Roy Ngerng should not retract his article and say sorry to the PM!!

[Leongsam]

you whack him well.

put money in bank can withdraw anytime you want. PAP take 25% of your monthly pay and tell you at age 55 you can have it back.

Where are the trust today?

If you cannot see your money they cannot be your leader or gahment, simple.

There are many countries where the government takes 40% to 50% of your money every year and you'll never see it again because it is used to pay useless, lazy members of society for doing nothing.

Take a look at http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/servi.../pages/individual-income-tax-rates-table.aspx

When you pass judgement on the PAP, you have to compare it with far more draconian extortion rackets in many Western nations... the very ones Singaporeans hold in high regard.

 

[kaipoh]

In theory the dogma is right, but I have been advised by many financial consultants you need to put aside at least couple of millions in order to lead a decent living in Stingapore. Now the problem here, how many of the peasant are able to accumulate this astronomical figure for retirement? Only PAP's MP can! Boss Sam can! I understood but the peasants? (Inflation, future money value....疑惑呀!). Ok, you mentioned future value, are the cpf depositors getting a good deal for the money they parked in cpf? Anyway I am not getting millions dollars salary, I don't know.
My off spring graduated have job that earned petite she probably have my property, but I still have to worry about what she will go thru in life in Stingapore. All these not a 17yo high school student's problem, this is Singapore citizens' problem. How ?

The sum cannot be kept static for the simple reason that the the value of money changes with time.

Please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_value_of_money in order to educate yourself.

However, this does not alter the fact that any Singaporean can withdraw the full amount in excess of the minimum sum at the age of 55. This age has not changed since day one. The PAP government has always honored its word. That is why the bond between the government and the people is so strong.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Yes but that only applies to people who aren't very competent. When I discuss issues here, I expect to be having a dialogue with intelligent and well informed people who are capable of accumulating far more than the paltry minimum sum that is prudently held back.
.

You can't debate policies based on your own abilities or worldview. Politics is about the people. If half the people cannot set aside the minimum sum you stipulate, the system or the policies are wrong.

The problem with governments doing financial planning on behalf of the people is that first, you need Big government to do that, and second, after a while it becomes too tempting for the govt to use retirement funds as a cheap source of funds.

 

[kaipoh]

Boss, I have a suggestion, since our mps are the creme de la creme, can LHL send them to all the countries that our govt has invested to reap many millions dollars profits, by so doing mps can justify their salary, our cpf min. sum and our medical expenses can be reduced, ERP, COE... etc can be abolished. Every one happy, long live PAP!
I am a patriot of Singapore and always salute LKY's govern country vs business theory. If the American company Procter & Gamble can do it, we can do it too! hallelujah!

CPF money is not gambled away. It is invested wisely by a team of consummate professionals who have achieved excellent returns.

A few investments may have turned sour and made the headlines but every fund ends up with a handful of duds. Even Warren Buffet has lost big time here and there.

What is far more important is the bottom line which has performed extremely well.

 

[steffychun]

Boss, I have a suggestion, since our mps are the creme de la creme, can LHL send them to all the countries that our govt has invested to reap many millions dollars profits, by so doing mps can justify their salary, our cpf min. sum and our medical expenses can be reduced, ERP, COE... etc can be abolished. Every one happy, long live PAP!
I am a patriot of Singapore and always salute LKY's govern country vs business theory. If the American company Procter & Gamble can do it, we can do it too! hallelujah!

Good recommendation.

 

[winnipegjets]

There are many countries where the government takes 40% to 50% of your money every year and you'll never see it again because it is used to pay useless, lazy members of society for doing nothing.

Take a look at http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/servi.../pages/individual-income-tax-rates-table.aspx

When you pass judgement on the PAP, you have to compare it with far more draconian extortion rackets in many Western nations... the very ones Singaporeans hold in high regard.

Pure right-wing bs. I expect better from you.

Take for example, the Netherlands. Yeah, the citizens pay 50 percent tax. For that, the parents don't need to worry about health care cost for the whole family, the cost of education (from pre-school to university) and the kids get a monthly stipend as well. This is the personal benefit of pooling tax dollars to benefit the people. Yes, there will always be deadwood and freeloaders. That's reality of life. Suck it up or you kill the deadwood and freeloaders.

 

[freedalas]

The PAP does not keep your money. The money is still yours. What the PAP is doing is helping you to be financially responsible by ensuring that your savings will last.

Surely those who have children will understand why this is necessary. My dad used to give me $2 a day to spend. He could have given me $14 at the beginning of each week but then I would have spent it all in a couple of days and would have had no money till the following week.

Would any of you hand over a year's or even a month's worth of pocket money to your children? I doubt it. There might be some exceptional cases where a kid has shown himself to be very astute at managing finances from a young age but the majority would simply spend the whole lot and then expect their parents to bail them out.

Your analogy is an absolute distortion of the fact. When a father gives pocket money to his child, the money belongs to the father and so he has absolute right in deciding how much he wants to give to the child. But in the case of CPF, the monies belongs to the people and not the government. The people had earned it through their hard work and it's entirely theirs. So they should be the one to decide how much he wishes to withdraw. The government has no right to place any condition on it.

A more relevant analogy is this. When a young man starts working, he gives a portion of his salary to his father to safekeep on the condition that he takes back all the monies when he reaches 55. He has the right to do so because the monies are his, through his work paid salary. The monies do not belong to the father whose role is only to safekeep it till his son turns 55. Now, when the son turns 55, the father said he can't hand over all the monies back to his son because he fear he loses them all?

 

[freedalas]

I'm not barring anyone. All I'm saying is that I expect a basic level of intellect and financial literacy amongst members here.

However, I am suggesting that those who don't make the cut might be more comfortable in a forum more suited to their abilities.

The minimum sum of $155,000 is such a small amount that I don't expect it to be an issue with the majority of educated Singaporeans who populate the net.

People do not come to this forum just to air their own grievances. Many come here to speak for the plights of others though they may not be in the same boat. Many do so because they personally encounter people who are suffering and want to highlight it here. This they do with the aim of raising awareness that PAP policies had led many to hardships and not all the success stories the mainstream media selectively portray.

 

[bakkuttay]

Success stories of the old and weak being employable
as table cleaner, toilet jaga, trolleypusher, mrt station sweeper.... blahblahblah....

 

[Leongsam]

Your analogy is an absolute distortion of the fact. When a father gives pocket money to his child, the money belongs to the father and so he has absolute right in deciding how much he wants to give to the child. But in the case of CPF, the monies belongs to the people and not the government. The people had earned it through their hard work and it's entirely theirs. So they should be the one to decide how much he wishes to withdraw. The government has no right to place any condition on it.

A more relevant analogy is this. When a young man starts working, he gives a portion of his salary to his father to safekeep on the condition that he takes back all the monies when he reaches 55. He has the right to do so because the monies are his, through his work paid salary. The monies do not belong to the father whose role is only to safekeep it till his son turns 55. Now, when the son turns 55, the father said he can't hand over all the monies back to his son because he fear he loses them all?

You forget that CPF is a government initiative created for the sake of ensuring that Singaporeans have sufficient savings for their old age. The government also mandated that employers MUST contribute to an employees CPF too so it is pretty obvious that the government has the interest of Singaporean employees at heart.

Since the scheme is created by the government, they have every right to call the shots when it comes to how the retirement savings are managed.

However, there is nothing to stop any Singaporean from creating their own retirement saving fund. He can give a portion of his salary to his father, his uncle, his auntie or to a bank or financial institution. When he turns 55 or any other milestone age that he chooses, he can help himself to the all the money accrued over the years.

 

[winnipegjets]

You forget that CPF is a government initiative created for the sake of ensuring that Singaporeans have sufficient savings for their old age. The government also mandated that employers MUST contribute to an employees CPF too.

How can one have sufficient money saved for retirement when the savings is eaten up by inflation?

Since the scheme is created by the government, they have every right to call the shots when it comes to how the retirement savings are managed.

Not when they are robbing you.

However, there is nothing to stop any Singaporean from creating their own retirement saving fund. He can give a portion of his salary to his father, his uncle, his auntie or to a bank or financial institution. When he turns 55 or any other milestone age that he chooses, he can help himself to the all the money accrued over the years.

Sinkees don't earn that much, you know.

 

[Leongsam]

People do not come to this forum just to air their own grievances. Many come here to speak for the plights of others though they may not be in the same boat. Many do so because they personally encounter people who are suffering and want to highlight it here. This they do with the aim of raising awareness that PAP policies had led many to hardships and not all the success stories the mainstream media selectively portray.

While I sympathise with the plight of some who have sub par intelligence or ability, we cannot build a society around the lowest common denominator. It would be a disaster and Singapore would end up bankrupt like Greece.

The government has an obligation to make a country as successful as possible bearing in mind that the world is a very competitive place. To do this it must do all it can to make it as easy as possible for the gifted and talented Singaporeans to thrive and prosper.

To build a winning olympic team, you take those with the best potential and give them all the assistance they need to become gold medalists. You don't create a training program that suits someone who is a cripple.

It's the same at country level. Policies have to suit the best that the country has to offer so an environment is created where they can thrive and be at their most productive.

 

[Leongsam]

How can one have sufficient money saved for retirement when the savings is eaten up by inflation?

Sinkees don't earn that much, you know.

Nobody in his right mind would leave their money in cash over the long term. There are a whole host of inflation fighting investment vehicles. I have always used those which are linked to property prices and this strategy has never let me down.

Singapore is one of the richest nations on earth so when you say "Singaporeans don't earn much", you have to put it in context. Not everyone can afford a Merc or a Beemer but that does not make them poor.

 

[frenchbriefs]

While I sympathise with the plight of some who have sub par intelligence or ability, we cannot build a society around the lowest common denominator. It would be a disaster and Singapore would end up bankrupt like Greece.

The government has an obligation to make a country as successful as possible bearing in mind that the world is a very competitive place. To do this it must do all it can to make it as easy as possible for the gifted and talented Singaporeans to thrive and prosper.

To build a winning olympic team, you take those with the best potential and give them all the assistance they need to become gold medalists. You don't create a training program that suits someone who is a cripple.

It's the same at country level. Policies have to suit the best that the country has to offer so an environment is created where they can thrive and be at their most productive.

we building a society based around pinoys and mudskins arent we?so when we going back to the stone age?

 

[Leongsam]

Pure right-wing bs. I expect better from you.

Take for example, the Netherlands. Yeah, the citizens pay 50 percent tax. For that, the parents don't need to worry about health care cost for the whole family, the cost of education (from pre-school to university) and the kids get a monthly stipend as well. This is the personal benefit of pooling tax dollars to benefit the people. Yes, there will always be deadwood and freeloaders. That's reality of life. Suck it up or you kill the deadwood and freeloaders.

It is easy to create all sorts of fancy financial schemes in order to win votes. However, no country can spend more than it earns and Netherlands, like many other European nations with overly generous welfare schemes, is broke.

I certainly do not want Singapore to end up in the same situation.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/economic-crisis-hits-the-netherlands-a-891919.html

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/10/23/dutc-o23.html

As a result, austerity measures are being introduced and health care is no longer free. The Dutch now have to pay for their hospital stays and numerous other services which used to be FOC.

No person can live beyond their means forever. The same applies to countries.

Thanks to the astute and prudent management of the country by the PAP, Singapore is in a much better state of health.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Nobody in his right mind would leave their money in cash over the long term. There are a whole host of inflation fighting investment vehicles. I have always used those which are linked to property prices and this strategy has never let me down.

Singapore is one of the richest nations on earth so when you say "Singaporeans don't earn much", you have to put it in context. Not everyone can afford a Merc or a Beemer but that does not make them poor.

america is also one of the rich and most powerful countries in the world but it doesnt change the fact 1/6th of their population live in poverty and there are 10 million american children malnourished.

 

[Leongsam]

we building a society based around pinoys and mudskins arent we?so when we going back to the stone age?

The Pinoys and the Mudskins are there to serve you. They are a cheap resource which Singaporeans can use to create wealth for themselves.

The reason why I still have a profitable office in Singapore but not in NZ is because these people are available to do my bidding. In NZ, I would have to pay more than 3 times what I am paying Mudskins in Singapore. I closed my NZ office many years ago. It was impossible to turn a profit.

 

[Leongsam]

america is also one of the rich and most powerful countries in the world but it doesnt change the fact 1/6th of their population live in poverty and there are 10 million american children malnourished.

Have you been to the USA? The so called "poor" are fatter than pigs! plus they all drive cars and own color TVs, cell phones, xboxs etc.

The USA is a land of opportunity. Anybody can make it big if they choose to. If there are failures in society, it is their own fault.

 

[scroobal]

Couple of clarifications and the restatement of key issues;

1) The PAP did not create the CPF. British Govt of the day did.

2) Malaysia EPF provides a far greater return than the CPF

3) Malaysia EPF is also guaranteed by the Govt

4) Most pension funds have outperformed the CPF returns

5) The CPF till today has never ever published a comparison tables with other provident or pension fund. It once did a comparison study with the US Social Security which is not a Provident or pension fund. ( we are talking about apples and oranges)

6) CPF funds is the primary and largest source of fresh capital for all 3 Govt investment vehicles (1) MAS, (2) Temasek and (3) GIC

7) After returning the returns due to CPF, the NIRC (the net return investment contribution each year is about $7B. (as in billion)

8) The returns to CPF is about $8.4B a year. Despite providing the bulk of the capital , CPF gets back about 50% in return.

To draw an analogy. You (CPF member) have asked your dad (PAP Govt) to invest $100 for you. Your dad (PAP Govt) then invest and gets a return of $15. Your Dad (PAP Govt) then tells he got you $8 for the $100 investment. Your dad(PAP Govt) does not tell you that he pocketed the $7. One day your mother mentions the $15 return. You ask your Dad (PAP Govt). He tells you that he loves and cares for you. He also tells you that the $7 he kept helps pay for the food that you eat.

After 10 years, you call your Dad and say that you want to take out the $100 plus all the $8 per year accumulated over 10 yearswhich comes to $100+$80=$180. Your dad then tells you that he can only give you $65 back as the remainder has to be set aside for food when you visit the family home.

You get upset, you call your siblings and hold a family meeting and demand answers. Your dad (PAP Govt) tell you and your siblings that if investment went sour, he would personally guarantee the $100.

You then realise that your dad is an absolute bastard. You also realise that his second wife (your step mum) is running AhSoh Fund Management Pte Ltd. and you put 2 and 2 together. And you also realise your constituency is East Coast GRC.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Have you been to the USA? The so called "poor" are fatter than pigs! plus they all drive cars and own color TVs, cell phones, xboxs etc.

The USA is a land of opportunity. Anybody can make it big if they choose to. If there are failures in society, it is their own fault.

actually the poorest people tend to be fat.....since they usually have poor diets of cheap junk food.....u will never see the ang moh expats at cold storage checking out frozen pizzas and deli chicken.....they only eat the finest salmon cuts and sirloin steaks.spending $100 on salmon alone is nothing to them.

and colour tvs and cell phones and xboxs?are u by any chance a relative of ng eng hen?