Salary Review -egg on everyone's faces

[TracyTan866]

the last general election result speaks for itself. my comments are based on observations of real events and facts.

even if u want to take that as the gospel truth, that was almost 9mths ago...every month is different

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

the last general election result speaks for itself. my comments are based on observations of real events and facts.

I can assure you that without the PAPpies' open-door policy towards immigration, which brought about at least couple hundred thousand of votes that the PAPies would have lost a larger number of seats. If it isn't already clear to you, SIngaporeans have long been abandoned by the PAPpies and new immigrants are the only way that the PAPpies can remain in power.

 

[jw5]

4. The Opposition parties lost the plot and ended up closing the door on a subject of great interest to voters.

I think that WP were trying too hard to be a "responsive, responsible, opposition".
Responding to the issue being discussed and making their own model. Possibly too responsive.
"Responsible" in trying hard not to deviate too much from the committee's recommendation.
"Opposing", hence came up with their different basis and methodology.
Ended up with slight conflict between responsible and opposition.

However, most of them are smart and well-meaning and they will get better in future issues.
Can't say the same for some of the pappies who are grossly overpaid.
What the WP could have done was to say that the salaries after reduction are reasonable for some of the ministars.
For others, they need to do much more to justify even the revised salary. Let the pappies go back and wonder who.
Optional: give Zorro a little wink before sitting down.

 

[zhihau]

Optional: give Zorro a little wink before sitting down.

thought that's rather dangerous

 

[jw5]

thought that's rather dangerous

Would have thought that would be covered by parliamentary priviledge. :o

Oh, or do u mean the other type of danger, the "happy" type.....................

 

[zhihau]

Would have thought that would be covered by parliamentary priviledge. :o

winks can be misinterpreted easily

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

More like medicine men.

AKA the new generation of overpaid First World Koyok Sellers.

 

[Bigfuck]

All these will return to haunt the pap at the next GE...As LHL said, these are not the last words. The pap can bulldoze its way through in Parliament, but if it didnt win the peoples' hearts, the issue is not settled.

It's actually very foolish for the pap to end it this way

It is okay. We have crossed tipping point from both sides. The collapse of the system (PAP and others) has started and it is accelerating. Too many superstitious people who cannot see past their foolish. Quoting without verifying as if they know. These jokers would laugh at the water protection laws in Indonesia, which are far better written than the United States, but would never question the implementation efficiency of some laws in the States. Stupid and unscientific bunch. Look at the ponding minister.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Subj: Fw: feedmetothefish--Another ex-SAF General talking cock

Will the PM also come to his defence, like he did Grace Fu, that he is right in pointing out the sacrifices he's making to 'serve' the nation?

Seriously, I think most MPs and ministers of PAP are making a sacrilege of the word "sacrifice"! The latest came from a Brigadier-General. It's profane! It's sad to see the word "sacrifice" so badly hacked and desecrated.

When Minister of State Tan Chuan-Jin, choking over his words said: "I'm pained by the knowledge that I'll miss the many moments when my children are growing up and time with my family. My parents are not getting any younger. Those moments missed do not return. Ever... In time I will look back and there will be gaps. But that's life. I'm not sure how one considers it a privilege to miss these precious moments.! It trivialises all of us who do cherish these." [Link].

So bloody sad! Blind me! For a moment, I thought he was describing the job of the Security Guard who works 12-hour shift followed by another 6 hours washing dirty dishes at the hawker centre just to make ends meet. Or was he talking about the sacrifices made by foreign domestic helpers who come to work in this 'red dot soon to be a black spot'? No, my dear readers. He was lamenting the job he's holding!

To be paid millions and have the privilege to serve and to come up with a rhetoric like, I repeat,
"I'm pained by the knowledge that I'll miss the many moments when my children are gr! owing up and time with my family. My parents are not getting any younger. Those moments missed do not return. Ever... In time I will look back and there will be gaps. But that's life. I'm not sure how one considers it a privilege to miss these precious moments. It trivialises all of us who do cherish these." almost takes my breath away.

Such rhetoric does trivialise real work done by real people. Get real, man! Worse, it denigrates all hardworking men and women who work long hours, missing their children and neglecting their aged parents, just to put food on the table, pay the bills and put their kids in school. Do these poor souls consider it a "sacrifice"? I doubt so. They are merely doing what needs to be done to survive without an inkling of what high-falutin' sacrifice is about!

It is often said that PAP ministers sit in their ivory towers unacquainted with the harsh realities of commoners. It is sad to know that newly minted Minister of State is also ignorant of commoners' daily struggles. Or has this "callous sickness" affected top elites and honchos in the Armed Forces too?

I'm at a loss for words to describe the hubris and audacity of the Brigadier-General. Some English vulgarities come to mind but I shall desist using them. However, a Hokkien "KNNBCCB" and/or a Mandarin "Neow nee ma de chee pee" (I learned from a Nanyang g! raduate while serving NS in 1969) does help to lift the pain off my chest.

I just don't get it. Why the PAPies keep harping about their sacrifices is really beyond me. They are, even after the salary cut, still the highest paid in the world. Yet, they are still belly-aching that their sacrifices are not recognized. To bitch that he misses his mama, papa, wife and kids while he works to earn his millions is no better than Wee Shu Min, daughter of ex PAP parliament member Wee Siew Kim saying, 'Get off my elitist uncaring face"!

Denise Phua, one of the more decent PAP MPs whom I respect for her guts and candour, did a Drama Mama with a glass half filled with water. She was driving the point on "perception" and I caught her drift. I'm at a loss at just what Brigadier-General Drama was trying to prove with his Thank You Card. That we should appreciate his "SACRIFICE" by sending him more cards? Thanks but no thanks. Self praise leads to much disgrace. No?

Lee Hsien Loong and his team decided in 2007 to pay PAP ministers millions. In so doing, they made a mockery of National Service and Reservists' Training. They killed the sense of service and loyalty to one's country. It left a bitter taste in the mouths of millions of $ingaporean! s. In trying to mitigate the "Mother Of All Excesses", he directed Gerard Ee (was it Gerrard's privilegeorsacrifice & was he paid?) to do a review.

Wise after the Event:
I, like everyone else, have a 20/20 vision after the event. So does WP when they improved on Gerrard's recommendation. Likewise, PAP's sight was on the target trying its best to humiliate WP for its genius.

My observation:
1. The Review hurts PAP bad. Very bad. Having reduced his and his "kah kia's" salary, Lee Hsien Loong must be very 'hsien'. He should have let the old salary ride and not try to be a "popular" politician. PAP has prided itself in not succumbing to the popularity poll for decades and now PM Lee has gone against the grain. Instead of healing the nation and make people understand (so as to have more dragon babies, pun intended), he has wreaked havoc. Throughout the 3-day debate, after Chen Show Mao's speech, PAP was on the defensive. The silly attacks they made on WP especially on Gerald, Pritam and Yenn shows the bully that PAP is. Instead of scoring brownie points, PAP has scored its own goals.

2. Workers' Party is no longer OMO (one man operation) and PAP knows it is a Party to be reckoned with. WP has shown through Chen Show Mao, Pritam Singh and others that PAP does not have the exclusive hold of political talents and leaders of Singapore. It proves that talents with passion and willingness to serve Singapore need not be bought with million dollars salary. In fact, many more may be willing to serve without being affiliated to or tainted by PAP. The cross may be too hard to carry as shown by George, Hwee Hwa and Zainal Abidin.

3. 1st World Parliament: The performance of the PAP Ministers and PMs left much to be desired. The jibes and insinuations on the opposition's "insincerity" and making "political mileage" out of the debate shows the quality (or lack of) of PAP members. After decades of watching the bullying tactics against gentlemen like JB Jeyaratnam and Chiam See Tong by PAP, it's neat to note that such tactics do not work anymore. It brings shame and disrespect to PAP. It's tiring to see such stupidity at work and hopefully we'll see less.

4. Lee Kuan Yew had to write a letter to msm, "Don't underpay our ministers" [Link] to defend the high salary. His son, the Sec-Gen of PAP spoke. DPM Teo Chee Hean spoke. So did other top guns from PAP. So far, not a word from the Sec-Gen Low Thia Kiang and Chairman Sylvia Lim of Workers' Party. Does it tell you that "A rose by any name smells as good"? OR , a greedy self serving deed, no matter how revised, stinks to high heaven?

5. My most striking observation is the fact that PAP members do not see (or purposely refuse to see) Chen Show Mao's distinct differences from Gerard Ee's recommendation:

WP recommends a base pay instead of artificially bringing it up and giving a 40% DISCOUNT. Thus not having a charade of putting up ministers on a pedestal and showing their sacrifice and graciousness of accepting a pay cut. Worse than hubristic stupidity, it is a 'mootherfooking disgrace' to upsize the pay, then give a 40% Discount to make the ministers look good!

As much as Loong said that he never mentioned pay when he recruited his "kah kia's", his subordinates may be in pain. If not, words from MsGraceFu and BG Tan Chuan-Jin on (pardon my expression) his childrenless. wifeless and parentless sacrifice would not have seen the light of day.

When a DPM can say something like, "We need transparency but we must respect the privacy of individual! s" Singaporeans know we are pwned!

6. However, let's take the glass from Denise Phua and see it as half-full instead of half-empty. With PAP's continuing "don't get it" or "refuse to get it", we know they will pay dearly for it in the next election. Hopefully, in 2016, we'll have more leaders and less Sacrificers!

7. Worrisome thought: Now that the deed is done - ministers' pay cut - will my mother, wife, sister, daughter and grand daughter end up working as maids in foreign countries sacrificing like Brigadier General Tan Chuan-Jin does without the million dollars salary? Heaven forbids.
Yeah, I'm sitting here typing away on my keyboard, tickling my brain to come up with something good, neglecting members of my family, writing this blog without a single cent in financial reward . . . So is it my Sacrifice or Privilege? Neither.

Therapeutic, may be.

Taken from: feedmetothefish

 

[zhihau]

just let PAP run its course :o:o:o

 

[moolightaffairs]

子曰：“君子喻于义，小人喻于利。”

君子于事必辨其是非,小人于事必计其利害。所以君子可以晓以大义，而小人则只能动之以利害。

 

[scroobal]

There is a another dimension that never sees daylight and being part of the establishment you have inside track. Property soft launches have been part of the reward system and doyen of the property market was old man's wife and now the niece. The son is now a major player in properties.

It only surfaces when the wives of establishment figures make the purchases of miliion dollar apartments During soft launches. Very little speculation as you are pointed to sure wins or near sure wins. These are then off loaded. Only bridging loans required. The only insight is when these establishment figures are on property companies and have to report related party transactions. So now the wife's maiden is used and in the CV in parliament or Govt website, the maiden name is not revealed. For those in their second term, even if they do not a draw a single penny as salary, they will not be worse off.

In the mid 90's the wife of Chief of SAF was removed from his position because he could not control his wife who is an accountant bybtraining and got so greedy. She went around to all the banks to secure loans for funding these purchases. She was told not to do so but she refused to heed and complained to the bank and demanded an investigation on who released her details. She assumed the banks revealed it. Dumbass woman did not figure out wire tapping. She also did not realise that these were perks and these can be taken away. Another idiot (or is it smart one ) is Mrs Lim Chong Yah amd her daughter who talks with potato in her mouth. Mother and daughter will be trapezing around singapore from one property launch to another.


t

You can add the following to the list- A disproportionate number of ministers were formerly from the military. All have experienced huge financial gains from stepping into the political arena. Any sacrifice they now make should under all probable circumstances seem much less than what they were making while with the military.- While a small number of ministers have indeed taken a pay cut, since joining politics, a major proportion have gained financially. The response and bahaviour of the PAP is actually unnecessarily skewed towards helping a majority of their MPs and ministers receive a huge salary increment.- Ask how the committee, after reviewing private sector salaries, came up with such huge bonuses which are unheard off to the layperson. What statistics prompted such a call for such a bonus scheme? - Ask, based on the past 5 years, for each year, how many months of bonuses were paid out to the ministers?- Ask, based on the statistics for the past 5 years, how much bonuses will the ministers receive should the current bonus scheme be at play.- If the PAPies are indeed so believing in the premise that a high salary is required for their ministers and their ministers are crucial to the survival of Singapore then why gamble with such high stakes. Why put the survival of Singapore into the hands of non-elected members of parliament who formed the Committee? Is the PAP so lacking in its beliefs that it has to gather a group of private sector personnel to task them with something that risked Singapore's future? Would the PAP have accepted a much lower salary if the committee had proposed accordingly? Based on the answers provided another round of questions would be in order. The PAPpies have gotten off lightly and it is a missed opportunity. This was an opportunity for them to dig themselves deeper and further away from the layperson.

 

[Bigfuck]

There is a another dimension that never sees daylight and being part of the establishment you have inside track. Property soft launches have been part of the reward system and doyen of the property market was old man's wife and now the niece. The son is now a major player in properties.

t

You know very well by stating this you are clearly implying something very damning about the system. I know this is done in PRC to death and with the consequences that is well known

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

what u hv highlighted is an illustration of the INTANGIBLE BENEFITS that flow fm those wif political power...may i add that this is but just one mere eg...there are countless number of "intangible benefits" wif probably no exhaustive list...following on, it is clear that no price tag can be put on "intangible benefits"...

what has surprised me fm the recent parl debate on the ministerial pay issue is why this fundamental critical issue regards INTANGIBLE BENEFITS was never raised by the opposition...why the fear(i assume that may hv been the reason for holding them bk?) when such a critical issue can be raised in neutral tone language wifout expressly making reference to legalised corruption n croynism...in fact i am surprised that even SDP has not raised this issue(stand corrected if they indeed hv done so)...

bottom line there is no such thing as a "clean wage system" when politics comes into play...this so called concept is but just an illusion...harry n son r being disingenuous(i am being kind to them here!) n i hope the electorate shall not be fooled come next GE...

There is a another dimension that never sees daylight and being part of the establishment you have inside track. Property soft launches have been part of the reward system and doyen of the property market was old man's wife and now the niece. The son is now a major player in properties.

It only surfaces when the wives of establishment figures make the purchases of miliion dollar apartments During soft launches. Very little speculation as you are pointed to sure wins or near sure wins. These are then off loaded. Only bridging loans required. The only insight is when these establishment figures are on property companies and have to report related party transactions. So now the wife's maiden is used and in the CV in parliament or Govt website, the maiden name is not revealed. For those in their second term, even if they do not a draw a single penny as salary, they will not be worse off.

In the mid 90's the wife of Chief of SAF was removed from his position because he could not control his wife who is an accountant bybtraining and got so greedy. She went around to all the banks to secure loans for funding these purchases. She was told not to do so but she refused to heed and complained to the bank and demanded an investigation on who released her details. She assumed the banks revealed it. Dumbass woman did not figure out wire tapping. She also did not realise that these were perks and these can be taken away. Another idiot (or is it smart one ) is Mrs Lim Chong Yah amd her daughter who talks with potato in her mouth. Mother and daughter will be trapezing around singapore from one property launch to another.


t

 

[Bigfuck]

what u hv highlighted is an illustration of the INTANGIBLE BENEFITS that flow fm those wif political power...may i add that this is but just one mere eg...there are countless number of "intangible benefits" wif probably no exhaustive list...following on, it is clear that no price tag can be put on "intangible benefits"...

what has surprised me fm the recent parl debate on the ministerial pay issue is why this fundamental critical issue regards INTANGIBLE BENEFITS was never raised by the opposition...why the fear(i assume that may hv been the reason for holding them bk?) when such a critical issue can be raised in neutral tone language wifout expressly making reference to legalised corruption n croynism...in fact i am surprised that even SDP has not raised this issue(stand corrected if they indeed hv done so)...

bottom line there is no such thing as a "clean wage system" when politics comes into play...this so called concept is but just an illusion...harry n son r being disingenuous(i am being kind to them here!) n i hope the electorate shall not be fooled come next GE...

The next phase of systemic eroding is in progress. The question will come when who will check CPIB, ISD, MSD, SSIB? Also, is it worth digging more as the years of retaining people who cannot tell corruption from acceptable actions become apparent. What can you do if your dogs believe their unilateral actions are all beyond doubt and all other actions are doubtful and likely corrupt. Systemic problems are very very telling and difficult to rectifiy.

 

[scroobal]

I suspect no one in opposition or associated with opposition were high enough to receive these benefit not even Tan Jee Say. It is also something that takes place in public listed companies that were founded by Chinese towkays. It is not part of the remuneration that is declared. I first came to know of such practices nearly 2 decades ago and involved an organisation where the newly appointed Head honcho was given an interest free loan to purchase a property in holland road vicinity that was specially picked for him by the boss. The interest free part was not the catch but price offered for the prime property was astonishing. Also it very hard to prove as no developer or intermediary wants to rock the boat.

what u hv highlighted is an illustration of the INTANGIBLE BENEFITS that flow fm those wif political power...may i add that this is but just one mere eg...there are countless number of "intangible benefits" wif probably no exhaustive list...following on, it is clear that no price tag can be put on "intangible benefits"...what has surprised me fm the recent parl debate on the ministerial pay issue is why this fundamental critical issue regards INTANGIBLE BENEFITS was never raised by the opposition...why the fear(i assume that may hv been the reason for holding them bk?) when such a critical issue can be raised in neutral tone language wifout expressly making reference to legalised corruption n croynism...in fact i am surprised that even SDP has not raised this issue(stand corrected if they indeed hv done so)...bottom line there is no such thing as a "clean wage system" when politics comes into play...this so called concept is but just an illusion...harry n son r being disingenuous(i am being kind to them here!) n i hope the electorate shall not be fooled come next GE...

 

[GoldenDragon]

I suspect no one in opposition or associated with opposition were high enough to receive these benefit not even Tan Jee Say. It is also something that takes place in public listed companies that were founded by Chinese towkays. It is not part of the remuneration that is declared. I first came to know of such practices nearly 2 decades ago and involved an organisation where the newly appointed Head honcho was given an interest free loan to purchase a property in holland road vicinity that was specially picked for him by the boss. The interest free part was not the catch but price offered for the prime property was astonishing. Also it very hard to prove as no developer or intermediary wants to rock the boat.

I heard something like that 15 years ago. OMSes or admin service chaps, can't recall now, attended a meeting and were strongly encouraged to purchase some private property. The person who disclosed this to some of us is now a CEO. He should be mid-30s today.