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Return My CPF Thread: Han HuiHui & Roy Ngerng vs the CPF/NParks
- Thread starter xingguy
- Start date
Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
Joshua Chiang
"The dictionary definition of “heckle” indicates that the insult has to be directed at the person it was intended to put down. As such, did the CPF protesters deliberately try to be aggressive towards, abuse or taunt the special needs children present at the YMCA event, whether on or off stage?
All onsite video recordings seem to indicate that, while they were rowdy, they did not seem to have directed their words at the children performing. TOC posted a video online to show a different perspective, but it is already apparent that the video used to demonstrate heckling did not seem to contain any of the sort.
As always, read the right thing.As always, read the right thing.
However, what we see being reported in a “reputable” broadsheet like The Straits Times is that they deliberately sought to make life difficult for the children. “Special needs children heckled as Hong Lim Park rallygoers disrupt charity carnival”. That is as much sensationalism as you can cram into one headline."
http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2014/09/the-double-event-at-hlp-and-an-unwarranted-clash/
Joshua Chiang
"The dictionary definition of “heckle” indicates that the insult has to be directed at the person it was intended to put down. As such, did the CPF protesters deliberately try to be aggressive towards, abuse or taunt the special needs children present at the YMCA event, whether on or off stage?
All onsite video recordings seem to indicate that, while they were rowdy, they did not seem to have directed their words at the children performing. TOC posted a video online to show a different perspective, but it is already apparent that the video used to demonstrate heckling did not seem to contain any of the sort.
As always, read the right thing.As always, read the right thing.
However, what we see being reported in a “reputable” broadsheet like The Straits Times is that they deliberately sought to make life difficult for the children. “Special needs children heckled as Hong Lim Park rallygoers disrupt charity carnival”. That is as much sensationalism as you can cram into one headline."
http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2014/09/the-double-event-at-hlp-and-an-unwarranted-clash/
Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
Alfian Sa'at:
I see this phrase 'protesters heckle special needs children' on my newsfeed. Unsurprisingly, PAP MP's are opportunistically swooping in, claiming that as much as Singapore should tolerate debate and disagreement (though the PAP itself has no credible record of defending free speech), a line has been definitively crossed, it was a step too far, this is no longer civil society but mob barbarism etc. I look at the videos and wonder--the protesters look like they're shouting, and then on stage the special needs children assemble for a performance--but does this qualify as 'heckling'?
The phrase gives the impression that the protestors were specifically targeting the special needs children, insulting and belittling them. But the protestors had already begun chanting 'return our CPF' before the performance began, and not all of them were facing the stage. I don't think it's possible that they could have addressed the special needs children to return their CPF money. When you heckle, it is with the intention of criticising a performance and interrupting performers--with aggressive comments and abuse. 'Booing' is a form of heckling, as are shouts of 'get off the stage', 'you're lousy' and 'f*** off'.
A more accurate report would have stated: 'protesters continue chanting during performance by special needs children'. This inconsiderate and insensitive behaviour (and yes let's call it for what it is) is also hard to excuse, but it doesn't suggest the malice involved in 'heckling'. We'll probably be seeing more ink spilled on how crowds at Hong Lim Park can get emotive, that there is danger in rousing emotions, etc. But let's also be aware that words like 'heckle' are no less emotive, the kind of sniper bullet used in character assassination.
Alfian Sa'at:
I see this phrase 'protesters heckle special needs children' on my newsfeed. Unsurprisingly, PAP MP's are opportunistically swooping in, claiming that as much as Singapore should tolerate debate and disagreement (though the PAP itself has no credible record of defending free speech), a line has been definitively crossed, it was a step too far, this is no longer civil society but mob barbarism etc. I look at the videos and wonder--the protesters look like they're shouting, and then on stage the special needs children assemble for a performance--but does this qualify as 'heckling'?
The phrase gives the impression that the protestors were specifically targeting the special needs children, insulting and belittling them. But the protestors had already begun chanting 'return our CPF' before the performance began, and not all of them were facing the stage. I don't think it's possible that they could have addressed the special needs children to return their CPF money. When you heckle, it is with the intention of criticising a performance and interrupting performers--with aggressive comments and abuse. 'Booing' is a form of heckling, as are shouts of 'get off the stage', 'you're lousy' and 'f*** off'.
A more accurate report would have stated: 'protesters continue chanting during performance by special needs children'. This inconsiderate and insensitive behaviour (and yes let's call it for what it is) is also hard to excuse, but it doesn't suggest the malice involved in 'heckling'. We'll probably be seeing more ink spilled on how crowds at Hong Lim Park can get emotive, that there is danger in rousing emotions, etc. But let's also be aware that words like 'heckle' are no less emotive, the kind of sniper bullet used in character assassination.
Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
Ananth Tambyah:
It would be good for the people who are making comments to check the facts before shooting off. The video is very clear. If anything, the marchers were the "filler" entertainment in between the performances!!!
Ananth Tambyah:
It would be good for the people who are making comments to check the facts before shooting off. The video is very clear. If anything, the marchers were the "filler" entertainment in between the performances!!!
Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
Molly Meek
There isn't much of a trap if people would just realize that when someone who is against the policies of the ruling party does something questionable, it doesn't mean that everyone who is against the ruling party is any way is wrong, and neither does it mean that when someone does something questionable, everything s/he does is questionable.
If people would just stop looking for simple compartments to pigeonhole others into (together with themselves), the trap is just a small pit, not a massive sinkhole.
Molly Meek
There isn't much of a trap if people would just realize that when someone who is against the policies of the ruling party does something questionable, it doesn't mean that everyone who is against the ruling party is any way is wrong, and neither does it mean that when someone does something questionable, everything s/he does is questionable.
If people would just stop looking for simple compartments to pigeonhole others into (together with themselves), the trap is just a small pit, not a massive sinkhole.
Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
The Online Citizen
"Finally, during the protest, the Emcee for the YMCA event had countered that “We love the CPF” and tried to incite the audience to chant after him. Why did he do that? Did he not know that this would have inflamed passions further?"
http://lifttheveilofignorance.wordpress.com/2014/09/28/unanswered-questions-at-hong-lim-park/
The Online Citizen
"Finally, during the protest, the Emcee for the YMCA event had countered that “We love the CPF” and tried to incite the audience to chant after him. Why did he do that? Did he not know that this would have inflamed passions further?"
http://lifttheveilofignorance.wordpress.com/2014/09/28/unanswered-questions-at-hong-lim-park/
Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
葉子傑
This Post I have Questions for NPARK to answer!
1. Why NPARK allow picnic in Speakers' Corner!
2. If YMCA had applied before Miss Han Hui Hui,
Why you still Approved her Application?
3. NPark should know, there are so many Parks in
the whole off Singapore, you should ask YMCA
to go other Parks because Speaker's Corner is
For Speakers and not for Pinic.....!
4. Today's action from NPark is totally a very
Disgraced thing to do, as this thing shouldn't
Had Happened if you are doing your job....!
5. NPark had disgraced the government's department!
Last but not least YMCA you also in the wrong!
葉子傑
This Post I have Questions for NPARK to answer!
1. Why NPARK allow picnic in Speakers' Corner!
2. If YMCA had applied before Miss Han Hui Hui,
Why you still Approved her Application?
3. NPark should know, there are so many Parks in
the whole off Singapore, you should ask YMCA
to go other Parks because Speaker's Corner is
For Speakers and not for Pinic.....!
4. Today's action from NPark is totally a very
Disgraced thing to do, as this thing shouldn't
Had Happened if you are doing your job....!
5. NPark had disgraced the government's department!
Last but not least YMCA you also in the wrong!
Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
Gwee Li Sui
The mistake is clearly NParks's. 1 application shouldn't have been approved. What I'm still puzzled about is why YMCA thought its application was approved in April when it was, in fact, approved on 9 Sept. (The protestors' were approved on 22 Sept.)
Gwee Li Sui
The mistake is clearly NParks's. 1 application shouldn't have been approved. What I'm still puzzled about is why YMCA thought its application was approved in April when it was, in fact, approved on 9 Sept. (The protestors' were approved on 22 Sept.)
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Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
To the pappies and their dogs, facts don't matter. The protesters are 'vile' for 'heckling' special needs kids. Hence they are crazy, just like their pursuit of the CPF issue. End of story.
To the pappies and their dogs, facts don't matter. The protesters are 'vile' for 'heckling' special needs kids. Hence they are crazy, just like their pursuit of the CPF issue. End of story.
Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
Molly Meek
It does seem from this video that protestors were indeed making noise and disrupting the YMCA event (perhaps deliberately even). Were they "heckling" the children? I can't really tell from this video itself (can't make out what is being shouted).
"Heckled" seems to have become the default word to use. Of course, it sounds so much more potent to describe the protestors as heckling children (and special needs children at that!) than to simply represent them as being unnecessarily disruptive at the YMCA event.
I think it's fair enough for those circulating the video and those watching it to object to the behavior of the protestors, but a consideration of whether alleged heckling is really shown in the video would be necessary. Those with sharper ears than mine can perhaps make out how the protestors were specifically targeting the children and hurling insults or abusive words at them.
Similarly, whether the NParks representative was really being unreasonable in a video circulated by Roy needs to be determined by those watching it. (But at least I can make out what people are saying in that one.)
Molly Meek
It does seem from this video that protestors were indeed making noise and disrupting the YMCA event (perhaps deliberately even). Were they "heckling" the children? I can't really tell from this video itself (can't make out what is being shouted).
"Heckled" seems to have become the default word to use. Of course, it sounds so much more potent to describe the protestors as heckling children (and special needs children at that!) than to simply represent them as being unnecessarily disruptive at the YMCA event.
I think it's fair enough for those circulating the video and those watching it to object to the behavior of the protestors, but a consideration of whether alleged heckling is really shown in the video would be necessary. Those with sharper ears than mine can perhaps make out how the protestors were specifically targeting the children and hurling insults or abusive words at them.
Similarly, whether the NParks representative was really being unreasonable in a video circulated by Roy needs to be determined by those watching it. (But at least I can make out what people are saying in that one.)
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Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
What we really need is some private park that can be used as a public meeting ground, without the need to beg for permits or hope that the authorities won't screw you over with their nefarious agendas.
What we really need is some private park that can be used as a public meeting ground, without the need to beg for permits or hope that the authorities won't screw you over with their nefarious agendas.
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Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
js read the shit times this morning. according to ST, ymca applied one day b4 hhh and each was allocated a designated spot.
so here's the catch: who's telling what?
perhaps some could copynpaste the sunday shit times which carries this leeport which seems to be siding ah luck. this whole saga was again play in a one sided pic by another FB's FABRICATION AGAINST THE PAP or something like that and all those pap mps as usualy try to score political points by hurling accusation about HHH and gang's "uncompassionate action against some charity thing".
this whole matter does look a bit strange, planned, schemed and warped.
if we look deeper, it has already created a great divide between all singaporeans. i m o, THE GAHMEN SHOULD RETURN US OUR CPFS. the least they could do is to allow us a CHOICE to whether withdraw all or partial or choose to leave it with them when our withdrawal age of 55 is reached.
they cannot always use "apprehensive" projection into the future with such lame equation: "if u do not listen and follow me, u shall suffer" kind of mentality to con singaporeans.
singapoeans are getting smarter and wiser now. they know what and how to decide for themselves and the gahmen should stop meddling into our private affairs on how we should or shouldn't spend our own $$.
js read the shit times this morning. according to ST, ymca applied one day b4 hhh and each was allocated a designated spot.
so here's the catch: who's telling what?
perhaps some could copynpaste the sunday shit times which carries this leeport which seems to be siding ah luck. this whole saga was again play in a one sided pic by another FB's FABRICATION AGAINST THE PAP or something like that and all those pap mps as usualy try to score political points by hurling accusation about HHH and gang's "uncompassionate action against some charity thing".
this whole matter does look a bit strange, planned, schemed and warped.
if we look deeper, it has already created a great divide between all singaporeans. i m o, THE GAHMEN SHOULD RETURN US OUR CPFS. the least they could do is to allow us a CHOICE to whether withdraw all or partial or choose to leave it with them when our withdrawal age of 55 is reached.
they cannot always use "apprehensive" projection into the future with such lame equation: "if u do not listen and follow me, u shall suffer" kind of mentality to con singaporeans.
singapoeans are getting smarter and wiser now. they know what and how to decide for themselves and the gahmen should stop meddling into our private affairs on how we should or shouldn't spend our own $$.
Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
hahahahahaaaa, good one, love your post
Heckling Teo Ser Luck is equivalent to heckling a special needs child.
Ergo, Teo Ser Luck is a special needs child.
I see what you did there, SPH.
hahahahahaaaa, good one, love your post
Re: National Parks v Han Hui Hui
good.......only PAPpigs and PAPdogs felt annoyed
hahahahhahahaaaaa.......................
HHH was really annoying in one of the video
good.......only PAPpigs and PAPdogs felt annoyed
hahahahhahahaaaaa.......................
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Re: what really happened at hong lim park on saturday
Even if you had allocated a different spot, it is daft as HLP isn't too big and the noise from each event will mingle. There's also the additional crowd control required.
Either you ensure that the time slot doesn't clash, or move one event to another day. Simple as that.
Now you know why they're sending NParks officers for self-defence courses. With that kind of attitude and ineptitude, it is little wonder people want to punch them in the face.
Even if you had allocated a different spot, it is daft as HLP isn't too big and the noise from each event will mingle. There's also the additional crowd control required.
Either you ensure that the time slot doesn't clash, or move one event to another day. Simple as that.
Now you know why they're sending NParks officers for self-defence courses. With that kind of attitude and ineptitude, it is little wonder people want to punch them in the face.
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