.
Last year, unable to make ends meet, he joined the ever-growing numbers of homeless on the streets of Athens.
Although his son, who is in his 20s, supports Leo in every way he can, his own circumstances prevent him being able to house his father.
After paying all his National Insurance contributions throughout his working life, he was expecting a comfortable retirement.
But the austerity measures of the last few years mean his pension has been slashed by 60% and the government is considering still more cuts.
What is more, if the government goes through with its latest proposal to raise the retirement age, he could have to wait another year or two before he sees any benefits.
"I feel like they just stole my money," he says.
Leo counts himself lucky because he has a bed in a homeless shelter
"If I had saved all those payments in a bank account I would be rich by now; where has it all gone?"
Earlier this year the former minister for social security, Antonis Roupakiotis, warned that with government finances in such a poor state they would probably run out of money for pensions by the end of summer.
"Based on the data we have, pensioners should be worried," he told reporters.
Although the situation has been exacerbated by the current crisis, the Greek state pension system has long been seen as unsustainable.
When representatives from the EU and the IMF began visiting Greece in early 2010 they were shocked to learn that the Greek government did not have a clear idea of how many pensioners it had on its books.
In the summer of 2011, after an initial census of pensions was carried out, around 32,000 claimants were found to be bogus.
The government is now in the process of carrying out a second census and hopes to save up to 800m euros (£626m) per year by clamping down on even more fraudulent pensions.
'Red line'
But for those, like Leo, who expected to see decent returns for their contributions to the scheme, the future looks bleak.
"Pensioners can't take any more, a red line has been crossed and things are now simply terrible," says the president of the Greek Federation of Bank Pensioners, Ignatios Pliakos.
The government has been warned if cuts continue then more elderly will take to the streets to protest
His organisation counts many among its members who have ended up below the poverty line.
"I've lived through the military dictatorship when we didn't have freedom but people were not hungry then; this is the worst suffering we have seen in our lifetimes," he says.
Alongside shrinking pensions the elderly have been hard hit by rising income taxes, increases in VAT and a list of emergency and solidarity taxes.
While the coalition government has recently announced cuts will be gradual in an attempt to ease hardship, it is still expected to make at least 11.5bn euros of savings over the next two years, with 5.2bn euros shaved from pension and welfare budgets.
To make matters even worse, it is the oldest generations who are most seriously affected by the cuts in the national healthcare system.
One of the proposals currently under consideration by the Greek government is a cap of 1,500 euros (£1,175) per person each year for free health care provision; the elderly - who tend to use hospitals and doctors most frequently - would be hit hardest.
The charity Doctors of the World has started a new scheme focused entirely on older people in response to the growing numbers approaching them for assistance.
At the organisation's Perama clinic, people sit on plastic chairs and crowd the hall, quietly waiting for their turn to receive medicine and food parcels.
Artemis Lianou, who is in charge of the scheme, says many of those who come to the centre are trying to survive on as little as 200 or 300 euros a month.
"One 65-year-old we saw recently had diabetes and a heart condition but he could not afford any of the life-saving medicine he needs," she explained.
"His daughter was unemployed and struggling to look after her own children and so he was completely without support."
Rise in suicides
Traditionally close ties among Greek families have meant that the elderly were cared for by the next generation but with unemployment skyrocketing among the young that social order is fast breaking down, leaving the old to fend for themselves.
Research conducted by Professor Manos Matsaganis of the Athens University of Economics and Business shows that in 2010 and 2011 cuts in pension benefits were one of the primary contributors to a 50% rise in poverty rates.
He says the Greek government should have been looking for savings among those who were retiring too early or claiming extortionate sums.
Many of Greece's pensioners are having to survive on less and less money
"They should have done more to protect poorer pensioners, instead we have seen them hardest hit and the poverty rate among the elderly has increased."
One of the most shocking public manifestations of that poverty is the now common sight of old men and women rifling through rubbish bins in the street.
For some people the stress and indignity is too much to cope with.
In June, residents of the wealthy Athens suburb of Kifissia were woken up in the early hours of the morning by a loud noise. When they went out to investigate they found one of their neighbours, Sotiris Nikolopoulos, lying in a pool of blood in the street.
The 77-year-old pensioner had walked a few hundred metres from his house and shot himself with a hunting rifle; he died instantly.
In the suicide note the father-of-two left behind he blamed the government's austerity measures which he said left him unable to cope financially.
Cases like these still have the ability to shock the public but they are no longer unusual.
Until recently Greece had one of the lowest suicide rates in the European Union but in the last two years suicides have increased by 40% and more than 2,000 people have taken their lives, many of them from the older generations.
Earlier this year, the very public suicide of another pensioner opposite the Greek parliament led to mass protests on the streets.
Mr Pliakos, the pensioners' representative, predicts that if the government goes ahead with further cuts to the pension system the relatively small protests by the elderly in recent months will increase.
"There's going to be an explosion of desperate people, they are going to take to the streets and it is going to be chaos," he says.
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Just tell the truth, you can never paid off the debt. Your citizen are lazy, work less, less productivity, retired early and everyone in the country cheat in taxes.
Somebody please kick the greek out and kick all greek citizen in EU once Greece are expel from EU.
so these people can go back to their beloved greece, and student in university have to ask to pay or leave too.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greece needs more time for cuts, says PM Samaras
Prime Minister Antonis Samaras is under pressure to convince the eurozone leaders of Greece's efforts
Mr Samaras told German daily Bild that Greece needed "breathing space".
He will meet Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the Eurogroup of finance ministers later, and the French and German leaders later this week.
At issue is whether Greece has done enough to receive its next instalment of loans worth 31.5bn euros (£24.7bn).
Failure to unlock the funds could lead to Greece defaulting on its vast public debt and possibly leaving the euro.
Under the terms of the bailout agreement with Europe and the International Monetary Fund (IMF), Greece needs to demonstrate it can find 11.5bn euros in public spending cuts within two years in order to qualify for the money.
At the talks with Mr Juncker, he is expected to float the idea of Greece being given a two-year extension to the deadline.
The eurozone crisis can feel like watching a road crash in slow motion, very slow motion.
The Greeks are still lobbying hard for more time to find the cuts that are necessary if it is to win the next tranche of international aid that it desperately needs.
And as the traditional torpor of the balmy Mediterranean summer holidays begins to draw to a close politicians are returning to their desks in the continents' capitals and enquiring about the health of the eurozone.
As the poet said: "Across the wires the electric message came: 'He is no better. He is much the same.'"
And that is the problem the crisis in the eurozone has been pretty constant for years now, no treatment seems to make it better, but the illness doesn't seem capable of killing the patient either.
But quietly things may be coming to a head.
The Greek government will be desperate for a positive report from the troika as it knows full well that the willingness of northern Europeans to give it more time and more money is wearing thinner and thinner, and the longer the crisis continues the more time they have had to prepare for a Greek exit.
The real danger for the Greek Government is that the rest of the eurozone decides that, upon reflection, they could survive without Greece after all.
He will argue that Greece has lost time because of elections this year, and that it should be allowed to move more gradually in order to ease the economic pain felt by the Greek people, the BBC's Mark Lowen reports from Athens.
"Let me be very explicit: we demand no additional money. We stand by our commitments," Mr Samaras told German tabloid Bild in an interview published on Wednesday.
"But we have to kick-start growth in order to cut our deficit. All that we want is a little 'breathing space' to revive the economy quickly and raise state income."
There are also reports that due to the worsening state of the economy, which affects tax receipts and welfare spending levels, Greece may now need to find savings of up to 13.5bn euros, 2bn more than thought.
A government source told our correspondent that Mr Samaras would not press the issue of an extension too hard, fearing it might cause bad blood with the group of lenders that monitors Greece's bailout.
Speaking to the BBC, Yannis Varoufakis, professor of economics at the University of Athens, said Mr Samaras was "profoundly, deeply and sadly wrong".
"Greece does not need more breathing space. It is not breathing at all."
He said the solution Europe had implemented to tackle Greece's insolvency crisis was a "very silly one" - providing gigantic loans "on condition of austerity measures that would shrink the national income from which that huge loan would have to be repaid", requiring yet more loans and more austerity.
According to Constantine Michalos, president of the Athens Chamber of Commerce, the breathing space Mr Samaras wants is political rather than economic, as having extra time to repay may make the country's problems worse.
"Whether it is two or three-year extension, that would mean that there is an additional bill in terms of interest," he told the BBC.
"What is the point of extending the total bill in terms of the total debt, when you haven't got in place the right mechanisms to stimulate the economy, to return to the path of growth that you in need to in order to be able to finance the debt that you are trying to service?" he asked.
He said it would be "extremely difficult, if not impossible", to find savings of 11.5bn euros in time, as Athens was starting to implement the measures too late.
"Lay-offs [in the public sector] should have started gradually two years ago.
"Now we need to have 150,000 lay-offs by the end of next year. In terms of social cohesion it is going to be an extremely difficult September coming up," Mr Michalos said.
Europe presses ahead
Mr Samaras goes on to meet German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Friday, and French President Francois Hollande on Saturday to discuss the issue.
Eurozone leaders have so far resisted any move to soften the bailout conditions, especially in Germany, where the government is under pressure not to make any more concessions.
"We have clear agreements between the troika and Greece, and Greece has to fulfil these agreements," Michael Fuchs, deputy chairman of the parliamentary group of the governing CDU party told the BBC.
He said it looked as though Greece had not been able to fulfil its promises, such as privatising 50bn-euros worth of state assets.
"If the troika tells us they did what they have to do then of course we will [continue with] the programmes. If not it is very difficult," he said.
But BBC Berlin correspondent Stephen Evans says Germany did have some room for manoeuvre.
Publicly, Germany is saying it cannot put money into a bottomless barrel, which is not quite saying that if there is any slippage there will not be any more money, our correspondent says.
The heavily-indebted country has received two massive EU and IMF bailouts - one for 130bn euros this March and one for 100bn euros in May 2010 - to allow it to continue payments on its vast public debt and stay in the eurozone.
Somebody please kick the greek out and kick all greek citizen in EU once Greece are expel from EU.
so these people can go back to their beloved greece, and student in university have to ask to pay or leave too.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greece needs more time for cuts, says PM Samaras
Prime Minister Antonis Samaras is under pressure to convince the eurozone leaders of Greece's efforts
Mr Samaras told German daily Bild that Greece needed "breathing space".
He will meet Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the Eurogroup of finance ministers later, and the French and German leaders later this week.
At issue is whether Greece has done enough to receive its next instalment of loans worth 31.5bn euros (£24.7bn).
Failure to unlock the funds could lead to Greece defaulting on its vast public debt and possibly leaving the euro.
Under the terms of the bailout agreement with Europe and the International Monetary Fund (IMF), Greece needs to demonstrate it can find 11.5bn euros in public spending cuts within two years in order to qualify for the money.
At the talks with Mr Juncker, he is expected to float the idea of Greece being given a two-year extension to the deadline.
The eurozone crisis can feel like watching a road crash in slow motion, very slow motion.
The Greeks are still lobbying hard for more time to find the cuts that are necessary if it is to win the next tranche of international aid that it desperately needs.
And as the traditional torpor of the balmy Mediterranean summer holidays begins to draw to a close politicians are returning to their desks in the continents' capitals and enquiring about the health of the eurozone.
As the poet said: "Across the wires the electric message came: 'He is no better. He is much the same.'"
And that is the problem the crisis in the eurozone has been pretty constant for years now, no treatment seems to make it better, but the illness doesn't seem capable of killing the patient either.
But quietly things may be coming to a head.
The Greek government will be desperate for a positive report from the troika as it knows full well that the willingness of northern Europeans to give it more time and more money is wearing thinner and thinner, and the longer the crisis continues the more time they have had to prepare for a Greek exit.
The real danger for the Greek Government is that the rest of the eurozone decides that, upon reflection, they could survive without Greece after all.
He will argue that Greece has lost time because of elections this year, and that it should be allowed to move more gradually in order to ease the economic pain felt by the Greek people, the BBC's Mark Lowen reports from Athens.
"Let me be very explicit: we demand no additional money. We stand by our commitments," Mr Samaras told German tabloid Bild in an interview published on Wednesday.
"But we have to kick-start growth in order to cut our deficit. All that we want is a little 'breathing space' to revive the economy quickly and raise state income."
There are also reports that due to the worsening state of the economy, which affects tax receipts and welfare spending levels, Greece may now need to find savings of up to 13.5bn euros, 2bn more than thought.
A government source told our correspondent that Mr Samaras would not press the issue of an extension too hard, fearing it might cause bad blood with the group of lenders that monitors Greece's bailout.
Speaking to the BBC, Yannis Varoufakis, professor of economics at the University of Athens, said Mr Samaras was "profoundly, deeply and sadly wrong".
"Greece does not need more breathing space. It is not breathing at all."
He said the solution Europe had implemented to tackle Greece's insolvency crisis was a "very silly one" - providing gigantic loans "on condition of austerity measures that would shrink the national income from which that huge loan would have to be repaid", requiring yet more loans and more austerity.
According to Constantine Michalos, president of the Athens Chamber of Commerce, the breathing space Mr Samaras wants is political rather than economic, as having extra time to repay may make the country's problems worse.
"Whether it is two or three-year extension, that would mean that there is an additional bill in terms of interest," he told the BBC.
"What is the point of extending the total bill in terms of the total debt, when you haven't got in place the right mechanisms to stimulate the economy, to return to the path of growth that you in need to in order to be able to finance the debt that you are trying to service?" he asked.
He said it would be "extremely difficult, if not impossible", to find savings of 11.5bn euros in time, as Athens was starting to implement the measures too late.
"Lay-offs [in the public sector] should have started gradually two years ago.
"Now we need to have 150,000 lay-offs by the end of next year. In terms of social cohesion it is going to be an extremely difficult September coming up," Mr Michalos said.
Europe presses ahead
Mr Samaras goes on to meet German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Friday, and French President Francois Hollande on Saturday to discuss the issue.
Eurozone leaders have so far resisted any move to soften the bailout conditions, especially in Germany, where the government is under pressure not to make any more concessions.
"We have clear agreements between the troika and Greece, and Greece has to fulfil these agreements," Michael Fuchs, deputy chairman of the parliamentary group of the governing CDU party told the BBC.
He said it looked as though Greece had not been able to fulfil its promises, such as privatising 50bn-euros worth of state assets.
"If the troika tells us they did what they have to do then of course we will [continue with] the programmes. If not it is very difficult," he said.
But BBC Berlin correspondent Stephen Evans says Germany did have some room for manoeuvre.
Publicly, Germany is saying it cannot put money into a bottomless barrel, which is not quite saying that if there is any slippage there will not be any more money, our correspondent says.
The heavily-indebted country has received two massive EU and IMF bailouts - one for 130bn euros this March and one for 100bn euros in May 2010 - to allow it to continue payments on its vast public debt and stay in the eurozone.
The Greeks are in a shithole so deep, I believe they will take a minimum of five years to get out of it. And that is provided they go on a full-blown austerity drive. Greeks are one of the laziest races in Europe.
The Italians are also one of the world's better tax dodgers, but they will still get down and dirty to prevent their country from going to waste.
The Italians are also one of the world's better tax dodgers, but they will still get down and dirty to prevent their country from going to waste.
Greece's last chance - eurozone chief Jean-Claude Juncker
Jean-Claude Juncker: "I personally think ordinary people in Greece have suffered a lot and it would not be advisable to put further demands on them"
Eurozone finance chief Jean-Claude Juncker has said the Greek people have to be aware the country is facing its "last chance".
After a meeting with Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras, Mr Juncker praised the nation's "tremendous efforts" so far to cut its deficit.
But he said "priority number one" was further consolidation of the public finances of Greece.
He added that Athens must put in place economic and structural reforms.
These include changes to the labour market, and the relaunching of privatisation programmes which have been promised but not enacted.
Greek premier Mr Samaras promised that Greece would finalise a package of cuts worth 11.5bn euros ($14bn) in the next few weeks.
The Greek premier wants an extension of up to two years to implement those painful cuts.
Antonis Samaras: "We talked about the serious, decisive efforts we are making as a country"
But Mr Juncker, who is also Luxembourg's Prime Minister, said a decision on that would depend on a report from Greece's main lenders, due next month.
"I have to underline this will depend on the findings of the troika mission and we have to discuss the length of the period and other dimensions," Mr Juncker told a news conference while sitting alongside Mr Samaras.
'Fruitful' talks
The troika of international lenders - the European Central Bank, the International Monetary Fund and the European Commission - will return to Greece next month to assess whether the country is on target to meet the conditions of its bailout.
Mr Samaras said he had also told Mr Juncker that Greece was serious about tackling tax evasion, while at the same time looking to provide security for its citizens.
"I talked to him about the serious, active, measures we are making as a country," Mr Samaras said.
He said that the three parties of the ruling coalition were also fully behind the package of cuts being implemented.
The Greek premier also said that his country was "turning the page, economically, politically and socially".
"The meeting was very fruitful," Mr Samaras added. "He [Mr Juncker] was able to update us about... the expectations that Europe has for Greece."
He said as well as Greece's debt, the pair also discussed the availability of finances for Greek businesses, with Mr Samaras saying that small and medium-sized firms in the country were "asphyxiating" because of a lack of funds.
On the wider issue of whether there was a danger of Greece leaving the euro, Mr Samaras said he was "confident that all those betting on a Greek exit - undermining our efforts - will be proven wrong".
"We will prove them wrong through our deeds, not just our words," he added.
And Mr Juncker also said that he was "totally opposed" to a Greek exit from the eurozone.
Later this week Mr Samaras will also meet Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande.
At issue during the week of talks is whether Greece will receive its next instalment of loans worth 31.5bn euros that it needs to avoid defaulting on its vast public debts.
Under the terms of the bailout agreement, Greece needs to demonstrate it can find 11.5bn euros in public spending cuts within two years in order to qualify for the money.
There are also reports that due to the worsening state of the economy, which affects tax receipts and welfare spending levels, Greece may now need to find savings of up to 13.5bn euros, 2bn more than thought.
Eurozone leaders have so far resisted any move to soften the bailout conditions, especially in Germany, where the government is under pressure not to make any more concessions.
Jean-Claude Juncker: "I personally think ordinary people in Greece have suffered a lot and it would not be advisable to put further demands on them"
Eurozone finance chief Jean-Claude Juncker has said the Greek people have to be aware the country is facing its "last chance".
After a meeting with Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras, Mr Juncker praised the nation's "tremendous efforts" so far to cut its deficit.
But he said "priority number one" was further consolidation of the public finances of Greece.
He added that Athens must put in place economic and structural reforms.
These include changes to the labour market, and the relaunching of privatisation programmes which have been promised but not enacted.
Greek premier Mr Samaras promised that Greece would finalise a package of cuts worth 11.5bn euros ($14bn) in the next few weeks.
The Greek premier wants an extension of up to two years to implement those painful cuts.
Antonis Samaras: "We talked about the serious, decisive efforts we are making as a country"
But Mr Juncker, who is also Luxembourg's Prime Minister, said a decision on that would depend on a report from Greece's main lenders, due next month.
"I have to underline this will depend on the findings of the troika mission and we have to discuss the length of the period and other dimensions," Mr Juncker told a news conference while sitting alongside Mr Samaras.
'Fruitful' talks
The troika of international lenders - the European Central Bank, the International Monetary Fund and the European Commission - will return to Greece next month to assess whether the country is on target to meet the conditions of its bailout.
Mr Samaras said he had also told Mr Juncker that Greece was serious about tackling tax evasion, while at the same time looking to provide security for its citizens.
"I talked to him about the serious, active, measures we are making as a country," Mr Samaras said.
He said that the three parties of the ruling coalition were also fully behind the package of cuts being implemented.
The Greek premier also said that his country was "turning the page, economically, politically and socially".
"The meeting was very fruitful," Mr Samaras added. "He [Mr Juncker] was able to update us about... the expectations that Europe has for Greece."
He said as well as Greece's debt, the pair also discussed the availability of finances for Greek businesses, with Mr Samaras saying that small and medium-sized firms in the country were "asphyxiating" because of a lack of funds.
On the wider issue of whether there was a danger of Greece leaving the euro, Mr Samaras said he was "confident that all those betting on a Greek exit - undermining our efforts - will be proven wrong".
"We will prove them wrong through our deeds, not just our words," he added.
And Mr Juncker also said that he was "totally opposed" to a Greek exit from the eurozone.
Later this week Mr Samaras will also meet Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande.
At issue during the week of talks is whether Greece will receive its next instalment of loans worth 31.5bn euros that it needs to avoid defaulting on its vast public debts.
Under the terms of the bailout agreement, Greece needs to demonstrate it can find 11.5bn euros in public spending cuts within two years in order to qualify for the money.
There are also reports that due to the worsening state of the economy, which affects tax receipts and welfare spending levels, Greece may now need to find savings of up to 13.5bn euros, 2bn more than thought.
Eurozone leaders have so far resisted any move to soften the bailout conditions, especially in Germany, where the government is under pressure not to make any more concessions.
Debtocracy
The documentary mainly focuses on two points: the causes of the Greek debt crisis in 2010 and possible future solutions that could be given to the problem that are not currently being considered by the government of the country.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qKpxPo-lInk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Content summary
1 The Greek debt
2 The case of Argentina
3 The case of Ecuador
4 Solutions to the Greek crisis
more ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtocracy
The documentary mainly focuses on two points: the causes of the Greek debt crisis in 2010 and possible future solutions that could be given to the problem that are not currently being considered by the government of the country.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qKpxPo-lInk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Content summary
1 The Greek debt
2 The case of Argentina
3 The case of Ecuador
4 Solutions to the Greek crisis
more ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtocracy
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The only for these countries to get out of recession is to cut welfare spending on refugees and foreigners. Implement border controls and send those refugees back like africans and eastern europeans etc.
Leave the euro and convert back to their own currency and encourage Foreign investment and re-industralisation, focus on goods local needs and exports as their currency will be lower.
Control housing construction to get housing prices going up. Allow foreigners to purchase property as holiday homes etc..Chinese will love a mansion in the country side. Foreigners can only build new homes giving locals jobs. Once property prices start going up and construction increases, the ripple down effect will be felt,
Keep cutting spending etc will just kill the economy more as there is no way the economy can grow,
But these italians and greeks dont want to leave the euro as they are hanging on to perceived benefits they will never be realised as the krauts and frogs are their paymasters...
Leave the euro and convert back to their own currency and encourage Foreign investment and re-industralisation, focus on goods local needs and exports as their currency will be lower.
Control housing construction to get housing prices going up. Allow foreigners to purchase property as holiday homes etc..Chinese will love a mansion in the country side. Foreigners can only build new homes giving locals jobs. Once property prices start going up and construction increases, the ripple down effect will be felt,
Keep cutting spending etc will just kill the economy more as there is no way the economy can grow,
But these italians and greeks dont want to leave the euro as they are hanging on to perceived benefits they will never be realised as the krauts and frogs are their paymasters...
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