Professor Lim Chong Yah: Singapore’s income gap approaching dangerous levels

[Kinana]

There are no subsidies whatsoever in public housing. The govt aquires the land at negligible costs but factors in the current market cost of the lands upon which the flats are build in pricing the flats. The govt is making big chunks of money from their public housing projects. That is what is really real.

The houses can be sold for money by the owner. Its real.

 

[freedalas]

The houses can be sold for money by the owner. Its real.

Then where do they stay after selling their HDB flats? To buy another one costs the same if not more. Such assets appreciation are only paper profits, they can't be translated into real gains.

 

[eatshitndie]

There are no subsidies whatsoever in public housing. The govt aquires the land at negligible costs but factors in the current market cost of the lands upon which the flats are build in pricing the flats. The govt is making big chunks of money from their public housing projects. That is what is really real.

the sg gov is doing you a favor by "robbing" valuable tracts of land from original landowners like my forebears and building homes for peasants like you. if not for them, my forebears who would still own the land would push you to the outlying slums so you can defecate and eat from the same place. i should be the one who should be mad against the sg gov, but i'm not. i forgive what they did for the good of the majority.

 

[Kinana]

Then where do they stay after selling their HDB flats? To buy another one costs the same if not more. Such assets appreciation are only paper profits, they can't be translated into real gains.

Its the same all over the world. You sell a house, you buy another house. Just like Singapore. Just like countries with flat income distribution.
You don't follow the debate do you?

 

[Papsmearer]

Its the same all over the world. You sell a house, you buy another house. Just like Singapore. Just like countries with flat income distribution.
You don't follow the debate do you?

It shows what a retard u are. U CANNOT SELL SOMETHING YOU DO NOT OWN. Can u understand this simple concept? U are a tenant in your flat. U do not own it. U are renting it from the HDB. Read your agreement. INstead of paying rent monthly, the HDB asks u to prepay it 99 years in one lump sum. When u sell, u are not selling the physical flat (because its not yours), you are selling a piece of paper. The paper assigns the rights and benefits of using the flat to the person who bought the paper from you. In other words, u are assigning your right to live in the flat to someone else. U are a tenant who is subletting the flat to another person in perpetuity until your 99 year lease expires. That is why HDB has to approve all "sales" of flats.

 

[freedalas]

the sg gov is doing you a favor by "robbing" valuable tracts of land from original landowners like my forebears and building homes for peasants like you. if not for them, my forebears who would still own the land would push you to the outlying slums so you can defecate and eat from the same place. i should be the one who should be mad against the sg gov, but i'm not. i forgive what they did for the good of the majority.

When PAP first came into power, they did have the noble intention of solving the acute housing problem in S'pore by providing the people with low cost housing. In all fairness, the PAP did well to address this problem. It then moved on to provide better quality housing at an affordable price. Again, the PAP should be commended for this. There were also many other aspects of that the PAP ought to be praised in raising the standard of living of the people in its first 20 to 25 years as government.

Unfortunately, PAP turn greedy. Their focus became one of making money rather than the well-being of the people. The PAP lost its sense of social responsibility in which it must bear as a government. So flats were now being built to earn the government huge chunks of profits. The affordability factor was totally overlooked or sacrificed for super profits. In last 30 years, this is what had been happening. And the PAP got greedier by the day. Nothing satisfies LKY more than to see the continuous growth in the reserves and the GLCs churning mammoth profits year after year. By late 90s, the govt had completely lost its direction and had abandon what it stood for in its early years. Its greed was insatiable by then.

So for those who loves to defend the PAP, please take a look at current perspective of the situation, instead of always looking in the rear view mirror into the 60s and 70s when the PAP was still a govt that was responsible to its people.

 

[eatshitndie]

agree that the pap has turned greedy, but so are current hdb homeowners today. if there is a sucker willing to pay sgd800k for a pathetic phlat, can't really blame the owner-lessee for cashing in on it. heshe would be a fool if heshe's not greedy. if i'm in their situation, i would cash out and purchase homes in jb and tracts of land and single family homes in california. with 1 hdb flat fully paid for, you can buy 2 sizable homes in brentwood, near the bay area.

 

[Fook Seng]

The houses are real, the subsidies are real, the people are real and living in real houses and the GINI thingy ignored it?

You see how easy it is to counter this Lim CY guy? Professor or no professor, never believe in what anyone say w/o thinking??

The increase in prices of HDB flats is real. Even lessing the so-called "subsidies" the increase is still real. Once, about 30 years ago, you can own a freehold condo (not shoebox, larger than any HDB or executive flat) on a 10-year loan using just the CPF from one income. Today, you need to service a 30-year mortgage using two incomes, after the so-called "subsidies" just for a 4-room HDB flat. That is also very real.

By the way, get your facts right. The houses are real but there is no subsidy for houses. They don't need it. The rich bastards have enough income not to need "subsidies". That is what a high Gini index brings. Still no guilty conscience?

 

[Fook Seng]

The houses can be sold for money by the owner. Its real.

And sleep on the street? Singapore streets are so clean that everyone can sleep on it. Good theme for the next marketing ad.

 

[freedalas]

It shows what a retard u are. U CANNOT SELL SOMETHING YOU DO NOT OWN. Can u understand this simple concept? U are a tenant in your flat. U do not own it. U are renting it from the HDB. Read your agreement. INstead of paying rent monthly, the HDB asks u to prepay it 99 years in one lump sum. When u sell, u are not selling the physical flat (because its not yours), you are selling a piece of paper. The paper assigns the rights and benefits of using the flat to the person who bought the paper from you. In other words, u are assigning your right to live in the flat to someone else. U are a tenant who is subletting the flat to another person in perpetuity until your 99 year lease expires. That is why HDB has to approve all "sales" of flats.

Thanks, bro. Save me the trouble of replying to that retard. It's a pity that these PAP supporters are so lacking in knowledge and power of analysis that we can't a meaningful debate. But then again, if we look at how much the quality of the PAP candidates had deteroriated at the last GE, it's little wonder that its supporters are also suffering a decline in substance. But that's good news anyway since it can only mean more losses for the PAP at the next GE.

 

[Fook Seng]

Its the same all over the world. You sell a house, you buy another house. Just like Singapore. Just like countries with flat income distribution.
You don't follow the debate do you?

Elsewhere, you use less money to do it. The balance of your money you can enjoy life better. Here the balance of your time, you look for a supplementary job.

 

[Fook Seng]

When PAP first came into power, they did have the noble intention of solving the acute housing problem in S'pore by providing the people with low cost housing.

Unfortunately, PAP turn greedy. Their focus became one of making money rather than the well-being of the people. The PAP lost its sense of social responsibility in which it must bear as a government. So flats were now being built to earn the government huge chunks of profits. The affordability factor was totally overlooked or sacrificed for super profits. In last 30 years, this is what had been happening. And the PAP got greedier by the day. Nothing satisfies LKY more than to see the continuous growth in the reserves and the GLCs churning mammoth profits year after year. By late 90s, the govt had completely lost its direction and had abandon what it stood for in its early years. Its greed was insatiable by then.

Eatshit already left Singapore during the greedy period.

 

[Fook Seng]

agree that the pap has turned greedy, but so are current hdb homeowners today. if there is a sucker willing to pay sgd800k for a pathetic phlat, can't really blame the owner-lessee for cashing in on it. heshe would be a fool if heshe's not greedy. if i'm in their situation, i would cash out and purchase homes in jb and tracts of land and single family homes in california. with 1 hdb flat fully paid for, you can buy 2 sizable homes in brentwood, near the bay area.

The suckers are those who continue to vote for this.

 

[eatshitndie]

The suckers are those who continue to vote for this.

can't fault the majority who happen to benefit from the greed. people vote mostly according to how their pockets are filled. same in america. same in europe. the oppo needs to understand this very basic democratic concept. otherwise, you're always a minority and fighting lost causes for losers.

 

[eatshitndie]

Eatshit already left Singapore during the greedy period.

if one doesn't know when and how to cash in, heshe's a fool.

 

[Kinana]

It shows what a retard u are. U CANNOT SELL SOMETHING YOU DO NOT OWN. Can u understand this simple concept? U are a tenant in your flat. U do not own it. U are renting it from the HDB. Read your agreement. INstead of paying rent monthly, the HDB asks u to prepay it 99 years in one lump sum. When u sell, u are not selling the physical flat (because its not yours), you are selling a piece of paper. The paper assigns the rights and benefits of using the flat to the person who bought the paper from you. In other words, u are assigning your right to live in the flat to someone else. U are a tenant who is subletting the flat to another person in perpetuity until your 99 year lease expires. That is why HDB has to approve all "sales" of flats.

You can sell your house and cash out if you choose to.

 

[The Philistine]

And sleep on the street? Singapore streets are so clean that everyone can sleep on it. Good theme for the next marketing ad.

You cannot sleep on the streets because the poodles will ka ciao you.

Prof LCY is missing the point. Raising the income of the poor to narrow income inequality is a good idea but the increase in income must be justified by skills upgrading in relevant areas. This excludes churning out useless WSQ certificates in retail or other low-skilled field. (You don't need a certificate to serve customers in shops.)

It is useless telling people to upgrade their skills when the market is saturated by foreigners taking jobs for which Sinkies upgrade themselves. If the numbers of foreigners taking these semi-skilled and skilled/educated (PMET) positions are reduced substantially, Sinkies will be able to fill these positions that command higher salaries. In addition, the fewer number of foreigners will mean that Sinkies will have a stronger bargaining position on salaries because employers now find it harder to take the easy way out.

I am not advocating we adopt a closed door policy. The door must be open but we must be selective of the people we let in. We should allow foreigners to fill the jobs Sinkies are unwilling to do (dangerous, demeaning, and dirty), or incapable of filling (specialized/niche). We can then have the benefit of having people "clear our rubbish" for us and at the same time, enjoy the opportunities to learn from true foreign talents and improve ourselves.

The culture of Sinkieland must also change. The business culture is toxic. Most local companies are pursuing cost leadership strategies with scant regard for quality. Managers' favourite and often only way of improving productivity is to ask their subordinates to work longer hours. If that fails, they hire some cheap labour to do it. They rarely think of improving the existing business processes and encouraging a culture of intrapreneurship, which can yield far better results. When you have people believing in bullshit like "cheaper, better, and faster", it is inevitable that bull-headed efforts take precedence over innovation. If Sinkie companies think that being cheap is everything, we will never move the economy up the value chain, where the good and well-paid jobs are. And to get to the top, we need companies to be innovative and create new products and services,*
which will open up new markets and create more quality jobs. With more quality jobs and improved access to these, the income gap will naturally narrow.*

 

[Kinana]

You cannot sleep on the streets because the poodles will ka ciao you.

Prof LCY is missing the point. Raising the income of the poor to narrow income inequality is a good idea but the increase in income must be justified by skills upgrading in relevant areas. This excludes churning out useless WSQ certificates in retail or other low-skilled field. (You don't need a certificate to serve customers in shops.)

It is useless telling people to upgrade their skills when the market is saturated by foreigners taking jobs for which Sinkies upgrade themselves. If the numbers of foreigners taking these semi-skilled and skilled/educated (PMET) positions are reduced substantially, Sinkies will be able to fill these positions that command higher salaries. In addition, the fewer number of foreigners will mean that Sinkies will have a stronger bargaining position on salaries because employers now find it harder to take the easy way out.

I am not advocating we adopt a closed door policy. The door must be open but we must be selective of the people we let in. We should allow foreigners to fill the jobs Sinkies are unwilling to do (dangerous, demeaning, and dirty), or incapable of filling (specialized/niche). We can then have the benefit of having people "clear our rubbish" for us and at the same time, enjoy the opportunities to learn from true foreign talents and improve ourselves.

The culture of Sinkieland must also change. The business culture is toxic. Most local companies are pursuing cost leadership strategies with scant regard for quality. Managers' favourite and often only way of improving productivity is to ask their subordinates to work longer hours. If that fails, they hire some cheap labour to do it. They rarely think of improving the existing business processes and encouraging a culture of intrapreneurship, which can yield far better results. When you have people believing in bullshit like "cheaper, better, and faster", it is inevitable that bull-headed efforts take precedence over innovation. If Sinkie companies think that being cheap is everything, we will never move the economy up the value chain, where the good and well-paid jobs are. And to get to the top, we need companies to be innovative and create new products and services,*
which will open up new markets and create more quality jobs. With more quality jobs and improved access to these, the income gap will naturally narrow.*

And cause severe inflation in the process followed by low investment and employment?
Your cure is worst than the symptom mister.

 

[Fook Seng]

And cause severe inflation in the process followed by low investment and employment?
Your cure is worst than the symptom mister.

Just a warning to you. You committed two major offences here. Don't worry. I am not rebutting your statements. Those arguments have been rebutted too many times and not worth repeating the rebuts. I am actually referring to your overly long quotes and your constant use of bold text in your comments. People have been known to be infracted because of these. Why is LeongSam so quiet? Is he on vacation, fishing for mermaids?

 

[Kinana]

You can't debate, now resorting to threat?

The arguments are repeated again and again, why can't I repeat the rebuttal?
If you increase wages for the lowest income across the board, inflation will automatically follow. Its plain logic that has never been countered.
If you can't reason and debate, please don't get involve.