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Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 cent!

nkfnkfnkf

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https://www.strategypage.com/\htmw\htatrit\articles\20140519.aspx

Attrition: Two Cents Worth
Next Article → RUSSIA: The Fascist Threat

May 19, 2014: An old aircraft isn’t worth much these days. For example, two decades ago the U.S. Navy decommissioned its four largest non-nuclear powered aircraft carriers. Unable to find anyone willing or able to use these vessels as museum ships, the navy is now selling them for a penny each to American breakers (shipyards that dismantle old ships and recycle or neutralize the components). The USS Forrestal was sold in 2013 and now the USS Saratoga has been disposed of the same way. The navy got one cent ($.01) for each ship because this was the best deal the navy could get. Because it will cost many millions to take the ship apart in a legal fashion (being careful to avoid releasing any real or imagined harmful substances into the environment) it is much more expensive to “break” (disassemble) old ships. The other alternative was to sink the Forrestal at sea. But this requires partial disassembly (to remove anything that could or might pollute the ocean) and that would be even more expensive.

The navy could have sold these carriers to a foreign yard (not subject to the same environmental regulations) and received several million dollars each. But this would create a lot of bad publicity for the navy. Another reason for not selling to foreign yards is security. With China developing its own carrier force, the Chinese could gain access to useful details of how American carriers are built, even though all the classified equipment is removed from a ship before it is broken up for scrap. Ships sent to foreign breakers would be much easier for Chinese spies to get to.

The 81,000 ton Forrestal class ships entered service in late 1950s and were the first of the modern “super carriers.” The design and layout of the Forestalls was the model for all large American carriers since. While selling decommissioned carriers for a penny may seem bad, it’s about to get worse. The “take it for a penny” deal only worked because the Forrestal class was not nuclear powered. For the nuclear powered carriers coming up for decommissioning, it is very expensive to safely take apart and remove the nuclear propulsion system and that will cost the navy a lot of money and headaches.

It was only in 2012 that the U.S. Navy decided to go back to the breakers and forget about sinking this growing collection of retired carriers. Five retired aircraft carriers (USS Enterprise, USS Constellation, USS Forrestal, USS Independence, and USS Saratoga) were to be scrapped instead of sunk or simply allowed to rust away while tied up. These ships were taken out of service between 1993 and 2012 and have been waiting since then while a decision was made on their disposition. But there are even more carriers waiting to be scrapped, and the navy has an economic disaster on its hands. Keeping carriers in reserve costs several hundred thousand dollars a year but it can cost over a billion dollars for a nuclear powered carrier.

Since the 1990s, sending warships to the scrap yard has come to be much less acceptable. It's all about pollution, bad press, and cost. That was because of the experience with the largest warship to be scrapped to date, the 45,000 ton carrier USS Coral Sea. This ship took until 2000 (seven years) to be broken up. Thus, the new ecologically correct process was not only expensive but it took a long time. Then the navy discovered that the cost of scrapping a nuclear powered carrier like the USS Enterprise would be close to a billion dollars. This was largely the result of a lot more environmental and safety regulations. With so many navy ships (especially nuclear subs) being broken up in the 1990s, and all these new regulations arriving, the cost of disposing of these ships skyrocketed. This was especially true with carriers.

So for over a decade the navy just tied up retired ships and waited for some better solution to appear. That never happened. In fact, the situation has gotten worse. The navy only has one ship scrapping facility (Brownsville, Texas), so only one carrier at a time can be dismantled. Using official estimates of the time required to dismantle each of the biggest ships, it'll take seven decades to get rid of the surviving conventionally powered carriers. Note also that the conventional carrier in the absolute worst shape, the USS John F Kennedy, is the one being officially retained in category B reserve (but only until Congress forgets all about her, of course). Name recognition really does count.

It gets worse. With the really vast number of single hull tankers being scrapped and large numbers of old, smaller-capacity container ships laid up and likely to be offered for scrap fairly soon, the market for difficult-to-scrap naval ships is going to shrivel and the price for scrap steel will drop. Efforts to get the navy to include the costs of disposal in the budget for lifetime costs has never caught on and now it's obvious why not. The real nightmare begins with the first nuclear powered carrier (the 93,000 ton USS Enterprise), which began the decommissioning process in late 2012 (with the lengthy removal of all classified or reusable equipment). The cost of dismantling this ship (and disposing of radioactive components) may be close to $2 billion. Until it is done for the first time, no one is sure what the final price will be.

For thousands of years unneeded ships were "sent to the breakers" (a shipyard that broke the ship up for scrap and reusable parts). However, this is now considered environmentally harmful if done the old fashioned way (as it is still done in countries like India) and too expensive if it is done in an environmentally (and politically) acceptable way. In other words, it could cost more to scrap warships than you would recover from the value of the recycled metals.

Another use for retired ships is as museum ships. That is not happening as much as it used to. The big problem, for whoever takes large ships like carriers, is that you have to spend lots of money. It takes hundreds of millions to outfit a big ship as a museum and maintain it.

Another popular option is to use old ships for target practice. For example, most of the 30 decommissioned Spruance class destroyers were used for target practice. Some old warships are sunk closer to the shore, to provide reefs for fish and scuba divers. Running a SINKEX (sinking exercise) enables the navy to test some theories on how vulnerable, or invulnerable, modern warships are. But environmentalists oppose these two methods as well because it puts toxic materials into the ocean.

Going to the breakers is now seen as viable because of more efficient breaking techniques and higher prices for recycled metals. But the prices paid for this scrap metal are declining. The costs of dismantling nuclear powered ships are growing. The navy suddenly has a very large expense that it never expected. This will mean less money for new ships and training crews. That means less readiness for combat.
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

http://members.jacksonville.com/new...s-saratoga-headed-texas-scrapyard-price-penny



USS Saratoga headed for Texas scrapyard for the price of a penny
Carrier was Mayport fixture 37 years


By Clifford Davis Thu, May 15, 2014 @ 4:59 pm | updated Thu, May 15, 2014 @ 7:15 pm
Matt Miller cuts a solitary figure on the South Jetties, waving Old Glory proudly as the USS Saratoga enters the St. Johns River before swinging into Mayport Naval Station.
The Times-Union
Matt Miller cuts a solitary figure on the South Jetties, waving Old Glory proudly as the USS Saratoga enters the St. Johns River before swinging into Mayport Naval Station.

Photos

The aircraft carrier USS Saratoga returns home to Naval Station Mayport carrier basin in March 1991 after Desert Storm. The Times-Union
The Times-Union
The aircraft carrier USS Saratoga returns home to Naval Station Mayport carrier basin in March 1991 after Desert Storm.

One of the last, iconic members of Mayport Naval Station’s carrier fleet, the USS Saratoga, is headed for a scrap yard in Brownesville, Texas — all for the price of a penny.

“The Sara,” as she was called by her crew, was a fixture at Mayport for 37 years.

“Well, we knew it was coming,” said Brad Senter who served on the Saratoga as a machinist’s mate in the ‘60s. “You’re never ready for it, but you knew it was coming.”

Commissioned in 1956, the Saratoga pulled into Mayport for the first time the following year.

“The most powerful vessel ever constructed,” proclaimed the Navy at its commissioning. The ship with the $210 million price tag was “the last word in engineering perfection.”

Throughout its 38-year career, it would go on to serve in the Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam War, Desert Storm and several other combat duties mainly around the Mediterranean Sea.

Planes from the Sara were the first to shoot-down an Iraqi jet, but also suffered what would become the first casualty of the war, Navy Lt. Cmdr. Scott Speicher.

For Jacksonville, the loss of the Saratoga was a dark foreshadowing of things to come.

Though the USS John F. Kennedy would soon replace it, the death knell of Mayport’s carrier fleet had been sounded. For years, an effort to keep the ship in Jacksonville as a floating museum was kept alive by Senter and other members of the USS Saratoga Museum Foundation.

“We had that effort for about 10 years raising money and, unfortunately, when we were getting really close to getting enough money, the Navy stepped up and removed the ship from donation status,” Senter said. “They sent inspectors down there and said she’s just in way too bad of shape.”

Since leaving Mayport in 1994, the Sara has been docked at Newport Naval Station in Rhode Island, awaiting her fait. But on May 8, the Navy announced it had given ESCO Marine in Brownsville, Texas a penny to dispose of the ship.

Of course, 20 years of sitting around is no better for ships than it is for people.

“One of the reasons it took so long was that the scrap company that was bidding on the job had to get a DoD certification because the Saratoga’s hull is still considered classified,” Senter said.

Another reason for the Sara’s long wait for destruction was security and environmental concerns. Many older ships were sent to Asia to be deconstructed, far away from the EPA and its regulations.

But with increasing environmental awareness and concerns about recent military technology falling into foreign hands, the Navy has backed away from that process, according to Paul Ghiotto of the Jacksonville Maritime Museum.

It also provides American companies with jobs.

She will be next to her old mate, the USS Forrestal that is being disassembled by All Star Metals also in Brownsville.

It’s a sad, but realistic fact of Navy life, Ghiotto said.

“People expressed concern that they sold the Forrestal for a penny,” Ghiotto said. “But it takes a lot of money to keep those ships docked.”

However, for many in Jacksonville and the thousands that served aboard her, the memory of the Saratoga is worth much more than the price of a penny.

“It was such a fixture here at Mayport,” Ghiotto said. “For the people who lived and worked around Jacksonville, the Saratoga was always there.”

Clifford Davis: (904) 359-4103
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

They didn't offer it to sinkapore? Our scholar generals would love to have at least one aircraft carrier to show off.
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

http://www.seapowermagazine.org/stories/20140613-constellation.html

Navy Awards Contract to Dismantle Aircraft Carrier Constellation


WASHINGTON — The Navy competitively awarded a contract June 13 to International Shipbreaking Ltd. of Brownsville, Texas, for the towing, dismantling and recycling of conventionally powered aircraft carriers stricken from service, Naval Sea Systems Command announced in a release of the same date.

Under the contract, the company will be paid $3 million for the dismantling and recycling of the decommissioned aircraft carrier Constellation (CV 64). The price reflects the net price proposed by International Shipbreaking, which considered the estimated proceeds from the sale of the scrap metal to be generated from dismantling.

The Navy continues to own the ship during the dismantling process. The contractor takes ownership of the scrap metal as it is produced and sells the scrap to offset its costs of operations.

This is the third of three contracts for conventional aircraft carrier dismantling. All Star Metals of Brownsville was awarded the first contract on Oct. 22, which included the towing and dismantling of ex-USS Forrestal (AVT 59). ESCO Marine of Brownsville was awarded the second contract on May 8, for the scrapping of ex-USS Saratoga (CV 60).

After the initial award of one carrier to each successful offeror, the Navy has the capability of scrapping additional conventionally powered aircraft carriers over a five-year period under delivery orders competed between the three contractors.

International Shipbreaking now will develop its final tow plan for the Navy’s approval for the tow of Constellation from its current berth at Naval Base Kitsap, Wash., to the company’s facility in Brownsville. The ship is expected to depart Kitsap this summer. Navy civilian personnel will be on site full time to monitor the contractor's performance during dismantling of the ship.

Constellation was the second Kitty Hawk-class aircraft carrier to be built. It was laid down Sept. 14, 1957, at New York Naval Shipyard in Brooklyn, and was the last U.S. aircraft carrier to be built at a yard outside of Newport News Shipbuilding and Drydock Co. The ship was commissioned Oct. 27, 1961.

After nearly 42 years of commissioned service, Constellation was decommissioned at the Naval Air Station North Island in San Diego on Aug. 6, 2003. In September 2003, it was towed to the inactive ship maintenance facility in Bremerton to await its eventual disposal.
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

750px-USS_Saratoga_%28CV-60%29_underway_port_side_aerial.jpg


02_uss_forrestal_cv_59.jpg


Pride of USA sad ending, symbolizing the sunset of US superpower and war machinary empire.

End up worth ony 1 cent and sold to karanguni for scrap metals.

:D
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

They didn't offer it to sinkapore? Our scholar generals would love to have at least one aircraft carrier to show off.

:D

Liken to the 900cc Ah Beng SPORT CARS with tons of modification to make the tiny engines loudest in the world right?

:D
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

They didn't offer it to sinkapore? Our scholar generals would love to have at least one aircraft carrier to show off.

What for? Teo Chee Hean would ponder and ask: What do you think?
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

USSR at least smarter, one old carrier sold to PRC as a ShenZhen theme park:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/VFifAs-mHkM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Another one converted to be PRC Navy's pioneer training carrier:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/k29i3EI6c0I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


The actual first Chinese build service carrier is about to be launched:
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YFCfnJyhzF4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

1 cent Karaguni sale of USS Forrestal is particularly a serious insult to James Forrestal who the aircraft carrier was named after in honor of the late Secretary of Defense. His death was either suicide jump or thown down the hospital building murder, due to the dispute over building US navy ships.



James-Forrestal246x320.jpg


http://www.criminalelement.com/blog...e-james-forrestal-murder-or-suicide-tony-hays

Truman’s Secretary of Defense James Forrestal: Murder or Suicide?

Tony Hays

James ForrestalIn the conspiracy world, the death of James Forrestal is prima facie evidence of a cover-up of…. well, something. What that something is, is generally up for debate. But was his fall from the 16th floor of Bethesda Medical Center truly the suicide of a trouble man, or the murder of a man who knew too much?

James Forrestal was the last cabinet level Secretary of the Navy, and the first Secretary of Defense. But his primary civilian career had been in business on Wall Street. However, with the coming of the First World War, he joined the navy as an aviator, eventually reaching the rank of lieutenant. In the war’s aftermath, Forrestal became something of a prodigy at promoting Democratic candidates in New York. His neighbor, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, didn’t forget, and as World War II approached, Forrestal was appointed special administrative assistant to Roosevelt and, shortly thereafter, to the new position of undersecretary of the Navy. Upon the death of Frank Knox in 1944, Forrestal succeeded him as Secretary of the Navy.

Though an exemplary businessman, Forrestal was faced with the challenges of bringing a wartime Navy down to peacetime levels, a not inconsiderable task. When President Truman reorganized the defense establishment in 1947 and the position of Secretary of Defense emerged, Forrestal was the logical choice to lead the new defense department.

He ruffled some feathers as SecDef, urging the desegregation of our armed forces and opposing the partition of Palestine to allow for the creation of Israel. He consistently warned of the growing threat posed by the Soviet Union.

James Forrestal and Harry TrumanThe general story says that by 1948, Forrestal was weary from his years at Navy as well as overseeing the defense department. As the presidential election grew closer, Forrestal held some confidential meetings with Governor Thomas Dewey, Truman’s opponent, meetings designed to ensure that Forrestal would continue at the Defense Department if Dewey defeated Truman as was expected. Columnist Drew Pearson exposed the meetings some time before the election. The exposure strained already difficult relations between Truman and Forrestal, and in March 1949, Truman abruptly requested Forrestal’s resignation.

Here’s where the stories go haywire. For on the very day of Forrestal’s removal from office, he allegedly went into a deep depressive state. He was flown to Florida where his wife was vacationing. Dr. William Menninger diagnosed Forrestal as severely depressed, but rather than having Forrestal admitted to his own clinic, one that was familiar with such conditions, Forrestal was flown back to Bethesda and committed to the VIP suite of the National Naval Medical Center, an odd destination considering that Forrestal was no longer a government employee. Even stranger was the fact that access to him was severely limited, something the government denied, but that Forrestal’s brother, Henry, confirmed.

Murder theorists hang their hat on a couple of things. Henry Forrestal was preparing to have his brother discharged and taken to a restful location in the country on May 22nd. But in the early morning hours of that day, Forrestal’s body was found on the outside ground after apparently jumping to his death. Here is what bothers such theorists most. Forrestal was last seen at 1:45 a.m., awake, copying a passage from Sophocles’ play Ajax. He rejected a sedative, saying he planned to stay up late. Approximately 15 minutes later, Forrestal was dead. He had apparently chosen to jump out of a bathroom window, which was far smaller than the window in his main room. What was even stranger was that he had the belt to his bathrobe tied around his throat, but there was no evidence that it had been tied to anything inside the bathroom, as he would have done if attempting to hang himself. The fact that a man considered suicidal was placed on the 16th floor also raises eyebrows, especially when it’s learned that his caretakers had preferred a ground floor room.

The death was immediately labeled a suicide before any investigation had taken place. The local police were frozen out, and the Navy ran the show. A Chaplain Sheehy, who came to the hospital upon hearing of Forrestal’s death was reportedly approached by a corpsman who claimed that the former SecDef did not kill himself. Whether James Forrestal killed himself or he was the victim of a murder, everything possible was done to keep the official story intact.

So far so good. Enough loose threads to justify doubting the government’s rather hasty conclusion. However, homicides generally have a motive. And this is where the Forrestal case gets kind of murky. Why would anyone want Forrestal dead? He was no longer Secretary of Defense, having essentially been fired by President Truman. One rather strange thing did happen on the day that Forrestal stepped down, and Louis Johnson was sworn in. Secretary of the Air Force Stuart Symington, no friend of Forrestal’s, told him that he needed to speak to Forrestal confidentially. They rode back to the Pentagon in the same vehicle. Witnesses say that whatever the pair discussed, it had a traumatic impact on Forrestal, who very nearly entered a catatonic state.

UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Cover-Up, 1941 to 1973 by Richard DolanRichard Dolan, in his 2001 book UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Cover-Up, 1941 to 1973, suggests that Forrestal was in a position to know the truth about UFOs and that perhaps Symington’s chat was related to that. If Forrestal was as mentally unbalanced as the government would have people believe, so the theory goes, his removal might have been accomplished to keep him from revealing what he knew. It has also been speculated that Forrestal’s vehement anti-Soviet beliefs may have made him the target of the KGB. Forrestal also kept a diary that might have been embarrassing to the Truman administration. And it was the Truman administration that immediately seized Forrestal’s diary upon his death.

Before all of the skeptics start shouting, the truth is that four years later, a CIA officer named Frank Olson was tossed out of a New York hotel window. It was claimed that Olson jumped as well, after a reported bad trip on LSD. But the Olson family refused to accept the official story and forty-one years later, after Olson’s body was exhumed, forensic analysis proved that Olson had been clobbered on the head immediately prior to his fall.

Murder or suicide? Without more evidence, it’s an impossible question to answer. Forrestal is now interred at Arlington National Cemetery, but it would be interesting to see what a forensic examination of his remains might reveal.

When Tony Hays isn’t traveling the world, teaching students, and adopting puppies, he takes time out to write the Arthurian Mystery series from Tor/Forge.

See all posts by Tony Hays for Criminal Element.
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

Now his honor is left to the worth of only 1 cent.

Sad lah!
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

Useless Obama government's incompetent deal.

No wonder his government goes bankrupt and went shut down operations. Clown joker elected by western democracy. Ha ha ha!
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

i think its time for Singapore to look into commissioning a building a aircraft carrier project with China,im sure the 4.5 billion price tag of a nitmitz class carrier is nothing but a peanut for PAP....singapore must spare no effort and leave no stone unturned to be the number 1 nation in the world!!!!
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

i think its time for Singapore to look into commissioning a building a aircraft carrier project with China,im sure the 4.5 billion price tag of a nitmitz class carrier is nothing but a peanut for PAP....singapore must spare no effort and leave no stone unturned to be the number 1 nation in the world!!!!

Make sure the FTs sail away on it;
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

i think its time for Singapore to look into commissioning a building a aircraft carrier project with China,im sure the 4.5 billion price tag of a nitmitz class carrier is nothing but a peanut for PAP....singapore must spare no effort and leave no stone unturned to be the number 1 nation in the world!!!!

So u gonna hire entire villages of banglas to man it.
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

They didn't offer it to sinkapore? Our scholar generals would love to have at least one aircraft carrier to show off.

Ya man nothing beats an aircraft carrier for howlian pap to project power
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

For 1 cent it would make an ideal mausoleum for the old man. There's even room for the other members of his family,
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

So u gonna hire entire villages of banglas to man it.

maybe we can call it USS Bangladesh.

[video=youtube;NDz2F4GnpOg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDz2F4GnpOg[/video]
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

750px-USS_Saratoga_%28CV-60%29_underway_port_side_aerial.jpg


02_uss_forrestal_cv_59.jpg


Pride of USA sad ending, symbolizing the sunset of US superpower and war machinary empire.

End up worth ony 1 cent and sold to karanguni for scrap metals.

:D

Looks HDB Block #50 & #59 with their big block number sign board on the deck. Plus a mini Changi Airport on the roof. LKY must buy over these shit and pay Obama a billion bugs each. :D KNN
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

Sell to PRC, they can use it to test all their lastest carrier sinker missiles and supersonic torpedos. Sure pay much more $$CASH$$ than that. :D
 
Re: Sad Sad US Navy super carriers USS Forrestal USS Saratoga unwanted Karanguni @1 c

Sell to PRC, they can use it to test all their lastest carrier sinker missiles and supersonic torpedos. Sure pay much more $$CASH$$ than that. :D

excellent suggestion
 
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