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Shanghainese dialect is dying because of influx of FTs

Rogue Trader

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Assimilation of foreigners! CCP and PAP lor kair sin (佬开心)!!

Shanghai dialect fights to survive in modern China


AFP
Wednesday, Feb 22, 2012


SHANGHAI - When professor Qian Nairong published his dictionary of the Shanghai dialect in 2007, he was in some ways documenting a dying language.


The number of people speaking the rapid-fire language - a badge of identity for residents of China's commercial capital of more than 20 million people - is shrinking.


As the government maintains a decades-old drive to promote Mandarin Chinese as the official language, banning dialects from media broadcasts and schools, many young people are unable to fluently speak the native Shanghai tongue.


An influx of migrants from outside Shanghai and the city's drive to become more international have also combined to water down the local patois.


"A language is like a living thing, after it gets old, it must die," said Qian, a retired professor of language studies at Shanghai University. "People born in the 1990s cannot really speak Shanghai dialect."


Shanghai is not alone. China's southern province of Guangdong has announced plans requiring broadcasters to get special permission to use the Cantonese dialect in programmes from March 1, causing a storm of controversy.


But there are signs that Shanghai's residents will not give up on their language that easily.

Shanghai comedian Zhou Libo has helped revitalise interest in the dialect with his witty routines, which often mock outsiders.

"The weakening of dialects means the weakening of local culture. Why must our children speak (Mandarin) Chinese? Shanghai people who cannot speak the Shanghai dialect. What stupidity!" he said on a talk show.


City buses have recently introduced announcements in Shanghainese, and there are plans for the metro system to follow suit to cater to older people, especially those with no formal education, who do not understand Mandarin.

Shanghai Airlines has just added an announcement about the city's attractions to market the unique features of Shanghai.

But the airline had to train young flight attendants to pronounce the words.

Not long after the Communist Party took power in 1949, it made Mandarin Chinese the official language to promote unity.

The government has been unable to stamp out local dialects, but it has discouraged their use, barring them from the classroom in most cases.

Although millions of people - mainly those aged from their 40s - still speak the Shanghai dialect, the version Qian heard in the 1980s is now found only in the mouths of elderly people and in the city's distant suburbs.

Qian, 66, laments the disappearance of words and changes in pronunciation as Shanghainese borrows from dominant Mandarin.

"As soon as the sounds combine, a group of words change," he said.

Also lost to time are colourful curse words like "corpse floating on the river" and "ghost of an executed criminal" which were once common insults in the Shanghai dialect.

In the 1990s, the local government pulled radio and television broadcasts using the Shanghai dialect as part of a national campaign.

A popular Shanghai radio show "A Fu Gen" which featured discussions of current events was among the victims.

Xiao Ling, a host for the show, struggled for 10 years before a sympathetic official revived the programme.

Xiao is one of only two hosts at the radio station who have formal broadcast training in the Shanghai dialect.

Last year, the programme was forced to hold open auditions to find candidates with Shanghai language skills to fill open positions.

"My colleagues joke that we are giant pandas," said Xiao.

Shanghai's prestigious Tongji University organised a voluntary class in the dialect, after finding student volunteers were unable to communicate with elderly Shanghai people, teaching basic phrases like "nong hao" (hello).

Tongji also offers a class for foreign students.

"We thought it was good to have people from outside the organisation and even outside the school to join the class," organiser Shen Yiwen said.


 
In Singapore, on the other hand, there is no let-up of the linguistic cleansing efforts begun in the late 1970s which have resulted in the loss of true Singaporean identity. Some day we will look back and wonder why we allowed the PAPzis to carry out this linguacide.
 
In Singapore, on the other hand, there is no let-up of the linguistic cleansing efforts begun in the late 1970s which have resulted in the loss of true Singaporean identity. Some day we will look back and wonder why we allowed the PAPzis to carry out this linguacide.

Shanghainese should take Singlish with it on its journey to the graveyard. :rolleyes:
 
Does that mean there will be less people walking around in their pyjamas too? :D
 
Does that mean there will be less people walking around in their pyjamas too? :D

You got problem with pyjamas?

201008252134007822220.jpg
 
Its not dying here in Sydney. You can hear it in Ashfiield most of the time.
 
Its not dying here in Sydney. You can hear it in Ashfiield most of the time.

Only spoken by older immigrants. For instance, my colleague and his wife (both Shanghainese professionals who immigrated in the 90s) don't teach their sons mandarin, much less shanghainese.
 
Hong Kong and Macau needs to continue using Cantonese as its primary language, for its administration and promotion of its culture like TVB dramas etc forever, if not the northern Mandarin speaking locusts will devour us,,this must never happen. If we give up our language for the sake of unity,, we will end up like the shanghainese
 
did u read how the professor said that the language is like a person and once it grows old it naturally dies. He's somewhat not resigned but rather accepts that as a fact of life to compare a language to the life of an object a being. Sounds pretty retarded to me.
 
Shanghainese should take Singlish with it on its journey to the graveyard. :rolleyes:

There's no such thing as a Shanghainese dialect, you twit. Shanghai had always been just a fishing village until the 1920s when ROC decided to grow it into a city. Even as city, now with provincial scale of population above 20 million, it has no dialectal tradition, just a mix of various Chinese dialects and Shanghaiglish from immigrants from variious provinces who had proper dialectal traditions but got mixed and corrupted in Shanghai. It's just a place to make money, not a place for culture or linguistics.
 
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There's no such thing as a Shanghainese dialect, you twit. Shanghai had always been just a fishing village until the 1920s when ROC decided to grow it into a city. Even as city, now with provincial scale of population above 20 million, it has no dialectal tradition, just a mix various Chinese dialects and Shanghaiglish from immigrants from variious provinces who had proper dialectal traditions but got mixed and corrupted in Shanghai. It's just a place to make money, not a place for culture or linguistics.

if that is the case why does the article talk about preserving shanghainese?
 
if that is the case why does the article talk about preserving shanghainese?

Because the writer of the article didn't know what the fuck he was talking about and tried to smoke.
 
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Nearly all languages are the result of mixing, matching and 'corruption' of other other languages. Some of these mixtures never attain any status beyond the pidgin. Shanghainese does not fall into that category. It achieved the steady state of a language long ago and has been the lingua franca of the Yangtse Delta for more than a century. By contrast, Mandarin is much newer.

Also, it was not the ROC government that opened up Shanghai to the outside world; it was the Qing government almost a century earlier.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghainese
There's no such thing as a Shanghainese dialect, you twit. Shanghai had always been just a fishing village until the 1920s when ROC decided to grow it into a city. Even as city, now with provincial scale of population above 20 million, it has no dialectal tradition, just a mix of various Chinese dialects and Shanghaiglish from immigrants from variious provinces who had proper dialectal traditions but got mixed and corrupted in Shanghai. It's just a place to make money, not a place for culture or linguistics.
 
Nearly all languages are the result of mixing, matching and 'corruption' of other other languages. Some of these mixtures never attain any status beyond the pidgin. Shanghainese does not fall into that category. It achieved the steady state of a language long ago and has been the lingua franca of the Yangtse Delta for more than a century. By contrast, Mandarin is much newer.

Also, it was not the ROC government that opened up Shanghai to the outside world; it was the Qing government almost a century earlier.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghainese

HSBC. Hongkong & Shanghai Banking Corp. The Taipan of the Taipans. The locations of HK and Shanghai weren't selected by Qing. They were selected by the British and their allies when Qing were clueless as to geographic and strategic implication, powerless and in no position to refuse and saw no incentive to fight on and refuse. See the similiarities? All three, Shanghai, HK and Singapore were acquired as sparsely populated villages and built into major trading and naval ports?
 
I thnk you're the clueless one in this case. how can there not be a shanghainese dialect?

My definition of a dialect is a regional or provincial tongue of vocabs and nuances and tones rooted and spoken in that region or province before ROC. What's yours?
 
By your definition, Shanghainese is a distinct dialect of the Wu Chinese language. Please read the Wikipedia link above, which to my knowledge is quite reliable.

My definition of a dialect is a regional or provincial tongue of vocabs and nuances and tones rooted and spoken in that region or province before ROC. What's yours?
 
By your definition, Shanghainese is a distinct dialect of the Wu Chinese language. Please read the Wikipedia link above, which to my knowledge is quite reliable.

As far as I'm concerned, Shanghai had no distinct dialectal base until ROC. That's about a century ago. Well, well, perhaps, it qualifies as dialect by now.
 
As far as I'm concerned, Shanghai had no distinct dialectal base until ROC. That's about a century ago. Well, well, perhaps, it qualifies as dialect by now.

Whatever it's called or however it's defined, as long as Singlish suffers the same fate, I'll die a happy man.
 
Whatever it's called or however it's defined, as long as Singlish suffers the same fate, I'll die a happy man.

Singlish is thriving instead of dying. Most school-going kids in from kindergartens to JCs speak singlish now. Not mandarin, not english. When you are in singapore, take public transport train and you'll know what i mean.
 
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