Actually I am not the investor. Asking on behalf of my father.
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Regulators Refusing to Act - Hyflux & Noble Group's Decline
- Thread starter JustLikeThis
- Start date
Actually I am not the investor. Asking on behalf of my father.
Honk: Bond Market Health Check
https://www.hnworth.com/article/2019/04/29/honk-bond-market-health-check
How safe are the bond markets anyway?
That would be the tougher question it would appear than car horns but there is no turning back. After another close call last week, with CWT Singapore’s close shave with bond markets and managing to redeem their SGD bond maturity just days after their parent, HNA-controlled CWT International (521 HK), triggered a cross default. Luck would be on the Singapore market’s side (much similar to those Swiber bonds that were redeemed just weeks before the company defaulted with no impropriety found) as CACHE Logistics’ and AIMS Reit’s bonds get some room to breathe aside of the CWT contagion.
It does not help that the S&P rating agency had to audaciously poke their noses into the Singapore markets injecting a dose of pessimism, despite not being a big player in the local rating scene, we would wonder where they have been all these years and given that Moody’s is the preferred rating agency as far as Singapore dollar bonds are concerned.
Yes, the only ones happy for a default would be the reporters mainly, reveling in the Hyflux debacle right now to fill those pages with “newsworthy” news, “tabloid” style as it continues to drag with this week’s smoke-and-mirrors stunt and the sudden emergence of a new white knight at the 11th hour.
As for the frantic friend who had called asking for an opinion on his NOL bond (price fell off a cliff), our unsympathetic reply, “Told you to sell them, no, when you were up 10% last year?”
And the sentiments did not improve much this week after Bloomberg published another sensational new Singapore default watchlist which had to include that NOL bond of his, along with the other CWT that is maturing next year, Lippo Malls, Oxley and Vibrant Group.
We suspect the reporter must have sought inspiration from a similar source and yet we wonder why First REIT and Pacific International Lines were not brought up.
It is scarce comfort knowing that Singapore’s “zombies” are nearly flushed out of bond markets, with just Hyflux left although we cannot be sure if fraud continues to pop up, like the problem SGX has with this Best World for misrepresenting their Chinese assets, this week.
On the default count, and including the exchanged bonds, it has been over SGD 4 bio, thanks to Hyflux for ratcheting the number up by SGD1.35 billion although the perpetuals are not in default status yet. Here is a little tombstone for the fallen names since 2015.
https://www.hnworth.com/article/2019/04/29/honk-bond-market-health-check
How safe are the bond markets anyway?
That would be the tougher question it would appear than car horns but there is no turning back. After another close call last week, with CWT Singapore’s close shave with bond markets and managing to redeem their SGD bond maturity just days after their parent, HNA-controlled CWT International (521 HK), triggered a cross default. Luck would be on the Singapore market’s side (much similar to those Swiber bonds that were redeemed just weeks before the company defaulted with no impropriety found) as CACHE Logistics’ and AIMS Reit’s bonds get some room to breathe aside of the CWT contagion.
It does not help that the S&P rating agency had to audaciously poke their noses into the Singapore markets injecting a dose of pessimism, despite not being a big player in the local rating scene, we would wonder where they have been all these years and given that Moody’s is the preferred rating agency as far as Singapore dollar bonds are concerned.
Yes, the only ones happy for a default would be the reporters mainly, reveling in the Hyflux debacle right now to fill those pages with “newsworthy” news, “tabloid” style as it continues to drag with this week’s smoke-and-mirrors stunt and the sudden emergence of a new white knight at the 11th hour.
As for the frantic friend who had called asking for an opinion on his NOL bond (price fell off a cliff), our unsympathetic reply, “Told you to sell them, no, when you were up 10% last year?”
And the sentiments did not improve much this week after Bloomberg published another sensational new Singapore default watchlist which had to include that NOL bond of his, along with the other CWT that is maturing next year, Lippo Malls, Oxley and Vibrant Group.
We suspect the reporter must have sought inspiration from a similar source and yet we wonder why First REIT and Pacific International Lines were not brought up.
It is scarce comfort knowing that Singapore’s “zombies” are nearly flushed out of bond markets, with just Hyflux left although we cannot be sure if fraud continues to pop up, like the problem SGX has with this Best World for misrepresenting their Chinese assets, this week.
On the default count, and including the exchanged bonds, it has been over SGD 4 bio, thanks to Hyflux for ratcheting the number up by SGD1.35 billion although the perpetuals are not in default status yet. Here is a little tombstone for the fallen names since 2015.
Singapore's US$200 billion state investor is gearing up for more deals in the U.S. Temasek's Joint Head of North America
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/vide...tate-investor-seeking-more-u-s-holdings-video
SGD$400 million to help Hyflux is less than 0.15% of the USD200 billion coffer.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/vide...tate-investor-seeking-more-u-s-holdings-video
SGD$400 million to help Hyflux is less than 0.15% of the USD200 billion coffer.
After 10 months , finally it is all over !
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/co...for-payment-of-s509m-vp-for-operations-leaves
Lim Tean to assist Hyflux retail investors in seeking legal recourse to protect investments https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/20...eeking-legal-recourse-to-protect-investments/
Founder of People’s Voice Party and lawyer Lim Tean has expressed his willingness to assist a group of retail investors wishing to seek legal recourse against Hyflux’s potential winding up as the clock ticks yet again before the extension of a court-sanctioned debt moratorium expires at the end of this month. In a Facebook post on Tue (30 Apr), Mr Lim revealed that around 300 of such investors have sought his advice “on how their investments in the beleaguered company can be protected” over the past several weeks.
Other Hyflux retail investors who are interested in seeking legal advice from Mr Lim may contact him at [email protected].
Netizens encouraged Mr Lim’s move to protect Hyflux’s retail investors’ interests in the debt-ridden water treatment firm, with a few suggesting that a class action lawsuit should be taken up against Hyflux:
One commenter in particular opined that not only do Hyflux and its retail investors need to bear the responsibility for any repercussions as a result of failed investments, but government statutory bodies such as the Energy Market Authority and the Public Utilities Board ought to take up some of the brunt of Hyflux’s dire predicament:
Founder of People’s Voice Party and lawyer Lim Tean has expressed his willingness to assist a group of retail investors wishing to seek legal recourse against Hyflux’s potential winding up as the clock ticks yet again before the extension of a court-sanctioned debt moratorium expires at the end of this month. In a Facebook post on Tue (30 Apr), Mr Lim revealed that around 300 of such investors have sought his advice “on how their investments in the beleaguered company can be protected” over the past several weeks.
Other Hyflux retail investors who are interested in seeking legal advice from Mr Lim may contact him at [email protected].
Netizens encouraged Mr Lim’s move to protect Hyflux’s retail investors’ interests in the debt-ridden water treatment firm, with a few suggesting that a class action lawsuit should be taken up against Hyflux:
One commenter in particular opined that not only do Hyflux and its retail investors need to bear the responsibility for any repercussions as a result of failed investments, but government statutory bodies such as the Energy Market Authority and the Public Utilities Board ought to take up some of the brunt of Hyflux’s dire predicament:
Hyflux investors deserve it. When Lim Tean offered to help them, their chat group was more eager to dis-associate themselves with opposition members than pointing fingers at the culprits in government. These whimpy people deserves the shit they are in.
WATER treatment company Hyflux could get an emergency injection of S$400 million from Emirati utilities group Utico FZC, it said in a bourse announcement late on Friday night.
Mainboard-listed Hyflux has named Utico as its mystery white knight candidate, a week after floating a non-binding letter of intent in a bid to stay its creditors.
Utico plans to invest to keep the debt-hit Hyflux's key entities "intact and operational", with the funds to go towards equity and working capital purposes "and possible urgent interim funding", said Hyflux.
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/co...-could-get-s400m-from-uae-utility-group-utico
Mainboard-listed Hyflux has named Utico as its mystery white knight candidate, a week after floating a non-binding letter of intent in a bid to stay its creditors.
Utico plans to invest to keep the debt-hit Hyflux's key entities "intact and operational", with the funds to go towards equity and working capital purposes "and possible urgent interim funding", said Hyflux.
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/co...-could-get-s400m-from-uae-utility-group-utico
It is likely that those who get to vote in next restructuring are the shareholders. Olivia Lum control 1/3 of Hyflux and many ordinary shareholders will not turn up to vote. She can then transfer good assets out of old hyflux.
The money from middle east is just a kind of bridging loan. Eg. you buy a new house but haven't sell your existing so you need a bridging loan to transfer assets. It can be just money to be paid for releasing existing loans under old hyflux to refinance good assets under new hyflux, while perpetual bondholders and preference shareholders are stuck with an empty shell.
Then all hell will break lose when old hyflux get overwhelmed by restructuring costs, contingency claims and debts and still end up with nothing when the scammers in the Board of Directors pop their champagnes to celebrate a great restructuring done.
When a country's policymakers and regulators are not doing their jobs, this country is going to the dogs. When police don't catch wrongdoers, this country has no 纲维 to speak off.
Just a country of bandits and bastard politicians.
那些在下次重组中投票的人很可能只是普通股股东。Olivia Lum控制了Hyflux的1/3和许多小股东不会投票。然后，她可以从旧的hyflux转移出好资产。
来自中东的钱只是一种过渡性贷款。例如。你买了一套新房但没有卖掉现有的房子，所以你需要一笔过渡性贷款来转移资产，并为新的hyflux下的优质资产再融资，而永久债券持有人和优先股股东则剩下空壳。
当旧的hyflux因重组成本，应急财务索赔和其他债务而不堪重负时，我们将一无所有，这是早晚的事。董事会的诈骗者就可以庆祝这举世瞩目的重组，开香槟庆祝，逍遥法外。
当一个国家的政策制定者和监管机构没有做好自己的工作时，这个国家就腐败。当警方迟迟不肯抓违法者时，这个国家没有任何可以纲维可循。
剩下的，只是一个强盗和混蛋政治家的国家。
The money from middle east is just a kind of bridging loan. Eg. you buy a new house but haven't sell your existing so you need a bridging loan to transfer assets. It can be just money to be paid for releasing existing loans under old hyflux to refinance good assets under new hyflux, while perpetual bondholders and preference shareholders are stuck with an empty shell.
Then all hell will break lose when old hyflux get overwhelmed by restructuring costs, contingency claims and debts and still end up with nothing when the scammers in the Board of Directors pop their champagnes to celebrate a great restructuring done.
When a country's policymakers and regulators are not doing their jobs, this country is going to the dogs. When police don't catch wrongdoers, this country has no 纲维 to speak off.
Just a country of bandits and bastard politicians.
那些在下次重组中投票的人很可能只是普通股股东。Olivia Lum控制了Hyflux的1/3和许多小股东不会投票。然后，她可以从旧的hyflux转移出好资产。
来自中东的钱只是一种过渡性贷款。例如。你买了一套新房但没有卖掉现有的房子，所以你需要一笔过渡性贷款来转移资产，并为新的hyflux下的优质资产再融资，而永久债券持有人和优先股股东则剩下空壳。
当旧的hyflux因重组成本，应急财务索赔和其他债务而不堪重负时，我们将一无所有，这是早晚的事。董事会的诈骗者就可以庆祝这举世瞩目的重组，开香槟庆祝，逍遥法外。
当一个国家的政策制定者和监管机构没有做好自己的工作时，这个国家就腐败。当警方迟迟不肯抓违法者时，这个国家没有任何可以纲维可循。
剩下的，只是一个强盗和混蛋政治家的国家。
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In the past 1-2 months, I got the chance to rub shoulders with many personal banking RMs from local banks, Maybank and SCB. Everyone heard countless tales of Hyflux losses from their clients. The sentiment is very bitter and a lady RM told me this week that government will help soon or else there will be a regime change in Singapore.
I hope it is true but I don't understand how is government going to come into the picture now?
Yes !
Regime Change is coming ..... to Aljunied GRC !
BG George Yeo is back to fix AHTC !
http://theindependent.sg/opposition...the-key-for-the-pap-to-win-back-aljunied-grc/
Regime Change is coming ..... to Aljunied GRC !
BG George Yeo is back to fix AHTC !
http://theindependent.sg/opposition...the-key-for-the-pap-to-win-back-aljunied-grc/
No sir, I think you are mistaken. Medium Term Notesholders are not better off in the new deal. Olivia outsmarted you.
This is my take on the debt seniority in the latest Utico plans - there are five leagues.
Premier League - Secured Bankers
Secured Bankers can derail Utico's Plans to transfer and refinance healthy assets under New Hyflux. This group has the biggest say.
Division 1 - Ordinary Shareholders
As the plan involves substantial asset sale (transfer) to New Hyflux, they can vote on the scheme. However, Olivia Lum will likely single-handedly dominate this sector because many ordinary shareholders will not bother by now.
Division 2 - Unsecured Bankers & Medium Term Noteholders
The MTN holders likely brought Olivia Lum to her knees and cancelled the last voting. Now, her new plans are now geared towards shutting up this group. It is technically possible to go ahead without the blessings of this group. This is why the Unsecured Bankers and MTM holders are more eager to file Hyflux for Judicial Management (JM) which gives them more say and payout, than the Uticol Proposal.
Division 3 - Legal Liabilities and Contingency Claims
Many of these claims are not reasonable but PUB proved that it is possible for local and overseas government to raid and confiscate projects from Hyflux. Going forward, this group will eventually sue the Old Hyflux to take control Old Hyflux's stake in the New Hyflux.
Conference Teams- Preference Shareholders and Perpetual Bondholders (PnPs)
Under the proposed plans, PnPs will be in Old Hyflux which will still go bust from after restructuring. Depending on the technicalities, voting from this class is not very essential. PnPs will be completely out of the picture and silenced.
Another US$57.7m claim from BNP Paribus for Algeria project
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/co...im-by-bnp-paribas-for-magtaa-performance-bond
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/co...im-by-bnp-paribas-for-magtaa-performance-bond
Struggling water treatment firm Hyflux is hoping to nail down a $400 million deal with Utico FZC in a bid to fend off a move by seven banks to have the company placed under judicial management.
The Straits Times understands that about $300 million may be used to pay the bank lenders, medium-term noteholders and contingent liabilities, with $100 million earmarked as working capital.
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/hyflux-races-to-secure-400m-deal-with-uaes-utico
Nothing for PnPs
The Straits Times understands that about $300 million may be used to pay the bank lenders, medium-term noteholders and contingent liabilities, with $100 million earmarked as working capital.
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/hyflux-races-to-secure-400m-deal-with-uaes-utico
Nothing for PnPs
End of the road soon... No need to save.
My family lost a lot of savings in Hyflux. Everyday is like a wandering soul, praying for this crisis to be over but things just get worse with the mounting lawsuits and it all started because of PUB stopping the Tuaspring sales to china investor, then everyone sues Hyflux for bankrupt. Wish it's just a dream.
I hate PAP so much.
Sorry to hear that bro. Money can be made back. I have lost my fair share of monies in investment, gambling and business. Most important is pick up and look forward. Easier said than done though, but move on. At times, I do ask myself why I am so stupid, feels depressed and start wondering what the fuck why some people can always be at the right place and at the right time and why I never get this chance. I guess it's life. Soldier on my friend. It's only money. Life, fraternity, love and happiness is bigger than money. Look no further. The Lee and HC clan has lots of money being at right place and at the right time. So what? Are they happy? Maybe. But I doubt when you see the siblings fight out in public. They deserve what their father and mother has sowed. And they aren't helping by having so much greed for power.
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