SCMP Columnist tells BG Lee to stop talking cock & learn economics 101

[1nottiboy]

This Jake Whatever is talking nonsense. Its a pity that a respectable newspaper allows this type of nonsense to be printed.

I suspect they allowed it to be printed because a lot of HK tycoons park their money in SG. I know cos I chiong KTV with them.

The guys is talking through his arse. The honorable Mr Lee isn't asking billionaires just to park their billions. He wants them to become consumers.

 

[Satyr]

If the Pope has empathy, let's see how he distributes the obscene wealth of the Catholic church to those who need it more than the church does.

He can also start changing the rules so that the catholic church has to follow the same tax and disclosure laws as everyone else. I'm not holding my breath.

http://www.slate.com/articles/busin...religious_institutions_are_exempted_from.html

By the same token the rich SG government should distribute their obscene wealth to those who need it more than them. Kong Hee's wealth is obscene. The Catholic Church has a billion plus members. It's so called wealth per head is not that impressive. The Church has been around 2000 years. If the PAP rules Singapore for 2000 years they wil be far richer.

 

[Asterix]

...

In a suburb or city where there are lots of rich people, everyone benefits as long as the rich indulge in conspicuous consumption. I've seen it happen in the Bay area. If seen it in LA. I've seen it in Sydney and I've seen it in parts of Europe.

...

I note you did not say “in a country” but rather “in a suburb or city”. In any case, the fallacy lies in assuming that conspicuous consumption is the one and only or even best form of economic growth. It ain’t. I hope others more knowledgeable in this area will expound on the various kinds of economic growth and their social and political implications in the context of a CUNTry. I’m a great believer in Bertrand Russell’s “In Praise of Idleness”, that is after one has reached a certain stage of affluence. Perhaps they can draw inspiration from this link:

http://www.decisionsonevidence.com/...pply-side-trickle-down-economics-doesnt-work/

Anyway, I like this song about conspicuous consumption. If I were a rich man, I will build a big house right in the middle of town with a long staircase going up and an even longer one going down and one going nowhere just for show. And how does that compare in economic, social and political effects with say an entrepreneur like Henry Ford who becomes rich the “traditional” way and thereafter decided to give back to the community which supported him when he was just a wannabe?

The most important men in town will come to fawn on me
They will ask me to advise them like a Solomon the Wise
If you please Reb Tevye, pardon me Reb Tevye
Posing problems that would cross a rabbi’s eyes
And it won’t make one bit of difference if I answer right or wrong
When you’re rich they think you really know

Maybe this is why, some people on Sammyboy show off their wealth, real or pretend!

[video=youtube;RBHZFYpQ6nc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc[/video]

 

[Leongsam]

I note you did not say “in a country” but rather “in a suburb or city”. In any case, the fallacy lies in assuming that conspicuous consumption is the one and only or even best form of economic growth. It ain’t. I hope others more knowledgeable in this area will expound on the various kinds of economic growth and their social and political implications in the context of a CUNTry. I’m a great believer in Bertrand Russell’s “In Praise of Idleness”, that is after one has reached a certain stage of affluence. Perhaps they can draw inspiration from this link:

In large countries, economic growth has never been evenly distributed. There are pockets or wealth and areas of poverty in any country.

However, Singapore is such a small country and every corner of the country is within an hour's drive. The presence of a few more billionaires would therefore benefit the whole Island as long as the citizens are willing to get off their butts and make a concerted effort to get a slice of the pie.

Not everyone will succeed. There'll be winners and losers but then that's what life is all about. Those that sit on their hands and wait for something to happen don't deserve success in the first place.

 

[watchman8]

This Jake Whatever is talking nonsense. Its a pity that a respectable newspaper allows this type of nonsense to be printed.

I suspect they allowed it to be printed because a lot of HK tycoons park their money in SG. I know cos I chiong KTV with them.

tycoons park their money everywhere, and seldom you will see a tycoon park all his wealth in a single country. You think that by sucking their dicks in KTVs they have told you all about how they manage their assets?

 

[watchman8]

In large countries, economic growth has never been evenly distributed. There are pockets or wealth and areas of poverty in any country.

However, Singapore is such a small country and every corner of the country is within an hour's drive. The presence of a few more billionaires would therefore benefit the whole Island as long as the citizens are willing to get off their butts and make a concerted effort to get a slice of the pie.

Not everyone will succeed. There'll be winners and losers but then that's what life is all about. Those that sit on their hands and wait for something to happen don't deserve success in the first place.

Then why are you not getting off your butt to come over to this wonderful billionaire playground to kiss some asses?

By your logic, since it is more difficult to distribute wealth in a large country, then a tiny country like singapore is going to be much easier. Yet tiny Singapore GINI index is amongst the highest in the world, much higher than even large countries like Australia, NZ, USA and Germany. Are sinkies that much less hardworking than people in Aust, NZ, USA or Germany? Your logic don't make sense.

 

[bryanlim1972]

Singaporeans need to learn to look at the positive side of things. Having very rich people in your midst has to be a good thing. All you need to do is work out ways of making them part with some of their money. Don't let the SPGs monopolise the proceedings. There is money there for everyone especially the nerds.

singaporeans need to have a bigger heart to celebrate the success of others. here we like too often to drag others down to the lowest common denominator. i guess misery loves company.

 

[Leongsam]

Then why are you not getting off your butt to come over to this wonderful billionaire playground to kiss some asses?

By your logic, since it is more difficult to distribute wealth in a large country, then a tiny country like singapore is going to be much easier. Yet tiny Singapore GINI index is amongst the highest in the world, much higher than even large countries like Australia, NZ, USA and Germany. Are sinkies that much less hardworking than people in Aust, NZ, USA or Germany? Your logic don't make sense.

Because of its excellent tax system which rewards hard work and innovation, the rich are happy to take up tax residency in Singapore so this skews the high end of the gini index.

In countries such as NZ, the wealthiest Kiwis all live or spend considerable time abroad in order to avoid paying high taxes. The country punishes success with tax penalties and other disincentives.

If Millionaire and Billionaire Kiwis like Graham Hart, Eric Watson, Sir Michael Fay, Douglas Myers etc were to move back to NZ, the gini coefficient would change for the worse.

The Gini coefficient also needs to be put in perspective by the tax system that each country adopts. Take NZ which I am familiar with as an example... the lowest income earners may be paid more than their Singaporean counterparts but they start paying almost 10% income tax on the very first dollar they earn whereas low income Singaporeans pay no income tax whatsoever. Data may show that the lowest paid Kiwi earns $1000 per month but you need to subtract $100 from that figure straight away because they'll never get to see it.

When comparisons are made, the devil is always in the details. Having spent at least 50% of the last 20 years outside of Singapore, I've come to realise that reading articles and looking at data cannot beat real life experiences.

You cannot judge the food in a restaurant just by reading the menu or surfing their website or from reviews written by food critics. You actually have to frequent the restaurant personally and consume a good representative sample of the menu.

Same applies to countries. If you want to compare Singapore with NZ, you have to live in both countries for a sufficient length of time in order to make a just comparison.

 

[bryanlim1972]

Not everyone will succeed. There'll be winners and losers but then that's what life is all about. Those that sit on their hands and wait for something to happen don't deserve success in the first place.

what about those who succeed without doing anything by virtue of their birth/inheritance? bring back the estate duty tax. a government is best placed to redistribute the wealth of previous generations.

 

[Leongsam]

what about those who succeed without doing anything by virtue of their birth/inheritance? bring back the estate duty tax. a government is best placed to redistribute the wealth of previous generations.

If you inherited a $5 million home, what would you do?

 

[Asterix]

Same applies to countries. If you want to compare Singapore with NZ, you have to live in both countries for a sufficient length of time in order to make a just comparison.

Ok, if I were a British millionaire with only 10 million pounds of liquid assets, Sinkieland might be a good alternative to Monaco. However, do note that as stated in the video, once I have spent five years resident outside of the UK, I can return to the UK without any negative tax consequences. So, why would I prefer a tiny principality whose air space takes only a few seconds to fly through with a slow helicopter or a hot and sweaty tropical island with natives that chope seats with packets of tissue paper over the UK once taxes are no longer a consideration after five years (or whatever as the rules keep changing)?

I’ll stick this video about Monaco here as I recall we had a friendly exchange on this in another thread. Note that somewhere towards the end of the video, the presenter says that the Monaco natives are NOT HAPPY about the present situation including having to fork out EUR 1.5 million for 47 square metres of “luxury”. Thus most Monaco natives are actually living in France, which by the way takes care of Monaco’s military and foreign affairs aka Hong Kong – one country, two systems. Ah Loon planning on such an arrangement with Mudland? Who will be the big brother in such an arrangement?

There’s nothing wrong with welcoming a few foreign billionaires on a selective basis with strict criteria and subsequent monitoring to ensure that we get the most economically out of them, but if the end all and be all of your economic strategy is this then your Ministars are not worth their OUT OF THIS WORLD salaries. That’s the bottom line.

[video=youtube;E9iXG4Rkdv4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9iXG4Rkdv4[/video]

 

[Asterix]

Ministars paid OUT OF THIS WORLD salaries should be devising well co-ordinated multi-pronged strategies to compete with economies of similar stature through means other than unduly heavy reliance on attracting foreign investments whether these be MNCs or foreign billionaires hell bent on conspicuous consumption.

The part that I most like about that Jake the Ang Mo’s article is actually this:

And it surprises me that he thinks his people need foreign input in order to find opportunities and open doors. I was not aware that they are so deficient in initiative as not to be able to do it themselves.

Unlike Jake the Ang Mo, my stand is closer to Leongsam's, which is that as it presently stands, a significant portion (like 60.1%) of Sinkies are indeed deficient in initiative. So how can they compete in a globalised economy with an economy like Shanghai – the hub of the Yangtze valley? By becoming more like Monaco? That option is certainly better than doing nothing but not the best, especially since we pay these Ministars OUT OF THIS WORLD salaries as they claim to have incredible foresight but farked up co-ordination. On the other hand, initiative deficient Sinkies cannot rely on their Ministars for everything, so if they sink, it’s still largely their own fault. 2016 or 2021 ain't gonna solve all your problems if you still have the same Sinkie attitude.

http://sammyboy.com/showthread.php?...-for-LEEgime-change-to-last&highlight=asterix

[video=youtube;1wbGFeDR7Gg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wbGFeDR7Gg[/video]

 

[Leongsam]

There’s nothing wrong with welcoming a few foreign billionaires on a selective basis with strict criteria and subsequent monitoring to ensure that we get the most economically out of them, but if the end all and be all of your economic strategy is this then your Ministars are not worth their OUT OF THIS WORLD salaries. That’s the bottom line.

No country is perfect. Singapore can improve in many ways and there are definitely people out there who are more capable than some of the current crop of ministerial talent. However, for various reasons, they choose to pursue other career options so what you have at the moment is what you have to make do with. I doubt very much if the Workers Party could do any better.

My aim is to point out that Singapore is far from the being the worst country on earth run by crooked politicians which is what outsiders would conclude if they read some of the crap posted in this forum. In my opinion, it is amongst the best run countries in the world despite the warts. Singaporeans should be careful what they wish for.

 

[neddy]

The wealthy foreigners are also in Singapore to make money from the locals.

 

[freedalas]

No country is perfect. Singapore can improve in many ways and there are definitely people out there who are more capable than some of the current crop of ministerial talent. However, for various reasons, they choose to pursue other career options so what you have at the moment is what you have to make do with. I doubt very much if the Workers Party could do any better.

My aim is to point out that Singapore is far from the being the worst country on earth run by crooked politicians which is what outsiders would conclude if they read some of the crap posted in this forum. In my opinion, it is amongst the best run countries in the world despite the warts. Singaporeans should be careful what they wish for.

For the out-of-this-world salaries that we are paying to the PAP idiots, it is indeed the worst-run country by dollar value. The PAP government by far is the most expensive government in this entire universe and look at what they had produced in return - a subway that breaks down in one form or another everyday, Singaporeans being replaced by cheap foreigners, the highest Gini co-efficient in income disparity, medical care that is equivalent to third world countries. I can go on and on. You simply don't know about the situation here in Singapore. So stop spouting nonsense to preserve some dignity for yourself.

 

[winnipegjets]

However, Singapore is such a small country and every corner of the country is within an hour's drive. The presence of a few more billionaires would therefore benefit the whole Island as long as the citizens are willing to get off their butts and make a concerted effort to get a slice of the pie.

Billionaires, millionaires ...if they don't spend sufficiently, they have ZERO impact. Sinkapore doesn't offer much to these rich folks except that the locals are pushovers and will kowtow to them.

Not everyone will succeed. There'll be winners and losers but then that's what life is all about. Those that sit on their hands and wait for something to happen don't deserve success in the first place.[/QUOTE]

The goal of governing is to minimize the number of losers and raise the standard of living for all. If a loser in sinkapore makes $60k, it is totally acceptable. He is a loser in the country relative to the others but he is still able to live decently.

 

[winnipegjets]

No country is perfect. Singapore can improve in many ways and there are definitely people out there who are more capable than some of the current crop of ministerial talent. However, for various reasons, they choose to pursue other career options so what you have at the moment is what you have to make do with. I doubt very much if the Workers Party could do any better.

How would you know that the WP can't do better?

My aim is to point out that Singapore is far from the being the worst country on earth run by crooked politicians which is what outsiders would conclude if they read some of the crap posted in this forum. In my opinion, it is amongst the best run countries in the world despite the warts. Singaporeans should be careful what they wish for.

Sinkapore's corruption is legalized. We have millionaire ministers performing worse that lower paying politicians elsewhere.
The fact is that sinkapore is slowly going downhill. If we don't address that now, we would return to third world within a decade or two.
Let's stop living off the past and face the reality.

 

[winnipegjets]

singaporeans need to have a bigger heart to celebrate the success of others. here we like too often to drag others down to the lowest common denominator. i guess misery loves company.

We have one of the biggest heart ...that's why our ministers are paid millions and our scholars net $68 million over their lifetime in salary and pensions.

For that, what do we get back in return? Public housing that takes up 30 years to pay off, leaving us with little in retirement savings. Forced to work harder because foreigners are brought in to depress wages and replace mid-career sinkees.

If that's the kind of life you celebrate, you are in the right place.