PROOF that religion is bullshit

[scroobal]

Very well articulated.

First, role models live by their example, not by preaching dogma. Second, true spirituality permeates all facets of life, not just pertaining to the worship of a deity based on words from dusty millennia-old manuscripts and ossified centuries-old rituals.

A strong and compassionate politician guiding his nation to greatness is a spiritual role model. As is a teacher putting her soul into nurturing generations of educated and moral youth. As is the padi farmer breaking his back every day to put food on his – and your – table. As is a journalist putting his life on the line bringing you news and pictures from the world's war zones.

I can go on, but you get my drift.

 

[rurouni]

First, role models live by their example, not by preaching dogma. Second, true spirituality permeates all facets of life, not just pertaining to the worship of a deity based on words from dusty millennia-old manuscripts and ossified centuries-old rituals.

I agree.


But just as I don't agree entirely with Wunderfool, who seems to be a false Christian, in my opinion; neither do I agree entirely with you when you say:

A strong and compassionate politician guiding his nation to greatness is a spiritual role model.

Please define "greatness".

As is a teacher putting her soul into nurturing generations of educated and moral youth.

In order to be slaves of the government?

 

[Wunderfool]

Hence, should the followers of Jesus Christ follow His example of refusing to be a slave of any earthly government, in order to arrive at His Heavenly Kingdom?
Or follow the example of, say, the PAP and LHL to arrive at earthly prosperity?

Jesus says " Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and render to God the things that are God's"

 

[Narong Wongwan]

They shld hve killed each other on the expressway.

Yes well said.
Religious conman vs crasslooter
Whoever lose we win

 

[yellowarse]

Please define "greatness".

Look up the dictionary.

In order to be slaves of the government?

Never implied that in my statement, so you're putting words in my mouth. A morally upright youth will not​ tolerate slavery. A non sequitur.

 

[rurouni]

Jesus says " Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and render to God the things that are God's"

And what does that mean?

From the true Christian point of view, it means that one should serve and love:
kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-22-37
("...the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind")

But what are the "things that are Caesar's"?
The simple answer is the money/currency that was/is created by the government.

And Jesus is implying not just paying whatever percentage of one's income as tax to the government, but to pay 100% of one's income to the government as tax, whether the government demands it or not.
Which means that Jesus wants His followers to refuse to earn money by working as direct/indirect slaves of the government.
(And that obviously does not mean spending one's time and energy working as a direct/indirect slave of the government for free.)
He wants His followers to simply spend their time and energy working for God, primarily through prayer and meditation and refraining from sin, unless He has granted miracle-working powers to them and commissioned them to literally confront people in real life and preach publicly.

Look up the dictionary.

haha, we're talking about religious issues, and you ask me to look up a dictionary?

Never implied that in my statement, so you're putting words in my mouth. A morally upright youth will not​ tolerate slavery. A non sequitur.

Will such a "morally upright youth" obey the government's order to kill any group of foreigners, who are deemed by the government to be "enemies", during a war?
What if the government who governs this "morally upright youth" is also in the wrong?

 

[Wunderfool]

And what does that mean?

From the true Christian point of view, it means that one should serve and love:
kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-22-37
("...the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind")

But what are the "things that are Caesar's"?
The simple answer is the money/currency that was/is created by the government.

And Jesus is implying not just paying whatever percentage of one's income as tax to the government, but to pay 100% of one's income to the government as tax, whether the government demands it or not.
Which means that Jesus wants His followers to refuse to earn money by working as direct/indirect slaves of the government.
(And that obviously does not mean spending one's time and energy working as a direct/indirect slave of the government for free.)
He wants His followers to simply spend their time and energy working for God, primarily through prayer and meditation and refraining from sin, unless He has granted miracle-working powers to them and commissioned them to literally confront people in real life and preach publicly.



haha, we're talking about religious issues, and you ask me to look up a dictionary?



Will such a "morally upright youth" obey the government's order to kill any group of foreigners, who are deemed by the government to be "enemies", during a war?
What if the government who governs this "morally upright youth" is also in the wrong?

Are you using the MOV translation bible for the interpretation of bible verses?:p

 

[Asterix]

Either way, it seems that religion was a tool for Bonaparte, and he used it wisely, allowing the peoples of his conquered land to continue practicing whatever faith was inherent in their culture. In this way, Bonaparte took a page from the Roman empire-building playbook. He once said:

It is by making myself Catholic that I brought peace to Brittany and Vendée. It is by making myself Italian that I won minds in Italy. It is by making myself a Moslem that I established myself in Egypt. If I governed a nation of Jews, I should reestablish the Temple of Solomon.

It was tolerance, but tolerance with a power-centered agenda.

Nevertheless, we are best to call Napoleon a Catholic. He did receive a Catholic education, was French, and was given his last rites on his deathbed.

http://hollowverse.com/napoleon-bonaparte/

[video=youtube;ESi9DlOtHJ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESi9DlOtHJ4[/video]

 

[rurouni]

Are you using the MOV translation bible for the interpretation of bible verses?:p

sorry, I'm afraid I've never heard of any "MOV translation bible".

My interpretation is based on common sense (which might even mean "sixth sense" in a certain sense), as well as reading about the examples of certain Christian hermits who lived and died during the first millennium after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I'm trying to put those ancient examples into practice in my own life, and if anyone (including parents, siblings, government) physically prevents me from doing so, he/she/they will have to literally give me sufficient basic necessities for my daily sustenance until I die a natural death (whether in prison or outside prison), unless he/she/they dare to sentence me to death (basically, murdering me), which would immediately make me a Christian martyr at the moment of my death and cause me to enter Heaven, also immediately.

That does not mean that the murderer murdering me would be doing a good deed.
Murdering for whatever reason (including so-called "self-defence") is still a sin, but if such a sin is committed against such an innocent person, that innocent person would become a martyr and enter Heaven immediately, even though his/her murderer is still in the wrong (and will end up in Hell after death if he/she fails to repent) and should not have murdered in the first place.
This is one of the ironies of true Christian philosophy/morality.

 

[Wunderfool]

sorry, I'm afraid I've never heard of any "MOV translation bible".

My interpretation is based on common sense (which might even mean "sixth sense" in a certain sense), as well as reading about the examples of certain Christian hermits who lived and died during the first millennium after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I'm trying to put those ancient examples into practice in my own life, and if anyone (including parents, siblings, government) physically prevents me from doing so, he/she/they will have to literally give me sufficient basic necessities for my daily sustenance until I die a natural death (whether in prison or outside prison), unless he/she/they dare to sentence me to death (basically, murdering me), which would immediately make me a Christian martyr at the moment of my death and cause me to enter Heaven, also immediately.

That does not mean that the murderer murdering me would be doing a good deed.
Murdering for whatever reason (including so-called "self-defence") is still a sin, but if such a sin is committed against such an innocent person, that innocent person would become a martyr and enter Heaven immediately, even though his/her murderer is still in the wrong (and will end up in Hell after death if he/she fails to repent) and should not have murdered in the first place.
This is one of the ironies of true Christian philosophy/morality.

MOV means My Own Version .

 

[yellowarse]

haha, we're talking about religious issues, and you ask me to look up a dictionary?

What talking you? I was talking about a politician leading his nation to 'greatness', and saying that's spirituality. Not talking about religion. There's a world of difference between religiosity and spirituality. A religious person may not necessarily be spiritual, and a spiritual person may not be religious.

Will such a "morally upright youth" obey the government's order to kill any group of foreigners, who are deemed by the government to be "enemies", during a war?
What if the government who governs this "morally upright youth" is also in the wrong?

Non sequitur again. What has 'morally upright youth' to do with 'government'? You could just as well have asked me: will such a 'morally upright youth' take up skateboarding?

A person's morality is independent of the government ruling his nation.

 

[rurouni]

MOV means My Own Version .

I see, thanks.

u would think these religious people would be spiritual and at peace,instead many of them seems to be filled with vengence and hatred and anger.....nothing smacks of hypocrisy than religious people,they seems to be unable to percieve their own biasness and prejudice and hatred for people that do not conform to their ideals.

Well said. Good rule of thumb: the more fervent and judgmental you are, the more hypocritical.

I would agree if both of you are referring to the vast majority of religious people (which includes false Christians, who also happen to constitute the vast majority of Christians).

What talking you? I was talking about a politician leading his nation to 'greatness', and saying that's spirituality. Not talking about religion. There's a world of difference between religiosity and spirituality. A religious person may not necessarily be spiritual, and a spiritual person may not be religious.

And I'm still waiting for you to define "greatness".
Military superiority and/or material prosperity and/or high financial net worth?

Also, you said "compassionate politician" in your initial post, so I would like to know what kind of "greatness" such a politician can lead his nation to.

By the way, no matter how different (but certainly not a "world of difference") religion and spirituality are from each other, they are still closely connected.

Furthermore, politics always goes hand in hand with hypocrisy and military power.
(in fact, military power is one of the major causes of their hypocrisy)
And that is why Jesus Christ was not a politician, because he refused to be a hypocrite and a murderer (even for the sake of "self-defence").

A person's morality is independent of the government ruling his nation.

If you replace "is" with "should be", I would agree with you.
Otherwise, as far as most Sinkies are concerned, their morality is closely connected to, or even caused by, the brainwashing by the PAP government, which is certainly not a government run by holy saints, right?

 

[Wunderfool]

Pastors are supposed to be role models of the faith they profess. However, we must not put them on a pedestal that regards them as the holiest of saints. After all , they are but sinners saved by grace. Let God be true and every man a liar ( Rom 3:4 )

It is sad when not a few church leaders fell from grace and cause the public to cast stones on the faith of which they profess. It is inevitable that the Christian faith will be challenged. If the church leaders are not showing themselves to be the "salt and light of the world", it begs the question - is the religion real? Does it change lives? Or is it just bullshit?

The fact of the matter is man is a fallen creature. Like a branch, he is incapable of living up to the faith on his own. He will stumble and fall; be he a pastor or not. He can only live according to the faith when he is abiding in the vine, the source of the faith.

 

[Cremo]

Pastor jailed two weeks for road rage

Cheo was fierce and aggressive’ towards the victim, and repeatedly goaded him to throw the first punch, the judge said.

Photo: The Straits Times

Elena Chong
Saturday, Jul 2, 2016

A church pastor who challenged a businessman to a fight, then slammed a van door on him in a road rage incident, was sentenced to two weeks' jail on Thursday.

Daniel Cheo Guan Beng, 46, a pastor with Impact Life Church, was ordered to pay compensation of medical fees totalling $48.75 to his 60-year-old victim Tay Kim Beng.

After a six-day trial, he was found guilty of causing hurt to Mr Tay on the Pan-Island Expressway (PIE) near Paya Lebar flyover on Jan 13 last year.

Mr Tay had testified that Cheo, who was driving a black Alfa Romeo, had signalled for him to stop his Renault Kangoo.

After they had pulled over, Cheo walked aggressively towards him, pointed his finger at his nose, and called him derogatory names like "chao ah kua" and "chao ah beng".

Cheo then challenged Mr Tay to hit him.

When Mr Tay tried to get back in the driver's seat, Cheo closed the door on him, then grabbed his hand and pulled him out.

Cheo again challenged him to a fight.

Mr Tay had said that he had earlier been driving behind Cheo, who was slowing down and accelerating intermittently.

When he saw the car's front seat passenger taking photographs of his van, he also told his employee to do the same.

In his 39-page judgment, District Judge Shawn Ho said both parties were like "chalk and cheese" - the pastor being "polished and glib" and Mr Tay "sincere, straightforward and artless".

He accepted Mr Tay's account and said his testimony was "credible and cogent". He rejected Cheo's defence that the victim had falsely implicated him.

The judge said Cheo was "fierce and aggressive'' towards the victim, and repeatedly goaded him to throw the first punch.

Mr Tay had told Cheo that he was already 60 years old, a senior citizen, and that "fight is not allowed in Singapore".

The judge said: "Frustrated that the victim did not rise to the bait and was in fact entering his van to leave the scene, the bellicose accused slammed the van door against the victim, and then directed the victim to the back of the van.''

He found that the prosecution had proven its case against Cheo beyond reasonable doubt.

Seeking a sentence of two to three weeks' jail, Deputy Public Prosecutor Tan Ee Kuan said it was well established in road rage cases that the sentencing principle of general deterrence applies.

"There is a pressing need to deter hooliganism on the road," he said.

He argued that Cheo lacked remorse as he had not only accused the victim of making up the injury, but also lied to the doctor, the police and the court.

Cheo's lawyer Adrian Wee urged the court to impose a high fine. He said the injuries caused, if at all, were "extremely minor", and there was no clinical sign of any injury save for the victim reporting pain.

He said the defence's case had always been that Cheo closed the door, but he did not intend to hurt Mr Tay.

Mr Wee said Cheo's conviction would "effectively end his present career", adding: "That is a price that he will have to pay."

About 20 supporters turned up in court to support Cheo for the verdict on Thursday.

Cheo, who could have been jailed for up to two years and/or fined up to $5,000, was allowed to defer sentence until July 14 to attend to his affairs and those of the church.

He is out on $15,000 bail and his passport has been impounded.

[email protected]

 

[halsey02]

"Back in his office in Tampines, Mr Tay called a grassroots leader, a lawyer, who advised him to make a police report."

Grass loot leader..."member"....wah!...like pai gia call the section chief of his gang....ha ha ha....Mr. Tay got connection...better remember his company name at Tampines....be careful when dealing with him, or he will call his 'gang member'..."graslooter" who is a LAWYER..

anyway his "member" god is bigger than the pastors' God..

 

[halsey02]

It is sad when not a few church leaders fell from grace and cause the public to cast stones on the faith of which they profess. It is inevitable that the Christian faith will be challenged. If the church leaders are not showing themselves to be the "salt and light of the world", it begs the question - is the religion real? Does it change lives? Or is it just bullshit?

The fact of the matter is man is a fallen creature. Like a branch, he is incapable of living up to the faith on his own. He will stumble and fall; be he a pastor or not. He can only live according to the faith when he is abiding in the vine, the source of the faith.

14:“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15:nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16:“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 5: 14-16 (NASB)

It is sad that, these 'light' of the world, are leading the flocks down a slippery slope.....there are too many pastors out there, that is doing this....we have this "light of the world"......that is still 'shining' out to the believers & leading them to their doom....case in point, Kong Kee Fatt Choy & his "SUN"...

 

[syed putra]

u would think these religious people would be spiritual and at peace,instead many of them seems to be filled with vengence and hatred and anger.....nothing smacks of hypocrisy than religious people,they seems to be unable to percieve their own biasness and prejudice and hatred for people that do not conform to their ideals.

Those who profess the Abrahamic faith are seldom docile.

 

[JohnTan]

I thought religion is one of the best things that ever happened to mankind. Religious society have higher birthrates and will flourish. In contrast, godless people tend to overthink, have fewer kids and eventually their numbers will shrink to a point where they will be outnumbered by the religious. Once they lose the demographic war, it's game over for them. Religion rocks!

 

[crazyMod]

"Back in his office in Tampines, Mr Tay called a grassroots leader, a lawyer, who advised him to make a police report."

Grass loot leader..."member"....wah!...like pai gia call the section chief of his gang....ha ha ha....Mr. Tay got connection...better remember his company name at Tampines....be careful when dealing with him, or he will call his 'gang member'..."graslooter" who is a LAWYER..

anyway his "member" god is bigger than the pastors' God..

Wah you talk like God supported the pastor rude behaviour to the glassrooter.

Based on the thread logic, Science is also bullshit. Because Science caused a lot of accidents and death too. People still believed in Science?

Why Science couldn't help Steven Hawkins to stand up? Is Science bias?

 

[Reddog]

One should not think poorly of pastors for they are potential millionaires. Besides, they are saved and have reserved places in heaven.